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[SuperPac]

Even though I was disappointed overall by the presentation, there's one thing to consider. The App Store and the huge amount of potential that brings with it. No one's going to say "oh, it's just a big iPod Touch I'm not going to develop for it" unless they want to leave a pile of money on the table.

IMO, it's not about the lack of a camera, or Flash (really the only thing that would matter is Flash Video, but YouTube's covered and if more sites move to HTML5 it stops being an issue), or multitasking. Those are nitpicks that the hardcore has. The iPhone doesn't multitask and to be honest I've never been in a situation where I wished it did. What does matter are apps, and I'm positive we're going to see some great stuff for the iPad at/after launch.

 

[amstradcpc]

Why is the issue with flash ? Apple doesn´t want to pay royalties or what ?. Even with my N97 ( ARM at 412 Mhz ) I can see flash videos and animations while browsing.

 

[jett]

My Dad (who is 65 and doesn't know how to use a mouse) really liked the Apple promo video. I don't think he is going to buy it, but I wonder what other non-tech people are thinking of the product.

Whether it supports flash or has a USB slot, you gotta admit that the iPad looks slick in motion. It looks like someone that Jean Luc Picard would be using on TNG.

I imagine most non-techies would be amazed by that promo video.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

What's not to understand? No one is "supporting" this plugin but don't tell me this thing ever at surfing the web when I can't even watch videos on websites because it uses like almost every site, java. No one gives a shit whether it's harder to use or anything else, they just want to watch content on their device like other devices that they claim are inferior to surfing the web.

I don't know what this means: "...because it uses like almost every site, java."

Java is used on practically every site. Flash is not. And, once again, who is the leader in Flash content? Who serves more Flash on a daily basis than any other website? YouTube.

YouTube has started to phase out Flash. Why would you believe that other, much less popular websites will not follow?

 

[ThatObviousUser]

People falling on the two extremes in the Flash debate are getting it wrong.

Video = HTML 5 (preferrably, Ogg)

Cartoons/Animations (Newgrounds, etc.) = Flash

Games = Flash, sometimes, if it makes sense

Flash 10.1 will eliminate a lot of the performance issues, I believe. But both wanting and believing Flash to go away entirely are entirely wrong. No browser in the next 30 years is going to dare ship without Flash, and Adobe won't stand still, either. At best, we can hope HTML 5 moves the web away from using Flash as a container, not Flash content in general. Flash does what it does very well.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

So another question I guess this brings up is will the iWork programs run on iPhone or is it one of the first apps that will be iPad exclusive?

iPad exclusive from what I'm hearing. While the iPhone has the power to view iWork documents, I think creation is a bit much to expect. Perhaps the oft-rumored cloud-based iWork solution will fill in the gap on-the-go with the iPhone.

 

[D4Danger]

old?

http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplatform/2010/01/apples_ipad_--_a_broken_link.html

Adobe's take on the iPad

It looks like Apple is continuing to impose restrictions on their devices that limit both content publishers and consumers. Unlike many other ebook readers using the ePub file format, consumers will not be able to access ePub content with Apple's DRM technology on devices made by other manufacturers. And without Flash support, iPad users will not be able to access the full range of web content, including over 70% of games and 75% of video on the web.

If I want to use the iPad to connect to Disney, Hulu, Miniclip, Farmville, ESPN, Kongregate, or JibJab -- not to mention the millions of other sites on the web -- I'll be out of luck.

Adobe and more than 50 of our partners in the Open Screen Project are working to enable developers and content publishers to deliver to any device, so that consumers have open access to their favorite interactive media, content, and applications across platform, regardless of the device that people choose to use.

 

[SnakeXs]

Why is the issue with flash ? Apple doesn´t want to pay royalties or what ?. Even with my N97 ( ARM at 412 Mhz ) I can see flash videos and animations while browsing.

No, quite the opposite. Apple hasn't let Adobe work on/release the plugin for iPhone.

The issues, depending on where you stand on the whole thing, are control of content (games, videos, circumventing the App/iTunes stores), and control of their software platform. I've repeated the issue far too many times to do so again, but Apple and Adobe don't see eye to eye.

The "champions" of no Flash like myself aren't touting lack of Flash as a feature so much as being glad to see another opposition to it. The more opposition, the faster HTML5 is embraced, which does everything Flash does, effectively, and more, and wildly better.

old?

http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplatform/2010/01/apples_ipad_--_a_broken_link.html

Adobe's take on the iPad

Cry moar Adobe. Watch your empire fall and be unabe to do anything about it.

 

[mrklaw]

Yeah, but as I said. Most of this people will probably buy a EEE for cheaper (and get a full OS), or they wouldn't care enough about the extra stuff and stick to their iPhones.
But I don't think this is comparable to the Wii.

why is 'get a full OS' a benefit? If it was a great OS, then fine. But I find XP a little cramped on a 10" 1024x600 screen, so its already compromised IMO. I'd prefer something designed around that screen size.

You could argue that the iPad is designed around a smaller screen size and scaled up, but lets see how the larger, custom made apps work in real life.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Java is used on practically every site.

No, it's not. You're probably confusing it with Javascript. Completely different. One is plugin-based, the other is interpreted (or compiled sometimes) right in the browser.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

No browser in the next 30 years is going to dare ship without Flash

Every browser ever has shipped without Flash.

Flash is a plugin. Just like Google Earth. It is not the web. It's become so ubiquitous that people assume it's standard, but it's a third-party plugin with no ties to the Internet at all other than its ability to be embedded into an HTML file.

Also, the games and animations you're discussing can be achieved using CSS3, JavaScript, and the HTML 5 canvas element.

 

[Flek]

Cry moar Adobe. Watch your empire fall and be unabe to do anything about it.

yes please. Flash needs to die :O

 

[Starchasing]

i liked rant about multiasking and flash and all

http://www.youtube.com/user/prhone#p/u/0/aPGjS838aDg

 

[Futureman]

Off-topic, but I'm sure people in here know.

Do people still do the Developer program deal w/ Apple where you get 20% off a hardware purchase?

I did that back in the day and Apple never really confirmed I was a developer or anything. Friend is interested in doing this. Anyone know?

 

[Massa]

why is 'get a full OS' a benefit? If it was a great OS, then fine. But I find XP a little cramped on a 10" 1024x600 screen, so its already compromised IMO. I'd prefer something designed around that screen size.

You could argue that the iPad is designed around a smaller screen size and scaled up, but lets see how the larger, custom made apps work in real life.

Multitasking and an open platform is what you'd get with a "full OS".

 

[ThatObviousUser]

The more opposition, the faster HTML5 is embraced, which does everything Flash does, effectively, and more, and wildly better.

You really have no clue whatsoever as to what you're speaking of.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

why is 'get a full OS' a benefit? If it was a great OS, then fine. But I find XP a little cramped on a 10" 1024x600 screen, so its already compromised IMO. I'd prefer something designed around that screen size.

You could argue that the iPad is designed around a smaller screen size and scaled up, but lets see how the larger, custom made apps work in real life.

I think XP has seen the end of it's days for the most part. Win 7 is a different animal.

 

[m0dus]

So maybe next time don't make assumptions that some who do see a niche for this in their tech arsenal are just "Cult of Mac" victims, such generalisations are stupid, and just lead to arguments that are highly un-necessary.



Good to know, it's a market that has wide appeal.

Out of interest can you link any that meet my earlier requirements?:

8-10 hour battery life, lightweight (less than 2lbs), instant-on, handle near HD video? 811n & 3G.

I'd be more interested in seeing the devices this should be competing with, rather than seeing endless arguments over ones that frankly, despite Steve Jobs insistence, it won't compete with. (Netbooks etc.).

Of course as I said before, it's hard to compare with just specs alone, the App Store means that this device will see a growing collection of apps tailored towards it, can the same be said for it's competition in the same way?

Here are the devices I'm waiting on, before I take the 'ipad plunge':

HP slate--as I mentioned earlier, same form factor, runs FULL windows 7, multitouch, and has HP's touchsmart in tow:

Viewsonic's making one as well. Runs android, sports a Tegra02 processor, 4gb of flash memory, around $400

MSI 10 incher, running android. launching around $500. Tegra powered.

The BIG one for me: Notion Ink is making something called smartpad, 8hrs of video playback or 16 hours of webbrowsing, android UI, wifi/bluetooth/edge/3g, USB and HDMI outputs. Not to mention, hey, a camera!:

 

[Battersea Power Station]

No, it's not. You're probably confusing it with Javascript. Completely different. One is plugin-based, the other is interpreted (or compiled sometimes) right in the browser.

Sorry -- mistyped.

People falling on the two extremes in the Flash debate are getting it wrong.

Video = HTML 5 (preferrably, Ogg)

Cartoons/Animations (Newgrounds, etc.) = Flash

Games = Flash, sometimes, if it makes sense

Flash 10.1 will eliminate a lot of the performance issues, I believe. But both wanting and believing Flash to go away entirely are entirely wrong. No browser in the next 30 years is going to dare ship without Flash, and Adobe won't stand still, either. At best, we can hope HTML 5 moves the web away from using Flash as a container, not Flash content in general. Flash does what it does very well.

This is wrong, however. Flash is not just a container. And it doesn't do things very well.

Here are things done well:

http://www.benjoffe.com/code/games/torus/
http://wademcgillis.com/html5games/Wolfenstein3D/

 

[SnakeXs]

You really have no clue whatsoever as to what you're speaking of.

School me then. What's Flash's ace in the sleeve? What makes Flash irreplaceable. Outside of it being commonplace, something that fades every day, I see no reason for it to stick around.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Every browser ever has shipped without Flash.

Eh? I'm pretty sure Flash isn't downloaded after you install the browser. It (the plugin) is included in the installation file. And that's not going to change anytime soon.

Also, the games and animations you're discussing can be achieved using CSS3, JavaScript, and the HTML 5 canvas element.

The problem with doing that is Adobe has the complete end-to-end distribution for Flash content covered, from creation to deployment to consumption. There aren't any graphical HTML 5/CSS/JS editors that can create content like Flash can, and Flash has a reach that HTML 5 doesn't right now.

 

[Starchasing]

Multitasking and an open platform is what you'd get with a "full OS".

i understand open platform

but

name 3 uses of multitasking please

 

[D4Danger]

Here are the devices I'm waiting on, before I take the 'ipad plunge':

I like the fact the HP Slate runs a full version of Windows 7 but I still think it's a bit boring. I really needs some software that shows off what it can do.

Maybe there's a market there for someone to come in and bridge the gap between the hardware manufactures and Microsoft by making a touch suite or something.

 

[Fuzz Rez]

Here are the devices I'm waiting on, before I take the 'ipad plunge':

HP slate--as I mentioned earlier, same form factor, runs FULL windows 7, multitouch, and has HP's touchsmart in tow:

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/01-06-10slate2.jpg[IMG][IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/26jan10uowbrgsdf.jpg[IMG]

Viewsonic's making one as well. Runs android, sports a Tegra02 processor, 4gb of flash memory, around $400

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/viewsonic-tablet-101-20100121.jpg[IMG]

MSI 10 incher, running android. launching around $500. Tegra powered.

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2010/01/msi-tablet-05top.jpg[IMG]



The BIG one for me: Notion Ink is making something called smartpad,[B] 8hrs of video playback or 16 hours of webbrowsing,[/B] android UI, wifi/bluetooth/edge/3g, USB and HDMI outputs. Not to mention, hey, a camera!:

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/12/18dec99iuuwbg.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/12/18dec9ubrg.jpg[IMG]
[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/12/18dec9iusbdf.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Are these going to be out in 2010 ? Notion Ink sounds really good on a paper. Will keep my eye on it.

 

[Battersea Power Station]

Eh? I'm pretty sure Flash isn't downloaded after you install the browser. It (the plugin) is included in the installation file. And that's not going to change anytime soon.

Really, dude?

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

Here are the devices I'm waiting on, before I take the 'ipad plunge':

HP slate--as I mentioned earlier, same form factor, runs FULL windows 7, multitouch, and has HP's touchsmart in tow:

None will have the App Store like the iPad and will be the huge differentiator just like it is on the iPhone.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

i understand open platform

but

name 3 uses of multitasking please

I'm not a basher of the lack of multitasking, but:

1) Run and IM/Twitter client while typing/browsing.

i can't think of any others that would be worthwhile on the iPad. :lol

 

[Sriffat]

i understand open platform

but

name 3 uses of multitasking please

Music + Work

Music + Games

IM + Work

IM + Web Browsing + Work

Music + Web Browsing

Web Browsing + Work + GAF

GAF + Twitter + Facebook + Australian Open Final Streaming

 

[ThatObviousUser]

Really, dude?

How do you think the Flash plugin is handled? I've always thought it was browser-by-browser. Sorry if I was wrong.

 

[dude]

None will have the App Store like the iPad and will be the huge differentiator just like it is on the iPhone.

Yeah, who needs actual Windows software when you have the app store

Also, the Android app store is taking shape as well, I think most people will find what they're looking for on there.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Good to know, it's a market that has wide appeal.

Out of interest can you link any that meet my earlier requirements?:

8-10 hour battery life, lightweight (less than 2lbs), instant-on, handle near HD video? 811n & 3G.

I'd be more interested in seeing the devices this should be competing with, rather than seeing endless arguments over ones that frankly, despite Steve Jobs insistence, it won't compete with. (Netbooks etc.).

Of course as I said before, it's hard to compare with just specs alone, the App Store means that this device will see a growing collection of apps tailored towards it, can the same be said for it's competition in the same way?

If I think about the things that I do with a netbook (email, Facebook, browsing, chatting) it seems like the iPad probably makes all these things a lot easier. That's anecdotal, but I think a lot of people use their netbooks primarily for those functions or similar ones, so in that sense, Apple really has made something that destroys every other netbook out there in terms of ease of use and portability, so I think that Jobs made a fair comparison.

In the sense that I'd feel ok giving to my parents to use and not be afraid I'd have to fix it or explain it once a week, it doesn't really have any competition, not to mention that it looks to be the pinnacle of toilet computing.

Yeah, who needs actual Windows software when you have the app store

Exactly.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Actually, most sites have begun moving away from Flash. YouTube whent HTML5 last week, Vimeo works fine without Flash these days. Hulu is one of the only major holdouts still, and who knows what the future of that site is once NBC's sale is finalized. Netflix does use Silverlight of course, and they have mentioned that they have been researching an App for instant view for some time. Seems like a natural for the tablet. I'd love that!

I guess that leaves the porn sites huh?

Have news sites and the such moved away from flash from embedded? I haven't even bothered recently so I'm not sure. If they add silverlight for netflix then that'll be sweet. And no porn makes everyone

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yeah, who needs actual Windows software when you have the app store

How much Windows software is multi-touch and tailored to a tablet interface?

I can see that fake Ikea app video on the iPad. I don't see it ever showing up on a Windows tablet.

Android will also benefit from its own application store and how it's used mostly on touchscreen devices.

 

[SnakeXs]

Music + Work

Music + Games

IM + Work

IM + Web Browsing + Work

Music + Web Browsing

Web Browsing + Work + GAF

Music works just fine. IM is less than ideal for sure, but most decent IM clients keep you logged in and have push notifications.

That leaves "work", in which case everything else you do will save state when you back out. Again, less than ideal, but a deal breaker?

Web browsing + GAF? That's like saying chewing + eating.

You did forgot Last.fm/Pandora type things, which is a valid one but I downplay it as I don't ever use them. And again, multitasking could very well come by the time it launches/with OS 4.0.

Such a huge deal, I'd say.

 

[Keylime]

Music + Work

Music + Games

IM + Work

IM + Web Browsing + Work

Music + Web Browsing

Web Browsing + Work + GAF

GAF + Twitter + Facebook + Australian Open Final Streaming

Music + X it'll handle, at least.

 

[D4Danger]

None will have the App Store like the iPad and will be the huge differentiator just like it is on the iPhone.

I think this might be the case for some people.

Personally I would like to see more developers use web technologies instead of being locked down to Apple app store.

Here's a recent article about why developers might be moving away from Apple's lock-in

http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2010/01/27/7-reasons-developers-desert-iphone-apps/

7 Reasons Why Developers are Deserting iPhone Apps

There are several benefits to this approach:

• There is no need to use a Mac or purchase the iPhone SDK.
• You can use any server technology or language — you’re not forced to learn Objective-C.
• Existing web applications can be adapted without a fundamental rewrite.
• There is no need to wait for Apple’s approval. Apple regularly refuses iPhone applications for arcane reasons.
• Applications and updates can be released instantly rather than waiting 3 weeks for approval and entry into the Apple store.
• The resulting web application is cross-platform and should work on a PC or another mobile.
• Since the iPhone user is already using a browser, it’s less of a jarring experience when launching web pages.

Now I'm not saying the App store is going to crumble overnight, of course not, but as more products come onto the market it makes sense for developers to leverage skills they already have with a product that is platform agnostic.

 

[m0dus]

Are these going to be out in 2010 ? Notion Ink sounds really good on a paper. Will keep my eye on it.

These will all be out in 2010, supposedly. MSI and HP are definites.

 

[bionic77]

I imagine most non-techies would be amazed by that promo video.

That is who Apple is going after. My Dad is a not a good example because he literally knows nothing about computers, but most people don't even know what flash is, except when a website prompts them to download it to watch a video or play a game. The same idiots would download a file named virus if a prompt came up saying the had to download and install it to watch whatever it was they wanted to see (most likely porn).

I mean on GAF there seems to be a large sentiment that iPods are horrible as well because they don't have many of the hardware features of their competitors, but so far Apple has been right on about what the consumer wants and it will be interesting to see if they get it right again with the iPad.

As I said before, personally I am waiting for the upgrades to the MBP and I am happy with just a laptop and my iPhone, but I can definitely see there being a market (no idea how large) for this.

 

[m0dus]

If I think about the things that I do with a netbook (email, Facebook, browsing, chatting) it seems like the iPad probably makes all these things a lot easier. That's anecdotal, but I think a lot of people use their netbooks primarily for those functions or similar ones, so in that sense, Apple really has made something that destroys every other netbook out there in terms of ease of use and portability, so I think that Jobs made a fair comparison.

In the sense that I'd feel ok giving to my parents to use and not be afraid I'd have to fix it or explain it once a week, it doesn't really have any competition, not to mention that it looks to be the pinnacle of toilet computing.

This is the only niche I see the ipad fitting, although as a web-experience, the lack of flash hampers it. love or hate flash, you've got to support it right now.

Exactly.

can't live without those flashlights and fart-apps, eh? :lol

 

[Vennt]

Yeah, Notion Ink was the one I was keeping my eye on after the downfall of the CrunchPad.

It's just a shame that the Adam, as it's now called looks a damn sight uglier than the concept renders from December, hopefully that's just due to it still being prototyped, but it still looks to be going in a different direction to the renders. The specs are certainly nice.

My two fears with the Notion Ink, are the same I had with the CrunchPad, that either the firm will not have enough sales clout to inspire pad related Android app development, if they can even get to market in the first place.

I'm really not interested in a Windows 7 based Tablet PC, I don't want another PC, I want the ease of use & speed of utility of an iPod Touch, in a bigger size, that's it, I have enough PC's in the house already.

 

[numble]

How much will this thing go for with an Education discount?

 

[jts]

can't live without those flashlights and fart-apps, eh? :lol

Exactly, if there's a platform that doesn't have any crapware, that must be Windows :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

 

[cjdunn]

Eh? I'm pretty sure Flash isn't downloaded after you install the browser. It (the plugin) is included in the installation file. And that's not going to change anytime soon.

The problem with doing that is Adobe has the complete end-to-end distribution for Flash content covered, from creation to deployment to consumption. There aren't any graphical HTML 5/CSS/JS editors that can create content like Flash can, and Flash has a reach that HTML 5 doesn't right now.

You really have no clue whatsoever as to what you're speaking of.

Yep.

 

[Totakeke]

Oh yes, multi-tasking viability and use case arguments incoming. Excellent!

 

[which1spink]

:lol @ at all of you guys who makes it look like adobe is a slave of apple - actually it's they other way around. Imagine adobe would stop supporting osx... How many professional users would stay?

 

[dude]

How much Windows software is multi-touch and tailored to a tablet interface?

I can see that fake Ikea app video on the iPad. I don't see it ever showing up on a Windows tablet.

Android will also benefit from its own application store and how it's used mostly on touchscreen devices.

Even if most software isn't "tailored" for multi-touch, it's still more than usable on a small screen and touch interface,. You can't compare mobile apps to actual software that runs on a full OS - even if the software isn't 100% "tailored" to that specific experience, because overall the experience is not as different as you think.

EDIT: People saying the lack of multi-tasking is not huge... are you serious? I can't imagine having to do one thing at a time on a computer (or anything inspiring to resemble one.)

 

[Sriffat]

Music works just fine. IM is less than ideal for sure, but most decent IM clients keep you logged in and have push notifications.

That leaves "work", in which case everything else you do will save state when you back out. Again, less than ideal, but a deal breaker?

Web browsing + GAF? That's like saying chewing + eating.

You did forgot Last.fm/Pandora type things, which is a valid one but I downplay it as I don't ever use them. And again, multitasking could very well come by the time it launches/with OS 4.0.

Such a huge deal, I'd say.

GAF always has a dedicated browser window for me

 

[Hari Seldon]

Yeah I'm waiting for a Windows 7 tablet. A cell phone OS is fine for a cell phone, but I want more capability for a tablet.

 

[SnakeXs]

GAF always has a dedicated browser window for me

I'm sure that's a deal breaker for so many people and totally negates everything else, right?

 

[DataStream]

Also, the games and animations you're discussing can be achieved using CSS3, JavaScript, and the HTML 5 canvas element.

That's all fine and good, but we are not at a point where support for this is ubiquitous. Personally, I worry that most likely we will reach a new point of non-standard implementation brought about by Google and Apple's lust for power. And to be frank, you should be much more worried about Apple's walled garden than Adobe's given the penetration of their mobile devices and consistent growth if you actually care about openness.

More importantly, there is no tool for artists that has a workflow that begins to approach the sophistication of the Flash authoring tools when it comes to animation, interactivity, and the ability to integrate with different digital artists. Until this happens, as cool as canvas and HTML5 can be, it will be the domain of the geeky fringe of internet technology and tech demos.