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[jts]

I've never used 3G on a proper device before, so I'm curious.

How fast is 3G compared to Wifi?

It depends on a number of factors, such as what type of 3G are we talking about, how strong is the signal, and the wi-fi also varies depending on what internet connection is attached to it.

But generally speaking wi-fi wins. Way lower latency and the internet connection is potentially faster and more stable.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

Hey iTunes 9.0.3 just popped up on software update.Pretty sure this will be the new version we saw on the iPad. Anyone already install it today?

 

[VanMardigan]

3.2 SDK reveals some tidbits of what's to come...

Support for Kerberos and NegotiateV2 HTTP authentication schemes
CoreText framework for advanced typography support
A simplified API for formatted text
Built-in regular expression engine now accessible to developers
Much richer Movie player API
Richer CoreAnimation properties (layers can have shadows and effects; effects can be rasterized for speed)
Text layers for optimized drawing of formatted text
Simplified Beizer path drawing API (formerly a private API)
User-accessible filesystem and built in view controllers for accessing them (note: applications that access files directly and not through controller probably won't be approved)
Simplified gesture recognizer API (available in 3.0 as a private API; some of us have been using this already
Simple CoreGraphics PDF-creation API
Ability for applications to add custom items to the select/cut/copy/paste menu (similar to what my ActionMenu does)
Spell-checker in text fields and web views with support for multiple languages, grammar checking (English-only), address book integration, user added words and SDK access (via AppleSpell; similar to what my Inspell product does)
Custom keyboard views; hardware keyboard (possibly via USB: USBKeyboardLayouts.plist or Bluetooth?)
Support for querying attached screens (AppStore-permitted external display support?)
Simplified zoom support for standard scroll views
SpringBoard maintains orientation
Support for hardware media keys (not sure what this is)
Ability to set the desktop background (private)
The beginnings of file upload support in Safari
iPad codename: Wildcat ([[UIDevice currentDevice] isWildcat])
Legacy code from iPhone 1.x is still around (if stripped out, could save some RAM for memory-constrained devices)
Swipe and flick gestures on keyboard
Split-view and popover styles
Handwriting keyboard is being prototyped
"Book" view controller
"Peripheral views" are being prototyped (not 100% sure what this is, but appears to be plugins that hardware vendors can inject into all applications?)
Possible integrated Java Virtual Machine (in the public frameworks path, but only for Simulator?)
Support for DMG and other disk image formats (in the public frameworks path?)
Printer support is being prototyped
Speech Synthesis is mentioned in public headers (is currently a private API)
Slideshow integration with iLife
USB Host for transferring images is being prototyped (perhaps Wildcat only? supports PTP only currently)
Ads are being tested for the integrated maps application
MobileStorageMounter (ability to mount mobile storage?)
Included dictionaries: Apple Dictionary, New Oxford American Dictionary, Oxford American Writer's Thesaurus, Shogakukan Daijisen, Shogakukan Progressive English-Japanese Japanese-English Dictionary, and Shogakukan Ruigo Reikai Jiten

http://modmyi.com/forums/ipad-news/...dwriting-usb-keyboards-video-calls-found.html

That shouldn't be a list of things to come, virtually every netbook does many of those things already. I'm convinced that MS has a shorter way to go on user interface than Apple does on matching a typical Windows feature set.

Zune HD and Windows 7 are HUGE steps for MS in terms if interface and design and I believe the HP Slate will be closer to the device many posters here were hoping to get from Apple than the iPad.

Even Google has made bigger strides with Android than Apple has in the same time frame with their iPhone OS. I can't wait to see what Apple has in store for the next Iphone, because the competition has closed the gap and the iPad demonstrates more complacency rather than the breakthrough innovation of Iphone when it was released.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Pretty sure this will be the new version we saw on the iPad.

You really think this.

 

[cjdunn]

3.2 SDK reveals some tidbits of what's to come...
<snip>

Wow, that's a lot of additions for a +0.1 version.

 

[numble]

That shouldn't be a list of things to come, virtually every netbook does many of those things already.

This is a list of things to come to the iPhone OS.

 

[cjdunn]

You really think this.

He does, ignoring the fact, among others, that Apple doesn't call it iTunes, but still iPod.

 

[The_Inquisitor]

...Damnit I was really hoping for a UI overhaul. My apologies I was wrong. Ah well...

 

[Schlep]

That shouldn't be a list of things to come, virtually every netbook does many of those things already.

Can this be the last thing said about netbooks in this thread? We've talked about almost nothing but netbooks and Flash for the past 79 pages, and I'm honestly tired of them.

 

[StopMakingSense]

I've never used 3G on a proper device before, so I'm curious.

How fast is 3G compared to Wifi?

The main difference is latency. The time it takes to get a response to a request can be quite longer than the same on Wifi. And if the page you are loading is puling info from different servers, than that can just bog it down quite a bit. In terms of raw bandwidth speed, the speed will be either faster or slower, depending on your residential connection.

 

[giga]

That shouldn't be a list of things to come, virtually every netbook does many of those things already. I'm convinced that MS has a shorter way to go on user interface than Apple does on matching a typical Windows feature set.

Zune HD and Windows 7 are HUGE steps for MS in terms if interface and design and I believe the HP Slate will be closer to the device many posters here were hoping to get from Apple than the iPad.

Even Google has made bigger strides with Android than Apple has in the same time frame with their iPhone OS. I can't wait to see what Apple has in store for the next Iphone, because the competition has closed the gap and the iPad demonstrates more complacency rather than the breakthrough innovation of Iphone when it was released.

How, have you seen WinMo 7? I know for sure that the Zune HD OS doesn't match the feature set and capabilities of iPhone OS 3.x, regardless of its pretty interface.

As for a Windows 7-based slate, I don't think consumers will catch on due to it (and all the software that it can utilize) being designed for a mouse and keyboard.

 

[silverbullet1080]

How, have you seen WinMo 7? I know for sure that the Zune HD OS doesn't match the feature set and capabilities of iPhone OS 3.x, regardless of its pretty interface.

As for a Windows 7-based slate, I don't think consumers will catch on due to it (and all the software that it can utilize) being designed for a mouse and keyboard.

Win7 looks aesthetically at least to be very touch friendly. Especially the taskbar.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Depends. I usually get 1-1.5 megabits/second on 3g on the iphone. Wifi on iphone seems to top out at 5Mbps. I wonder if the ipad will be able to use more bandwidth?

The main difference is latency. The time it takes to get a response to a request can be quite longer than the same on Wifi. And if the page you are loading is puling info from different servers, than that can just bog it down quite a bit. In terms of raw bandwidth speed, the speed will be either faster or slower, depending on your residential connection.

It depends on a number of factors, such as what type of 3G are we talking about, how strong is the signal, and the wi-fi also varies depending on what internet connection is attached to it.

But generally speaking wi-fi wins. Way lower latency and the internet connection is potentially faster and more stable.

Ah I see. Hopefully 4G will make it as good as Wifi. I've heard it's 5 times faster. Well according to Sprint commercials (not the most reliable source).

 

[kaching]

Wifi on iphone seems to top out at 5Mbps.

Not on the 3GS. Can't speak for any other model at this point, but the 3GS definitely uses more than 5Mbps on
my wifi network. I don't think it's restricted by anything other than the signal quality.

 

[Raistlin]

Sure, the individual programs are, but html5 is not proprietary. We would not have to wait on Adobe to create a new version of Flash if Microsoft were all of the sudden to rewrite Windows from scratch.


But in this case, it's an awful lot of power to give one company. Say tomorrow Adobe said, "You know what, Apple? We're pissed at you for not including Flash in the iPad. So guess what...we are no longer going to update Flash for Mac, and Flash 10.1 content will be incompatible with previous versions."

Unlikely? Obviously. Point is, though, that it could happen, and it's too much to let one company control almost all video content on the web.

True, though Flash isn't really proprietary anymore. swf and flv are open, Adobe has never prevented anyone from making flash IDE's, and they will send companies flashplayer source code if they'd rather implement their own. There are GNU flash players and plugins.


http://blogs.adobe.com/flashplatform/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnash

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swfdec (older one)




A lot of people don't realize how many things actually use flash. I bet 99% of the posters here have no idea that a number non-flash (ie, console, PC, etc) games actually use flash for things like their user-interfaces, video, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaleform_gfx

The Scaleform GFx kit includes:

* Scaleform CLIK (Common Lightweight Interface Kit) - easily customizable Flash UI component framework, including buttons, list boxes, drop down menus, sliders, trees and windows, architected by gSkinner.com.

* Scaleform AMP (Analyzer for Memory and Performance) - tool used to analyze memory and performance of Flash content inside a game or 3D application environment.

* Scaleform Lobby - prebuilt, customizable Flash-based multiplayer lobby, chat and buddy list interface samples.

In addition to Scaleform GFx, the company provides two add-on modules:

* Scaleform Video - fully integrated video codec for Flash Video workflow support (currently powered by CRI Movie).

* Scaleform IME - fully integrated Input Method Editor (IME) for Asian chat support.

Check out the partial game list ... some pretty heavy hitters in there http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaleform_gfx#Some_of_the_Games_Using_Scaleform



Also, look at what engines have integrated the above tech:

Integrated Technology Partners

Game Engines

* Epic Unreal Engine 3
* Crytek CryEngine 2 and CryEngine 3
* Emergent Gamebryo and LightSpeed
* Sony PhyreEngine
* BigWorld
* HeroEngine
* Trinigy Vision Engine
* Instinct Technology
* Touchdown Entertainment

Other Middleware

* CRI Movie
* FMOD
* Audiokinetic Wwise
* GameSpy
* Raknet

 

[VanMardigan]

Win7 looks aesthetically at least to be very touch friendly. Especially the taskbar.

Not only that, but the very brief snippets we've seen of the upcoming tablets show how pliable Win7 is, with multi-touch, gestures, etc. all with the compatibilty and features of a Windows operating system.

We'll see, but I think the iPad kept the goalposts within striking distance of competitors like MS & Google, unlike the sea change many thought Apple would deliver.

 

[giga]

Win7 looks aesthetically at least to be very touch friendly. Especially the taskbar.

Everything on the taskbar should be good for touch use except for the notification area. But after that, you run into problems..

Software just hasn't been designed for big, inaccurate fingers on a small 10" display.

 

[Raistlin]

Yeah, I have a Core Duo 2ghz MacBook Pro. I think it was the first version of the MBP line. I can barely watch video at 360p, let alone high definition. The computer is almost four years old, sure, but there's no reason for this to be the case. Just for reference, I can watch the 720p Avatar trailer full screen without a single hiccup. 1080p is a bit framey, but I wouldn't expect this system to be able to run it.

hyperbole? or is your computer broke? HTML5 video certainly runs better, but your computer should not be having issues like that.

The laptop I'm on is a Pentium M with 1GB RAM running XP. I certainly do not have issues running 360p, let alone 480p. 720p is a bit framey, but if I let it buffer it's not bad (just some tearing)

 

[bionic77]

Judging by the amount of hits and views this thread has had in less than a week I get the feeling Apple is on to something (though I still am going to get a new MBP for myself this summer and not the iPad).

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

Judging by the amount of hits and views this thread has had in less than a week I get the feeling Apple is on to something (though I still am going to get a new MBP for myself this summer and not the iPad).

Its quite possible that the iPad will become the Wii of netbook/casual computing? It may not do as many things as the other netbooks and may not appeal to the true computing folks out there but that isn't Apple's market for this device.

 

[jts]

Judging by the amount of hits and views this thread has had in less than a week I get the feeling Apple is on to something (though I still am going to get a new MBP for myself this summer and not the iPad).

Yep. This will be another massive hit, no doubt.

3 or 4 days after being announced, everyone and their mother already knows what an iPad is. Just check the reactions at the Grammy Awards.

Apple TV this is not.

 

[Raistlin]

How is Flash competition for Apple in any way?

Apple doesn't control open web standards.

While that's all well and good for video, the argument is that conveniently for apple, there isn't a complete or standardized solution for vectors.

I'm arguing in support of open web standards, and Apple just happens to agree just like Mozilla, Opera, Google, and even Microsoft now also agree.

And I'm glad for it. The problem is that several features of Flash don't have one currently.

Also, isn't MS thumbing their nose to HTML5 right now?

 

[Tobor]

Yep. This will be another massive hit, no doubt.

3 or 4 days after being announced, everyone and their mother already knows what an iPad is. Just check the reactions at the Grammy Awards.

Apple TV this is not.

You have to wonder how many negative blog posts that one Colbert Grammy appearance negated. 100? 1000? Once the advertising kicks in, and the demo units land at the Apple Stores, it's all over.

 

[D4Danger]

Also, isn't MS thumbing their nose to HTML5 right now?

I wouldn't say that. Microsoft responded openly to HTML5 on the WHATWG mailing list in August 2009.

http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2009Aug/0389.html

They also support quite a few of the new HTML5 features in IE8 just not the headline stuff like <video> yet.

 

[ClovingWestbrook]

You have to wonder how many negative blog posts that one Colbert Grammy appearance negated. 100? 1000? Once the advertising kicks in, and the demo units land at the Apple Stores, it's all over.

Agreed. As I stated a few posts back, this truly reminds me of the Wii. Everybody including me thought that the Wii would ultimately fall back to 2nd or 3rd place in terms of sales. After all, it didn't have the capabilities of the 360/PS3 regarding media and online options. It didn't have the high graphics capabilities. It lacked many of the high quality multiplats that the other two have. Yet here we are, it has sold 60+ million world wide in about 3 years. Moms, dads, grandma and grandpas have bought and received them as gifts. Nintendo saw an opening and went for it. Apple has the same appeal and has made this device easy to use. If someone has fingers and has ever used an iPhone or any touchscreen phone this will be a breeze.

 

[VanMardigan]

Comparing it to the Wii certainly would explain a lot of my own feelings towards the device, plus a lot of what I'm reading in terms of complaints about it's limitations.

Hopefully, just like the Wii, there will be viable alternatives and I think we saw a glimpse of that at CES, when we dismissed a bunch of them thinking Apple would blow them away.

 

[Xzior]

Everything on the taskbar should be good for touch use except for the notification area. But after that, you run into problems..



[IMG]

[IMG]

[IMG]

Software just hasn't been designed for big, inaccurate fingers on a small 10" display.[/QUOTE]
And as you all know you can't redesign software, it's one of the few things in the world that is totally and utterly impossible.

 

[Raistlin]

Because you dont know that HTML is an evolving standart... we are up to HTML 5 which does the same thing as flash but only so much better

Holy shit, that is so wrong :lol

 

[giga]

And as you all know you can't redesign software, it's one of the few things in the world that is totally and utterly impossible.

Welcome to the discussion, sarcasm is fun. No one said you couldn't redesign software, it's just not that easy to redesign an entire keyboard/mouse based OS. Requires years of development to just get a shipping product out there with a subset of features of your current desktop OS.

 

[Raistlin]

3.2 SDK

Handwriting keyboard is being prototyped

Wait, huh?

 

[Schlep]

hyperbole? or is your computer broke? HTML5 video certainly runs better, but your computer should not be having issues like that.

The laptop I'm on is a Pentium M with 1GB RAM running XP. I certainly do not have issues running 360p, let alone 480p. 720p is a bit framey, but if I let it buffer it's not bad (just some tearing)

No exaggeration whatsoever. Now hopefully you know why most Mac users have absolutely no qualms about dumping Flash on the iPad, and why Jobs isn't bending on the issue for Adobe. :lol

 

[Tobor]

Comparing it to the Wii certainly would explain a lot of my own feelings towards the device, plus a lot of what I'm reading in terms of complaints about it's limitations.

Hopefully, just like the Wii, there will be viable alternatives and I think we saw a glimpse of that at CES, when we dismissed a bunch of them thinking Apple would blow them away.

There are certainly going to be alternatives, as there should be. That said, I think Apple has more of a head start than you realize. Tweaking Windows 7 is not the answer to growing this market. The supposed weakness of using the iPhone OS is going to be Apple's greatest strength over time. They can always build in more complexity as they need it, but the real heavy lifting(the interface), is essentially complete.

 

[tino]

And as you all know you can't redesign software, it's one of the few things in the world that is totally and utterly impossible.

I actually really wish someone make it. By "it" I mean a whole sale rip off of the iPhone interface that can run on the XP or w7.

I don't care if they copy the "sense" UI or just copy Apple blatantly; I don't care if its some Chinese bootleg company who do it; I don't care if they steal open source code. I just want someone to make it.

No I don't think MS is capable of doing it. They are too busy tying in their new software to their other un-related features to create "synergy" between them.

 

[Fletcher]

I think this thing is kind of stupid, but I will say that I became a little excited thinking about reading comic books on it. Once it drops in price and has a USB port, I'm in.

 

[VanMardigan]

Welcome to the discussion, sarcasm is fun. No one said you couldn't redesign software, it's just not that easy to redesign an entire keyboard/mouse based OS. Requires years of development to just get a shipping product out there with a subset of features of your current desktop OS.

Microsoft has already experimented with physical inputs through its Tablet devices (I'm using a Vista Table right now) and it's touch interfaces. HP has also been working with Windows on touch interfaces for a while, they have a line of desktop PC's that use touch, and the Slate teaser showed multi-touch, etc. Vista just wasn't the right OS for this, the tablet I have is just too slow and heavy to be truly useful as a Tablet, but it's not like they are starting from scratch, and like I pointed out, they have already made great strides in terms of user interface and design with Win7 and ZuneHD. Like everyone else, they were caught with their pants down by Apple, and they certainly haven't mobilized as quickly as Google, but I think there was a lot of promise at CES that was overlooked because a great deal of people expected Apple to create a new paradigm with the iPad. In reality, the Slate turned out to be much closer to what Apple eventually revealed, and can be a more worthy alternative (and indeed a much better option for some) than anyone thought it would be from the brief demo at CES before we had all seen the iPad.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Not on the 3GS. Can't speak for any other model at this point, but the 3GS definitely uses more than 5Mbps on
my wifi network. I don't think it's restricted by anything other than the signal quality.

Oh really? Wonder if I can trade my 3g in for an s yet.

 

[Raistlin]

No exaggeration whatsoever. Now hopefully you know why most Mac users have absolutely no qualms about dumping Flash on the iPad, and why Jobs isn't bending on the issue for Adobe. :lol

I'd simply rather it just get improved, and not used for video

 

[lowrider007]

Man I want one of these badly, the idea that I can have this one and a half pound ultra thin flat touch screen tablet that is just lying around on the sofa or on my bed, kitchen table etc, that I can just pick up with ease and just touch the screen and it's on instantly surfing the web, checking my emails, reading the latest headlines of BBC News website within seconds and then toss back down on the coffee table or couch and just forget about it until needed again is perfect.

This is the future in imo, the form factor to me is a revolutionary step forward, yes we've had tablets before but nothing like this, not the size, the battery life and the very simple intuitive interface that practically anyone could pick up and use, the idea that this could very well be the beginning of tablets becoming the norm in the average household is very appealing to me, it's something I wanted for years, it makes the internet ergonomic.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

What do people want a USB port on this for?

 

[Tobor]

What do people want a USB port on this for?

I'm assuming for flash drives and stuff, but since there's no accessible file system it's pretty pointless. Sounds like the wireless sharing will take car of why I need.

 

[giga]

Microsoft has already experimented with physical inputs through its Tablet devices (I'm using a Vista Table right now) and it's touch interfaces. HP has also been working with Windows on touch interfaces for a while, they have a line of desktop PC's that use touch, and the Slate teaser showed multi-touch, etc. Vista just wasn't the right OS for this, the tablet I have is just too slow and heavy to be truly useful as a Tablet, but it's not like they are starting from scratch, and like I pointed out, they have already made great strides in terms of user interface and design with Win7 and ZuneHD. Like everyone else, they were caught with their pants down by Apple, and they certainly haven't mobilized as quickly as Google, but I think there was a lot of promise at CES that was overlooked because a great deal of people expected Apple to create a new paradigm with the iPad. In reality, the Slate turned out to be much closer to what Apple eventually revealed, and can be a more worthy alternative (and indeed a much better option for some) than anyone thought it would be from the brief demo at CES before we had all seen the iPad.

I have no doubt MS can create great interfaces like they did with the Zune HD, but the HP was overlooked because they didn't show a thing about it. And to be honest, my confidence isn't too high on HP's capability of designing a full fledged touch screen interface that can be independently used as an operating system. I would prefer Microsoft do that.

 

[mrkgoo]

What do people want a USB port on this for?

I never figured this out myself. They always just want a port. I assume for general expansion, but what do people normally mount on a USB port:

Mouse: Like this makes sense on an iPad.
Storage: Like this makes sense on an iPad - you have no accessible file system. Even if there were an app for it. What are you going to do with it? Transfer songs and movies? Yeah right. Maybe a possible file system for third party apps? Even that is being dealt with.
Camera: Ok, that's what the connection kit is for. Yeah, not the best to have it as an add-on, but that's part of what it takes to get to $499, as well as you get a slightly more flush form factor. And the obvious, Apple can charge you for it (it's clear Apple see you bringing this to show photos just taken on your camera).

I dunno what else people intend to use it for. An LED night light?

I guess it DOES provide options for generic expandability for proprietary things, but the doc port does that already.

In the end, I think the USB port simply represents expandability, but really, most common uses have a solution or simply aren't in Apple's environment. Everything is dealt with via the dock connector.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

I want a usb port if they don't have an elegant solution to move files to and from the iPad to be used with iWork.

 

[Raistlin]

Storage: Like this makes sense on an iPad - you have no file system. What are you going to do with it? Transfer songs and movies? Yeah right.

According to the 3.2 SDK:

"User-accessible filesystem"

 

[LiveFromKyoto]

I never figured this out myself. They always just want a port. I assume for general expansion, but what do people normally mount on a USB port:

Mouse: Like this makes sense on an iPad.
Storage: Like this makes sense on an iPad - you have no file system. What are you going to do with it? Transfer songs and movies? Yeah right.
Camera: Ok, that's what the connection kit is for. Yeah, not the best to have it as an add-on, but that's part of what it takes to get to $499, as well as you get a slightly more flush form factor. And the obvious, Apple can charge you for it (it's clear Apple see you bringing this to show photos just taken on your camera).

I dunno what else people intend to use it for. An LED night light?

External drive for backups? Printer for all those wonderful things you're supposed to do on Pages & Numbers? Microphone? There are tons of valid uses for a USB port.

 

[mrkgoo]

According to the 3.2 SDK:

"User-accessible filesystem"

I know about that, but that is already dealt with by syncing (I assume) I'm not sure what a USB flash drive adds to that experience. Does the file system become visible, and you drag files to the USB drive? Isn't that what Apple are trying to move away from? I guess you could have in iWork "click to copy to USB drive" (or load firm I guess). It's still going to have to be application specific.


Atually, one thing I would've like for a USB port is to simply be able to sync your iPhone to it. But then, it doesn't operate like a computer, so I don't know why you would really want that. Maybe for emergency charge :lol

 

[Raistlin]

External drive for backups? Printer for all those wonderful things you're supposed to do on Pages & Numbers? Microphone? There are tons of valid uses for a USB port.

Also, plenty of music peripherals (assuming they make garageband for it)

 

[mrkgoo]

External drive for backups? Printer for all those wonderful things you're supposed to do on Pages & Numbers? Microphone? There are tons of valid uses for a USB port.

My point wasn't so much that it wasn't useful, but rather Apple are going to provide an alternative solution for all that. It already has a mic. And probably a mic input too. They are developing a file sharing system into iWork apps (and sync to your desktop).

I admit printer would be nice, but again, I assume they just want everything wireless, and anything wired can be dealt with by dock port expansion. Again, I know it's in elegant, but there's probably a solution for basic stuff.

 

[blu]

What do people want a USB port on this for?

beats me. the last thing i want on a tablet, the-whole-frame-is-a-handle device is a usb port - i can see a pile of ruined fash sticks right there. the USB's port place is in the darn cradle, and in the form of a multi-port hub. not on the side of the device. there the most i'd take is one or two SD reader slots, and not just any but such that take the card fully in.

 

[Raistlin]

I know about that, but that is already dealt with by syncing (I assume) I'm not sure what a USB flash drive adds to that experience. Does the file system become visible, and you drag files to the USB drive? Isn't that what Apple are trying to move away from? I guess you could have in iWork "click to copy to USB drive" (or load firm I guess). It's still going to have to be application specific.

I like the idea of syncing, but what happens if you take the iPad somewhere else?