Atheism vs Theism |OT|

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#1
So am getting sick and tired of the same old people derailing threads that has any religious theme in it, Almost every thread with a religious theme gets derailed by discussion of Atheism vs theism. I searched and couldn't find any thread to this effect so am making one, i hope the mods allow this thread to be open. For once let there be a thread were people can argue their beliefs without derailing another topic. To start off, i believe in God. What about you?
 
#4
I was raised Christian, but I don't see any evidence of a master plan across world history. If there is one, it's a sadistic one. So I'm agnostic. If there is a God, I can't perceive it, and if it is imperceptible, it is irrelevant for practical purposes.
 
#5
What an insightful opening post. I also believe in God but sometimes question my beliefs and hence that's why I avoid most religious discussions as idk what I believe sometimes.
 
#6
I'm not sure what I believe. I really hope there is a god and heaven but the older I get and the more I think about it, the more doubtful I become.
 
#7
I believe in a God in whatever that model of the universe is where God started things (e.g. triggered the Big Bang) and then kept hands-off the rest of the way. No, I have no rational reason to believe this. No, I do not allow this belief to affect my day-to-day life or my ability to make rational decisions. Yes, I am afraid of death and want to believe that I will live on forever in some capacity even though it's wholly illogical. No, I don't think any atheist's arguments are likely to convince me otherwise, and yes I know that religion has been the motivation behind some terrible things. Also: this thread is going to suck.
 

Lost Fragment

Obsessed with 4chan
#8
People aren't going to not talk about how they think religion is dumb/religion isn't dumb because you make a topic being like "All posts I don't like go in this topic pls."
 
#9
I'm here to represent Pastafarianism, and its deity, the Flying Spaghetti Monster.



Everyone who does not believe in His Divine Noodliness is lost, and a big stupid doodoo-head too.
 
#14
There's not a single religion out there making any sense when you consider the real, actual, natural world. Science does. 'nough said.
 
#15
This should be short.


I was raised a Protestant but around late high school I left and haven't really looked back for the most part. There are some parts I miss, but mostly I'm glad. The thought processes of most religious people I know seem pretty ridiculous to me now.
 
#17
Hey OP, you can a good the conversation rolling with this:

GTP_Daverytimes said:
And as usual they all all start going mad, four quotes already *sighs*. Atheists and all human alike thank God when the good comes and Blame's God when the bad comes around. We try to downplay that there is someone out their that is more powerful than us because our ego's are so fucking large that we choose to believe that we are the greatest. Doesn't it baffle you that scientist are not able to fully prove all those theories that are presented? and before you say that it is ironic doesn't it baffle you that those same people point fingers at religious people for not fully providing proof that their is a God.
Please explain to me how you somehow knew that I thanked God when I landed a job but blamed him when my dog died? I certainly didn't notice at the time.

And to answer you original question, I don't believe in God, Christian or otherwise. Neither does my wife, or my parents. We all came to the same conclusion after careful deliberation on our own.
 
#20
GTP_Daverytimes said:
Yea, i don't know about you but the whole thread turned into an argument on whether God exists.
It's quite simple. Over there the OP basically asked "Religious people do this. How do that make sense?". Discussing whether or not religion makes sense (ie god exists) is not exactly a huge stretch/derail.
 
#22
Raist said:
There's not a single religion out there making any sense when you consider the real, actual, natural world. Science does. 'nough said.
There aren't any religions that believe in a God as an abstract being or one that does not interfere with the workings of the universe? If there is even one, this statement is patently false. In any case, I don't think the goal of religion is now to explain how the world works.
 
#24
I do not believe God has ever influenced the history of human eace in any way. So, no, I do not believe in anything any religion preaches.

Whether there's a life form creating inuverses for all sorts of purposes, I really don't know. But I firmly believe human race will at a point in the future have a capability to create virtual universes through computer simulation and to process hundreds of billions of years in that universe in mere seconds. So, yes, I do believe in "God" to an extent, but not in the shape or form Christians try to show him.
 
#29
Lagspike_exe said:
I do not believe God has ever influenced the history of human eace in any way. So, no, I do not believe in anything any religion preaches.

Whether there's a life form creating inuverses for all sorts of purposes, I really don't know. But I firmly believe human race will at a point in the future have a capability to create virtual universes through computer simulation and to process hundreds of billions of years in that universe in mere seconds. So, yes, I do believe in "God" to an extent, but not in the shape or form Christians try to show him.
Maybe not an actual god, but the idea of god(s) certainly has made quite the impact, for better and for worse (mostly the latter I'd say TBH).
 
#30
Sharp said:
There aren't any religions that believe in a God as an abstract being or one that does not interfere with the workings of the universe? If there is even one, this statement is patently false. In any case, I don't think the goal of religion is now to explain how the world works.
It wasn't the goal per se, but it definitely was the result of humans wondering what the fuck is going on, why are we here etc. All religions have made claims about the natural world, loads of them, and barely any turned out to be remotely close to correct, even with big stretches.
 
#31
Leunam said:
Please explain to me how you somehow knew that I thanked God when I landed a job but blamed him when my dog died? I certainly didn't notice at the time.
GTP_Daverytimes just knows, because he knows everything. Omniscience comes with the territory of being God.

 
#32
Atramental said:
Burden of proof is on the theists. *goes off to get a drink*
Not really. Theism is inherently an unfalisifiable hypothesis--that is to say, beyond the realm of scientific proof. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's false, only that it's not scientific. The same can be said of, say, string theory, which I understand a number of atheists subscribe to.
 
#36
Raist said:
It wasn't the goal per se, but it definitely was the result of humans wondering what the fuck is going on, why are we here etc. All religions have made claims about the natural world, loads of them, and barely any turned out to be remotely close to correct, even with big stretches.
This I agree with. Natural philosophy was also, at one point, quite taken with the idea of explaining he world. But I don't think most people currently view religion that way, but rather to make ourselves feel better or more comfortable about things over which we have little control. Although, maybe I'm wrong and the majority of people still take the bible literally.
 
#37
Sharp said:
There aren't any religions that believe in a God as an abstract being or one that does not interfere with the workings of the universe? If there is even one, this statement is patently false. In any case, I don't think the goal of religion is now to explain how the world works.
Deism, kind of. It posits a "first mover" that started the universe, but doesn't interfere with its operation. Whether he cares about humanity, or is even aware of us at all, is not widely agreed upon among believers.
 
#38
GTP_Daverytimes said:
So am getting sick and tired of the same old people derailing threads that has any religious theme in it, Almost every thread with a religious theme gets derailed by discussion of Atheism vs theism. I searched and couldn't find any thread to this effect so am making one, i hope the mods allow this thread to be open. For once let there be a thread were people can argue their beliefs without derailing another topic. To start off, i believe in God. What about you?
ur already dead gif.

my work here is done, TAXI! get me the hell outa here!

Edit: prefer this one actually:
 
#41
Orayn said:
Deism, kind of. It posits a "first mover" that started the universe, but doesn't interfere with its operation. Whether he cares about humanity, or is even aware of us at all, is not widely agreed upon among believers.
To me, it would of course not make a great deal of sense for any such "first mover" to view humanity as special in any way, but it is difficult to say whether the first mover would even "think" in the classical sense, let alone act like one might expect such a deity to act. This is why it's not really a scientific question. You can say whatever you want about the "first mover" and no one can really demonstrate otherwise, if it is posited not to interfere with the workings of the universe. My impression was that this was where most of the theological debate was centered today--on nonfalsifiable hypotheses like this. Not on whether old religious texts that aren't consistent with anything we know about science were literally accurate.
 
#43
Sharp said:
Not really. Theism is inherently an unfalisifiable hypothesis--that is to say, beyond the realm of scientific proof. That doesn't necessarily mean that it's false, only that it's not scientific. The same can be said of, say, string theory, which I understand a number of atheists subscribe to.
String theory is in extremely early stages and at least has mathematical and theoretical evidence behind it, but since it won't be falsifiable for rather a long time many ignore it.

The concept of god(s) really has none and as science and society has advanced it has had an ever decreasing space in which it is placed into.
 
#44
To believe in God you need to trust in faith.

To have faith you must disregard what your senses and knowledge tell you is true.

Oil meets water.

A million threads are written on a million forums every day about this same subject and the same result happens -- bannings and the start of a new religious topic!
 
#48
Lets all be honest here, believing in a god or believing there isn't a god are both reliant on faith and humans believing they are more than they are.

First of all I respect most religions and I love reading about them and their mythology, epic storylines and people of old trying to explain how the universe came about is endlessly interesting to me. But that doesn't change the fact that it is never a proven fact.

I myself do not know if a god exists or not, but I truly don't care enough to prove it mostly cause I feel that it isn't our place to know. Life is mysterious and that is the beauty of it, thinking about how it came to be is one of the most mentally stimulating things anyone can do. I feel that if there was a god and heaven and hell existed god would be reasonable enough to understand who is a good person and not judge them by some old book, and if god doesn't exist well then when you're dead and you won't know cause you're dead. I live y my own rules and since my own rules doesn't involve rape or murder I don't think I am a horrible person.

And another thing I don't like is people claiming god doesn't exist for all the bad shit that happens on earth. I think that a god would be something we can't comprehend let alone judge, and I also feel that humanities faults are humanities responsibility and blaming it on a higher being is retarded. And another case I would like to bring up is if god does exist why would it care enough to give us religion? And why must god look like a human and be male or female or black or white?

It is an interesting subject that I love discussing, but I see that it depends on your audience and 9 times out of 10 you won't be around people who can discuss it with respect mostly cause any argument involving the non existence of god is something a believer won't fathom, and the existence of a god is one an atheist refuses to believe. I hope GAF can prove me wrong but due to the size of the community I don't see it happening.
 
#49
DeathIsTheEnd said:
String theory is in extremely early stages and at least has mathematical and theoretical evidence behind it, but since it won't be falsifiable for rather a long time many ignore it.
One of the central tenets of most variants string theory is that most of the existing dimensions are arranged in such a way that they will never interact with our perceived universe. One of the central tenants of a number of modern variants of religion is that whatever deities exist do so in a way that they will never interact with our perceived universe. String theory was devised because it makes some messy equations neater, and scientists like neat equations. God was devised because it makes some terrifying prospects more palatable, and humans like being comfortable. They seem quite analogous to me. Neither has any reason to exist, other than that humans would like them to exist, but that doesn't mean they are disprovable either.
The concept of god(s) really has none and as science and society has advanced it has had an ever decreasing space in which it is placed into.
Again, treating the existence of god(s) as a scientific question is missing the point, because people's belief in them is not evidence-based.
 
#50
rance said:
I'm an atheist.

I find most other atheists obnoxious, at least the ones who feel the need to be snarky about religion.
I find it funny how some atheists don't want to hear about god or anyone preach religion yet they preach atheism. It would be better if both side believed whatever they want and shut up.
 
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