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[hiro4]

Thanks for writing this. Well put, something I've been meaning to say, but not sure how to put in words, and instead just delusional ranted form lack of sleep the past couple of days.

Your situation is mirroring mine. I like the device, I see the potential, but I'm also not blind to the shortcomings. I'm not defending them, I'm just dealing with it. I know people will argue that accepting it IS defending it, and that may be so, but does that really bug you that much?

I'm also hoping to get one because I have a bit more disposable income. I can nearly guarantee this device will be more expensive when I return to NZ, and I don't pay sales tax in the US, so I just want to take advantage of a cheaper price. I want it for the shiny toy factor - I admit that completely, but I don't think that's a crime.

I'm in the same situation.
I have a love/hate relationship with the iPad, but I can guarantee that this device or its successor will find a way in my home.

Just like they did with the MBP and the iPhone.
I'm already Mac orientated so this will come as a nice device I can just pick up from the coffee table when i'm too lazy to turn on my pc.

 

[antispin]

Old news maybe but -- I was watching the Engadget hands-on video and the iPad has some pretty shoddy UI elements. In that it's not an obvious UI; most un-Apple like. The guys were trying to exit apps, go back to the app's home screen, zoom into videos and it's a bit of a messy interface:

- It wasn't obvious how to go back to the spreadsheet's homescreen once a slideshow started
- It wasn't obvious how to go back to the bookshelf view inside the iBooks app
- Videos can be "restored" by pinching in to give a related videos listing on the right, but pinching out doesn't take the video to fullscreen (as one might expect). Neither does double-tapping. You need to tap, then hit the fullscreen icon on the video player to fullscreen
- Some elements don't seem very finger-friendly. Like the "next" button on the iTunes store's secondary showcase area
- Search was broken. They should have hidden in if it wasn't working in this version

Very un-Apple, this lack of attention to detail. It all felt a little rushed. I hope they use the 60-day release window to fix these elements.

 

[mrkgoo]

Old news maybe but -- I was watching the Engadget hands-on video and the iPad has some pretty shoddy UI elements. In that it's not an obvious UI; most un-Apple like. The guys were trying to exit apps, go back to the app's home screen, zoom into videos and it's a bit of a messy interface:

- It wasn't obvious how to go back to the spreadsheet's homescreen once a slideshow started
- It wasn't obvious how to go back to the bookshelf view inside the iBooks app
- Videos can be "restored" by pinching in to give a related videos listing on the right, but pinching out doesn't take the video to fullscreen (as one might expect). Neither does double-tapping. You need to tap, then hit the fullscreen icon on the video player to fullscreen
- Some elements don't seem very finger-friendly. Like the "next" button on the iTunes store's secondary showcase area
- Search was broken. They should have hidden in if it wasn't working in this version

Very un-Apple, this lack of attention to detail. It all felt a little rushed. I hope they use the 60-day release window to fix these elements.

Funny, I was just watching that before coming here and noticed the same things. The pinch to out of full screen looked out of place. But maybe its system wide. Note we didn't know some of the gestures for the ipod touch initially either, so it probably becomes obvious. The demonstrator wasn't all that clued in to the controls either.

At any rate the speed of the photos app was impressive.

 

[mrkgoo]

Nice PC Mag hands-on in High Definition.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlg55zI2Ebc

One of the best videos yet, thanks.

 

[Primetime21]

Funny, I was just watching that before coming here and noticed the same things. The pinch to out of full screen looked out of place. But maybe its system wide.

At any rate the speed of the photos app was impressive.

To me it seemed as if they didnt know what they were doing. If I recall correctly doubletap gets the user out of full screen and Jobs directly went over it. I think some of the UI was a little funky but Apple is not going to release something that is a major patch from working properly.

Waiting for 2nd Gen before even considering. A lot to be added and I will let the 1G users find out what works and doesnt. I hate the idea of relying on an App store/book store/ Itunes for every little thing. Apple is going to make a redunkulous amount of money on software/media though, I just wished it had something more than a revolutionary battery and price. Latest tech, tools, and customization really appeal to the geek in me, even if it has the apple we all know and love on the back I need to see the turtleneck sell me something that makes are predictions look like shit.

 

[ganbareneopokekun]

my thoughts :

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

You didn't see the part when I said iPad versions of..

Not the whole package, but a smaller version...

You can't do a smaller version of it, it's a professional DAW. It either does what it does or it's some second rate behind the times program nobody's going to use. It has to be able to process gigs of lossless audio tracks each run through multiple effect plug-ins and modules. You take that away and it's just a toy its intended audience won't bother with. There will be music production programs for the iPad no doubt, but Logic will not be one of them.

 

[Mecha_Infantry]

You can't do a smaller version of it, it's a professional DAW. It either does what it does or it's some second rate behind the times program nobody's going to use. It has to be able to process gigs of lossless audio tracks each run through multiple effect plug-ins and modules. You take that away and it's just a toy its intended audience won't bother with. There will be music production programs for the iPad no doubt, but Logic will not be one of them.

Dude, you can do anything small. I maybe should have said Garageband not Logic

 

[Opus Angelorum]

As some have pointed out the discussion seems to be going around in circles, and it seems pointless to continue any further.

I've had a few days to reflect on the iPad and I'm just going to list both the positives and negatives (if anyone cares):

Positive

- Ease of use
- Design (Very thin, elegant)
- Ecosystem
- Reliability (Hardware)
- No contract

Negative

- Resolution (It is not widescreen)
- Design (The bezel is too thick, heavy)
- Portability (Just not practical outside of the home, 3G is essential)
- No multi-tasking (Fine for the iPhone/Touch but not for a device of this size)
- No USB
- No Flash (I understand the argument for not including it, but given the choice...)

Does the device have potential, absolutely. Does it have a market, not sure.

 

[MrHicks]

once again dramatica is bringing the lulz (repost too?)

"Coming soon to an Apple store near you!"

 

[WordAssassin]

I think it's kind of amusing - before we knew anything about the Nexus One, there were rumors that it would be a phone sold by Google with ONLY WiFi/Data, no voice plan. People were flipping out, saying it would change the way smartphones were made/sold, it'd do VoIP so you could talk forever without minutes, etc...

But the Nexus One came out, and it's just another smart phone with normal plans and rates. However, the iPad comes out, and it's exactly what people were freaking out about the Nexus One for - it does WiFi and 3G only, no voice plan but apps will have VoIP - and SO MUCH more, and yet, people are bitching. Is it because it's specifically a tablet form factor? As in, if the iPad were exactly the same but iPhone sized, would people like it better? (Essentialy an iPhone without a voice plan, which is what the Nexus One was supposed to be) Or is there just a double standard because it was a Google product, and this is an Apple product?

 

[Keylime]

I've never seen so much backlash over a device before. People are really going out of their way to let you know they don't like what was shown.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I've never seen so much backlash over a device before. People are really going out of their way to let you know they don't like what was shown.

Fair point, and I can't honestly say most people are genuine in their complaints. I realise a lot of the negativity will exist simply due to the Apple branding.

 

[titiklabingapat]

Fair point, and I can't honestly say most people are genuine in their complaints. I realise a lot of the negativity will exist simply due to the Apple branding.

It goes either way.

 

[Scalemail Ted]

That $30 "unlimited data plan" most likely has the same 5gb cap that every other at&t bolt-on data package has.

 

[SmokyDave]

I've never seen so much backlash over a device before. People are really going out of their way to let you know they don't like what was shown.

Seriously!

As a PSP Go owner looking to buy one of these as soon as possible I'm worried about leaving the house in case I'm dragged through the streets and displayed at the town crossings as a warning to other electronics purchasers.

 

[Jill Sandwich]

I've just been taking a trip down memory lane and reading the MacWorld 2007 and Official iPhone threads. Ah, when multitouch was still fresh and the iPhone would be 'limited to tech geeks' and nobody would be texting on a touchscreen. I believe once we start seeing more desktop class apps on this, the mob will start putting down the pitchforks.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

@ Jill Sandwich

It was the price that made the initial iPhone audience so small, not the device itself. I agree however that it will be the applications that will make the Ipad successful (although I don't think they need to take the form of 'desktop class').

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

You could be right and that I don't see what's so bad about touch - but you have to realise, I just want a shiny toy.

I havew no beef with anybody who wants one. It's a unique experience and will have its fans. I'm talking about the general acceptance of the thing.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Do you always like making irrelevant arguments? Find me one of those netbooks that's going to give me the reading experience I'll get on an iPad. It's not about the number of functions, it's about the user experience on the functions that matter to the potential customer.

I disagree. People buy things to do things with them. I don't think media consumption is going to be enough to drive this and the current pricing, and it's pretty bad at everything else.

 

[Barrett2]

I've just been taking a trip down memory lane and reading the MacWorld 2007 and Official iPhone threads. Ah, when multitouch was still fresh and the iPhone would be 'limited to tech geeks' and nobody would be texting on a touchscreen. I believe once we start seeing more desktop class apps on this, the mob will start putting down the pitchforks.

What exactly do you mean by desktop quality apps? If this thing I basically a big iPhone, how will the Apps be meaningfully different, aside from allowing more screen real estate for a bigger virtual keyboard? I don't see how the Apps would be too much different just because it's a little easier to type on the screen.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I don't see how the Apps would be too much different just because it's a little easier to type on the screen.

I'm assuming with the increased performance and a wider scope for multi-touch (OS 4.0) applications can become fairly detailed/complex. I guess the real question though is how far can you go until a stylus/pointer is required?

Looking at the initial functionality of the iPad it seems Apple want the user to have a very linear experience (much like the iPhone/Touch).

 

[teruterubozu]

I feel like we did a total 360 back the Palm. We still can't figure out how to ditch the keyboard properly.

 

[Keylime]

I feel like we did a total 360 back the Palm. We still can't figure out how to ditch the keyboard properly.

Anything that requires text input is going to need a keyboard until we figure out a reliable way of inputting text via some alternative method (like voice or thought).

We're stuck with keyboards for a long ass time.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I think this is worth noting:

I'm down on the iPad for two reasons. One, it's not what *I* want, and that's personal. Two, I don't think it's what enough people want at that price for it to be successful. That's the important point.

In category One is multitasking, full OS, non-gimped browser, USB port, pressure-sensitive stylus support. But none of that is required to make this successful. Given that I think the above will never happen (except perhaps multitaksing, but IMHO that's not a huge deal for most people): the limitations we've seen are mostly a matter of design, and no reason to think they'll change. In which case it just needs to be cheaper. At the rumored $1000 price point I though we were getting a netbook equivalent + touch, and I could see that price. Since we're not, I think pricing more like $400-$600 with the 3G in all models is more the value sweet-spot.

We'll see if the market bites at the current price, or if there's a price cut ala the iPhone's post-release drop.

If this sells well without a price cut I will gladly eat crow. If there is a price cut, I'll take that as a sign that it's underselling expectations. In no world do I see these being ubiquitous or revolutionary (or any tablet-- I just don't think the tablet market is there for anybody).

For all my criticisms, this device *would* make sense if it weren't so expensive. And I'm not talking specs, Apple Defense Corps, I'm talking functions. For what they charge now, it ought to do more.

So thins represents my prediction. Failure at current prices, potential success at the $400-$600 price spot as a media player with web content.

 

[Keylime]

For all my criticisms, this device *would* make sense if it weren't so expensive. And I'm not talking specs, Apple Defense Corps, I'm talking functions. For what they charge now, it ought to do more.

Come on man...the one thing Apple did right this time around was the price. Sure, you may not like what you're getting software wise on the thing, but the hardware is totally boss.

An unsubsidized iPhone 3GS which is a smaller device with weaker specs is $700, for comparison.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I've just been taking a trip down memory lane and reading the MacWorld 2007 and Official iPhone threads. Ah, when multitouch was still fresh and the iPhone would be 'limited to tech geeks' and nobody would be texting on a touchscreen. I believe once we start seeing more desktop class apps on this, the mob will start putting down the pitchforks.

I agree. When the full fledged iPad apps are released en masse, I think I'll pick one up. I have a 3gs so I'm not in a real big rush to get an iPad.

Also I have a sneaking feeling the iPad will have multi tasking. They're just waiting on releasing info on 4.0 first.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Come on man...the one thing Apple did right this time around was the price. Sure, you may not like what you're getting software wise on the thing, but the hardware is totally boss.

An unsubsidized iPhone 3GS which is a smaller device with weaker specs is $700, for comparison.

And those sell like gangbusters, right? No. If unsubsidized phones sold in great numbers, they'd be more widely available.

 

[SnakeXs]

And those sell like gangbusters, right? No. If unsubsidized phones sold in great numbers, they'd be more widely available.

Because at the end of the day it's a phone. To many people this is a computer. I understand not for you, and you don't think others will see it that way, but that's what it's trying to do.

 

[Futureman]

Come on man...the one thing Apple did right this time around was the price. Sure, you may not like what you're getting software wise on the thing, but the hardware is totally boss.

An unsubsidized iPhone 3GS which is a smaller device with weaker specs is $700, for comparison.

It's not really $700 though. Isn't that really just to discourage people buying them out of contract? Aren't there teardowns out there that fairly accurately give a component cost?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Because at the end of the day it's a phone. To many people this is a computer. I understand not for you, and you don't think others will see it that way, but that's what it's trying to do.

That's my point-- as a computer, it's overpriced. And before you knee-jerk, I see the value in almost all of the rest of the Apple line, including the Air, so don't paint me with the anti-Apple brush.

 

[SnakeXs]

That's my point-- as a computer, it's overpriced. And before you knee-jerk, I see the value in almost all of the rest of the Apple line, including the Air, so don't paint me with the anti-Apple brush.

When have I painted anyone with an anti-Apple brush? The people I feel are just stirring up shit or have nothing worth hearing I don't really respond to. Unless it's funny to do so.

We simply disagree. You think people want a full fledged computer, and I have a real gut feeling that a large group of people won't mind a more streamlined computing experience.

Plus on value alone the iPad does a lot of shit. Obviously you can look at a netbook and think it does more for less, but I put value in hardware, and ease of use, and I think others do as well. There's a market for netbooks, and a market for this thing, with some overlap but that's not the whole story.

 

[scorcho]

I've never seen so much backlash over a device before. People are really going out of their way to let you know they don't like what was shown.

You don't remember when the first two iMac designs were unveiled? There were massive lulz and hate to be had on the interwebs.

 

[Barrett2]

Also I have a sneaking feeling the iPad will have multi tasking. They're just waiting on releasing info on 4.0 first.

Would it be possible to add multi tasking to the iPhones in 4.0? Or would that be impossible?

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

I don't think people are looking for a full computer, but I don't think they're going to pay that much over a Netbook price for something that isn't. Im sure the streamlined experience will be a draw for a lot of folks, just not at those prices.

I also put value on experience and ease of use, which is why my last 3 personal machines have been Macs and why I use one at work (since I had the option). But you buy something not just for the experience, but for the functions it provides. The iPad does not provide that many, that well.

 

[Keylime]

Would it be possible to add multi tasking to the iPhones in 4.0? Or would that be impossible?

Entirely possible.

From Apple's POV, I'm sure they don't want to go anywhere near multi-tasking until it can be done in a way that's impossibly easy to understand.

Just doing multi-tasking isn't what's hard, it's doing it "right" from Apple's POV that's going to delay or destory multi-tasking on these devices.

As I've said before, I'm not so sure Apple is interested in multi-tasking at all for these things. I wouldn't at all be shocked if they never intend to include that feature. Having it off by default and something you can enable in the settings screen would be something I hope they'd consider, however.

 

[SnakeXs]

I don't think people are looking for a full computer, but I don't think they're going to pay that much over a Netbook price for something that isn't. Im sure the streamlined experience will be a draw for a lot of folks, just not at those prices.

I also put value on experience and ease of use, which is why my last 3 personal machines have been Macs and why I use one at work (since I had the option). But you buy something not just for the experience, but for the functions it provides. The iPad does not provide that many, that well.

I'm just not seeing it. It provides a great swath of what your average non-geek does, and aims to do them better.

Add in apps, and the stores, and it's doing quite a bit.

 

[Opus Angelorum]

I don't think Apple would have any difficulties implementing an interface for task switching, for me it comes down to resource management and battery life.

 

[VAIL]

Seriously!

As a PSP Go owner looking to buy one of these as soon as possible I'm worried about leaving the house in case I'm dragged through the streets and displayed at the town crossings as a warning to other electronics purchasers.

...not to buy shitty products like this and the psp go

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

@Snake

I guess we agree to disagree. I don't see it doing most of them better, even than a netbook-- it does them worse. General computers need keyboards, and media tablets/book readers ought not cost this much. Browsers ought to have flash and be able to download files.

I think I'm done-- I've made my prediction, stated my reasons why I think this won't have mass-market appeal without a significant price drop, and why it won't ever be the revolution some say it will.

 

[Keylime]

I don't think Apple would have any difficulties implementing an interface for task switching, for me it comes down to resource management and battery life.

I'm not so sure.

Making multi-tasking on by default is not something that really makes sense. I'm pretty sure the design philosophy they're going with here is that the phone becomes whatever you want it to be, but it can only become one thing at a time. It keeps things extremely simple for the user to understand and allows them to dedicate as much of their available resources towards one process.

Multi-tasking is something that I'd imagine they'd want to keep to devices that are more traditional.

If you want and need multi-tasking, they sell Macbooks.

(Just my guess on what they're thinking).

 

[Barrett2]

Entirely possible.

From Apple's POV, I'm sure they don't want to go anywhere near multi-tasking until it can be done in a way that's impossibly easy to understand.

Just doing multi-tasking isn't what's hard, it's doing it "right" from Apple's POV that's going to delay or destory multi-tasking on these devices.

.

How would multitasking be hard to design? Couldn't they just have tabs on the bottom of the screen, or a three-finger horizontal swipe to go between application pages?

 

[Keylime]

How would multitasking be hard to design? Couldn't they just have tabs on the bottom of the screen, or a three-finger horizontal swipe to go between application pages?

Asking users to manually manage resources by closing unneeded applications is completely undesirable and leads to a bad user experience.

Their current implementation makes it so they don't need to worry about users opening a ton of apps and then complaining when their device runs out of batteries in a heartbeat as well as running like a piece of shit.

I don't think Apple will ever have multi-tasking as something that is on by default for this very reason. It just makes for a poor user-experience. We take it for granted because we're used to doing these activities, but trust me, their current implementation is actually brilliant. Adding multi-tasking is something they had to reject from the get-go in order for it to work.

 

[otake]

Almost completely useless for me. Totally not worth price of admission. Shame.

 

[entremet]

Good job ... you just won dumbass post of the thread.

Congrats!

Um. Did you forget how Apple just destroyed the walkman line. I do agree that Sony makes great CE devices, but they're a hardware company and totally missed the whole software/hardware convergence aspect that is now extremely important in most CE devices.

I think Tobor was talking about the whole package, not just if the devices technically better, which most Sony products are, however they have been crippled by bad IU. The original Sony Online Music store was a disaster. And the PSP, which was purported to be an iPod killer by Newsweek has been successful, but have you tried browsing the web on that thing, creating functional playlists on it. It fails from a software point of view.

Its obvious that Sony has a wider range of CE devices, but comparing apples to apples, no pun intended, Apple has bested Sony in many areas. Again, Apple doesn't make TV, Cameras, and the like.

 

[Barrett2]

Asking users to manually manage resources by closing unneeded applications is completely undesirable and leads to a bad user experience.

Their current implementation makes it so they don't need to worry about users opening a ton of apps and then complaining when their device runs out of batteries in a heartbeat as well as running like a piece of shit.

I don't think Apple will ever have multi-tasking as something that is on by default for this very reason. It just makes for a poor user-experience. We take it for granted because we're used to doing these activities, but trust me, their current implementation is actually brilliant. Adding multi-tasking is something they had to reject from the get-go in order for it to work.

You know, right about now I would want to reply by saying thats a very pessimistic view to have, and consumers are much more savvy than you think; but this morning I saw a statistic that most Americans believe NASA uses 25% of the Federal Budget. With that in mind, forget multi tasking and memory usage; I guess im' more surprised people don't chew on their iPhones.

 

[Hari Seldon]

I just wish this thing was released so I can just impulse buy the fucker and not have to justify why I actually need one.

 

[Mr. Dobalina]

LOL, Kevin Rose

How to love the iPad
Kindle DX 9.7” - $489.00
—
1024x768 color display upgrade - $1.00
Internet browsing upgrade - $1.00
iPod w/16GB upgrade - $1.00
Run iPhone apps upgrade - $1.00
1Gz A4 processor upgrade - $1.00
H.264 720P HD video upgrade - $1.00
Bluetooth upgrade - $1.00
10hr battery upgrade - $1.00 - Not sure on this one, it's a downgrade, but whatever
Multi-touch display upgrade - $1.00
Digital compass/accelerometer - $1.00
—
Your cost: iPad $499.00

It will replace my Kindle, and 3rd party development will extend the device to do things we can’t even dream up right now. I, for one, welcome our new iPad overlord - but then again I’m a card carrying fanboy.

 

[thirty]

if this fails apple can just blame the economy, not the ipad's lack of usb ports, 3g, price point, multitasking, flash support, expandable memory etc.

 

[teruterubozu]

I just wish this thing was released so I can just impulse buy the fucker and not have to justify why I actually need one.

The genius of Apple marketing at work!