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[TheExodu5]

There's a demo.

Yes, though there were many reports that the full version was largely improved from the demo.

 

[Emitan]

Glitches and accuracy issues for pirates? There's more negative word of mouth for your game.

 

[TheExodu5]

As a person who have spent at least $150,000 (Or even as much as 200,000, it's just a rough estimate) in games, movies and music over the last few years, I can safely say it's not a big deal. It is a fact that I buy less games now even though I don't copy or download anymore (Less time for hobbies). Several studies done lately shows that those who pirate the most also spend the most money over time (Deviations will occur of course)- And it is also a fact that all of those who tried to connect in this game is not equal to a lost sale each. Deny it as much as you want, it's still a fact that there are other factors, nuances and contexts involved under all the scare tactics of the industry and the old fart politicians.

O_O

Yeah, that is one good example of why it's a bad idea.

My philosophy regarding anti-piracy measures is this: treat pirates as potential customers, and don't treat customers as potential pirates.

 

[Fuu]

I wouldn't be surprised even if they're really 100 different people. However, I would love to see a breakdown of countries based on the IP addresses. How many of those people are actually within Bohemia's "sales range"?

That's what I always wonder too but unfortunately they never do an IP breakdown in these things and it's pretty relevant data imo.

 

[domlolz]

There's a demo.

Yes but I think exodu5 was trying to say that having a buggy/power hungry game is what impacted their sales anyway, before the piracy or whatever


The op just reeks of desperation as well, "LOOK, LOOK GUYS, PIRACY IS AS BAD AS I SAID, LOOK, QUICK, LOOOOK"

 

[Clear]

If the devs said that for every 3 legitimate buyers, 100 unique IPs using the pirated version attempt to connect i could believe their number. As its worded it seems like a deliberate attempt at obfuscation.

These quotes are from an article, not a press release (follow the OP's link back to PCGAMER), so if there's any question of misrepresentation shouldn't that charge be levelled at the writer / publisher of the piece, not the subject?

<irony>
Oh no, of course, its the big bad industry and their co-conspirators in the gaming press out to oppress us with their lies and disinformation!

Curse them for their greed in wanting people to actually *gasp* PAY for their products, and not publically going "Nah, its ok to rip us off, I and my staff have our solid gold houses already"!
</irony>

Joking aside, what do you expect them to say?

 

[DGRE]

Arma devs:

Create a game that will run on something other than the best hardware.
Create a game that doesn't use the most unintuitive control scheme ever designed by man.

People might not be so afraid to purchase legitimate copies by that point.

Also, don't demonize pirates, that's not going to get you any sales. Glitches and accuracy issues for pirates? There's more negative word of mouth for your game.

Again, joke post?

Why pirate the game if a) you can't run it or b) it's not fun to play?

 

[TheExodu5]

Again, joke post?

Why pirate the game if a) you can't run it or b) it's not fun to play?

Word on the internet is that it's hard to run and difficult to play. Pirate downloads the game because they are too unsure of their purchase.

I'm not pretending that most pirates would have purchased the game, however these factors would likely contribute to the piracy rate.

The fact that they passive aggressively gimp the pirated version is also going to increase negative word of mouth.

 

[inky]

My philosophy regarding anti-piracy measures is this: treat pirates as potential customers, and don't treat customers as potential pirates.

That is Valve's philosophy as well: Don't lock your games over tons of DRM, show pirates that it is miles better to own them than to steal them.
I'd say it has worked out for them; you rarely get people complaining about how draconian Steam is as DRM. I guess for other companies it is OK to take the measures they want to protect their products, but these interviews always seem to imply that were it not for piracy their games would be multimillion dollar successes, when it so happens that it is usually the games that sell the most the ones that are pirated the most as well.

 

[King_Moc]

Yes but I think exodu5 was trying to say that having a buggy/power hungry game is what impacted their sales anyway, before the piracy or whatever

Didn't hurt Crysis.

 

[obonicus]

Word on the internet is that it's hard to run and difficult to play. Pirate downloads the game because they are too unsure of their purchase.

I really don't think people should be trying to rationalize game piracy on this forum, even if they themselves don't pirate games. Especially since the forum policy seems to steer closer to 'if you pirate, you're a piece of shit'.

 

[TheExodu5]

Didn't hurt Crysis.

It probably did. Crysis reached a million sales only after having been heavily discounted (~$5 sale).

However, I'm sure Crytek got a metric ton of money from NVidia for the game anyways. They didn't get to be as big as they are through game sales alone.

I really don't think people should be trying to rationalize game piracy on this forum, even if they themselves don't pirate games. Especially since the forum policy seems to steer closer to 'if you pirate, you're a piece of shit'.

It's not rationalizing piracy, it's examining the issue from both sides of the equation to get the full picture.

No one is being constructive by saying "lalala piracy is bad lalala". Instead of complaining, why don't you (the developer) try to minimize its impact on your business? Create a model that benefits paying customers. Do not passive aggressively gimp the pirated copy of your game, thus spreading negative word of mouth. Do not make a niche game so inaccessible and demanding that the majority of your audience will be too afraid to purchase your game.

 

[obonicus]

It's not rationalizing piracy, it's examining the issue from both sides of the equation to get the full picture.

Examining the issue from the side of the pirates is rationalizing it. Remember, no one's entitled to play a game. 'Trying before I buy' has been used several times as a defense on this forum, always with poor results. There isn't a demo, you can't run the game, the controls are weird, none of this entitles you to experience the game without paying for it.

No one is being constructive by saying "lalala piracy is bad lalala".

What is there to gain from being constructive, here? I mean, do you disagree that piracy is wrong, full stop? As seen from the world of goo guys, it's not a matter of barriers -- sell the game at 'name your price' values, and a lot of people will still rather pirate it than give you a buck.

 

[Truth101]

Haha, at the title change.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Algebraic!

 

[M3d10n]

That is Valve's philosophy as well: Don't lock your games over tons of DRM, show pirates that it is miles better to own them than to steal them.
I'd say it has worked out for them; you rarely get people complaining about how draconian Steam is as DRM.

Valve's approach is to provide a DRM that enhances the legit copy, as opposed to one that tries to cripple the pirated one. Replicating online-based features, like server browsers, friend lists and automatic updates is much harder for hackers then disabling intentional game-crippling measures.

It makes sure that the pirated versions are a hassle to play and update, while the legit version "just works". With draconian DRM it's often the opposite.

 

[TheExodu5]

Examining the issue from the side of the pirates is rationalizing it. Remember, no one's entitled to play a game. 'Trying before I buy' has been used several times as a defense on this forum, always with poor results. There isn't a demo, you can't run the game, the controls are weird, none of this entitles you to experience the game without paying for it.

To be clear, I am absolutely not using this as a defense. In fact, check my Steam games list if you like:

http://steamcommunity.com/id/ex/games?tab=all

I own both Arma and Operation Arrowhead.

I am simply, as I said, giving the issue a proper analysis.

 

[obonicus]

To be clear, I am absolutely not using this as a defense. In fact, check my Steam games list if you like:

I know, I'm not accusing you. I just don't agree with that argument at all. Pirates may use those excuses, but in truth they just don't feel like paying for games. I only have anecdotal evidence, but someone close to me who pirated games a long time ago was exactly like that. Not only that, but effective/PITA DRM actually moved him to buying games.

 

[M3d10n]

As seen from the world of goo guys, it's not a matter of barriers -- sell the game at 'name your price' values, and a lot of people will still rather pirate it than give you a buck.

In the case of DD-only games, there is a much bigger barrier that comes before the price: actually being able to pay for them. There are a metric ton of kids out there with unrestricted access to the internet but not many practical means of spending money through it.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

LOL at the title change. Just brilliant.

 

[bistromathics]

<3 the title change :lol

 

[obonicus]

In the case of DD-only games, there is a much bigger barrier that comes before the price: actually being able to pay for them. There are a metric ton of kids out there with unrestricted access to the internet but not many practical means of spending money through it.

This is a situation with a claimed 90/10 split based on unique IPs. How many of those are kids who are unable but willing to pay?

 

[charlequin]

Examining the issue from the side of the pirates is rationalizing it.

It's not a question of examining it "from the side of the pirates," but rather of examining it from the perspective of a reality where a certain level of piracy is inevitable and finding ways to succeed anyway.

I buy all my games, I spend a lot of money on the industry, and I still think companies that want to treat customers as potential pirates are huge dumbasses.

 

[subversus]

lol, as I predicted people say that it's not 100 different people. Yeah, might be that one guy who crashed Demigod servers on launch. He was trying so hard to connect so he bought 100 000 machines and connected and played the game since Demigod's online wasn't really DRM-protected. Those 18 000 pour souls who actually bought the game weren't able to match that one guy's passion and determination to play. So I uh... what I'm trying to say... there is obviously only one guy that pirates all games on the planet and then connects simultaneously from his PC cluster.

 

[TheExodu5]

lol, as I predicted people say that it's not 100 different people. Yeah, might be that one guy who crashed Demigod servers on launch. He was trying so hard to connect so he bought 100 000 machines and connected and played the game since Demigod's online wasn't really DRM-protected. Those 18 000 pour souls who actually bought the game weren't able to match that one guy's passion and determination to play. So I uh... what I'm trying to say... there is obviously only one guy that pirates all games on the planet and then connects simultaneously from his PC cluster.

What point are you trying to make, exactly? You're not proving much by going from one extreme to the other.

It's not a question of examining it "from the side of the pirates," but rather of examining it from the perspective of a reality where a certain level of piracy is inevitable and finding ways to succeed anyway.

Precisely.

 

[shuri]

In this thread, people with no actual data will contest the data of people with access to it.

 

[Boney]

lol, as I predicted people say that it's not 100 different people. Yeah, might be that one guy who crashed Demigod servers on launch. He was trying so hard to connect so he bought 100 000 machines and connected and played the game since Demigod's online wasn't really DRM-protected. Those 18 000 pour souls who actually bought the game weren't able to match that one guy's passion and determination to play. So I uh... what I'm trying to say... there is obviously only one guy that pirates all games on the planet and then connects simultaneously from his PC cluster.

wha

 

[inky]

What point are you trying to make, exactly? You're not proving much by going from one extreme to the other.

He's trying to say 830 million people pirated Black Ops, or something like that.

 

[LQX]

Why is it that we seem to almost mock stuff like this this? If you buy your software legitimately why dismiss what they are saying?

 

[subversus]

What point are you trying to make, exactly? You're not proving much by going from one extreme to the other.

My point is that people tend to downplay issues with piracy and blame developers for their lack of enthusiasm about the platform where people behave like that. I personally think that piracy and piracy only is the sole reason why PC platform got shunned and sees its revival in a form of F2P games which are good but they are multiplayer and it's quite a limited subset of games. In the meantime piracy tend to be excluded from discussion about what is wrong with the platform while every discussion about developers dumbing down their games should start with this problem and with the ways to fix that except stop making one type of games and make another which could be shoehorned in a commercial model which basically presumes that most people won't pay for their entertainment.

 

[charlequin]

In this thread, people with no actual data will contest the data of people with access to it.

If people have an agenda, and they assert blindly without evidence that their data backs up that agenda, do you trust them, or do you attempt to reason things out from the data that's public?

I mean, you can pick literally any field of significant public interest over the last ten years and I can point you to people with access to "data" who have presented false or misleading conclusions drawn from said data because it was in their own personal interests. That's why we (are supposed to, anyway) get people who don't have a dog in the fight to both study and reason out the appropriate response to issues like this.

 

[Tylahedras]

My friend bought modern warfare 2 for PC, he played it online for a week and found the servers to be filled with bot hackers. He said it was barely playable if at all with latency problems. On top of that it was his first experience with DRM and he resented the hell out of it.

He gave up and downloaded it from a torrent site and not only did the game run properly with no DRM bullshit, but the online play was smoother and there were few if any hackers.

But yeah, my friend totally robbed activision by actually playing the game he paid them for.

And for the record, no my friend is not me, I own it on PS3. And hell he would never have bought it if he hadn't borrowed it from me first, so I guess he stole the game twice?

 

[Aselith]

Why is it that we seem to almost mock stuff like this this? If you buy your software legitimately why dismiss what they are saying?

Because it always sounds like bullshit and people like to call people out on their bullshit. It's fun to make people look silly when they're trying to lie to you especially when it's because they want your sympathy.

 

[TheExodu5]

My friend bought modern warfare 2 for PC, he played it online for a week and found the servers to be filled with bot hackers. He said it was barely playable if at all with latency problems. On top of that it was his first experience with DRM and he resented the hell out of it.

He gave up and downloaded it from a torrent site and not only did the game run properly with no DRM bullshit, but the online play was smoother and there were few if any hackers.

But yeah, my friend totally robbed activision by actually playing the game he paid them for.

And for the record, no my friend is not me, I own it on PS3. And hell he would never have bought it if he hadn't borrowed it from me first, so I guess he stole the game twice?

That doesn't make any sense.

First off, the only DRM is Steam. Second, you can't play online with the pirated version. Third, if he were playing on "hacked" servers, he'd me more likely to encounter hackers. If he encountered hackers in the legit version and didn't in the pirated version, it was purely coincidence.

 

[bumpkin]

If only their DRM was more powerful.

I'm from the camp of they shouldn't have to waste time trying to "outsmart" hackers. People should be honest and purchase the games.

But I know the utopian society I speak of doesn't and will never exist.

 

[ZAK]

Since we don't know how many pirates would have bought it if they didn't pirate it, I don't see how this is useful information.

 

[Aselith]

That doesn't make any sense.

First off, the only DRM is Steam. Second, you can't play online with the pirated version. Third, if he were playing on "hacked" servers, he'd me more likely to encounter hackers. If he encountered hackers in the legit version and didn't in the pirated version, it was purely coincidence.

I'm not so sure as the hacked servers would be self-policing and having an admin on hand to take care of the situation is always faster than waiting on some God from on high to take care of the hacker.

Just because they're pirates doesn't mean they like hackers.

 

[TheExodu5]

I'm not so sure as the hacked servers would be self-policing and having an admin on hand to take care of the situation is always faster than waiting on some God from on high to take care of the hacker.

Just because they're pirates doesn't mean they like hackers.

Why would legitimate servers suddenly not have admins?

 

[Aselith]

Why would legitimate servers suddenly not have admins?

Because MW2 was p2p and thus no server admins to ban people. Am I wrong?

 

[Emitan]

That doesn't make any sense.

First off, the only DRM is Steam. Second, you can't play online with the pirated version. Third, if he were playing on "hacked" servers, he'd me more likely to encounter hackers. If he encountered hackers in the legit version and didn't in the pirated version, it was purely coincidence.

IIRC, MW2 on PC didn't have dedicated servers. The pirate version does.

 

[TheExodu5]

Because MW2 was p2p and thus no server admins to ban people. Am I wrong?

Oh he said MW2...in there were no servers period. In fact, hacked players could play with legitimate players due to a flaw in the security.

IIRC, MW2 on PC didn't have dedicated servers. The pirate version does.

Well, you could hack a dedicated server into the game, but it would get added to the Ranked Matchmaking list, so legitimate and illegitimate players alike could play on it. MW2 was a mess.

 

[Rufus]

And hell he would never have bought it if he hadn't borrowed it from me first, so I guess he stole the game twice?

Good grief man, first of all, you said he paid for it in the first place, so what does it matter if he ended up playing a pirated copy online (that's possible?). It's not like he plays both at the same time.
And since when did borrowing turn into stealing?

 

[Tylahedras]

That doesn't make any sense.

First off, the only DRM is Steam. Second, you can't play online with the pirated version. Third, if he were playing on "hacked" servers, he'd me more likely to encounter hackers. If he encountered hackers in the legit version and didn't in the pirated version, it was purely coincidence.

This is what he told me, I'm just repeating it. I've never played it in any form on PC. I'll have to ask him about playing the pirated version online since a few people here have said it's not possible.

Nevermind I guess some people already answered this then. LOL at them hacking in dedicated servers, even MW2 hackers are super hardcore.

 

[BurntPork]

This is for future back-up for their inevitable decision to move to console development, probably. :/

 

[Utako]

Piracy destroyed the music industry, and now nobody makes music anymore. I bet some of you don't even remember music. Maybe you were born after music stopped being made.

Now pirates are doing that to videogames. Oh pirates!

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

And this is why alot of developer are moving to console and delaying pc version.

 

[Tylahedras]

And since when did borrowing turn into stealing?

Since the last time we had one of these threads the company in question had actually bothered to include estimates for "borrowed versions: with their estimates of losses based on resale. To them if they aren't making money it's stealing.

Which makes sense... if you're a dick.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

I find that anyone who starts their post with "lol" will often follow up with an extremely ignorant and close-minded opinion.

 

[Deleted member 17706]

That doesn't make any sense.

First off, the only DRM is Steam. Second, you can't play online with the pirated version. Third, if he were playing on "hacked" servers, he'd me more likely to encounter hackers. If he encountered hackers in the legit version and didn't in the pirated version, it was purely coincidence.

It turns out that, in the case of Modern Warfare 2, at least, the only way to really avoid hackers is to play on those "hacked" servers that actually have admins and community that will ban assholes.

 

[FGMPR]

And this is why alot of developer are moving to console and delaying pc version.

No its not. Developers "move" to console because making games on three platforms is always going to provide a bigger opportunity to make money than publishing it on PC only.