College Zack
Neo Member
They're right, but it doesn't have to be this way.. Can't we all just get along?
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Arstechnica: Dont read too much into the PS4s million day-one sales
- Thread starter Zombie James
- Start date
staticneuron
Member
"Dont read too much into the XB Ones '?' day-one sales"
I am sure they can work something out.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
Yeah. Basically, it's less about the accuracy of the article and more about the relevance and timing of it. Shitting on parades, or some such thing.
I really don't like to get involved in "fanboy this or fanboy that" because I think it is stupid, however, objectively reading a lot of news outlets coverage with the consoles has been shocking.
I used to read Arstechnica all the time. I absolutely loved the coverage they had on the lawyers that were extorting people out of money over a porn film that was "supposedly" downloaded and all the crap that followed after a judge caught on. But this article and the one about resolution between the 2 consoles coming out now really bug me. They seem to go out of their way to downplay a situation instead of just reporting it. Ars seems to really display the technical side of things which they threw out the door with the resolution piece. I can totally see where they are coming from with a lot of people may not see the difference, but when your bread and butter is providing coverage about tech topics and then spin it so it doesn't make 1 company's product look inferior (totally not saying Microsoft or the Xbox One is inferior, just what the articles represent to an objective outsider - no flames please) people will notice and call you out on it.
Going to a public forum (Twitter) and bashing people who call out your professional inconsistencies is very unprofessional and hopefully your boss/editor calls you out on it, unless they are doing it too which is sad.
Btw I don't own a PS4 or Xbox 1 but have owned every gaming console except the PS2 (surprising to me too).
I stopped reading Gizmodo for the same crap, they bashed a Samsung Android device for being "too light" and praised the iPhone 4 for having some heft. Then a Windows phone came out that was solid and had some weight to it and it was a big deal about how heavy the phone was & at the same time the iPhone 5 came out and got praised on how "light" it was.
I think slowly people have been more vocal about the inconsistencies they are seeing, which is a very good thing. I understand there are a lot of counterpoints to what I said and it has to be hard getting vitriol spewed at you from faceless/nameless internet hordes but sometimes you have to be the bigger person. Only exception is death threats, I can't stand when people do that crap no matter what you do
I used to read Arstechnica all the time. I absolutely loved the coverage they had on the lawyers that were extorting people out of money over a porn film that was "supposedly" downloaded and all the crap that followed after a judge caught on. But this article and the one about resolution between the 2 consoles coming out now really bug me. They seem to go out of their way to downplay a situation instead of just reporting it. Ars seems to really display the technical side of things which they threw out the door with the resolution piece. I can totally see where they are coming from with a lot of people may not see the difference, but when your bread and butter is providing coverage about tech topics and then spin it so it doesn't make 1 company's product look inferior (totally not saying Microsoft or the Xbox One is inferior, just what the articles represent to an objective outsider - no flames please) people will notice and call you out on it.
Going to a public forum (Twitter) and bashing people who call out your professional inconsistencies is very unprofessional and hopefully your boss/editor calls you out on it, unless they are doing it too which is sad.
Btw I don't own a PS4 or Xbox 1 but have owned every gaming console except the PS2 (surprising to me too).
I stopped reading Gizmodo for the same crap, they bashed a Samsung Android device for being "too light" and praised the iPhone 4 for having some heft. Then a Windows phone came out that was solid and had some weight to it and it was a big deal about how heavy the phone was & at the same time the iPhone 5 came out and got praised on how "light" it was.
I think slowly people have been more vocal about the inconsistencies they are seeing, which is a very good thing. I understand there are a lot of counterpoints to what I said and it has to be hard getting vitriol spewed at you from faceless/nameless internet hordes but sometimes you have to be the bigger person. Only exception is death threats, I can't stand when people do that crap no matter what you do
While I think the message of not getting carried away seems important (some people are freaking out over review scores for launch titles), this article really is pointless. It would be like a sports journalist writing an article about not reading into 5 seasons from now based off of this season. Well duh. The real victory is that these launch figures can be used as evidence to solidify gaming as mainstream entertainment.
LunaticHigh
Member
I don't expect MS to even hit 500k, so I doubt there's much buzz about their launch. Maybe 200k.
Chuck Norris
Banned
So why is Sony pictured as a Dr Evil villain in the article?
Septimus Prime
Member
To be fair to Ars, most of their writers and contributors are really good and extremely knowledgeable in their fields of coverage.
Kyle Orland is the odd one out.
Also, regarding the tweet from Aurich, that guy is just their art director, and that's how he posts on their forums, as well.
In NA? I highly doubt it will be anywhere near that low.
shinra-bansho
Member
Hmmm, are you referring to the US or WW? First day, week or month?
I simply can't see US consumers having just spend $400M on new hardware last week going out this week and spending similar amounts again.
I can definitely see Microsoft announcing a shipment number if the numbers aren't favourable to compare. Or even revenue numbers, to claim it's their biggest launch. I can see them selling the same or less than they did with the 360 at launch (~325K).
The last system to launch at $499+ sold through 200K in 9 days. I really think that price is going to hurt.
The 360 only did around 300K at considerably cheaper than the XB1 is launching.
EDIT: Oh, not sure if talking about the US or WW. WW it should hit that I think, but not in US alone.
Worldwide? They will sell as many as they can make. So probably 800k
Mr. Waffle
Member
I guess congrats Sony on your first days sales record wouldn't get as many clicks...
Seriously? If they have a million consoles on store shelves, they'll sell all of them at launch. Even in NA alone. Console launches always sell out, the limiting factor has always been supply constraints.
That didnt happen with the Ps3 or the WiiU.
I was under the impression it was seriously supply constrained for both Xbox 360 and PS3 at launch. I mean, I know it's a bit meaningless if we are talking about hypothetical ample supply and how much it would sell then but I would have thought if supply is there for X1 it should still sell well.
The PS3 was sold out during it's first day in NA launch I remember, and it was severely supply constrained (more than any other console launch I can think of). Wii U you're possibly right, but I doubt Microsoft will fall into the same trappings Nintendo did.
The rumored manufacturing woes and later start at production don't bode well for this outcome, nor do the lower pre-order numbers.
Pristine_Condition
Member
I'm interested in this new direction in media.
Apparently, showing a high level of disdain for the audience and insulting them is the new tactic? Because we're seeing it time and time again now, as a matter of course.
I guess these guys don't like to have their faux "authority" challenged by the unwashed masses of readers/consumers, and they are trying desperately to cling to some sort of sense of sovereignty over "their turf."
But it seems a fool's errand, as people are more and more connected than ever. With both social media and newer media like YouTube "let's play..." becoming more and more commonplace, their position and their sense of power over the way the editorial conversation is framed has been slowly eroded. Now, with the tools for live streaming and instant feedback direct from gamers to other gamers becoming a technological standard in these new boxes, that slow erosion of their perch atop gaming opinion-making has sped up to the pace of a wrecking ball.
Rather than accept this, and figure out a way to roll with it and keep the readership they have, these guys are lashing out like children at their own consumers. If it didn't come with so many insults and incriminations, it would be somewhat amusing that these folks in the now-traditional web media outlets are making many of the same mistakes that the old-guard of print media made many years ago when they tried to hold back the tide of the internet. But instead, it's just sad.
That so many writers and editorial folk are choosing to go the route of indicting the readers and consumers is so off-putting that it's hard to be sympathetic to them, even though this coming consumer media revolution will certainly find more and more of them unemployed. Instead, I find myself reading their comments, saying "good riddance," and hoping the pace of their eventual irrelevance comes sooner rather than later.
Anytime anybody stoops to the level of using blowjob references or calling people "tards," they've lost their moral authority to criticize others as childish or whatever they are accusing the vocal consumers of today.
Apparently, showing a high level of disdain for the audience and insulting them is the new tactic? Because we're seeing it time and time again now, as a matter of course.
I guess these guys don't like to have their faux "authority" challenged by the unwashed masses of readers/consumers, and they are trying desperately to cling to some sort of sense of sovereignty over "their turf."
But it seems a fool's errand, as people are more and more connected than ever. With both social media and newer media like YouTube "let's play..." becoming more and more commonplace, their position and their sense of power over the way the editorial conversation is framed has been slowly eroded. Now, with the tools for live streaming and instant feedback direct from gamers to other gamers becoming a technological standard in these new boxes, that slow erosion of their perch atop gaming opinion-making has sped up to the pace of a wrecking ball.
Rather than accept this, and figure out a way to roll with it and keep the readership they have, these guys are lashing out like children at their own consumers. If it didn't come with so many insults and incriminations, it would be somewhat amusing that these folks in the now-traditional web media outlets are making many of the same mistakes that the old-guard of print media made many years ago when they tried to hold back the tide of the internet. But instead, it's just sad.
That so many writers and editorial folk are choosing to go the route of indicting the readers and consumers is so off-putting that it's hard to be sympathetic to them, even though this coming consumer media revolution will certainly find more and more of them unemployed. Instead, I find myself reading their comments, saying "good riddance," and hoping the pace of their eventual irrelevance comes sooner rather than later.
Anytime anybody stoops to the level of using blowjob references or calling people "tards," they've lost their moral authority to criticize others as childish or whatever they are accusing the vocal consumers of today.
Same situation right? Nope. People are starved for a new gen. Be that ps4 or xbone
DCharlie
Banned
basically - and the finishing "and the wiiU would have sold 2 million if they'd been on shelves!"
There's nothing wrong with the core message, but the delving into the figures doesn't help anything other than OOOH figures.
Regardless - it's true that 1m sold day 1 doesn't say anything about the long term success but for now it's off to a roaring start. Now the ball is in MS's court - once -those- figures are in ? thats going to be fun
Open Source
Banned
Irony alert.
shinra-bansho
Member
There were probably about 500K PS3s in the US and Japanese retail channel at the end of 2006, so I don't think it was supply constrained overall. It just didn't sell that well, unsurprisingly given the price tag.
I think the 360 sell-through was closer to 1.5M units they shipped for Q4 CY05.
LowEndTorque
Member
How many Xbones MS has manufactured and ready to be sold by launch is the 500 million dollar question.
I thought it was a certified CBOAT Truthfact that they were having yield issues. Has anything changed since then?
If they have more than a million on store shelves by launch day the headline will be "Over 1 Million Xbox Ones Shipped!!! Biggest Launch in Xbox History!!!"
If they are supply constrained and only managed to manufacture, say 500 - 700K units the headline will be "Xbox One Sold Out in 13 Countries Worldwide!!! Biggest Launch in Xbox History!!!"
I thought it was a certified CBOAT Truthfact that they were having yield issues. Has anything changed since then?
If they have more than a million on store shelves by launch day the headline will be "Over 1 Million Xbox Ones Shipped!!! Biggest Launch in Xbox History!!!"
If they are supply constrained and only managed to manufacture, say 500 - 700K units the headline will be "Xbox One Sold Out in 13 Countries Worldwide!!! Biggest Launch in Xbox History!!!"
fatgamecat
Member
First day/month sales have multiple factors like price, supply, demand, software support, brand loyalty, etc. that can somewhat predict future sales even if the first month "sold out".
This article doesn't cover any of those things and instead makes simplistic and flawed equivalencies.
This article doesn't cover any of those things and instead makes simplistic and flawed equivalencies.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
Has there actually been any article from any major gaming/tech site that has a positive spin to the 1 million/24-hour news? I haven't read any. I'm not asking for a Sony circle-jerk, I just thought that, y'know, those kind of figures on day one are pretty unprecedented, no?
But it's funny to see the stance the media has taken to it, if they even acknowledge it at all. It's just strange.
But it's funny to see the stance the media has taken to it, if they even acknowledge it at all. It's just strange.
LowEndTorque
Member
Nightengale
Member
Google it up, there's a lot of neutral articles.
Just reports that reword Sony's Pr , basically.
Pancakes R Us
Member
I think it'll be a lot higher. I'd say Xbox has a pretty core group of fans that will buy the next console no matter what, and reckon that these people make up a sizable number.
You're insane if you think that. It's going to do well above 500k. The Xbox brand is still strong no matter how many screw ups ms has made over the last year.
My guess at a sales number is 700k- 850k, but it could be higher yet. Nobody knows how the negativity of the drm junk and resolution will truly affect the gaming public. Not all gamers feed into the console war bullshit.
CoffeeJanitor
Member
These journalists suck.
Stop reading their articles, people.
Stop reading their articles, people.
fatgamecat
Member
Based on 2:1 interest in PS4, I'd guess Xbox has about 500k preorders in NA.
maverick40
Junior Member
That is true but what s stopping them buying a ps4 over an Xbox one this Friday? PS4 hasn't magically disappeared now that it has launched.
NoirVisage
Banned
Then you don't know what irony is.
shinra-bansho
Member
So, in addition to the impact of the dollar spend this last week on the PS4 hardware and games potentially impacting the XB1 hardware sales, I think it's also worth noting the potential positive network effect that a strong launch can have - this is something most tend to ignore.
If Sony publicizes their launch success well I think it can have an impact on consumer purchase intent who are on the fence.
There's a million strong installed base already, after 24 hours. That's a million people who are potentially on the online multiplayer of games like COD and Battlefield and NFS that a consumer may intend to buy. That's a million people among whom a potential consumer may have friends with which they can trade games, increasing both the value of hardware and software. And a million people extolling the virtues of the system to their acquaintances (or I suppose the pitfalls, if they aren't enjoying the system or have been unfortunate enough to get a dud).
People buy what their friends buy. People want what other people are buying. More people on a system increases value. That's part of why launching strong does actually matter.
If Sony publicizes their launch success well I think it can have an impact on consumer purchase intent who are on the fence.
There's a million strong installed base already, after 24 hours. That's a million people who are potentially on the online multiplayer of games like COD and Battlefield and NFS that a consumer may intend to buy. That's a million people among whom a potential consumer may have friends with which they can trade games, increasing both the value of hardware and software. And a million people extolling the virtues of the system to their acquaintances (or I suppose the pitfalls, if they aren't enjoying the system or have been unfortunate enough to get a dud).
People buy what their friends buy. People want what other people are buying. More people on a system increases value. That's part of why launching strong does actually matter.
Nah they will, the saving grace for ms here is that they will have way more countries to come up with a number closer to sonys 1m in NA only. They may even hit 1m ww sales and run with that.
I think Microsoft can easily hit 1m worldwide.
Um... what? There were three consoles in that generation. One of them sold a good deal more units than the other two, which sold about equal.
Even if you're only talking about North America where PS3 lags behind 360, the Wii is still well ahead. What is their definition of dominant here?
Um... what? There were three consoles in that generation. One of them sold a good deal more units than the other two, which sold about equal.
Even if you're only talking about North America where PS3 lags behind 360, the Wii is still well ahead. What is their definition of dominant here?
Hmm will be very interesting to see the sales figures.
There is an element of obvious truth to the point of this article. Of course one day of sales cannot be extrapolated out to the whole product life-cycle. Its still kind of strange for that to require an article at all though, given the weak nature of the supporting evidence.
If anything the comparisons to other launches seem to argue against their premise. I mean, the Wii U selling fewer units over the course of a month and a half than the PS4 did in one day is supposed to be some kind of sobering reality check?
If anything the comparisons to other launches seem to argue against their premise. I mean, the Wii U selling fewer units over the course of a month and a half than the PS4 did in one day is supposed to be some kind of sobering reality check?
Nothing bad about waiting for more data to asses a situation. We cannot disagree with that really.
I think the reason some people get a tad annoyed, and i can see their point of view, with these kinds of articles is that we have had, oh i dont know, a million articles in the last 2-3 years telling us how consoles were dying, how this was the last generation, how you were going to be playing games on a tablet for the rest of your life.
So now that a console has set a unprecedented record, there is this call for patience and "lets wait and see!" yet that same attitude was not taken when the doom n' gloom was cast over the console industry on a consistent basis.
I think the reason some people get a tad annoyed, and i can see their point of view, with these kinds of articles is that we have had, oh i dont know, a million articles in the last 2-3 years telling us how consoles were dying, how this was the last generation, how you were going to be playing games on a tablet for the rest of your life.
So now that a console has set a unprecedented record, there is this call for patience and "lets wait and see!" yet that same attitude was not taken when the doom n' gloom was cast over the console industry on a consistent basis.
shinra-bansho
Member
Oh I just noticed that passage is factually inaccurate, the 360 sold through 326K in the NPD reporting period for November 2005, which only included 5 days of sales. Not two weeks. Great fact-checking there Ars.
Regarding whether the XB1 can sell 1M units globally. I'm still somewhat unconvinced. Launching in more European territories, the 360 only sold around 500K through the end of 2005 at 100 euro less and without any other next gen competition launching alongside it. There may have been an element of supply constraint there sure.
But it's launching in fewer countries, at a higher price with the PS4 coming out a week later with seemingly a lot of momentum behind it. And the PlayStation brand carries quite a bit of strength in Europe besides.
To hit 1M I think they're going to need to have very high US sales - like double their 360 launch.
Regarding whether the XB1 can sell 1M units globally. I'm still somewhat unconvinced. Launching in more European territories, the 360 only sold around 500K through the end of 2005 at 100 euro less and without any other next gen competition launching alongside it. There may have been an element of supply constraint there sure.
But it's launching in fewer countries, at a higher price with the PS4 coming out a week later with seemingly a lot of momentum behind it. And the PlayStation brand carries quite a bit of strength in Europe besides.
To hit 1M I think they're going to need to have very high US sales - like double their 360 launch.
Yeah that made me smile when I read their piece. They make a good point overall in terms of putting the PS4 launch sales in perspective. But that right there was a little awkward. Almost as if their mask of objectivity slipped a little bit.
Nightengale
Member
I think doubling US sales is a possibility, given the growth of the brand...
But Europe is man...that's tough. It was prominently Playstation to begin with, but the gravitation back to Playstation seems stronger than ever there.
But Europe is man...that's tough. It was prominently Playstation to begin with, but the gravitation back to Playstation seems stronger than ever there.
If anything all the anecdotal stories about stores getting at least 2 to 4 times more Ps4s then Ones seems to confirm that Microsoft is having some kind of problem. Normally I wouldn't put much stock in it, but when pretty much everyone says the same thing there has to be something to it.
Four more days and we will know for sure. Right now I am thinking that even if the demand is there(and it probably is) Microsoft just doesn't have the units to put up the numbers the Ps4 did in NA. Will probably have to combine worldwide number to get close or surpass the Ps4s North American showing.