Starchasing
Member
So according to the web masses ... Flash will never ever die? are you guys serious? the web changes so fast and you expect flash to live forever?
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Apple iPad revealed
- Thread starter ClovingWestbrook
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Flying_Phoenix
Banned
Burger said:
I admit saying the whole Suite was going a bit too far. That saying there's so much software out there I wouldn't doubt that there's something that matches Adobe's stuff.
Not to sound like a troll but I guess using Flash CS4 left a real bad taste in my mouth.
The mainstream will care if you can't watch Hulu, Netflix, and other web video on the iPad though. The design of the product seems made for those kind of applications.border said:
In a way, iPad is kind of like a mobile Apple TV when it comes to media playback. Go through iTunes or don't play. Now, evidently this is totally acceptable on an iPod Touch or iPhone, so maybe it'll fly with iPad too. But I think people will notice because they're going to be expecting something closer to laptop/netbook abilities from a device of this size rather than iPhone abilities.
It'll be interesting to see the reactions when clueless mainstreamers get their new iPads and learn about the restrictions firsthand.
Battersea Power Station
Member
No, according to them, there's no harm in supporting Flash now, even if it dies later on, which they equate to running two OSes on one machine.Starchasing said:
However, that's a bit like saying that you'll accept someone in a society once he shows himself to integrate with said society.
Your arbitrary generalization of "web masses" notwithstanding, Flash has already been around forever, by tech standards. So has the web, which you claim changes so fast, but which has really relied on basically the same underlying software technologies for decades now.Starchasing said:
Starchasing
Member
Teddman said:
someone else will provde the content without flash sooner or later.. thats the spirit of the internets
do you remember nba.com imposing the use of silverlight???
Starchasing
Member
kaching said:
thanks to IE ... but we dont have to suffer that anyore
Particle Physicist
between a quark and a baryon
Teddman said:
Doesn't Netflix use silverlight?
Starchasing
Member
kaching said:
Because you dont know that HTML is an evolving standart... we are up to HTML 5 which does the same thing as flash but only so much better
Schlep said:
Yep.
Multitouch is a fantastic innovation, and we haven't seen it stretch its legs yet. The two best examples are on the iphone (tiny screen) and Macbook trackpads (tiny area). iphone is mostly single finger dragging with the occasional pinch, and trackpads add a couple of basic swipes.
on a 10" screen you have the freedom to do a lot more. Proper two handed gestures - twisting becomes practical whereas I find it very tricky on an iphone. Simply by having more space you really open up the possibilities for multitouch in a way that iphone just can't.
"Just a big iPod touch" is being used as a stick to beat it with. I see that as the best thing about it
Gio_CoD said:Sorry, I know I said I was leaving, but I wanted to respond to this.
Yes, I do see value in the device, but as somebody who already owns an iPhone, I don't see enough difference in the products to be considering purchasing this. It's gonna sound like I'm just talking shit, but if it had Flash support and multitasking, it very well might have gotten me to buy it. I've got two netbooks already because I love the idea of a small, internet-enabled device with a long battery life. Hell, it's why I love my iPhone (in spite of the Flash thing.But, for me, this iPad just doesn't seem to have a clearly defined market. The cool things it does I am already doing on my iPhone, and then the cool things my iPhone can't do.... this can't do either. I have to open one of my netbooks again.
I'll put it this way. If I didn't have an iPhone and you gave me the choice to have an iPod Touch or an iPad for free (taking money out of it), I'd choose the iPod Touch every single time. I think the iPod Touch (and iPhone) is an amazing, amazing product. I'm not some Apple hater. I think they knocked the ball WAY the fuck out of the park with the iPhone. They completely turned the cellular phone market (and the way apps are purchased) on its head. When my contract with AT&T is up, I'm getting whatever the newest iPhone is at that time even though I already have a 3G. The iPad just seems like a giant missed opportunity to me.
Anyway, that's it. Now I'm done.
You know, you have some good points here, but you only speak for yourself. Obviously we all think we speak for 'the majority', and I guess there's no predictor there, so we just have to wait and see. Either way it's going to be interesting, with people yelling and screaming the whole way.
I'm going to agree more or less that it doesn't have a highly defined market. But I would also say the same thing about the iPhone and iPod touch, and perhaps even the iPod. The fact that they weren't speaking to a defined market, but to everyone all at once is exactly why they were successful. The same criticism were fired towards those products. For the iPhone people were going, "It's too expensive! It doesn't have stuff for businesses? Who is this for?", the iPod touch: "It's just an iPhone without the phone! Who needs internet on their iPod? Who is this for?", the iPod: "It's an Mp3 player! Who needs to carry around all their music? Who is this for?". Admittedly, the iPod was a defined market, yet it still broke out of that. I think the point is you don't NEED a defined market to be successful, and often having a highly defined market means just that. The MacBook Air has a highly defined market. The AppleTV has a highly defined market.
While I don't think you're crazy for wanting an iPod touch over an iPad, but isn't that the same argument as wanting a netbook over a laptop? Yes, some people do want that, but don't you think some people want a laptop over a netbook? And I don't mean for power apps like photoshop, but for more screen real estate and general capability. The iPhone OS is very powerful, and the handheld form factor is just a part of what it is capable of.
Yes, Apple knocked it out of the park with the iPhone. The iPad is a logical extension of that. I admit a lot of the appeal in the iPhone is that it is what it is in your pocket - that's mind-blowing. But the appeal for the iPad is it is that - but in your living room. A lifestyle internet/media tablet. Fair enough, it doesn't have some features such as flash or multitasking, but FLash doesn't define the internet as a whole. It's a big part, but the internet is still the internet if flash isn't there.
I think it's fine if you think they are deal breakers for you. Only you can say what you want or need. They're not deal breakers for me. I think there will be solutions down the road, but also it doesn't impede my function in any supercritical way.
The real question is whether the general public - the buyers - think this way or not. We'll see!
Teddman said:
Except the netbook has a garbage interface and doesn't make a very good eReader.....it's not the sort of "lean back" device that Apple is pushing. I don't think Hulu and Netflix are really dealbreakers for anyone, or at least not so much that they'd make the step down to a cheap netbook. Compromising the entire user experience for 2 websites (one of which requires a subscription) does not strike me as something people are willing to do.
Like I said, it just smells like the years of iPod naysaying - "Oh but this my Archos/Nomad/iRiver player has an FM tuner and it supports OGG Vorbis files and it can play Divx!" Nobody cared, for whatever reason.
It will be interesting to see what happens when other decent tablets come out, but I don't think some cheap Asus netbook is really an alternative for the iPad's audience.
Mr. Dobalina
Banned
Question:
Does the iPhone Safari work with with YouTube HTML5 beta?
Does the iPhone Safari work with with YouTube HTML5 beta?
Mr. Dobalina
Banned
border said:
Unless they are going with Android or some other OS that is suited to mobililty, the result is all too predictable. If it's just a "Windows 7 Tablet" then they will not have mass appeal because the apps, including the browser, are not designed to the intended use.
This is the advantage the iPad has - from hardware THROUGH software, everything is thought out from the perspective of the intendide use of the device. This is almost never the case with Windows tablets.
Starchasing said:
Flash is not evolving? It's on version 10! :lol
Flash also has the advantage of rapidly evolving, adobe doesn't have to get anyone to agree to support a specific codec or file format, they can put in whatever they want. <video> is great and all, but it's still browser dependent and not supported on IE. Firefox doesn't want H.264, Safari doesn't want ogg. When all these competing companies get their shit together (good luck waiting) maybe we can talk about HTML5 doing "everything" flash does but better.
Starchasing
Member
I don't know how this relates to what others in here have said, but... I showed my mother the iPad video and she said, "Think I'll buy that when it comes out. Was looking at a laptop before, but this is more convenient. I hate those little nubs and touchpads they use on laptops. Just tapping on something on-screen is much easier for the internet and email."
So yeah, I think this is going to sell like fucking crazy - and not only to the Apple faithful.
So yeah, I think this is going to sell like fucking crazy - and not only to the Apple faithful.
Byakuya769
Member
Vinci said:
I could see my mom perhaps buying one as well, though she's never had much of an interest in a lap top.. this may suit her fancies. Besides, she can't type any faster than she could using a physical qwerty over the soft one.
However, the worry for apple and its investors should be whether or not the number of people like our mothers is DECLINING, and if they are fashioning a device more suited to a shrinking demographic. As the use of computers become more and more demanded at the work place, I could see more and more traditionally older consumers not feeling comfortable taking the productivity losses inherent with the iPad.
Byakuya769 said:
Depends on what they actually feel they need. Beyond that, apps will greatly expand the usefulness of the product. Beyond that, it's actually at a reasonable price-point to start with. I think people still don't recognize how much the keyboard and mouse detract from the experience of using a computer for many people. And I don't think the iPad will solely be of interest to people like our mothers, but to anyone who feels that their necessities in regards to a computer are such that this offers them what they need without all the tech that they don't.
I said before I felt this was sort of a lazy move on Apple's part, but after seeing her response I'm starting to wonder if this is actually an elegant solution to a long-standing issue with computers of all types.
It isn't a productivity device...why they showed iWorks is beyond my wildest dreams. They should have just shown some way to stream video and music from your existing PC (the way it works currently using iTunes). Then do something common like listen to music and then decide to compose an e-mail. I'm pretty sure they will do commercials like the early iPhone commercials that actually showed how you'd do something on the device.
I would take the opposite side of the argument. The number of people who are used to touch screen and simple OS's is increasing, especially on either end of those of us who are now approaching 30 to those approaching 40. My personal time is pretty evenly split between my MBP and my iPhone. I'm sitting here with three monitors surrounding me (for work) for proof of my hardcoreness. :lolByakuya769 said:
Also, get ready for a shocker. The time of the traditional computer in enterprise work has hit its apex. I work for a company that I feel rather uncomfortable divulging, but we've taken what used to be a manual process for hundreds of thousands of people in this country, and turned it into something that's both automated and can be accessed simply by using a web browser.
This isn't an isolated incident. What do you think people in sales would rather use, a laptop where they have to hit the space bar to go to the next slide, or an iPad (or other tablet) where they can hold it during the presentation and use a virtual laser printer or circle and underline things as they go through the slides. I felt the collective jaw drop of sales people (and college professors!) nationwide when that stuff was shown.
We're not there, and we won't be there for quite a while. But the idea of moving a company like something to the iPad where everyone instantly knows how to use it, it's incredibly portable but can be docked to a keyboard, and there's virtually zero need for IT calls...that's pretty tantalizing.
see5harp said:
I see iWork as something 3rd party developers can look at when they're designing interfaces for their (productivity) apps. It's something from Apple they can look at and say "hey the way they did it in Keynote solves the problem we're having pretty well" or they can look at what Apple has done with the interface in those apps and take the good parts and improve upon the parts that can be done better.
Not to mention it will be great to be able to do edits and changes on documents sent to you while you're checking email on it rather than having to move over to a laptop or desktop to make changes.
Buckethead
Banned
Still arguing eh?
Anyway, this just in for those who live in chicken coops, Colbert's wife is one fine hen.
Anyway, this just in for those who live in chicken coops, Colbert's wife is one fine hen.
Starchasing
Member
Kalbi said:
yeah thats another thing about single tasking that is better than multi
Reginald P. Linux
Banned
rezuth said:
This makes no sense. Explain?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Support for 1024 by 768 pixels with Dock Connector to VGA Adapter; 576p and 480p with Apple Component AV Cable; 576i and 480i with Apple Composite CableFlo_Evans said:
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/01/ipad-still-coming-to-verizon/
Silicon Alley Insider reports that it has received information from Clayton Morris of FOXNews.com claiming that Apple and Verizon are still in talks to bring the iPad to Verizon's wireless network. An Apple-Verizon partnership for the iPad had been the subject of many analyst claims and rumors in the months leading up to the device's introduction, and many observers were surprised to see that only AT&T was announced as a cellular data provider for the iPad.
Apple is working with Verizon on a version of its iPad tablet, despite Apple only announcing an AT&T partnership, according to Fox News Channel's Clayton Morris, who just spoke with a Verizon source.
No additional details are given, although Morris is reportedly in the process of preparing an article for publication on FOXNews.com.
Morris has become a relatively frequent commenter on Apple and the iPad, having claimed confirmation of Apple's media event as early as late December (albeit off by one day) and noting that it would be focused on the "mobility space". His source was incorrect, however, in its claims that the media event would include discussion of iPhone OS 4.0 and iLife 2010. Just days before the event, Morris' source claimed that both AT&T and Verizon were in last-minute discussions to offer service for the iPad.
Silicon Alley Insider reports that it has received information from Clayton Morris of FOXNews.com claiming that Apple and Verizon are still in talks to bring the iPad to Verizon's wireless network. An Apple-Verizon partnership for the iPad had been the subject of many analyst claims and rumors in the months leading up to the device's introduction, and many observers were surprised to see that only AT&T was announced as a cellular data provider for the iPad.
Apple is working with Verizon on a version of its iPad tablet, despite Apple only announcing an AT&T partnership, according to Fox News Channel's Clayton Morris, who just spoke with a Verizon source.
No additional details are given, although Morris is reportedly in the process of preparing an article for publication on FOXNews.com.
Morris has become a relatively frequent commenter on Apple and the iPad, having claimed confirmation of Apple's media event as early as late December (albeit off by one day) and noting that it would be focused on the "mobility space". His source was incorrect, however, in its claims that the media event would include discussion of iPhone OS 4.0 and iLife 2010. Just days before the event, Morris' source claimed that both AT&T and Verizon were in last-minute discussions to offer service for the iPad.
3.2 SDK reveals some tidbits of what's to come...
Support for Kerberos and NegotiateV2 HTTP authentication schemes
CoreText framework for advanced typography support
A simplified API for formatted text
Built-in regular expression engine now accessible to developers
Much richer Movie player API
Richer CoreAnimation properties (layers can have shadows and effects; effects can be rasterized for speed)
Text layers for optimized drawing of formatted text
Simplified Beizer path drawing API (formerly a private API)
User-accessible filesystem and built in view controllers for accessing them (note: applications that access files directly and not through controller probably won't be approved)
Simplified gesture recognizer API (available in 3.0 as a private API; some of us have been using this already
Simple CoreGraphics PDF-creation API
Ability for applications to add custom items to the select/cut/copy/paste menu (similar to what my ActionMenu does)
Spell-checker in text fields and web views with support for multiple languages, grammar checking (English-only), address book integration, user added words and SDK access (via AppleSpell; similar to what my Inspell product does)
Custom keyboard views; hardware keyboard (possibly via USB: USBKeyboardLayouts.plist or Bluetooth?)
Support for querying attached screens (AppStore-permitted external display support?)
Simplified zoom support for standard scroll views
SpringBoard maintains orientation
Support for hardware media keys (not sure what this is)
Ability to set the desktop background (private)
The beginnings of file upload support in Safari
iPad codename: Wildcat ([[UIDevice currentDevice] isWildcat])
Legacy code from iPhone 1.x is still around
(if stripped out, could save some RAM for memory-constrained devices)
Swipe and flick gestures on keyboard
Split-view and popover styles
Handwriting keyboard is being prototyped
"Book" view controller
"Peripheral views" are being prototyped (not 100% sure what this is, but appears to be plugins that hardware vendors can inject into all applications?)
Possible integrated Java Virtual Machine (in the public frameworks path, but only for Simulator?)
Support for DMG and other disk image formats (in the public frameworks path?)
Printer support is being prototyped
Speech Synthesis is mentioned in public headers (is currently a private API)
Slideshow integration with iLife
USB Host for transferring images is being prototyped (perhaps Wildcat only? supports PTP only currently)
Ads are being tested for the integrated maps application
MobileStorageMounter (ability to mount mobile storage?)
Included dictionaries: Apple Dictionary, New Oxford American Dictionary, Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus, Shogakukan Daijisen, Shogakukan Progressive English-Japanese Japanese-English Dictionary, and Shogakukan Ruigo Reikai Jiten
http://modmyi.com/forums/ipad-news/...dwriting-usb-keyboards-video-calls-found.html
Support for Kerberos and NegotiateV2 HTTP authentication schemes
CoreText framework for advanced typography support
A simplified API for formatted text
Built-in regular expression engine now accessible to developers
Much richer Movie player API
Richer CoreAnimation properties (layers can have shadows and effects; effects can be rasterized for speed)
Text layers for optimized drawing of formatted text
Simplified Beizer path drawing API (formerly a private API)
User-accessible filesystem and built in view controllers for accessing them (note: applications that access files directly and not through controller probably won't be approved)
Simplified gesture recognizer API (available in 3.0 as a private API; some of us have been using this already
Simple CoreGraphics PDF-creation API
Ability for applications to add custom items to the select/cut/copy/paste menu (similar to what my ActionMenu does)
Spell-checker in text fields and web views with support for multiple languages, grammar checking (English-only), address book integration, user added words and SDK access (via AppleSpell; similar to what my Inspell product does)
Custom keyboard views; hardware keyboard (possibly via USB: USBKeyboardLayouts.plist or Bluetooth?)
Support for querying attached screens (AppStore-permitted external display support?)
Simplified zoom support for standard scroll views
SpringBoard maintains orientation
Support for hardware media keys (not sure what this is)
Ability to set the desktop background (private)
The beginnings of file upload support in Safari
iPad codename: Wildcat ([[UIDevice currentDevice] isWildcat])
Legacy code from iPhone 1.x is still around
(if stripped out, could save some RAM for memory-constrained devices)Swipe and flick gestures on keyboard
Split-view and popover styles
Handwriting keyboard is being prototyped
"Book" view controller
"Peripheral views" are being prototyped (not 100% sure what this is, but appears to be plugins that hardware vendors can inject into all applications?)
Possible integrated Java Virtual Machine (in the public frameworks path, but only for Simulator?)
Support for DMG and other disk image formats (in the public frameworks path?)
Printer support is being prototyped
Speech Synthesis is mentioned in public headers (is currently a private API)
Slideshow integration with iLife
USB Host for transferring images is being prototyped (perhaps Wildcat only? supports PTP only currently)
Ads are being tested for the integrated maps application
MobileStorageMounter (ability to mount mobile storage?)
Included dictionaries: Apple Dictionary, New Oxford American Dictionary, Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus, Shogakukan Daijisen, Shogakukan Progressive English-Japanese Japanese-English Dictionary, and Shogakukan Ruigo Reikai Jiten
http://modmyi.com/forums/ipad-news/...dwriting-usb-keyboards-video-calls-found.html
They're ALL evolving, but they've also all been around for quite awhile. That's the point. You're being utterly facetious about Flash, given that it's built to work with even OLDER technologies.Starchasing said:
Possibly, though with all the bickering going on around how HTML5 implements inline video, seems like it will have a charmed life for at least a few years to come.border said:
Pristine_Condition
Member
Buckethead said:
Um, that's his daughter, dood.
And why don't you take a seat right over there.....?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie said:
I want to be clear that I didn't hear or see this via any of the SDK or NDA'd materials, but one thing I've heard secondhand is that the VGA adapter actually supports 1280x768, perhaps it was an easy win for Apple to say you can project 720p video from it.
Flying_Phoenix
Banned
I've never used 3G on a proper device before, so I'm curious.
How fast is 3G compared to Wifi?
How fast is 3G compared to Wifi?
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