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Are you expecting a mid gen refresh this gen?

Are you expecting a mid gen refresh?


  • Total voters
    328

Hoddi

Member
Not really expecting it from Sony but I think Xbox is set up to become more of a rolling iterative platform. Two consoles isn't much of a series in my opinion.
 
A potential PS5 Pro console can also leverage Zen 4 to offer native PS3 support thanks to AVX-512 which offers a massive performance advantage for PS3 emulation. We might have to wait for the PS6 on that one though.
It's likely that Sony isn't emulating PS3 because Nvidia RSX and not because of the SPE's.

base PS5 could do it fine, and I doubt they would make exclusive PS3 BC an exclusive selling point for PS5 Pro.
Switch 2 is almost a definite, an Xbox refresh is likely because they want to edge out PS5, which will force Sony to do the same.
The Xbox refresh might be incremental, smaller form factor and better IO. Think Xbox One vs Xbox One S, marginally better specs but way better console altogether.
 
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Black_Stride

do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
we are in for more tiny near meaningless partial implementations of RT in near static environments because that is the max the consoles can do and even tools like Lumen can`t make RT more budgetfriendly but instead just offer scalability.
Metro Exodus says otherwise.
That was pretty damn early in the generation.
And 4A isnt even that big a studio yet they managed to completely change their pipeline and make RTGI fully viable on consoles.

You think Naughty Dog/Guerilla/SantaMonica with the full power of the ICE team behind them couldnt get a performant implementation of Raytracing to work on a PS5?

Hell let The Coalition get their hands on UE5.x and Lumen and they will for sure get it to run right.

So many devs havent even had a chance to really stress these consoles but you can attest to these consoles weakness and inability to do glorious visuals?
Please mate.

Atleast watch some GDC 2022 talks and see how good these devs are at making basically everything more performant.
Just cuz Lumen or game x has trouble right now doesnt mean shit, bottlenecks at the beginning of a gen are practically pointless when devs can completely change their pipelines to get things to work.
 

Haggard

Member
Metro Exodus says otherwise.
Nope....
Metro EE has RT GI and RT reflections which both suffer from a "meh" sample count and the "infinite bounces" of the RT aren`t even real time making this unusable for anything besides a very specific scenario. It´s also far from handling "all lightsources".
You think Naughty Dog/Guerilla/SantaMonica with the full power of the ICE team behind them couldnt get a performant implementation of Raytracing to work on a PS5?
RT is not new...at all. There is no "performant implementation". That is something you don`t seem to understand.
Making RT performant with current hardware means one thing, and one thing only: Scaling down and covering that up as good as possible.
So no, no dev on this earth can make this performant on the hardware budget we have without sacrificing most of what makes RT worth it in the process.


Hell let The Coalition get their hands on UE5.x and Lumen and they will for sure get it to run right.
You should read up on what lumen actually is and does.....

So many devs havent even had a chance to really stress these consoles but you can attest to these consoles weakness and inability to do glorious visuals?
Please mate.
Depends on the definition of "glorious visuals". Static setdressing, has the potential to get near photorealistic this gen, anything dynamic, not so much.

Atleast watch some GDC 2022 talks and see how good these devs are at making basically everything more performant.
Just cuz Lumen or game x has trouble right now doesnt mean shit, bottlenecks at the beginning of a gen are practically pointless when devs can completely change their pipelines to get things to work.
again...rt is not new and the only thing that developers can optimize here is filling in the information they lose when scaling down the functionality.
When NVIDIA presented RTX the "miracle" wasn`t the RT functionality by itself, it was the denoiser.....
 
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rofif

Member
Yes. It I wish no.
Pro consoles are a scam and market segregation.
Slims are fine.

Adoption of pro consoles is what will lead to 1k usd console every year like phones
 
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SNG32

Member
Honestly with how the gaming situation is now is it even necessary? Like majority of games are still being playable on PS4 especially third parties, it's hard to keep PS5's on the shelf because the demand is still high. The tech on the PS5 and Series X isn't even being fully utilized yet. By the time they would even consider a mid gen refresh they might as well drop a PS6 or Series X2. Like the PS4 pro came when PS4 was 3 years in we are almost 3 years in with these consoles and yet to see any groundbreaking games to show us what this gen is about. Also with Sony releasing games on PC now they can cover that area now without releasing new hardware if needed.
 
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what would Sony even refresh? They cant make enough of what they currently have
Die shrinks allow to get more chips out of each wafer. Though newer processess cost more, so it has to be cheaper for them too to target it. And if you can make an actual slim, a pro with the same, still huge housing is possible. Same applies for Series SX. I think the refresh for slim is far more important due to unusual supply constraints than offering higher specs to some buyers willing to upgrade for minimal gains.
 

DaGwaphics

Member
I'm going to vote yes. Couldn't really say when or how they go about doing it, but the same pressures that existed before exist now.

Sony even admitted that the PS4 Pro was more about trying to stop users from exiting their walled garden for PC more than about 4k. That's a situation that isn't going to change. It's harder to stick with the same hardware for 8 or 10yrs today without sending more users to PC. Even with both MS and Sony including PC in their approach, I'm sure their most profitable customers are still on console. We'll either keep seeing the mid-gen systems from here on out, or generations will get shorter by a good margin (with a long cross-gen phase).

It will be interesting to contrast the different approaches. Do we get more expensive Pro systems ($800 - $1k), does MS just roll out updated versions of the series consoles (a gen 2 so to speak) and completely replace the existing systems?

Personally, I'd vote for the typical cost reduction systems and a more expensive pro unit. Not sure what MS could call theirs with the S and X already both in use. Xbox Series XXL
 
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Draugoth

Gold Member
Mainline consoles are already 499$ each. An update to Zen 5 would make a pro console around 699U$

Zen 2 is already a pretty good architeture because it can receive software updates that increase peformance, unlike Jaguar from PS4/XONE
 
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Hunnybun

Member
I think there's good reason to do it given all the fidelity modes already baked in to most games - it'd be pretty simple to just turn them into 4k60 instead of 4k30. I'd certainly buy one for that.

The question is, why did they happen last time? Apparently to deter people from moving to cheap PCs. Well that will hardly be happening this time. So logically, the need isn't there.

But I've still got a bunch that they'll happen.
 

kyussman

Member
It starting to feel like it's going to be 2024 until next gen is actually fully underway,still feels like we are in this shitty limbo state.....mid-gen consoles could be like 2025/6.
 

rofif

Member
You pay more for better hardware. You must declare every premium product a scam then...
And market segregation would also only apply if there were pro-exclusive games......
Market segregation is also people playing the same game on a potato and proper hardware.
Don't be naive sheep
 

DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
Nobody cares about 8K TVs, so the answer is no....

Mid-gen last gen were made because 1080p TVs disappeared from stores in favor of 4K TVs

It's not happening again
Do people care about 120 hz? Or about 4K 60 Hz?

Most console games nowadays force you to choose between performance or fidelity. It’s not exactly hard to imagine the value of more powerful hardware.

Framing it as only being about 8K is bullshit.
 

Bigfroth

Member
With supply restraints still and Sony increasing the PS5's price hell no lol. This generation went off the tracks a few miles back, should just regroup limp to the finish line, and start fresh. :messenger_beaming:
train discover GIF
 

93xfan

Member
Nobody cares about 8K TVs, so the answer is no....

Mid-gen last gen were made because 1080p TVs disappeared from stores in favor of 4K TVs

It's not happening again
I feel the same. Ask these unhappy people whining about power. Just enjoy what you have for a bit
 
Do people care about 120 hz? Or about 4K 60 Hz?

Most console games nowadays force you to choose between performance or fidelity. It’s not exactly hard to imagine the value of more powerful hardware.

Framing it as only being about 8K is bullshit.

If you want top power always, you have a choice: it's called PC....

Console are not about having the top hardware every year....

They are supposed to last for a generation (5-8 years)
 
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DonkeyPunchJr

World’s Biggest Weeb
If you want top power always, you have a choice: it's called PC....

Console are not about having the top hardware every year....

They are supposed to last for a generation (5-8 years)
Okay?

I’m saying I don’t see reason why “Pro” mid-gen refreshes would be any less likely/warranted this gen than they were in the previous gen.

Whether or not you personally like the idea of a mid-gen upgrade is a separate question.
 
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64bitmodels

Reverse groomer.
I also think sony will make a more cost efficient model because 500 dollars for a video game console is kind of pushing it. For xbox it kinda unlikely since they already have the series s
 
Okay?

I’m saying I don’t see reason why “Pro” mid-gen refreshes would be any less likely/warranted this gen than they were in the previous gen.

Whether or not you personally like the idea of a mid-gen upgrade is a separate question.

I explained why: the TV market completely changed around 2014 because of HDMI 2.0, 1080p TVs were basically discontinued in the premium and medium segment replaced by 4K TVs

Do you think a new TV standard will replace everything in the next 2 years? 8K has been around for years as Samsung pushed for it...

Nobody cares as there's no content available in 8K... Everything is upscaled
 
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It starting to feel like it's going to be 2024 until next gen is actually fully underway,still feels like we are in this shitty limbo state.....mid-gen consoles could be like 2025/6.
I miss Crytek so much; Video game technology from a software pov is not the same without them in the mix. I will personally lower my expectations with 'next gen'. Forget hardware, you got companies like Epic Games right now sitting on the technology (seen in the Matrix demo) and they will not budge off Fortnite to push the line in technology with a retail videogame. I can guarantee you if Crytek was still around they would of not only announced a lot of technology (if not better technology) seen in the Matrix demo, but they would of also already shipped the tech into a retail video game on these consoles.

Companies like Epic Games is going to keep milking us with tech demos, fucking ass.
 
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odhiex

Member
Both, they are essentially like PC components now.

Looking forward to the next iterations of Steam Deck, that's what I wanted instead of new consoles right now.
 

TheUsual

Member
I think we all expect hardware revisions to the base systems but as time passes, I don't think we're going to see a Pro version of these things.

The Pro and One X we're definitely enthusiast level products, but is there still a viable market for something similar with the current world we're in today?

Even if we're in for a long generation, will it be worth it?
 
Do people care about 120 hz? Or about 4K 60 Hz?

Most console games nowadays force you to choose between performance or fidelity. It’s not exactly hard to imagine the value of more powerful hardware.

Framing it as only being about 8K is bullshit.
8k is coming this gen anyway, whether people here today want it or not, and sony/MS will support it one way or another.

my next TV will be 8k (~100" or more), will probably purchase it in a few years, and if i need to buy the "pro" version of a console or whatever to get optimal 8k results, i will.

genuinely excited to play games @native 8k via PC.
gonna re-play dark souls 1 @8k w/ an internal res of 16k+ via DSfix
 

BlackTron

Member
I do expect a smaller revision of PS5 as we have every Playstation since the very first one. I'm waiting for this to jump in.

I don't feel as strongly about a pro model. I think the chances are low, if it does happen it will not be soon and it will be a very long gen.
 

Fbh

Gold Member
Probably.

Normally I'd say for sure. Reactions and adoption rate of pro models were pretty good last gen and people buying from scalpers these last 2 years shows there's a market willing to pay extra. Besides I think it will just take one of them (Sony or Microsoft) to make a pro model for the other to respond with one too as they won't want to be have this big gap in power with their main competitor.

At the same time though, everything is getting more expensive, people are dealing with tighter budgets, we just saw one of the first major price increases of a console ever and almost 2 years in availability is still an issue. So I could also see them skipping the pro models in favor of more budget friendly options, or the whole gen getting longer, with pro models arriving in 2025 and no proper new consoles until 2028.
 
8k is coming this gen anyway, whether people here today want it or not, and sony/MS will support it one way or another.

my next TV will be 8k (~100" or more), will probably purchase it in a few years, and if i need to buy the "pro" version of a console or whatever to get optimal 8k results, i will.

genuinely excited to play games @native 8k via PC.
gonna re-play dark souls 1 @8k w/ an internal res of 16k+ via DSfix
8k ain't coming anytime soon.... And I hope you're ready to drop 5 figures for even a half decent 100+ panel capable of running 8k lol

Most games aren't even native 4k.... Believe me I'm as big a fan of resolution as anyone, but the difference from 1080p to 4k is multitudes more noticeable than 4 to 8k

Lol@8 to16, hope your screen is attached to your head and can be pulled down to be 2 inches away
 

Wooxsvan

Member
with a competent cpu this go around and ram requirement not increasing at the rate it has in past gens ya definitely. will likely be the longest gen ever
 
Yes. It I wish no.
Pro consoles are a scam and market segregation.
Slims are fine.

Adoption of pro consoles is what will lead to 1k usd console every year like phones
How exactly are pros a scam compared to slims, and how the even further fuck is it market segregation?

Is it a scam and market segregation when new video cards release?

Yeah bro, a mid gen console refresh (even though I don't think it's happening) will lead to yearly 1k consoles LOL

Get a fucking grip dude, no need to get hysterical about something as mild as mid gen refreshes that probably won't happen
 
I think we all expect hardware revisions to the base systems but as time passes, I don't think we're going to see a Pro version of these things.

The Pro and One X we're definitely enthusiast level products, but is there still a viable market for something similar with the current world we're in today?

Even if we're in for a long generation, will it be worth it?

If you insist on 60 fps, yes. If no then it depends.

Like we're talking 8 Zen 4c cores, maybe double or triple the graphics cores plus higher clocks and 16 GB GDDR7. For $699.
 

sachos

Member
I voted both but i would expect them late 2024 or 2025. And as some user pointed out, it would be cool if they go all out on 600-800 "real pro" machines.
 
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