jufonuk
not tag worthy
Just stick to retro gaming. Job done or buy Nintendo they will be years behind so will still have dedicated consoles.
(Nintendo fan here)
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Article: CLOUD GAMING CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO REPLACE LOCAL GAMING!!!
- Thread starter svbarnard
- Start date
(Nintendo fan here)
killatopak
Member
If playing competitive games are considered being nerds then a hell of a lot will care.
You seriously think only single player people are complaining? There's a reason tournaments are held locally instead of online.
Last edited:
Whenever I read threads like this I always wonder how many commenters have actually tried cloud gaming nevermind more than one service.
I'm not worried because if it does replace local gaming it will only be when the positives vastly outweigh the negatives because of how sceptical the majority are.
I'm not worried because if it does replace local gaming it will only be when the positives vastly outweigh the negatives because of how sceptical the majority are.
Last edited:
Topher
Gold Member
I agree. Most mobile gamers are not going to carry around a controller.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Nonsense.
Bonfires Down
Member
How peculiar that you didn't answer how long the delay would be. The answer, theoretically, at the speed of light, is less than 1 ms back and forth. A lot of people play competitive games but very few would be able to tell the difference. Your latency of your local hardware is much more important at that point.
MP3 is not as good as FLAC. Guess what format was more popular? It's all about getting to that "good enough" standard. Most people will value convenience over sheer technical specs or quality.
I think cloud gaming is becoming more and more a viable alternative as months go by. I can get into a game like flight simulator without mammoth downloads and installs and make my HW beg for mercy and a sauna out of my room. That's a significant plus for me. I am calling it right here, for PC gamers living in hot climates in the summer, cloud gaming will have a hell of an use case.
Also I can play games not available on PC. I can play on my phone. And I would have to build a new rig to play FM8 and Starfield. Vs subbing to ultimate for some months? It's a no brainer.
If playstation cloud gaming ends up being released in my country down the line I'll give it a try. But I don't trust Sonys streaming tech to be as good as MS or NVIDIA.
Nothing will beat native (PC) versions of games on top of the line HW specially due to modding. But cloud gaming made significant strides over the past few years.
I think cloud gaming is becoming more and more a viable alternative as months go by. I can get into a game like flight simulator without mammoth downloads and installs and make my HW beg for mercy and a sauna out of my room. That's a significant plus for me. I am calling it right here, for PC gamers living in hot climates in the summer, cloud gaming will have a hell of an use case.
Also I can play games not available on PC. I can play on my phone. And I would have to build a new rig to play FM8 and Starfield. Vs subbing to ultimate for some months? It's a no brainer.
If playstation cloud gaming ends up being released in my country down the line I'll give it a try. But I don't trust Sonys streaming tech to be as good as MS or NVIDIA.
Nothing will beat native (PC) versions of games on top of the line HW specially due to modding. But cloud gaming made significant strides over the past few years.
Last edited:
EverydayBeast
thinks Halo Infinite is a new graphical benchmark
Cloud gaming is fine internet connections is messy overall it’s weird at one point movies we’re all physical block buster rentals than Netflix took it to another level.
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
What planet do you live on? Where are you getting such speed?
Topher
Gold Member
Personally, I've tried GFN, Stadia, and xCloud. I haven't tried Shadow or Luna. Of the ones I tried, GFN was certainly the best overall. Stadia was pretty good too, but their business model isn't attractive to me. xCloud is ok for some games, but the lag is a problem for others like Forza Horizon 5 or Halo. Overall still not close to replacing local gaming for me especially considering not all games are available on these services.
killatopak
Member
That's faulty computation.
Pinging your own router with an ethernet cable brings you 1ms.
Bonfires Down
Member
Ok then. So what is the minimum theoretical delay for reaching a server 100 km away?
Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
MikeM
Member
killatopak
Member
If we're using 100% efficiency which is impossible, we're getting between 1-2ms. This is considering your ISP and cloud server is in the same building.
Last edited:
REDRZA MWS
Member
Let’s take to the streets outside MS and Sony HQ!! Chant “SAY IT OUT LOUD……. FUCK THE CLOUD!!”
kirby007
Member
You haven't played an MMO before I see
Jimmy_liv
Member
The thing that gets me with cloud gaming is that - any time it would actually come in useful the Internet connections is horrendous.
I stay away a bit with work and I'm yet to find a hotel which offers a decent Internet connection to play the majority of xcloud games on.
I came back from Spain a couple of weeks ago, trying to game either using 4G or the hotels Internet was simply impossible.
I don't really get when you're meant to use it - unless it's at home and you don't own a console.
I stay away a bit with work and I'm yet to find a hotel which offers a decent Internet connection to play the majority of xcloud games on.
I came back from Spain a couple of weeks ago, trying to game either using 4G or the hotels Internet was simply impossible.
I don't really get when you're meant to use it - unless it's at home and you don't own a console.
nkarafo
Member
I assume you are joking because we are not just talking about online multiplayer games here but every game in general.
nominedomine
Banned
Good enough to most people is mobile gaming not cloud gaming.
Last edited:
kirby007
Member
nah its just that im a few step ahead in the stages of grief process
CeeJay
Member
Fully cloud or a cloud local hybrid will eventually take over for AAA gaming and I think personally that its inevitable.
We have already seen a glimpse of the future with flight Simulator. One of if not the most ambitious titles ever, full earth scale, realtime air traffic, realtime weather and time of day. This game would simply not be possible to work fully offline and unless you stream in assets from the cloud on the fly you don't get the highest graphical fidelity. The best possible way to play regardless of the cost of your rig is to use the hybrid local/cloud option, to fully download it (if there was the option) would take petabytes of storage. This is the start of things to come where we will see the top developers using massive scale simulations or massive scale asset libraries fundamentally under pinning their games. You want better AI NPCs that are more human like and unpredictable, run them in the cloud, you want rich life like environments that change over time naturally then do those heavy calculations in the cloud. With flight sim we are already at a point where the best experience in the genre is reliant on cloud streaming and that is going to become the rule rather than the exception as time goes on. There will always be a place for fully local native hardware but if you want to play the very latest cutting edge, innovative games then the only option for a lot of those experiences in the not too distant future is going to be at least in part by having a cloud streamed element.
Think of it like how the Internet has changed how school children investigate things for projects or homework. When I was at school there was no internet and we had to go into a library and get info out of the huge resources of books they had. There was no way that anyone could have had their own library at home with the same breadth of information. Even with the wealth of information that a library had it still always felt out of date for me trying to look up things like earthquakes or other natural disasters, science material that didn't have the latest innovations etc. Sure, the libraries would get a steady stream of new books coming in but no matter how fast they got them in it would never keep up with what was going on in the world. Fast forward to now and the Internet provides not only the same functionally without having to leave the house but also has the advantage over libraries of been totally dynamic, changing and updating over time. You could if you wanted download all the information you will need to complete your education and store it on a drive for reference but no one does that because once you download a page it's then static and never changes or updates while taking up potentially huge amounts of space. People take the Internet for granted, the fact that it updates constantly 24/7 but when you step back and look at how things are now compared to pre Internet is phenomenal how it's revolutionised our lives. People will look back at gaming in a similar way and think how weird it must have been when we used to buy a game on a disk and that game would be set in stone and never change. We have the situation now with constant patches, updates and ballooning games sizes which no one likes, I see this as just an interim to a future state where games are dynamic and are constantly being updated and changing on the fly in the background, seamless and instant. Sure you could download these updates but there comes a point where to increase the scale and complexity of a game it becomes impossible to do that using current methods and makes way more sense to do all that in the cloud and stream it in part of in full.
A lot of people arguing here that cloud streaming will always be inferior are failing to see the unique advantages that this method brings. Just imagine the innovation that could be done with games by having elements that are cloud native. For example a single NPC (out of thousands) in an RPG that runs like a sophisticated chat bot on a dedicated server cluster that can respond in a more natural human like way and can learn new information over time based on any number of factors either fictional or factual . An NPC that would behave slightly differently each time you visit them, an NPC that each player would have a different experience with. Scale that concept upto a full game and you have something incredible and something simply not possible in a standard downloadable feature complete game install.
Going back to my flight sim example, I no longer have the game installed locally as I don't see the point. Even though I can install it and use hybrid streaming for environment assets I am happy to play it fully streamed and not worry about the huge install footprint and sizable updates. The experience I get from streaming is good enough and the advantages I get from fully streaming it outweigh the advantages I get from installing it.
We have already seen a glimpse of the future with flight Simulator. One of if not the most ambitious titles ever, full earth scale, realtime air traffic, realtime weather and time of day. This game would simply not be possible to work fully offline and unless you stream in assets from the cloud on the fly you don't get the highest graphical fidelity. The best possible way to play regardless of the cost of your rig is to use the hybrid local/cloud option, to fully download it (if there was the option) would take petabytes of storage. This is the start of things to come where we will see the top developers using massive scale simulations or massive scale asset libraries fundamentally under pinning their games. You want better AI NPCs that are more human like and unpredictable, run them in the cloud, you want rich life like environments that change over time naturally then do those heavy calculations in the cloud. With flight sim we are already at a point where the best experience in the genre is reliant on cloud streaming and that is going to become the rule rather than the exception as time goes on. There will always be a place for fully local native hardware but if you want to play the very latest cutting edge, innovative games then the only option for a lot of those experiences in the not too distant future is going to be at least in part by having a cloud streamed element.
Think of it like how the Internet has changed how school children investigate things for projects or homework. When I was at school there was no internet and we had to go into a library and get info out of the huge resources of books they had. There was no way that anyone could have had their own library at home with the same breadth of information. Even with the wealth of information that a library had it still always felt out of date for me trying to look up things like earthquakes or other natural disasters, science material that didn't have the latest innovations etc. Sure, the libraries would get a steady stream of new books coming in but no matter how fast they got them in it would never keep up with what was going on in the world. Fast forward to now and the Internet provides not only the same functionally without having to leave the house but also has the advantage over libraries of been totally dynamic, changing and updating over time. You could if you wanted download all the information you will need to complete your education and store it on a drive for reference but no one does that because once you download a page it's then static and never changes or updates while taking up potentially huge amounts of space. People take the Internet for granted, the fact that it updates constantly 24/7 but when you step back and look at how things are now compared to pre Internet is phenomenal how it's revolutionised our lives. People will look back at gaming in a similar way and think how weird it must have been when we used to buy a game on a disk and that game would be set in stone and never change. We have the situation now with constant patches, updates and ballooning games sizes which no one likes, I see this as just an interim to a future state where games are dynamic and are constantly being updated and changing on the fly in the background, seamless and instant. Sure you could download these updates but there comes a point where to increase the scale and complexity of a game it becomes impossible to do that using current methods and makes way more sense to do all that in the cloud and stream it in part of in full.
A lot of people arguing here that cloud streaming will always be inferior are failing to see the unique advantages that this method brings. Just imagine the innovation that could be done with games by having elements that are cloud native. For example a single NPC (out of thousands) in an RPG that runs like a sophisticated chat bot on a dedicated server cluster that can respond in a more natural human like way and can learn new information over time based on any number of factors either fictional or factual . An NPC that would behave slightly differently each time you visit them, an NPC that each player would have a different experience with. Scale that concept upto a full game and you have something incredible and something simply not possible in a standard downloadable feature complete game install.
Going back to my flight sim example, I no longer have the game installed locally as I don't see the point. Even though I can install it and use hybrid streaming for environment assets I am happy to play it fully streamed and not worry about the huge install footprint and sizable updates. The experience I get from streaming is good enough and the advantages I get from fully streaming it outweigh the advantages I get from installing it.
nkarafo
Member
Well, with MMOs its only natural they die someday. But here's the funny thing: You still have the local files for graphics and assets. All you need is the game logic and scripts that are in the server side. And its possible to emulate those.
I stopped playing WoW in 2010 but i still have massive nostalgia for it. So now i made my own private server. Its a bit buggy and some dungeons may not be fully scripted but 90% of the stuff works like the real thing. It can support lots of players (i did play with some friends) and the game is locked at the expansion i want.
Sure, its a barren world but you get my point. Which is, if i didn't have the local files this would be impossible.
Mr Reasonable
Completely Unreasonable
I agree games on tv is going to be far popular but was trying to say that I think streamed games to phones(and tablets) is a bigger challenger than mobile games are.
Last edited:
Umbasaborne
Banned
I mean, im not interested in cloud gaming whatsoever, but this article seems dramatic, as long as people keep buying games, i dont think we need to worry about losing local games
Topher
Gold Member
Flight Sim is a good example of a game that is ideal for cloud gaming as it isn't action oriented. I just finished Assassin's Creed Origins and that isn't a game I would want to play in the cloud. Maybe one day cloud will be on equal footing, but as it is, it simply isn't ideal for a large number of games. I do think cloud can be utilized in new ways in local gameplay. Kojima seems to be hinting at something like that for xCloud. That will be interesting to see.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
Plus, even physical is not owning. Gamers have the right to play a game privately and the right to keep the box, the CD:
They don't own physical games. There are terms of use... If you don't respect the terms, you'll have big troubles with publishers.
(Remember the old VHS intro disclaimers... You never read it ? That's your pob, it tells you that you cannot do as if it was your property)N1tr0sOx1d3
Given another chance
Stephen Hawkins could type quicker than most gaming streaming platform latencies.
Fat Frog
I advertised for Google Stadia
BOOM !
Physical vs cloud are nonsense though.
These datas just prove that better performances on local hardware isn't automatic and it's not proven the global difference will be worse,
especially in a world where Nintendo is leader in terms of console sales.(in revenues Sony beats them but high price of the PS5 is taken into account).
My point is that a console with a load of 30FPS games ( Destiny 2 on Series X is beaten by GFN, cannot imagine the outcome for a Switch version), blurry image.
If local is automatically better than cloud, then let's compare GFN 3080 tier vs Switch games.
It's nonsense.The top tier cloud is beaten by 1500 bucks PC but it crushes PS5. Period
Dr.Morris79
Gold Member
I was playing Flight sim on the Series X, it had some serious input lag and my connection is not that pants. I can see the allure but if gaming truly went down that path I'd be doing a lot more retro
..Might actually play my backlog for once, maybe it's not a bad thing
Won't be the standard for us old harcore folks. But like with everything else, we are the minority. Convenience will always win out. Once internet is up to par in most places, and something like gamepass is simply a app on your tv, people will sign up for a month, grab any controller, and start playing at a minimal cost.
Streaming took over for every other media, but I can still order physical movies and cds. It won't go away, but definitely won't be the standard
Streaming took over for every other media, but I can still order physical movies and cds. It won't go away, but definitely won't be the standard
Last edited:
nominedomine
Banned
That I could see it happening, I guess streaming would save a lot of battery compared to running more demanding games natively but then datacaps becomes a massive issue.
Last edited:
IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
On one person's connection... not necessarily someone else's....and that's not static either. You might login one day and have shit latency causes by some change to the routing mechanism your ISP uses, or a big apartment building going up nearby you or any number of situations.
And good luck if you are using wi-fi; latency can be all over the map.
I'd rather have constant 85ms latency on my inputs than a variable amount.. oh and no video compression artifacts.
Last edited:
Market will decide. As always.
I don't personally expect that cloud gaming will overtake my usual console setup. But my god it is convenient as hell. I'm travelling often, so to have access to my console games with device like Razer Kishi is godsend. Also, when my wife is watching TV shows i can play games, which is great.
So, I don't want cloud gaming to be my primary way of gaming, but I got used to convince very fast.
Also, I need to point out that I have crappy internet (80Mbit/10Mbit) with data cap (1,5TB) so it's not like I'm an ideal customer for cloud gaming.
I don't personally expect that cloud gaming will overtake my usual console setup. But my god it is convenient as hell. I'm travelling often, so to have access to my console games with device like Razer Kishi is godsend. Also, when my wife is watching TV shows i can play games, which is great.
So, I don't want cloud gaming to be my primary way of gaming, but I got used to convince very fast.
Also, I need to point out that I have crappy internet (80Mbit/10Mbit) with data cap (1,5TB) so it's not like I'm an ideal customer for cloud gaming.
Last edited:
Trogdor1123
Gold Member
Cloud always seemed like a stop gap to me. We are starting to get deminishing returns and eventually when cheap chips can run complex things the cloud would be a detriment to anything.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Who is advocating for a cloud-only gaming future? Seems like a strawman.
Also, this article states that local always has lower latency, that's not true either. Depends on the hardware. The same applies to image quality.
IMO, Cloud is at it's best when it's a side feature in a game sub like Game Pass or PS+ Extra/Premium, or when it allows you to play your own games from the cloud like GeForce Now or ShadowPC. Stadia's model is the least desirable since you don't have access to a library of games and you can't play your own library. Instead, you're forced to buy games from their service.
Problematically, xCloud and PSNow are probably the worst services concerning latency. Although, MS claims to be rectifying that with updates to xCloud.
Also, this article states that local always has lower latency, that's not true either. Depends on the hardware. The same applies to image quality.
IMO, Cloud is at it's best when it's a side feature in a game sub like Game Pass or PS+ Extra/Premium, or when it allows you to play your own games from the cloud like GeForce Now or ShadowPC. Stadia's model is the least desirable since you don't have access to a library of games and you can't play your own library. Instead, you're forced to buy games from their service.
Problematically, xCloud and PSNow are probably the worst services concerning latency. Although, MS claims to be rectifying that with updates to xCloud.
Yep
Schmick
Member
The simple fact is that cloud right now is perfectly fine in specific circumstances. I use it and it works for me. On my PC and through my Xbox One and PS Plus for PC.
Cloud is not shit though, if you think that then you are wrong. It's simply down to your location to a data centre and your Internet connection.
You are also wrong if you think cloud will someday take over local gaming.
Cloud is not shit though, if you think that then you are wrong. It's simply down to your location to a data centre and your Internet connection.
You are also wrong if you think cloud will someday take over local gaming.
Gamezone
Gold Member
I would like to see that. I've tried xCloud, GeForce Now and Stadia on PC. While Stadia was closest to a native experience, they all were trash compared to local gaming on both PC and consoles. I was using a wired connection on a gigabit internet.
John Wick
Member
Same here. I'll stop playing if cloud gaming replaces local gaming. I have zero interest in cloud gaming.