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[Kleegamefan]

So check this out


A guy over at www.nagtroc.com/forums compared a Nurburgring video of the GT-R35 and a Pagani Zonda video and it seems as though the GTR is within 1-2 secs of the Zonda around dry parts of the track!!! (ZOMG!!)

http://www.nagtroc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=20427

The only part of the track the GTR was slower was around the 2 wet parts of the track, and the long straights where it lost a combined 10 sec to the Zonda which did a totally dry run when it set its 7:27.82 time.....here is a time comparison:


Hocheinchen:
Zonda: 36.68
GT-R: 36.93

Flugplatz:
Zonda: 54.44
GT-R: 55.06

Aremberg:
Zonda: 1:20.24
GT-R: 1:20.43

Adenauer Forst:
Zonda: 2:11.76
GT-R: 2:11.76 (EDIT: OH SNAP SON!)

Breidscheid:
Zonda: 2:57.16
GT-R: 2:57.80

Ex-Muhle:
Zonda: 3:03.76
GT-R: 3:04.66

Exiting Wet, Bergwerk:
Zonda: 3:31:48
GT-R: 3:34.30

Exiting Wet, Angstkurve:
Zonda: 3:55.24
GT-R: 4:00.33

Klostertal:
Zonda: 4:09.32
GT-R: 4:15.13

exiting Karussell:
Zonda: 4:28.36
GT-R: 4:33.56

Eschbach:
Zonda: 5:06.77
GT-R: 5:08.60

Planfzgarten I
Zonda: 5:45.94
GT-R: 5:53.70

Schwalbenschwanz:
Zonda: 6:20.38
GT-R: 6:30.06

Entrance to Dottintger Hohe:
Zonda: 6:35.50
GT-R: 6:45.70

Antoniusbuche:
Zonda: 7:06.25
GT-R: 7:17.60

HohenrainSchikane:
Zonda: 7:22.17
GT-R: 7:33.80

End of lap
Zonda: 7:27.82
GT-R: 7:38.54



and here are the numbers for each car:

Nissan GT R35

3,836lbs
480bhp
428 lbs/ft torque
~8 lb/HP power to weight ratio

Pagani Zonda F

2711lbs
650bhp
575 lbs/ft torque
4.2 lb/HP power to weight ratio


It seems nissans philosophy with the GTR is to publish conservative numbers so when magazine pubs test the car it will match or beat the numbers given by the factory....there are currently rumors Nissan drivers actually hit 7:30s on the ring (ZOMG!!) but liked the idea of a fast time on a partially wet track (in line with their, "Anyone, Anywhere, at Anytime" tagline for the GTR) so they stuck with the 7:38.54 time for now


Back in the day, Skyline R33s and R34s horsepower ratings were severely underrated.....there was a "gentlemans agreement" among Japanese car companies that no car would be more powerfull that 276BHP....well *OBVIOUSLY* cars like the Supra Twin Turbo, Mitsubishi 3000GT Twin Turbo and, of course, the R33 and R34 Skyline had more power than 276HP(R34s were actually something like 340BHP) but they still underrated it anyway....

I am starting to think Nissan is continuing that tradition with the R35 because this thing must have MUCH MORE than 480BHP at the crank to post 3.5sec 0-60, 11.7 1/4mile times and 7:38.54s around the ring..

I am guessing it is actually closer to 550BHP at the crank.....thats my guess at least...

 

[EverSoTrendy]

People who rice Skylines are weird. The car comes beastly off the lot. Anymore would be crazy. This looks ok, but it's just my bias talking. Since I think the best Skyline ever produced was the R32.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Here ya go:

 

[The Bookerman]

ZOMG :drool


Hot sex!

 

[Rice-Eater]

About the design, sometimes I think it looks gorgeous, other times I don't think it looks so great. I can't wait to see one in real life though. There has to be at least one rich guy where I live who can afford one and drive it to Wal mart so the rest of us poor folks can stop and admire it

 

[Bog]

Looks like a pimped up Chevy Cobalt from behind. Don't even try to deny it.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Looks like a pimped up Chevy Cobalt from behind. Don't even try to deny it.

The back of this car is pure GT-R. The cobalt is the shitty knockoff! I'm still not sold on the side profile. I think it lost a bit of that "sleeper" look to it.

 

[reaver18]

Looks like a pimped up Chevy Cobalt from behind. Don't even try to deny it.

sadly this is true. every time I look at the back I think "another gay cobalt"

 

[The Bookerman]

Looks like a pimped up Chevy Cobalt from behind. Don't even try to deny it.

Tail lights are similar but That's about it.

Everything about the back is sleek and reeks of awesomeness.

Compared to the cobalt it's like night and day.

 

[The Bookerman]

To proove a point.

Also, the Cobalt's back takes it's inspiration from the Corvette(another Chevy) not from the GT-R(or Skylines).

And The GT-R's direct opponent is the corvette.

 

[fart]

It seems nissans philosophy with the GTR is to publish conservative numbers so when magazine pubs test the car it will match or beat the numbers given by the factory....there are currently rumors Nissan drivers actually hit 7:30s on the ring (ZOMG!!) but liked the idea of a fast time on a partially wet track (in line with their, "Anyone, Anywhere, at Anytime" tagline for the GTR) so they stuck with the 7:38.54 time for now


Back in the day, Skyline R33s and R34s horsepower ratings were severely underrated.....there was a "gentlemans agreement" among Japanese car companies that no car would be more powerfull that 276BHP....well *OBVIOUSLY* cars like the Supra Twin Turbo, Mitsubishi 3000GT Twin Turbo and, of course, the R33 and R34 Skyline had more power than 276HP(R34s were actually something like 340BHP) but they still underrated it anyway....

I am starting to think Nissan is continuing that tradition with the R35 because this thing must have MUCH MORE than 480BHP at the crank to post 3.5sec 0-60, 11.7 1/4mile times and 7:38.54s around the ring..

I am guessing it is actually closer to 550BHP at the crank.....thats my guess at least...

i don't believe a word of this. the "gentlemen's agreement" ended long ago. the published numbers are definitely on the conservative side (all published numbers should be... remember how mazda got sued over the renesis?), but not by > 10%, that's just blatantly throwing away money. more likely they had a smart car and fast guys setting their times. also their trick awd system has _always_ given great times in the wet (nearly the same as when dry). the trick of this car is and has always been an eerie efficiency when traction might normally get scarce, so it shouldn't be a surprise at all that the gt-r is right behind the zonda everywhere but the straights.

with launch control and the sequential i don't think the straight-line numbers are out of the question either.

 

[GONZO]

The only numbers I'm gonna believe are independent time trials. Nissan of course has built a great car. But you know for damn sure their drivers are very skilled pros. And being very well paid by nissan to make sure thet car gets great times. I wanna see the guys at top gear get their hands on this thing. They've driven everything under the sun, and I'm interested to see how well they think this car stacks up.

 

[TheOMan]

sadly this is true. every time I look at the back I think "another gay cobalt"

Looks like a pimped up Chevy Cobalt from behind. Don't even try to deny it.

what?

what?

what?


If *anything* it's the Cobalt that is "similar" to this, not the other way around. What the??? Go do a Google image search on the previous generations of the Skyline. Man.

 

[reaver18]

what?

what?

what?


If *anything* it's the Cobalt that is "similar" to this, not the other way around. What the??? Go do a Google image search on the previous generations of the Skyline. Man.

I know that but how many times a day do you see a cobalt on the road compared to a skyline? I'm just saying it reminds me of a cobalt when I look at it, more than the back of the skyline.

 

[thesoapster]

To proove a point.

Also, the Cobalt's back takes it's inspiration from the Corvette(another Chevy) not from the GT-R(or Skylines).

And The GT-R's direct opponent is the corvette.

It looks a lot different when you look at other areas besides the rear...plus...it's a COBALT :lol

 

[XMonkey]

To proove a point.

Also, the Cobalt's back takes it's inspiration from the Corvette(another Chevy) not from the GT-R(or Skylines).

And The GT-R's direct opponent is the corvette.

Uh, no.

 

[Fallout-NL]

Now that's pretty.

 

[AlphaSnake]

alpha is completely full of shit.

the gt-r is fast for all the reasons you would expect: careful engineering and a fuckload of control systems.

ps, porsche puts the engine in the wrong damn place and the corvette still runs rear leaf springs
LOZL

If I'm full of shit, you're a fucking moron:

"The engine power output values indicated in this catalog are all net power output values.
•Engine power output can be indicated as 'Net power output' or 'Gross power output'. 'Gross' values are estimations of power output of the engine alone. 'Net' values are estimations of when the engine is assembled onto the vehicle. For estimations of the same gasoline engines, 'Net' values are approximately 15% lower than 'Gross' values according to JAMA research."

http://press.nissan-global.com/PRESSKIT/NISSANGTR/0710/ENGLISH/index.html

Got some more shit to say, fart? Or are you going to kindly eat your crow now? Thx.

 

[Fallout-NL]

There's turns in vintage Trans-Am racing, you know. Left AND right turns.

Got some videos? That should be hilarious.

 

[fart]

If I'm full of shit, you're a fucking moron:

"The engine power output values indicated in this catalog are all net power output values.
•Engine power output can be indicated as 'Net power output' or 'Gross power output'. 'Gross' values are estimations of power output of the engine alone. 'Net' values are estimations of when the engine is assembled onto the vehicle. For estimations of the same gasoline engines, 'Net' values are approximately 15% lower than 'Gross' values according to JAMA research."

http://press.nissan-global.com/PRESSKIT/NISSANGTR/0710/ENGLISH/index.html

Got some more shit to say, fart? Or are you going to kindly eat your crow now? Thx.

god you're such an idiot.

"gross horsepower" refers to a power measurement taken on a bare engine -- literally take a naked (and often blueprinted and hand-assembled) engine at sea level with the coldest air you can find and open pipes for intake and exhaust and slap a meter on the output shaft.

a "net horsepower" measurement is pretty similar but you take the entire motor assembly as would be thrown into a chassis, ie including all accessories (gearbox depends on the reporting standard -- with the current SAE net horsepower measurement standard this is _not_ required. air density, intake and exhaust piping are similarly specified by the standard) and measure at the flywheel (or trans output shaft if you're swinging that way i guess). sometimes this is called brake horsepower, but that only refers to the form of the meter you put on the flywheel, not the car's brakes.

measurements taken at the wheels with a rolling road are usually referred to as wheel horsepower (NOT brake horsepower); assume at least 20% (although with the gearbox at the rear of the new gt-r this could be substantially less at some torque split settings...) driveline loss with the gt-r's complex AWD system, although this generally takes into account the weight and frictional losses of all the crazy shit you have to spin to get power to the wheels from the crank.

i don't know why you people even care exactly how much power the engine/engine attached to transmission/engine attached to MASSIVE GODZILLA CHASSIS makes up to like an order of magnitude. seriously, no matter how much motive power a car can generate to this or that piece of the driveline, all that really matters if you're not some professional hot shoe (and none of you are) is how much fun you have putting that shit to the ground, and all that really matters in that game is you, not the car. that's why arcadey sims with lots of slow sporty street cars like GT and forza (2 -- 1 was shit) are still so damned fun. it's also why they do that van demo at skip barber events.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

I saw one of these the other day. Fucking hot.

 

[AlphaSnake]

god you're such an idiot.

"gross horsepower" refers to a power measurement taken on a bare engine -- literally take a naked (and often blueprinted and hand-assembled) engine at sea level with the coldest air you can find and open pipes for intake and exhaust and slap a meter on the output shaft.

a "net horsepower" measurement is pretty similar but you take the entire motor assembly as would be thrown into a chassis, ie including all accessories (gearbox depends on the reporting standard -- with the current SAE net horsepower measurement standard this is _not_ required. air density, intake and exhaust piping are similarly specified by the standard) and measure at the flywheel. sometimes this is called brake horsepower, but that only refers to the form of the meter you put on the flywheel, not the car's brakes.

measurements taken at the wheels with a rolling road are usually referred to as wheel horsepower (NOT brake horsepower); assume at least 20% (although with the gearbox at the rear of the new gt-r this could be substantially less at some torque split settings...) driveline loss with the gt-r's complex AWD system, although this generally takes into account the weight and frictional losses of all the crazy shit you have to spin to get power to the wheels from the crank.

Would you like to make a wager then? That when dyoned, the GTR will dyno near its advertised 468HP, and nowhere near a 15-20% drivetrain loss (sort of how the 335i dynos 280WHP, meanwhile BMW claims 300BHP).

Loser gets a tag that says: "I got cockslapped by (winner's name) peins", with a link to the wager. Up for it?

 

[fart]

way to gloss over the fact that you were painfully wrong, alpha. i'm actually just going to stop clicking on the "view post" links for your posts and resume pretending you don't exist. things tend to be better that way.

 

[AlphaSnake]

Nah, you're right. I forgot, and thought that gross HP was HP measured with accessories + exhaust, and Net HP is after drivetrain loss.

In any case, yes or no to the wager?

 

[golem]

my friend just got a sales job at an Infiniti dealership.. gonna try to swing a spot in line.. hehe

 

[The Bookerman]

Uh, no.

No explanation, that picture still explains shit. you lose.

 

[Crayon Shinchan]

No explanation, that picture still explains shit. you lose.

The only people seeing fucking cobalts are red-neck hicks that give a toss about american cars :/

 

[twinturbo2]

Got some videos? That should be hilarious.

Parnelli Jones would like to have a word with you...

 

[Innotech]

This car is goddamned fucking incredible and I splooge at the mere thought of it.

And I hated the old GTRs. I dunno why I love this one so much.

 

[BuG]

The first time I saw it I wasn't too hot on it but some of the new pics are awesome.

 

[Kleegamefan]

Hate to say it alpha but fart is 100% right on the net HP deal...

 

[Kleegamefan]

Check out this video of a modified Supercharged 2002 BMW M3 CSL E46 tackling the ring with a 7:22 time :jawdrop


The sound of this car is to DIE FOR

http://carscoop.blogspot.com/2007/11/bmw-m3-csl-supercharged-laps.html

 

[AlphaSnake]

Hate to say it alpha but fart is 100% right on the net HP deal...

Yeah, I admitted that much. I got Net and Gross completely confused. Still, either the car has absurdly great AWD to run 11.5, while weighing 700lbs more than a Z06 with less torque and less HP - or Nissan is bullshitting their figures (like Japanese manufacturers commonly did/do), and the car has more power than that. The car has a weaker power:weight ratio than my brother's M6, and is 3/4-second faster in the 1/4 mile, driven by moderately decent journo drivers.

The numbers simply don't add up.

 

[Kleegamefan]

On the flip side fart, I have to agree with alpha 100% that Japanese car makers have a legacy of understating hp figures....Toyota did it with the Supra TT, Nissan did it with the Skyline GTRs, and of course both Subaru and Mitsubishi were FAMOUS for understating hp ratings of their WRX/Evo cars(the actual BHP ratings of which were closely guarded secrets) because of extreme competitiveness between each other...

Also known for understating power ratings is BMW, which is why 6 cyl. 3 and 5-series accellerate like greased lightning compared to what their listed power to weight ratios would lead you to believe...understating hp is unusual but dyno tests have shown it to be true...

I am convinced the same kind of things are going on with the GTR.....Nissan has a legacy of doing this with the GTR nameplate...

 

[AlphaSnake]

And so, it looks like I was right. Car was ran on a DynaPack dyno, which typically reads 10HP more than a DynoJet. The tcf is at 1.00 (tcf @ 1.15 or 1.22 would display flywheel numbers). That's 482WHP, and that means Nissan underrated the car intentionally and my prediction was correct: it's pushing out over 500HP at the crank -- close to 520-530HP. Insanity.

The dyno is still fresh, so let's see if it's real and accurate. Hopefully others dyno this bad-boy.

 

[fart]

On the flip side fart, I have to agree with alpha 100% that Japanese car makers have a legacy of understating hp figures....Toyota did it with the Supra TT, Nissan did it with the Skyline GTRs, and of course both Subaru and Mitsubishi were FAMOUS for understating hp ratings of their WRX/Evo cars(the actual BHP ratings of which were closely guarded secrets) because of extreme competitiveness between each other...

Also known for understating power ratings is BMW, which is why 6 cyl. 3 and 5-series accellerate like greased lightning compared to what their listed power to weight ratios would lead you to believe...understating hp is unusual but dyno tests have shown it to be true...

I am convinced the same kind of things are going on with the GTR.....Nissan has a legacy of doing this with the GTR nameplate...

this is ridiculous ricer mythology. of course there's going to be sample variation, but you're an idiot to rate your motor at more or less than 1-1.5 sigma from the mean. on the upper end you're going to get sued, and on the lower end, you're handing money to your competitors, who can claim to have a car which outperforms you.

the whole origin of this was the gentleman's agreement, which is now very very much over (although it's why you think that these mid-late 90s jp sports were all underrated -- they were, naturally, although not by _that_ much). but the key to this whole thing is that no one in the japan dm would claim to have a car that outperformed any of the other manufacturers. when you take that out of the equation, you're forced to rate properly as above.

also, _please_, BMW engineers are all german and you would have to screw their balls to their slide rules before you could get them to misrate a motor. if you do think bmws accelerate like greased lightning, for example, ones with an s54 in them, it's probably because of gearing and the fact that it revs to 8 grand, and not because the company is purposely underrating their engines so that ricers will speak of them in hushed tones, and magazine writers will have to think of new and more flowery ways to describe the mechanics of their parts.

finally, the first published dyno test seems to have gone up, and it's 475 hp at the hubs with a dynapack (which tend to read high), measured on 2 wheels. i expect the motor is rated perfectly, as any good engineering form would be forced by liability and ethics to do.

 

[MaX_PL]

you guys who think it looks like a cobalt are idiots. youre saying that simply because of the round lights and thats it. nothing else about the back look like a cobalt.

 

[XMonkey]

No explanation, that picture still explains shit. you lose.

Wrong again.

This is the old Skyline GTR, the same GTR that came out way before a fucking Cobalt ever did. The new GTR isn't jacking shit from a Cobalt, it's taking inspiration from the amazing line of GTRs that preceded it.

 

[The Bookerman]

Wrong again.

This is the old Skyline GTR, the same GTR that came out way before a fucking Cobalt ever did. The new GTR isn't jacking shit from a Cobalt, it's taking inspiration from the amazing line of GTRs that preceded it.

Wow, reading FTL.


I said the cobalt had nothing to do with the New GTR's, like some folks earlier had been mentioning.

That the cobalt drew it's inspiration from a Corvette.... not the GTR.


The GT-R obey's to it's own styling Cues.

 

[XMonkey]

Wow, reading FTL.


I said the cobalt had nothing to do with the New GTR's, like some folks earlier had been mentioning.

That the cobalt drew it's inspiration from a Corvette.... not the GTR.


The GT-R obey's to it's own styling Cues.

And you wonder why I thought that when the post before says "The tail lights are similar but that's about it"

 

[AlphaSnake]

also, _please_, BMW engineers are all german and you would have to screw their balls to their slide rules before you could get them to misrate a motor. if you do think bmws accelerate like greased lightning, for example, ones with an s54 in them, it's probably because of gearing and the fact that it revs to 8 grand, and not because the company is purposely underrating their engines so that ricers will speak of them in hushed tones, and magazine writers will have to think of new and more flowery ways to describe the mechanics of their parts.

Eh? It has nothing to do with that. It's widely accepted that the cars are underrated in power. They're dynoing ~280HP+ - factor in the 15% and you've got just about 320HP. More importantly, the TQ numbers are coming in at 285-300WTQ - factor that 15% back and you've got between 325-340lbs of TQ out of the motor.

The bottom line is, TT BMWs are underrated significantly.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I have a tingling suspicion that I'm on Fart's blocked list.

 

[medrew]

I have a tingling suspicion that I'm on Fart's blocked list.

I'll save you the time and thought:

way to gloss over the fact that you were painfully wrong, alpha. i'm actually just going to stop clicking on the "view post" links for your posts and resume pretending you don't exist. things tend to be better that way.

 

[AlphaSnake]

I'll save you the time and thought:

Ah, missed that.

Well, he spoke like a true cop-out bitch, despite the fact that I admitted I was confused and incorrect.

 

[twinturbo2]

I have a tingling suspicion that I'm on Fart's blocked list.

Me, too, dude, join the club...

 

[rampur]

Full road test! Won't spoil the results

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=124017/pageId=133808

 

[Vinzer Deling]

Well you were wrong Fart.. but don't take it to heart because what Alpha is saying isn't actually his educated opinion, but him regurgitating 2nd hand information that has been speculated since the lap times and performance figures showed up. :lol

 

[dskillzhtown]

The GT-R is at the Houston Car Show. I will try to go by there after work today to get some shots for GAF. they are advertising this as the North American debut. Is that true?