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Arstechnica: Don’t read too much into the PS4’s million day-one sales

Warewolf

Member
Well, he's right. We can't see into the future,

That's an interesting view of the Wii U sales performance he's got there. There were day one units sitting on shelves for weeks around here, Craigslist prices dropped below retail in about two months. This is literally the first I've heard of WIi U shortages.
 

apana

Member
No one should try and downplay the PS4 but it is not wrong to point out that strong initial sales can fade over time. Certain media outlets have shown a history of bias but at the same time a very dedicated segment of Sony fans can be a bit overzealous in demanding that the media declare them victors and constantly affirm the power of Playstation. They are also quite vocal about it, they are likely to leave comments and send letters. I am sure that ticks off a lot of journalists as well, it is not simply that they are getting paid off. I think all sides need to calm down a bit.
 

weevles

Member
There's way too much op-ed, contrarian, clickbait-y, bloggery-type articles on major websites these days. I'm not even going to give them the traffic.
 

stevil

Junior Member
ArsTechnica doing it again...

-1080p vs 720p doesn't matter
-Record breaking launch doesn't matter

...

In defense of ars who normally have pretty good articles

1080p vs 720p
While you need a lot more power to display 1080p it is really not something your average person would notice under normal circumstances. The power however can be used for other things like physics and I would not be surprised if certain developers will opt to make a more life like environment instead of pushing for 1080p.

Record breaking
I really think he tried to give another view since most media (including polygon) where just reporting the news as something amazing. The arguments being made are flawed at best and the premises is not something really worthy as it true for any launch of any product. But I don't believe protectionism or money is the reason of the article
 
Wow really, so many other sites talking about how big of a deal this is. That these are better numbers then any other PS or other console debut and yet they feel the need to put a negative spin on it? I'm sorry but this reeks of bias/money hatting.
 

Cornbread78

Member
Anyone with any lick of sense knows that nothing is "won" in the first month of sales. The article is pointless and does nothing but downplay the huge day one PS4 numbers.

You would think journalist would be thrilled about this. It proves the industry is healthy, yet here they are downplaying it.


He makes no point at all.



Right on, Just throwing $hit against the wall here does nothing, I don't think these "journalists" understand GAF as a whole yet. It's plain and simple, we'll call it out regardless, if it's $hit, it's $hit, regardless if it's a game, a tweet, a console, a PR statement, or even some journalist BS. Everyone is perfectly fine to have an opinion, just don't be surprised if you are alled out for it, that's all...
 

KoopaTheCasual

Junior Member
The funniest thing about these Dreamcast comparisons is this:

The Dreamcast sold almost 250,000 (~225,000) in 25 hours in the US, correct? The PS4 has more than quadrupled that record. Continuing with this horribly flawed logic would lead us to believe that Sony will magically sell 40+ million PS4s in 2 years, since the Dreamcast sold 10 million in that time frame. Even, if we're looking at this dumb "b-b-but the Dreamcast!" excuse, things still look really positive for Sony. And unless another "PS2" comes out of the wild and kills the PS4, it will do well.

No one is saying that launch day numbers 100% reflect the lifecycle of the console. If anyone believes that, they need help. It's just ridiculous when a publication feels the need to speak out and downplay one of the greatest sales achieves in gaming history. Just let people be excited for christ's sake.
 
While the message may be correct, why even write an article for it other than to rain on the PS4's parade? The same thing can be said of ANY product launch, yet this author chooses to single-out the PS4, as if he's upset about its success.

Yes, early sales does not guarantee long term success! But instead of citing examples that also have no correlation with PS4's future success, why not, I don't know, just report the hard numbers? Is it so hard to simply report that Sony sold over 1 million systems in the first 24hrs without lacing it with cautionary FUD? Looks like Ars' new video games writer is carrying-on Kuchera's legacy.
 

UberTag

Member
No one should try and downplay the PS4 but it is not wrong to point out that strong initial sales can fade over time. Certain media outlets have shown a history of bias but at the same time a very dedicated segment of Sony fans can be a bit overzealous in demanding that the media declare them victors and constantly affirm the power of Playstation. They are also quite vocal about it, they are likely to leave comments and send letters. I am sure that ticks off a lot of journalists as well, it is not simply that they are getting paid off. I think all sides need to calm down a bit.
Ah, the "we're just as guilty as they are" argument. That gets trotted out every time this debate plays out, too. Funny how that works.

There's a warped sense of logic out there that allows the media to justify their transparent shilling and uninformed reporting because they'll latch onto some insulting fanboy tweet with terrible spelling and say, "Look how awful the fans are. They're all like that. I'm going to generalize about them just like they generalize about me. Now I can say we're even and I can continue to do a terrible job until the next time they call me out."

Yeah, I'm getting tired of that too.
 

Clear

CliffyB's Cock Holster
What amazes me is the chutzpah they have to put out a piece of clickbait like that, and then turn around and call out "fanboys" for reacting to it...

I also find it deeply fucking insulting that they would infer that anyone taking the publication of that piece at anything other than face value is paranoid or "touchy". Do they honestly think that their audience is so unsophisticated and oblivious that they are unable to read between the lines?

Their contemptuousness is painfully obvious.
 

NHale

Member
Kyle Orland again? This is the 3rd "dubious" article from him in the recent weeks...

Was he fired by Sony? Or did Yoshida killed his cat or something? Because he clearly is hurt about something.
 

gatti-man

Member
In defense of ars who normally have pretty good articles

1080p vs 720p
While you need a lot more power to display 1080p it is really not something your average person would notice under normal circumstances. The power however can be used for other things like physics and I would not be surprised if certain developers will opt to make a more life like environment instead of pushing for 1080p.

Record breaking
I really think he tried to give another view since most media (including polygon) where just reporting the news as something amazing. The arguments being made are flawed at best and the premises is not something really worthy as it true for any launch of any product. But I don't believe protectionism or money is the reason of the article
The difference between 720p and 1080p is very very noticeable. Edges on everything are much better in 1080p less AA needed resulting in a better overall image and IQ.
 

omonimo

Banned
Still, we recommend a bit of caution before looking at those numbers and assuming that the PlayStation 4 will be a long-term, market-leading hit. A quick look at the history of console launch sales numbers shows little correlation between early sales numbers and longer-term success.

For instance, in 2000, the PlayStation 2 sold about 500,000 units in its first 24 hours on its way to capturing a huge majority of the console market in the coming years. In 2001, Nintendo's GameCube and Microsoft's Xbox sold 500,000 and 550,000 units, respectively, in their first week on store shelves, but neither console maker was able to ride launch sales to PS2-level post-launch success.

The Xbox 360 sold through a healthy 326,000 units in the US in the two weeks following its launch, according to NPD. Sega's Dreamcast, on the other hand, sold a larger 372,000 units in just four days of US sales, Sega said (in what was arguably a smaller market for video games at the time). Yet the Xbox 360 went on to be one of the most dominant consoles of its generation, while the Dreamcast languished on shelves and ceased production just over a year after launch.

The Wii U provides another good cautionary tale here. The system sold a solid 400,000 units in the US in its first week on store shelves last year, a figure that rose to 890,000 by the end of 2012, with Nintendo talking up retail shortages and sellouts at many retailers. When 2012 transitioned to 2013, though, the Wii U fell into what is increasingly looking like a death spiral of poor sales, poor support, and poor impact on the market.

Out of my curiosity, what the hell have on common those console sales with the ps4 sales? Pratically not a single has sold half of the ps4 in a day & for them is like the others? I'm speechless.
 
While the message may be correct, why even write an article for it other than to rain on the PS4's parade? The same thing can be said of ANY product launch, yet this author chooses to single-out the PS4, as if he's upset about its success.

Yes, early sales does not guarantee long term success! But instead of citing examples that also have no correlation with PS4's future success, why not, I don't know, just report the hard numbers? Is it so hard to simply report that Sony sold over 1 million systems in the first 24hrs without lacing it with cautionary FUD? Looks like Ars' new video games writer is carrying-on Kuchera's legacy.
 
No shit Ars. Very insightful there.

The same auctions and preorder data indicating a Sony sellout suggest that the Xbox One will see similar healthy sales when it hits North American stores this Friday. In fact, Microsoft seems confident enough in its production capacity to suggest that consumers will be able to buy a system without a pre-order on launch day.
Or maybe it actually has something to do with demand? At least in Europe.
 
Well, we already saw that a good chunk of the enthusiast press has difficulty saying the simple phrase "Sony's console is more powerful", during the whole Resolutiongate thing. I look forward to seeing them being similarly tongue-tied when it comes to the phrase "Sony's console sold more" over the coming months.
 
To be fair, all the number really means is that Sony sold out their launch shipment. Which isn't shocking. The fact that a million people were enthusiastic about the PS4 is to be expected. The real fight comes in the long term, as people who weren't sold by the launch lineup have to decide when (and if) they'll jump in. Same with casual users - what will convince them to upgrade? Launch shipments are for people who will buy the system regardless. They will always sell out.

I expect we'll see similar numbers for the ONE, and similar articles of people saying it doesn't mean a damn thing.
 

dr_rus

Member
The Arstechnica article is basically common sense. Nobody knows how exactly this generation will turn out in 5 years. It's too early to declare victory.
Unless we'll get another new console from a major player with the same amount of resources I think we all know already how this generation will turn out. I mean even if (and that's a big if) MS will be able to cut the price of XBO down below PS4's it'll be rather unclear but as of right now, with the current situation PS4 is a clear and only victor of this generation. There is no way in hell it'll sell worse than PS3 did which is on the same level as 360. With Wii U being mostly removed from the equation in this generation there really is nothing but Sony's bankruptcy that may stop the march of PS4.

By the same token no one would had predicted the PS3 would have sold neck and neck with the Xbox 360 by the end of this generation. But somehow the PS3 eventually caught up even though it had a terrible start.
There were a lot of predictions on PS3 selling neck to neck or even better by the end of this generation.
 

besada

Banned
Eventually GAF will have no magazines to read, as everyone apparently has taken the Microsoft shilling. Then? Then they turn on themselves.
 

stevil

Junior Member
The difference between 720p and 1080p is very very noticeable. Edges on everything are much better in 1080p less AA needed resulting in a better overall image and IQ.
What I mean is that for most people it is not enormous noticeable if they don't have a side by side compare. It's not like if you play on a ps4 at a friends house and you play the same game at your own place on a x1 you suddenly feel sad because it is so much worse. Maybe for you but not for most people
 
'Microsoft are so confident of their production capacity they say there won't be a need for pre-ordering' (paraphrase)

Well that's one way of looking at it...

This. Holy shit, what even IS that. I can barely breathe from laughing.

Panasonic should have used that line during the 3DO Launch. "Maaaan, we got such an awesome production capacity, that you can just go and buy one in stores at launch day! Definitely nothing to do with lack of desire for the product. Nope. Not. A. Thing."
 

avaya

Member
The only launches it is comparable to at this point in time is PS2 and Wii. Everything else is a shit show.
 

FranXico

Member
Just out of curiosity is this the same Ars writer who said the difference between 720p and 1080p doesnt matter while also posting on GAF that Deep Down isnt good enough for next gen because it looks like it might not be 1080p? And who was also the same one who said xbox DRM was the best thing ever and removing it was mistake?

Kyle something?

Why, yes he is... just not on GAF.

Xbox One Eighty: Microsoft fails to sell the future, retreats to the past
How Microsoft's marketing failure is everyone's loss.
 

Perkel

Banned
So we shouldn't ?

1mln units in 24 hours ? Compared to other consoles like PS2 500k in 24h and 500k 500k other consoles that sold that much in week not a day ?

And we are talking here only about US.
 

ASIS

Member
Well obviously one day won't tell the story of the next 5 years. But I'm not sure if anyone is doing that really :/
 

ItIsOkBro

Member
While he's not wrong, I really don't understand the kind of person you have to be to write an article like this. If I were a journalist, the gist of this article would be a cautionary sentence in an article congratulating Sony for their success. How negative do you have to be to make caution its own entire article?
 
What they is true. What will be telling is how the XB1 sales compare. If they are similar then the launch numbers will be a wash. If on the other hand they are significantly less then that would indicate bad yields, low demand, and/or bad planning by Microsoft. All of those would indicate an advantage for the PS4.

The consoles are similar enough that there is little chance that something significant would come along and change the momentum for a console that got a significant lead. For the XB1 I could only see that happening if they got a drastic price reduction, or if the Kinect turn it around and proves itself useful enough to justify the $100 price premium.

Sony just hit a home run with men on base. That doesn't mean that they are garunteed a win, but it does mean that the pressure is on for Microsoft to step up and even the score. If Microsoft does well then things are back to being even. If not then Microsoft has a problem. My guess is that Microsoft has a problem.
 

Marc

Member
I would be worried about this to be honest.

True, although you can twist anything into bad news if you are trying to. Common sense need apply. I seem to recall Iran or some such country were buying up PS2's on the cheap or something to "produce missile chips". Probably rubbish, but it 'could' happen as it is a computing device after all. So a PS2 could be argued is a killer, just as logical as some of the articles we have been seeing.




I like Aurich's art from when I used to visit, back when they had detailed analysis and proper investigative journalism. But he is reaching massively here, always so sensitive to criticism ironically. Kyle skews facts to the point where they become lies in this article, like misrepresenting time and sales to where they are comparable when they are clearly not. Making a big deal of the idea that it doesn't matter, then backtracking and saying these are huge numbers. Just makes no sense, its a fluff piece to justify that title essentially. So many empty premises taken as fact as well, such as if Sony had a 100 million consoles ready for launch they would have sold them all... because you always sell out right at launch, RIGHT?! The line about Microsoft believing they have produced enough to cater to in store demand. That is interpreted as having great production facilities, despite rumours to the contrary apparently. When it could also be interpreted as "the preorder demand isn't there, so tons are left over for retail". Besides it being a fluff piece, its the manner in which it is written and the the context of previous articles that point to this as an attempt to downplay what is a ridiculous sales figure. I mean as I understand it, the Wii U has sold something like 1.5 million in NA to date... so Sony just sold around that in 24 hours. Yet infers a Wii U situation or Gamecube situation in drop off sales could still happen? C'mon, I don't have to be an expert to know someone is trying to sell snake oil to me.

Oh and I forgot the great bit about Xbox being the key winner of last gen, ahead of the Wii and PS3...... errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.............
 

Raist

Banned
Out of my curiosity, what the hell have on common those console sales with the ps4 sales? Pratically not a single has sold half of the ps4 in a day & for them is like the others? I'm speechless.

What he's trying to say is:

PS2 sold 500k
NGC sold 500k
XB sold 550k

But PS2 crushed the other ones LTD.
It's bad already that he's comparing day 1 vs week 1, but that's just completely ignoring a whole lot of other factors, making these comparisons absolutely worthless.

As I said in a previous post, it's like people who said "pfff, doesn't matter if the PS4 is more powerful than the XB1, PS2 was the weakest and won by far".
 
So we shouldn't ?

1mln units in 24 hours ? Compared to other consoles like PS2 500k in 24h and 500k 500k other consoles that sold that much in week not a day ?

And we are talking here only about US.

If the PS2 had 1 million units available at launch it would have sold them. Dreamcast had the record for most sold in the first month at the time and still went out of business in two years. Things can change.
 

fiyah

Member
IGN: 1 million is good but iPhone did 9 million

Engadget: Services will be king

Everybody is putting it in perspective today. I'm normally not one to buy into conspiracy-gate but reading these three articles made me feel like I made the wrong choice even though I just enjoyed a game of FIFA14 from the confort of my office desk via my Vita and an ATT mifi with negligible streaming issues. I mean I'm very happy with my purchase but I feel like these articles want me not to be.
 

gatti-man

Member
What I mean is that for most people it is not enormous noticeable if they don't have a side by side compare. It's not like if you play on a ps4 at a friends house and you play the same game at your own place on a x1 you suddenly feel sad because it is so much worse. Maybe for you but not for most people

Then your comment makes no sense. Its like saying thet wont know what they are missing! Well yes they do which is why the ps4 is more desireable and it will hurt ms on multiplats with dual console owners.
 
Is the author of this the same nut that wrote that gushing piece on Kinect that was flagged up on here, with all the fawning one would expect from someone invested in the MS camp?

If so, I wouldn't bother reading it. And if it isn't him, I still wouldn't read it.
 

140.85

Cognitive Dissonance, Distilled
Why even write this? I mean, it's stating the obvious. Nobody is saying "it's over - Sony won". Nobody loud or important enough to address anyway. And why be so asinine about it with a picture of doctor evil and a title that is patronizing? "Settle down ya dumb fanboys", etc.
 
The CONSUMER did something it wasn't supposed to.

the CONSUMER spoke with their wallets. The CONSUMER rewarded the PS4 with record breaking sales because they agreed with the message it resonated. We don't want DRM. we don't want to be at the mercy of the big companies.

And because THE GAMING MEDIA had already declared the DRM DIGITAL FUTURE the proverbial winner before E3 fan reaction took a shit on their purposed prediction, SONY is being punished for it.

Because MICROSOFT is amazing at marketing. And that Marketing means that they know whose back to scratch. And the GAMING MEDIA enjoyed that gravy train. And now that the gravy train is in danger (Potential MS CEOs calling for xbox' demise, the backlash for DRM) they will fight tooth and nail to protect it.
 

stevil

Junior Member
Then your comment makes no sense. Its like saying thet wont know what they are missing! Well yes they do which is why the ps4 is more desireable and it will hurt ms on multiplats with dual console owners.

I think you are missing the point or I'm bad at explaining it :)
 
They're absolutely right in what they're saying, but they're also stating the complete and utter obvious. We know this.

This. Nobody's gonna argue that the first 24 hours of a console's lifespan has any real bearing on its long term success. Particularly when we're just coming out of the longest console generation ever, so a lot of consumers were no doubt chomping at the bit to upgrade their hardware. And the entertainment landscape has completely changed sinc the last proper launch, with smartphones and tablets now prolific, so there's no real precedent to gauge how this gen might play out, particularly just from the first day's sales.
 

Frolow

Banned
Eventually GAF will have no magazines to read, as everyone apparently has taken the Microsoft shilling. Then? Then they turn on themselves.

That already happened. Every other person on GAF is a viral marketer according to some folk.
 

TS-08

Member
If the PS2 had 1 million units available at launch it would have sold them. Dreamcast had the record for most sold in the first month at the time and still went out of business in two years. Things can change.


And the PS2 was a huge, dominating success.

Would the Dreamcast have sold close to a million at launch?
 
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