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Apple iPad revealed

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Hawkian said:
I have never seen this argument made before.

I have to imagine that the reason I have never seen it made before... is that it is insane.


Too late. We don't have a choice anymore. Not including flash on this tablet and never including it in Mobile Safari is not going to keep it from being used.

Besides... I don't think any number of drawbacks can keep the benefits from outweighing them. For any amount of problems Flash is both practical and useful.
Click to expand...
Have you used Flash on a Mac? You'll see many use the same argument I'm using now that it crashes incessantly and is slow as a duck.
 
giga said:
Have you used Flash on a Mac? You'll see many use the same argument I'm using now that it crashes incessantly and is slow as a duck.
Click to expand...

Ohhh... so macs should get better at running flash?

Which side are you arguing on? o.o
 
:lol

Wow.

:lol

Really? Who is going to sit in front of the TV and use something like this? I mean.. it doesn't serve any purpose that the Iphone doesn't already serve.. except it is larger and doesn't make phone calls.

To me it seems halfway between the iphone and a laptop/netbook. But I'm not sure why I would need something between those two?

The MS concept was at the very least extremely unique and seemed to be a 3rd pillar of personal computing. something completely different. Not sure if I would need something like that either, but it at least seemed to be doing something new.
 
giga said:
What?
Click to expand...

Okay.

Here's your argument:

On Apple products, Flash makes everything slow down and crash. Thus the solution is to just not include support for it at all.

Here's my argument:

On Apple products, Flash makes everything slow down and crash. Thus the solution is making support for it better and eventually including it on every device they make with a browser.
 
Hawkian said:
Okay.

Here's your argument:

On Apple products, Flash makes everything slow down and crash. Thus the solution is to just not include support for it at all.

Here's my argument:

On Apple products, Flash makes everything slow down and crash. Thus the solution is making support for it better and eventually including it on every device they make with a browser.
Click to expand...
How does one make the "support for it better"? That's not in Apple's hands.

reilo said:
Like what?
Click to expand...
See the daring fireball link I posted.
 
Ignatz Mouse said:
As I said on the other thread, this is the announcement that will separate Apple Fans from Apple Fanboys.

Unless the price is magical, this thing is a huge dud.
Click to expand...


apple_air.jpg





I was hoping Apple would really release some kind of paradigm shifting product that would push everyone forward. This is just a lateral move that might succeed, but only because of marketing.
 
Y2Kev said:
Wow, AT&T. Haters owned :lol
Click to expand...

Huuuh?

reilo said:
Like what?
Click to expand...

Apparently instability and the complete downfall of the world wide web.

giga said:
How does one make the "support for it better"? That's not in Apple's hands.
Click to expand...

It's partially in Apple's and partially in Adobe's... right? How is it not?

Flash runs great on my PC, and though still unreleased, the Android flash plugin seems to run great. Why is it impossible to make it run well on OSX/iPhone OS?
 
I can't believe the photoshops got it right. Looks like shit.

I've already got an iPhone, why would I want something 4 times the size that does the same things?
 
Ferrio said:
Nope. Since it isn't E-ink. Hell my coworker was like "I can get this for my husband instead of kindle" To which I had to explain the whole point of a ereader.
Click to expand...

Can you explain it to me too ? :lol I would love to buy Kindle but it's so dam expensive and I really would like to know why. I know the E-ink tech is expensive but why it's better than LCD ?
 
I saw the initial price and said "hmm... not bad" then I saw the 3G price and laughed out loud. Are you kidding me? What could possibly justify a 130 dollar increase for a 3G antenna? If anything it should be subsidized with a contract to ATT.

Also, I'm almost certain "unlimited" means 5GB, which would be easy to breeze by if you're downloading movies and such on this thing. Heck, even music and regular web use could accomplish that.
 
e-Ink and related technologies actually look- to the naked eye- almost identical to paper. If you see them side by side you'll immediately realize the difference.

They also draw something like 80% less battery power than powering an LCD screen.
 
Fuzz Rez said:
Can you explain it to me too ? :lol I would love to buy Kindle but it's so dam expensive and I really would like to know why. I know the E-ink tech is expensive but why it's better than LCD ?
Click to expand...
It doesn't strain your eyes and the battery lasts a million times longer.
 
PSGames said:
I mean seriously. The MS Courier looks way more interesting than this.

500x_courier8.jpg
Click to expand...
Agreed. I hope MS follows through. I also hope Apple's pad has a built in lever of some kind that can act as a stand.
 
Someone mentioned in the other thread about how cool this would have been if it could replace a universal remote control such as Harmony and others. I would have purchased it just for home automation. Esp if I could use that a fully funcitonal web browser. Yes, that includes flash.

Instead I got:
No camera
No 3G
No multi tasking
No Flash
No phone
No e-ink for ebooks. Regular LCD screen.
 
I am out. I don't get this thing and I am just waiting for them to upgrade the CPU in the 13" MBP.

It seems like a flop in the making to me, but I said the same thing about Avatar, which I aslo didn't get, and look how that turned out. But this isn't for me. I would rather just have my iPhone with me at all times and then whip out my laptop when that isn't enough. Can't see when I would need this.
 
Fuzz Rez said:
Can you explain it to me too ? :lol I would love to buy Kindle but it's so dam expensive and I really would like to know why. I know the E-ink tech is expensive but why it's better than LCD ?
Click to expand...
The difference between an E-Ink screen and an LCD screen is similar to the difference between a printed photograph and one of those LCD photo display/frame things. E-Ink is a reflective viewing technology... it doesn't have its own light source. Light from your surroundings reflects off the black, white, and grey spots and the screen and to your eyes, just like viewing a book. LCD, on the other hand, is an active viewing technology, meaning the light source is in the screen itself.

At first consideration you might think the self-lit LCD screen is obviously better. However, this is not the case for activities like reading. Eyes are better fit for scanning over and looking for small details (the essentials of reading) in normal, reflective objects (practically everything you see around you) versus in self-lit objects (fires, the sun, television and LCD computer screens, and so forth). Therefore reflective viewing causes less eye strain during long activities like reading a book. For this reason, for most people, reading a book in paper form is much easier than reading the same text for hours on a computer screen. E-Ink is equivalent to paper- light bounces off the screen and to your eyes, just like paper. A second benefit is it uses much, much less power than an LCD or other technologies. It only consumes power when changing images, and it can retain an image (like the page of a book) for hours, days or weeks with no loss of battery charge.
 
Ultimo hombre said:
Someone mentioned in the other thread about how cool this would have been if it could replace a universal remote control such as Harmony and others. I would have purchased it just for home automation. Esp if I could use that a fully funcitonal web browser. Yes, that includes flash.

Instead I got:
No camera
No 3G
No multi tasking
No Flash
No phone
No e-ink for ebooks. Regular LCD screen.
Click to expand...

Wait, no multi tasking? I think you're wrong there...
 
a bit underwhelmed by the presentation, but overall I am interested. my iphone has already eliminated any and all desire for a netbook, but at the same time there is definitely occasion where I'd like something bigger... in essence it seems apple made something that fits my bill perfectly... maybe that was their intent (iphone/touch owners who find their netbook itch scratched but on occasion want a larger screen/more capabilities).

Considering the $499 model. Enough memory to toss a handful of movies and dozen or so hours of music on there, but cheap enough for me to not hem and haw over it.

would definitely be hardpressed to spend more than that though. The 3G models are all priced pretty high, even though a no contract data plan is really fucking slick.
 
JasonMCG said:
I don't understand the niche the iPad is trying to fill. Seems like an unnecessary product.
Click to expand...

I'm drawing a blank here too, and I was really reserving my opinion until today.

It runs a mobile OS... but is way too big for a pocket or one-handed use.
It has a large, bright slate style screen... but capacitive, so no styli.
It has the same form factor as an eBook reader... but no e-Ink.
It has a powerful web browser... but only Wifi, and still no flash.
It runs 100,000 iPhone apps... designed to be played on a 3.5 inch screen with only a finger or thumbs.
it has a "dreamy" widescreen, touch-typing friendly keyboard... but can only be laid flush onto a table.

An extremely low price point would certainly change my opinion as it stands now, because it does have that Apple factor and I bet you will eventually be able to do (unsanctioned) awesome stuff with it that makes me go "wow," but I have a feeling I won't be smiling when I hear what it costs.

Edit: Oh. Yeah. Not smiling.

It does have 3G built-in though, then? Or does the hardware actually differ based on cost...?
 
giga said:
See the daring fireball link I posted.
Click to expand...
Good read. As someone that actually does, has, and will continue to develop using ActionScript 3/Flash, I can only provide my insight as to why Flash can cause crashes -- and it is the same reason that a lot of desktop applications crash, too: Shitty developers developing shitty code.

You would be amazed at how many giant web development firms have their Flash developers make their web products using timeline animation and ActionScript 2.0. Equally, you would be amazed at how many big clients (ie, Intel) will require the firms they hire to develop in ActionScript 2 while using timeline animations. Reason being for the lot of them? Actionscript 8 and lower has a higher penetration than Actionscript 9 or 10 -- by 0.1%!

http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html

So the problem with Flash is systemic: performance woes because of a penis-measuring contest between Adobe and Apple, companies requiring their projects to be developed in deprecated code to save money, and large web firms unwilling to utilize, hire, or encourage the use of proper development guidelines when it comes to Flash, thus leading to shoddy Flash projects.

What's worse, and what people seemingly do not talk about in the same vein which I think they should, JavaScript (AS and JS are both based on EMCAScript), is vulnerable to the same issues. I just find it odd that Flash is being singled out when if done properly, it is an extremely powerful tool that provides an experience that conventional HTML, CSS, and JavaScript simply cannot.
 
Like I said in the other thread, I think it's a very pretty device, but I absolutely do not need that. No need to spend the cash on it either. My iPhone + MacBook Pro are just fine considering it doesn't provide anything different.
 
Evlar said:
The difference between an E-Ink screen and an LCD screen is similar to the difference between a printed photograph and one of those LCD photo display/frame things. E-Ink is a reflective viewing technology... it doesn't have its own light source. Light from your surroundings reflects off the black, white, and grey spots and the screen and to your eyes, just like viewing a book. LCD, on the other hand, is an active viewing technology, meaning the light source is in the screen itself.

At first consideration you might think the self-lit LCD screen is obviously better. However, this is not the case for activities like reading. Eyes are better fit for scanning over and looking for small details (the essentials of reading) in normal, reflective objects (practically everything you see around you) versus in self-lit objects (fires, the sun, television and LCD computer screens, and so forth). Therefore reflective viewing causes less eye strain during long activities like reading a book. For this reason, for most people, reading a book in paper form is much easier than reading the same text for hours on a computer screen. E-Ink is equivalent to paper- light bounces off the screen and to your eyes, just like paper. A second benefit is it uses much, much less power than an LCD or other technologies. It only consumes power when changing images, and it can retain an image (like the page of a book) for hours, days or weeks with no loss of battery charge.
Click to expand...

It is much more than that. E-ink, and the new qualcomm tech, do not require energy to keep the pixel its color/grayscale. Once the pixel changes state it stays in its changed state without more energy required. All other display techs require constant energy input. This has huge implications for battery life.

Edit. Nevermind, you covered that at the bottom, sorry.
 
The amount of people thinking this device is an e-book / e-ink device is shocking.


StoOgE said:
Really? Who is going to sit in front of the TV and use something like this? I mean.. it doesn't serve any purpose that the Iphone doesn't already serve.. except it is larger and doesn't make phone calls.

To me it seems halfway between the iphone and a laptop/netbook. But I'm not sure why I would need something between those two?
Click to expand...
Tablet PCs have existed for over a decade now. So surely there's a market for one with Apple's OS and design ?
 
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