Xdrive05 said:
On your first point about random chance, I think it's an unjustified assumption to presume that if you're an Atheist you must believe it's random chance that we're here in our current capacity having this conversation. I know I'm not qualified to carry informed opinions about the ultimate randomness or purposefulness of any and all things - including us. I suspect you are also not qualified.
We may not be qualified, but we can trust others who are. Although to be honest I find the whole evolution v. creation debate to be a bore. Because I don't think I can understand either fully and I hate being confused.
Xdrive05 said:
On the other two points I believe you're actually wrong - and I'll appeal to fields of biology and philosophy respectively (regarding the 'cannot be explained' claim). And I have to pose to you - because I think this is a serious problem - how does postulating a God get you anywhere near explaining this? Aren't you just heaping on top of the problem an even bigger problem that requires even further explanation?
I am seriously not looking into the matter of the origin of life. And I am a believer, so if God's word says God created everything in seven days, I am ok with that answer as that is not my calling in life, to prove creation. Although I admit I find young earth creationists arguments fascinating because I appreciate the dedication.
Xdrive05 said:
Another false assumption on your part in a straw man form. I do not believe that "life just popped into being randomly and without cause." And I don't see how postulating a God gets you any closer to explaining the ultimate "why". Because I can just as easily ask "Why God?" or "How God". So now you have to explain everything I do, plus a supernatural deity as well.
My wording reflects my interest in the Kalam Cosmological argument, I think it is a strong logical argument for the existence of God.
"Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
The universe began to exist.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.
This cause is the God of Classical Theism, and is a personal being, because He chose to create the universe."
But ultimately you cannot even approach "why" without a creator. So I would like to know what your cause was as an atheist if you are not a naturalist.
Xdrive05 said:
Same problem. These are ultimately false dichotomies you're presenting to me - the assumption that Theism/God is necessary for 'good thing X'. Or at least that Atheism is necessarily devoid of it. I think you need to justify that implied claim.
I don't even see how we could define "good" or "evil" without some objective moral code. I don't see how that comes about naturally.
Xdrive05 said:
If you would allow me to ask you a question, I'd appreciate it. What if it is that case that the God of Abraham and resurrected man from Galilee is NOT the god you believe in, but just an additional entry in the long list of proposed Gods throughout history? My real question: what method would you use to go about determining this? It's the 'how'. How do you determine which god is/was the correct one, if any?
I don't know if I can completely answer this because I am not sure I fully understand the question as worded. But I will try.
If the Christian God is not the one true God, then I guess I am not going to hell no matter what I do. At my end, I will have lived a life hopefully worthy of other Gods. At least I hope so as I want God to be good, although if He is not there is not a damn thing I can do about it. Ultimately though, I have lived a life considering others more important than myself, hopefully humble, forgiving and generous. And that I have made others lives around me better for knowing me. I can see no other thing in life as worthy.
As for the second part, well I am still trying to determine the truth of it all. I am trying to do it in a way the does not compromise my rationality, or reason for I cannot blindly follow anything. I always ask why. So while I was brought up as a Christian, I am questioning everything I have come to believe these days.
Xdrive05 said:
Seriously, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
That is cool. I avoid these threads mostly, but they are so one-sided on GAF that I feel the need to speak up now and then. But I seriously have no desire to prove that God exists to anyone other than myself. I have doubts, but one thing I have learned in last year or so is that you cannot actually have faith without doubt, otherwise it would not be faith at all.