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[Opus Angelorum]

Let's be honest, no-one is going to be reading books outside with the iPad.

 

[jonnybryce]

Why? Because you decided?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Let's be honest, no-one is going to be reading books outside with the iPad.

If they are reading books on it, why wouldn't they be reading books outside?

Use as an eReader is one if its strengths.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Would it be possible to add multi tasking to the iPhones in 4.0? Or would that be impossible?

Yeah it's possible. On my 3gs I have backgrounder installed and multitasking is a breeze. No performance hit at all. It's a beautiful thing.

 

[SnakeXs]

Let's be honest, no-one is going to be reading books outside with the iPad.

As someone who lives in NYC I can say you are absolutely wrong.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

As someone who lives in NYC I can say you are absolutely wrong.

I should have qualified, where I'm from (Northern Ireland) people won't be. The combination of bad weather and local thugs is not the best environment for an e-reader.

 

[Evlar]

I assume he means the glare of sunlight will make it less than ideal for reading outside in daylight. I can use my iPhone outside but the viewing conditions certainly aren't great for it. Eyestrain abounds.

 

[tokkun]

In this case, what makes the iPad just gettable? It's a device that needs an infrastructure to work to its intended potential (PC/Mac to sync with, wifi network to get to the Internet) and since when is Grandma particularly good at managing those?

How is Grandma going to "just get" her most precious photos onto the iPad? How is Grandma going to "just get" an app she wants when she has to sort through more than 140000 apps on the App Store where the ratings are all over the place and the descriptions spend more time on testimonials and review quotes than a straight-up description of what the app actually does? How does Grandma just print? Etc.

It's all just part of the conceit of anecdotal G6P.

I think this is a pretty good point. I bought my Mom an iPod Nano a year ago, and I'm still getting calls from her asking me to walk her through core tasks like getting music from a CD to the device. Prior to this, I had the attitude that iPod + iTunes was intuitive enough that anyone could use them.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

This product makes so little sense I wouldn't be surprised if apple isn't really backing it. Like the Apple TV, they introduced something new because the expectation is there, heck this may have been some crazy scheme to raise the stock, sell before it falls, I don't know.

I just can't believe apple has come out with this POS.

:lol

The problem with Apple TV is that there are certain aspects of TV (namely live Sports and Live News) that you can't get - so you put consumers in the position of having to pay for cable/satellite AND any episodes/movies they want to download (all of which they can probably get on their DVR or through Pay-per-view on their current tv subscription).

 

[ckohler]

Pee-wee gets an iPad

 

[adamsappel]

That I can on one hand the number of people say they intend to purchase one of these on our boards is not a good indicator.

You can put me in your hand.

Wait, what?

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

You can put me in your hand.

Wait, what?

I'm there as well. I think Tobor is probably on the list too, and we know Gary is too, so we're running out of fingers quickly.

 

[SmokyDave]

I'm there as well. I think Tobor is probably on the list too, and we know Gary is too, so we're running out of fingers quickly.

I want the thumb!

 

[Shogmaster]

Pee-wee gets an iPad

OUCH! :lol

 

[otake]

:lol

The problem with Apple TV is that there are certain aspects of TV (namely live Sports and Live News) that you can't get - so you put consumers in the position of having to pay for cable/satellite AND any episodes/movies they want to download (all of which they can probably get on their DVR or through Pay-per-view on their current tv subscription).

You have limitations on this ipad as well; limited storage, no flash, etc. There's nothing about the ipad I can't do on a macbook for a similar fucking price.

 

[Keylime]

I'm there as well. I think Tobor is probably on the list too, and we know Gary is too, so we're running out of fingers quickly.

I'm not 100% out of the picture myself, but my use of this device would be EXTREMELY limited. I'm very comfortable doing 90% of the activities I'd use the iPad for on my iPhone, even if the screen is smaller, it's infinitely more portable.

 

[kaching]

I assure you that you won't find me ever speaking highly of the average person in pretty much any respects...

I am assured, I guess.

and if you don't understand how the iPhone and the iPad are insanely easier to understand than a full-blown computer or other CE handset, than a conversation isn't going to convince you otherwise.

You're arriving at the wrong conclusion from my post. I never said the iPhone/iPad aren't easier to understand than other computing devices, but they still have a threshold of understanding for all the tasks that they enable and it just seems awfully convenient how GAF's generally pessimistic perspective of the Grandmas, Soccer Moms and J6Ps manages to allow just enough sunshine in on these people to allow that they can clear those hurdles on their own.

Look, here's my own anecdote. I and my wife both use iPhones and have been doing so since they first came out. She uses a mac, I use a PC. She'll sing the praises of the iPhone/Mac, that they "just work" while she conveniently glosses over the fact that it doesn't happen without a significant assist from >this guy< providing 24/7 tech support. She's had plenty of trouble with both and wouldn't know how to do half the things she does without me showing her how they work.

Meanwhile, we have a spare iphone 2G which we were going to gift to her mother. My wife has shown her mom firsthand how the iPhone works but she refuses to take it (FREE!) because she still thinks it's too complex. I know that a big part of that stems from the fact that we live too far away to help her if she runs into problems and no one else she lives with would be able to help her with it.

This human assist factor gets glossed over a lot in these conversations about how easy this device or that device is to use. It's often only with the assist from a "techie", aka someone who doesn't curl up into a ball and cry at the thought of reading a manual, that the average person gets up and running even with these "easier" systems.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I'm not 100% out of the picture myself, but my use of this device would be EXTREMELY limited. I'm very comfortable doing 90% of the activities I'd use the iPad for on my iPhone, even if the screen is smaller, it's infinitely more portable.

Agreed, which is why I'm not bothering to get the 3G version of the iPad. Tethering it to my iPhone down the line, as needed, makes more sense anyway.

I've said a couple of times in this thread, that I have some very clear cut, and specific reasons as to why this is a good device for me when I'm traveling. It's size will definitely come in handy in those situations.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

You have limitations on this ipad as well; limited storage, no flash, etc. There's nothing about the ipad I can't do on a macbook for a similar fucking price.

Where can I get one of these $499 macbooks?

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

You have limitations on this ipad as well; limited storage, no flash, etc. There's nothing about the ipad I can't do on a macbook for a similar fucking price.

you should look at the typical computer users pc and see how much space they actually use. 100% of the people i know who are not in the IT field for the most part don't go over the 10gb of space. Back when I did help desk and used to fix people computers on the side outside of some mp3s and and low res videos, i never saw anyone even go over 20gb of storage, and that's including the xp install.

 

[captive]

Actually, GAFer people always seem to give average people just enough credit to get what the GAFer wants to peddle at the time. Convenient, eh?

I mean, I never quite understand what's going to make all these supposedly dumb-as-a-post grandmas (bless their souls) that are anecdotally referenced all the time somehow just "get" the particular product that one faction or another at GAF wants to peddle.

In this case, what makes the iPad just gettable? It's a device that needs an infrastructure to work to its intended potential (PC/Mac to sync with, wifi network to get to the Internet) and since when is Grandma particularly good at managing those?

How is Grandma going to "just get" her most precious photos onto the iPad? How is Grandma going to "just get" an app she wants when she has to sort through more than 140000 apps on the App Store where the ratings are all over the place and the descriptions spend more time on testimonials and review quotes than a straight-up description of what the app actually does? How does Grandma just print? Etc.

It's all just part of the conceit of anecdotal G6P.

grandma is going to call us.

 

[Evlar]

you should look at the typical computer users pc and see how much space they actually use. 100% of the people i know who are not in the IT field for the most part don't go over the 10gb of space. Back when I did help desk and used to fix people computers on the side outside of some mp3s and and low res videos, i never saw anyone even go over 20gb of storage, and that's including the xp install.

I doubt Apple shares this opinion. Their business model is anchored on people purchasing content. A handful of movies will place you right up against the 20GB line that none of your clients crossed.

In other words, people who have minimal storage requirements because they consume very little digital entertainment don't seem to be in the primary market Apple's aiming at.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

I doubt Apple shares this opinion. Their business model is anchored on people purchasing content. A handful of movies will place you right up against the 20GB line that none of your clients crossed.

In other words, people who have minimal storage requirements because they consume very little digital entertainment don't seem to be in the primary market Apple's aiming at.

Apple primarily rents movies now - buy, watch, disappear.

 

[otake]

you should look at the typical computer users pc and see how much space they actually use. 100% of the people i know who are not in the IT field for the most part don't go over the 10gb of space. Back when I did help desk and used to fix people computers on the side outside of some mp3s and and low res videos, i never saw anyone even go over 20gb of storage, and that's including the xp install.

You've been out of the industry too long. I was speaking for personal use but I happen to know, the people around me don't delete anything.

Apple primarily rents movies now - buy, watch, disappear.

They do both, movies are first available to buy only, after a month, you can rent. Apple and the movie industry wants you to buy.

 

[SuperPac]

I'm there as well. I think Tobor is probably on the list too, and we know Gary is too, so we're running out of fingers quickly.

Yep, I'm on that train too. I'm definitely buying one if not at launch, shortly after.

 

[Keylime]

They do both, movies are first available to buy only, after a month, you can rent. Apple and the movie industry wants you to buy.

Not always. I've seen movies show up as rent only with buying as not even an option.

I personally live entirely within the iTunes world when it comes to music/movies/tv shows/apps and it's really not a bad way to live.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I'm 90% sure I'll buy one unless some announcement on the Courier or an i5 MBP comes out prior to launch.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I'm 90% sure I'll buy one unless some announcement on the Courier or an i5 MBP comes out prior to launch.

Isn't the Courier just a concept device that MS has been showing off? Since they don't make hardware, has there been any indication that someone is actually building the thing?

 

[SolidSquirrel]

So uh... What is there to defend about the iPad? It seems like you're just paying extra for a nice, fancy UI and more limited use vs. a netbook.

Or you're paying a premium for a bigger device that you can't take with you everywhere vs. an iTouch.

I'm sure this argument has played out x1000 in this thread but... I don't really care.

 

[Keylime]

Isn't the Courier just a concept device that MS has been showing off? Since they don't make hardware, has there been any indication that someone is actually building the thing?

Yes. No.

That courier sure did look nice...but I have no freaking idea if it's even a real thing or just a design video.

 

[ocadman]

Pee-wee gets an iPad

Damn, I had no idea Pee-Wee still has a show.

 

[otake]

Not always. I've seen movies show up as rent only with buying as not even an option.

I personally live entirely within the iTunes world when it comes to music/movies/tv shows/apps and it's really not a bad way to live.

My media consumption use to be exclusive to itunes a year ago. It kind of gets expensive if you buy tv shows and I got impatient when movies I wanted to see were buy-only. In my case, it was no country for old men that pissed me off to no end.

Then you see netflix & hulu have cable tv shows available for free and, well I left itunes.

 

[SnakeXs]

So uh... What is there to defend about the iPad? It seems like you're just paying extra for a nice, fancy UI and more limited use vs. a netbook.

Or you're paying a premium for a bigger device that you can't take with you everywhere vs. an iTouch.

I'm sure this argument has played out x1000 in this thread but... I don't really care.

That much is obvious.

 

[Vennt]

I'm sure this argument has played out x1000 in this thread but... I don't really care.

I care, use your ban to read the thread instead of lazily expecting others to handhold you.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

I care, use your ban to read the thread instead of lazily expecting others to handhold you.

:O!

I'm 100% getting on on 3G launch since it'll be in my bag whilst I'm out and about.
I'm waiting on a nice little sleeve for it too

*shudders at the official Apple case*

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

:O!

I'm 100% getting on on 3G launch since it'll be in my bag whilst I'm out and about.
I'm waiting on a nice little sleeve for it too

*shudders at the official Apple case*

Yeah, I'm looking at case/sleeve options too. I like the Apple case's functionality, but not a fan of it's looks, and I'm sure there will be others to follow that will be better. We've already started to see some other designs, but I'd like something that can put the tablet in a position to type on it and watch movies.

 

[kaching]

factually untrue.

Do tell. Grandma's only getting the $500 model. I doubt she's springing for an extra $130 + $30/mo subscription for a 3G version. I'm certainly not buying it for her. So how does she get on the web with the $500 SKU without a wifi network setup?

over a usb connection to tha camera?

iPad has USB ports now? Hot diggity!

over the wifi network of her grandkids?

And so now apparently she's not using her $500 iPad until she gets over to her grandkids place, got it.

grandma will use the browser and email programs 99.99999% of the time. grandma does not even need to know about the existence of appstore. if grandma accidentailly learned about the appstore, chances are the people who told her about it also told her about this precious little app X all other grandmas have been raving about.

Why are we buying Grandma this $500 device again when she's apparently ignoring a large portion of its core features?

grandma doesn't. she has a fuckin tablet in her hands.

Grandma's hands are a bit arthritic and she's more than a little hesitant to carry such an expensive device around with her in public. When Grandma gets coupons/rebates in her email, she'd like to print them out, not have to carry the iPad to the store and hold that up. Also, she doesn't want to read driving directions from an iPad. She's also messy in the kitchen and the iPad is such a beautiful, elegant thing, she'd rather just print a recipe than run the risk of spilling something on the iPad. Besides, if she likes the recipe, she'll want to add it to the hardcopy recipe book/box of favorites that she's been keeping for decades. She's not just going to transfer all that over to the iPad.

 

[Keylime]

Tons of discussion about grandmas

Dude, grandmas are not the core demographic of any mainstream CE.

"Average person" does not equal "old person"

 

[jts]

iPad has USB ports now? Hot diggity!

USB port and SD card reader for photo and video transfer convenience.

 

[maharg]

Dude, grandmas are not the core demographic of any mainstream CE.

"Average person" does not equal "old person"

Pretty sure this discussion started with quite a lot of people saying things like "this is perfect for computer illiterate people like my grandma." There definitely appear to be people who think they are a core demographic of this device.

Also lawl @ those adapters. They'll be about as popular as GameCube bongos.

 

[Keylime]

Pretty sure this discussion started with quite a lot of people saying things like "this is perfect for computer illiterate people like my grandma." There definitely appear to be people who think they are a core demographic of this device.

Sure, that sentence makes sense, but there is no way that is the main market Apple is going for here.

Everyone benefits from an easier to use computer, including grandparents, but I'd go bankrupt in a heartbeat if I focused all my advertising on attracting seniors to try and buy this thing :lol

Also lawl @ those adapters. They'll be about as popular as GameCube bongos.

Totally agree.

 

[NimbusD]

The thing I don't get about most tablets in general: at this size isn't it just more convenient to use a stylus? I'd rather have something with a pressure sensitive wacom type deal. Touch input, even multitouch for something at this level/size is just to finnicky and hampers what's capable with it (aside from just media consumption).

That's my thought at least, I like the size of the mini 5 for this type of thing.

 

[jts]

Pretty sure this discussion started with quite a lot of people saying things like "this is perfect for computer illiterate people like my grandma." There definitely appear to be people who think they are a core demographic of this device.

Also lawl @ those adapters. They'll be about as popular as GameCube bongos.

Sure. Actually they already exist (at least the USB one) for certain iPods, but yeah any average computer user doesn't need them for naught.

But it's cool to have the option for the people that will use an iPad as a primary "computing" device.

 

[Kung Fu Jedi]

I'll be picking up the camera kit to back-up photos and upload them while traveling. Do I wish there was a built in SD slot? Sure. Can I live with the kit. Absolutely.

 

[Blackhead]

I think it's kind of amusing - before we knew anything about the Nexus One, there were rumors that it would be a phone sold by Google with ONLY WiFi/Data, no voice plan. People were flipping out, saying it would change the way smartphones were made/sold, it'd do VoIP so you could talk forever without minutes, etc...

But the Nexus One came out, and it's just another smart phone with normal plans and rates. However, the iPad comes out, and it's exactly what people were freaking out about the Nexus One for - it does WiFi and 3G only, no voice plan but apps will have VoIP - and SO MUCH more, and yet, people are bitching. Is it because it's specifically a tablet form factor? As in, if the iPad were exactly the same but iPhone sized, would people like it better? (Essentialy an iPhone without a voice plan, which is what the Nexus One was supposed to be) Or is there just a double standard because it was a Google product, and this is an Apple product?

?! No double standard. The iPad isn't in a phone form factor, it can't fit into a pocket. The iPad doesn't have a VOIP app that can run in the background. The iPad doesn't have native Google Voice. It was guessed that the N1 would have all those features, hence the hype and calls for revolution pre-announcement.

Quick word for the people advocating carrying a netbook+kindle/iPod Touch (or all three!) instead of an iPad: don't you know the meaning of the term 'convergence device'? ok the Kindle is debatably a better ereader (eink, battery life) but it's not a better netbook than an iPad. And the netbook is debatably a better portable computer/video player (widescreen, hulu, netflix, multitasking) but it's not a better ereader. So netbook $300 (or comparable specs $400) + kindle $259 (or comparable screen size $489) i.e. $559 ($889) /= iPad $500

 

[mrkgoo]

I'm there as well. I think Tobor is probably on the list too, and we know Gary is too, so we're running out of fingers quickly.

The sheer fact you didn't list me makes baby mrkgoo cry :_(

wow didnt know Kevin Rose is that stupid. e-ink costs ALOT more than IPS/LED/LCD display

I think you've missed the point of Kevin's post. He's not saying the tech is simply $1 on top. He's looking at it from a functionality/utility or 'what you get' point of view. Basically, the same arguments that are coming from people talking about a netbook being better than an iPad.

Stick a netback next to the kindle and do the same thing, and the netback can come out on top too - colour screen, does this, does that, and for less. "OH", but you say, "they're not the same thing! a kindle is an e-reader! it has a screen and store for reading!" But yet people do that to the iPad! The iPad doesn't have an E-ink, screen, no, so yes, it IS closer to a netbook, but at the same time, it ISN'T a netbook. Think of an iPad as a cross of a kindle and a netbook rather than a cross of an iPod touch and three other iPod touches.

Kevin's point was that if people can stick a netback next to the iPad and list bullet points on how its better, then he's allowed to stick it next to a kindle and list bullet points on how its better. The point is justification becomes easier when you change your perspective. To see what the device is meant to be, you need to see it coming from the right place.


The comparison with netbooks, some for, some against, I reckon comes from two places. The netbook sits in between a laptop and smartphone, but definitely at the laptop end of things. I assume people want/get one for one of two reasons: 1) people who want a complementary computer for either portable/mobile or menial/casual tasks; and 2) people who want a supplementary computer that can replace their laptop, or do so for portability. In short, 1) is for those who want something in addition to their other computers, and 2) is for those that want something instead of their main computers.

A lot of the 'for' iPad arguments are coming from the first group, and a lot of the 'against' arguments are coming from the second. And the two groups don't see that, hence the crazy wild, "I don't get the point" cries from both sides.

I think the biggest hurdle is going to be adoption rate. If people aren't flocking to the store to buy these things, and the general perception is that they aren't that amazing...there's no motivation for people to treat it seriously with app development, as the install-base would be so insignificant.

If people don't buy these things like mad day 1, I think we're going to have another AppleTV on our hands.

That I can on one hand the number of people say they intend to purchase one of these on our boards is not a good indicator.

I assure you that you won't find me ever speaking highly of the average person in pretty much any respects...and if you don't understand how the iPhone and the iPad are insanely easier to understand than a full-blown computer or other CE handset, than a conversation isn't going to convince you otherwise.

First thing's first: Apple won't let this fail. If this is truly something they believe in, and it's the culmination of ten years of research, they will do as they did with the iPod, and the iPhone. They will push it like nothing they've ever pushed before. If adoption rates are slow, they will drop the price. If they see multitasking as a huge barrier to everyone, they will find a workaround. They won't let this sink. The so-called 'fixes' may come in the first version (later), or they may come in later versions. That's how it has always been for Apple (results vary depending on initial response, obviously). If people don't flock to it, Apple will change it until they do.

At some point, there will be an option that everyone will 'see' what this device is, even if Apple has to drop it $299 for that to happen. You think that's crazy? Maybe, but crazy is within Apple's means. The actual hardware isn't out of this world - once they recoup costs of the R&D (mostly the chip), it's very simple tech. Anyway, my point was one day, if it's not something people want immediately, Apple WILL tweak it until it is. Then all the haters will simply remark that of course everyone wants one now, because they fixed it. I realize a good point is that without the complaints, Apple won't fix it, so I appreciate and do see the shortcomings. But to not see the potential success is very short sighted to me, especially since there ARE people who are excited.

 

[kaching]

yes, I know about the adapters. So?

"Average person" does not equal "old person"

Like I've been trying to say, "average person" is an arbitrary construct of what a GAFer thinks will sell their argument. In this case, as maharg already pointed out, there's been high association of "old person" as a primary example of "average person" in this discussion, so I'm just following from that.

 

[otake]

This is my usability problem, If I buy this device I still have to carry my laptop, my phone and my ipod. It actually increases the amount of electronics I carry.

 

[NimbusD]

Asking users to manually manage resources by closing unneeded applications is completely undesirable and leads to a bad user experience.

Their current implementation makes it so they don't need to worry about users opening a ton of apps and then complaining when their device runs out of batteries in a heartbeat as well as running like a piece of shit.

I don't think Apple will ever have multi-tasking as something that is on by default for this very reason. It just makes for a poor user-experience. We take it for granted because we're used to doing these activities, but trust me, their current implementation is actually brilliant. Adding multi-tasking is something they had to reject from the get-go in order for it to work.

My android phone manages multitasking just fine without having to manage resources.

 

[Keylime]

First thing's first: Apple won't let this fail. If this is truly something they believe in, and it's the culmination of ten years of research, they will do as they did with the iPod, and the iPhone. They will push it like nothing they've ever pushed before. If adoption rates are slow, they will drop the price. If they see multitasking as a huge barrier to everyone, they will find a workaround. They won't let this sink. The so-called 'fixes' may come in the first version (later), or they may come in later versions. That's how it has always been for Apple (results vary depending on initial response, obviously). If people don't flock to it, Apple will change it until they do.

At some point, there will be an option that everyone will 'see' what this device is, even if Apple has to drop it $299 for that to happen. You think that's crazy? Maybe, but crazy is within Apple's means. The actual hardware isn't out of this world - once they recoup costs of the R&D (mostly the chip), it's very simple tech. Anyway, my point was one day, if it's not something people want immediately, Apple WILL tweak it until it is. Then all the haters will simply remark that of course everyone wants one now, because they fixed it. I realize a good point is that without the complaints, Apple won't fix it, so I appreciate and do see the shortcomings. But to not see the potential success is very short sighted to me, especially since there ARE people who are excited.

For what it's worth, I don't see Apple exhibiting this behavior whatsoever for the AppleTV. Perhaps it's a device they don't care about anymore, but we don't know yet whether this device will be an AppleTV or an iPhone in terms of success.

I guess I'm just saying Apple is more than capable of forgetting about it's devices if they aren't successful.