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Atheist GAF: Your moment of realization
- Thread starter Snuggles
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Devil Theory
Member
AnkitT said:
Yes.
I'm amazed Dawkins has such patience for someone like her, why would he even waste his time? She's such a moron it doesn't even seem real.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Yes. But only insofar that everything we believe ultimately rests on some form of faith.Jintor said:
Hopefully everyone understands: personally I do think science is the right choice... It's just that most of us have not empirically chosen it, we have chosen it based on social authority.
paranoidfortean
Member
probably when i was 4 or 5. didn't buy it.
sullytao said:
typical signs of being brainwashed beyond repair
you see that glazed empty look in allot of scientology people too from a couple of docu's i watched
their defense machanism to arguments its almost robot like
like lifeless automatons
scientology people shout "what are your crimes???? whata are your crimes!!!!"
all she does is "where's the evidence theres no evidence!!!!"
different but oh so similar
louis89
Member
When I was about 8 or so, in school this old teacher who had retired came in to our class once, to tell us about Christianity. We all sat down on the carpet and I remember her saying something like, "Where do puppies come from? Man can be very clever, but he can't make a puppy." I remember thinking what a ridiculous strawman that was. Well, I wouldn't have known the word 'strawman', but still. I don't think I ever *really* believed in God before that (it's kind of the default position when you're a kid in a Western country like the UK, the idea of 'God' is around and as a kid you just accept anything, but my parents weren't really religious), but that's one of the earliest memories I have of being like, "Wait wtf? That makes no sense at all".
Throughout my teen years I was a hardcore atheist and Dawkins-worshipper, but since then I've kind of mellowed out and though I'm completely an atheist and always will be, I don't really care about other people's religions and I don't get angry about it, as I've come to the view that 99% of people who are religious are that way because they were raised that way by their parents, and if you're raised to believe something, you'll probably believe it. I'm not going to get angry at a Muslim dude for being raised in the Middle East by Muslim parents. It's cool.
Throughout my teen years I was a hardcore atheist and Dawkins-worshipper, but since then I've kind of mellowed out and though I'm completely an atheist and always will be, I don't really care about other people's religions and I don't get angry about it, as I've come to the view that 99% of people who are religious are that way because they were raised that way by their parents, and if you're raised to believe something, you'll probably believe it. I'm not going to get angry at a Muslim dude for being raised in the Middle East by Muslim parents. It's cool.
Joel Was Right
If you smell burning, it's probably the generators acting up. Report it anyway.
What do you think is the main factor for atheism today? Is it a disagreement with certain aspects of doctrine, or is it the necessity for physical evidence for a creator? The reason I ask is that in the current climate where society is secular, some young people grow up with their knowledge on religions limited to Christmas carols or well known Biblical stories. Eventually (this is me generalising), they come across certain aspects of religion which they totally disagree with and so are attracted to the attitude of questioning the existence of God himself. They would say they don't believe in God, but I don't get the impression that this is based on a lack of evidence per se (or that argument there isn't); it's as if they haven't really wrestled with the idea and come to a conclusion - something you often learn about other atheists who use their intelligence and reason to explain their position. It's difficult to describe this mentality, but it is one that is very common amongst the 17-23 year old demographic from what I've experienced.
Then again, do you need to study religion before you can justify your position of atheism? What do you think of those who feel the need to read a Bible, even though there will be physical evidence in there to prove the existence of God, first before coming to any conclusion?
Then again, do you need to study religion before you can justify your position of atheism? What do you think of those who feel the need to read a Bible, even though there will be physical evidence in there to prove the existence of God, first before coming to any conclusion?
TheQueen'sOwn
insert blank space here
When I got in trouble for asking questions my Sunday school teacher couldn't answer.
I was 5 maybe 6.
Such bullshit :lol.
I was 5 maybe 6.
Such bullshit :lol.
APZonerunner
Member
For me I was always skeptical - always agnostic in a way. My mom is also agnostic, but my grandparents are "lightly" Christian - they have crosses in the house but never really go to church apart from for Births, Weddings and Deaths.
I stumbled upon Bad Religion... via Crazy Taxi. I started listening to their songs, but when you listen to their lyrics for the more serious songs - the ones that aren't just punky 'burn the establishment' stuff - it seriously rocked my world. It taught me things.
I owe a lot to that band. I even read the singer's thesis that he did for his PHD, which was all about evolution.
It's interesting for me, as my girlfriend's family are filipino and so all rather religious. She's kinda agnostic.
I stumbled upon Bad Religion... via Crazy Taxi. I started listening to their songs, but when you listen to their lyrics for the more serious songs - the ones that aren't just punky 'burn the establishment' stuff - it seriously rocked my world. It taught me things.
I owe a lot to that band. I even read the singer's thesis that he did for his PHD, which was all about evolution.
It's interesting for me, as my girlfriend's family are filipino and so all rather religious. She's kinda agnostic.
krypt0nian
Banned
$200 said:
oh my...
Christian robots live amongst us.
She wants children to think for themselves? I cannot stop laughing.
I was 6. I prayed to god to let me have flying powers like superman.
He didn't answer.
I prayed again asking that in order for me to believe there was a higher power, he'd let me levitate like Jerry O'connel in My secret identity.
He didn't answer.
To this day I've been an athiest because "god" wouldn't let me fly.
He didn't answer.
I prayed again asking that in order for me to believe there was a higher power, he'd let me levitate like Jerry O'connel in My secret identity.
He didn't answer.
To this day I've been an athiest because "god" wouldn't let me fly.
It started at church as a little kid when I had to pray. Anytime I did I just had no idea what I was supposed to do, I felt no connection to this god person. In my attempt to try and figure it out I started treating him as a pal like "Oh hey god, this happened and that happened and I hope I'll be able to pass this test but I dont know" and after two masses of this I was like "Oh. He's basically like an imaginary friend" and went from there.
phisheep
NeoGAF's Chief Barrister
Meus Renaissance said:
This is something that puzzles me a bit about modern militant atheism - the way it (Dawkins, Hitchens etc) focusses on one aspect of religion, namely belief in a God, makes some pretty devastating claims against that belief but then goes on to assume that the world would be a better place if nobody had that belief.
That completely ignores two things. First, the social aspects of religions - essentially they are social structures built for static and relatively isolated populations that have survived pretty well into modern times, and offer an admirable amout of social cohesion, mutual help and respect. And second, the fact that for all the scientific posturing, science has nothing to replace that - nothing at all.
From a plain faith-versus-science approach to the nature of the universe then science has it licked, but so far as sustainable social structures go, it is nowhere.
And as for the claimed ills of religion, very many of them are not necessarily down to religion in itself but are the results of conflict between religions. Taking the religions away would mean there is no conflict, it would just move the conflict somewhere else - transport and communication are as much, and probably more, at fault than is religion.
That is a classic example of what I was referring to.teh_pwn said:
Religious people believe in hope rather than truth. Yes it would be great if human beings knew that they were individually created by god out of love, but that isn't reality. The reality is that we descend from other species and when we die our body and thus our brain simply ceases to function.
Theist people tend to say, "show me the evidence", then after choosing to ignorantly bypass all evidence shown to them they cannot produce any single point of evidence to back their belief.
I ask this now to Theist GAF: Give me ONE piece of evidence for the existence of a god.
phisheep said:
I admit that as a social institution and as a means of having large groups of people who more or less share common values religions still have worth, but quite frankly I could replace that with the concept of the nation-state and you'd get around the same results. Less spiritual stuff though... I have some personal thoughts there about the 'need' for such things.
It started for me around the 12th grade. I went to a Christian school, and my Bible teacher was a pretty hardcore Calvinist. Studying the New Testament from a Calvinist perspective just completely destroyed the message of hope and love that made Christianity appealing.
Then I really started thinking about some of the stuff in the Old Testament, and I realized that I wasn't a big fan of God as he was portrayed.
Then I really started thinking about some of the stuff in the Old Testament, and I realized that I wasn't a big fan of God as he was portrayed.
Souldriver
Member
You are wrong in your assumption that science should offer alternatives for everything that religion offers. It just tries to show why religion is a bunch of crock and how it undermines rational thinking.phisheep said:
Religion creates a community and social structure, science not. It's not one of its aims either. However, you can build a community on many different sorts of mutual understandings. Like humanism. Most of Western Europe is a-religious, yet it is community: it has the same values about human rights, political institutions, social solidarity, ... that creates a bond. On smaller levels creating a community becomes more easy. Religion is not a necessity for that.
It's also a big oversimplification when it is scornfully claimed that atheists belief all war and injustice would be gone if it were not for religion. Nobody is actually claiming that. However, a big, possibly the biggest factor contributing to violence and war would be gone without religion. It's not so much the specifics of a religion that are a dangerous cocktail, it's the very core of "religious believing" that is dangerous. It's the idea that a book prescribes to you what is good and bad, and based on that you deduct who is your enemy. You can go to war based on no rational justification or reason. "God is on my side", "my god said so", "I will be rewarded", "they will be punished". If people unlearned this irrational behavior, the chances of them going to war would drastically cut down.
Sure, you could still be a total dick wanting to steal resources from another population, or annex that nice chuck of land. But at least you'd be fully aware of your actions and consequences, and not think you're doing "a good thing" because some book or fairytale told you so. Which brings me to the quote that bad people do bad things, but you need religion to make good people do bad things. Violence and war is caused by people who are either bad, are insane and/or irrational. While not the only cause, religion is a big contribution to the latter.
No. It's perfectly normal to label yourself as atheist, as the chances of there being a god are next to zero. Otherwise, I could label myself an agnostic on just about everything. I'm almost 100% sure that there are no invisible rainbows coming out of my nose, as there is no evidence or indication to this whatsoever, however, as I'm not 100% sure, I chose to call myself invisible rainbow-agnostic. Stupid analogy, but you get what I mean... I also understand what you're saying though: there is never 100% certainty about anything, so labeling yourself as agnostic technically is also correct.Dan Yo said:
FleckSplat
Member
AnkitT said:
More like Wendy Wrong.
I would consider people willing to go to war over something "God told them" to be nutcases. Just as I would consider someone using science as an excuse to "cleanse the human race of imperfection" through genocide to be a nutcase.Souldriver said:
Crazy people are crazy people, no matter what belief system they subscribe to.
The possibility of intelligent design is next to 0? What experiment did you conduct to arrive to this conclusion? (Although I'm sure your answer will be "I just used common sense!")Souldriver said:
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Souldriver said:
I think he was just saying that being raised atheist, never having considered other possibilities, is as good as being brainwashed.
I don't know that "agnostic" is a better position to hold.... but it does presume to start out from a more default position of claiming to have no knowledge one way or the other. I don't think it matters where you end up on the scale of labels, as long as you begin by being honest about the biases created by your upbringing, and actually consider alternative points of view.
krypt0nian
Banned
Dan Yo said:
It's the same as the possibility that my garden is infested with lawn gnomes.
How About No
Member
I don't remember. I know I wasn't always atheist, but I do not know when I felt myself an atheist. Not that I was of strong faith, neither was my mother. And she definitely wasn't a strong atheist, maybe not even atheist at all, and she didn't push any beliefs on me. I know my father's catholic, but he never pushed me in any direction either.
I just came to realize God or A god was a non-factor in my life.
I just came to realize God or A god was a non-factor in my life.
Vicetrailia
Banned
Went to church till I was 17, like 12 years.
Never believed, I was always looking for a reason to believe. Kept asking why and never heard an answer that made sense.
No realization, just never started. I have nothing against religion.
Never believed, I was always looking for a reason to believe. Kept asking why and never heard an answer that made sense.
No realization, just never started. I have nothing against religion.
krypt0nian
Banned
$200 said:
You two should stop hanging out. It's getting embarrassing.
Dan Yo said:
What about agnostic atheists?
Anyways, I think religion has its place. I don't think the world can operate succesfully if everybody where to be an atheist. Some people are too iresponsible and stupid to understand the beauty of life, and we need religion to keep them under control.
when i was a kid my grandmother raised me a bit...my moms side of the family are jehova witnesses....it was that religion that made me realized "whats the point" since they dont believe in anything it started making me think everything was fake, when i got a bit older my dad took custody of me and he was catholic-that didnt work, when i was in my teens i tried becoming a christian...what a joke that was, then my father threw the catholic crap away and got into Santeria(no joke) by this point i was seriously fed up with any religion lol.
also i cant stop thinking if "you" were born in another part of the world what religion would you be? its all about the society your in that teaches you what religion your suppose to be in.
also i cant stop thinking if "you" were born in another part of the world what religion would you be? its all about the society your in that teaches you what religion your suppose to be in.
Was raised Catholic myself. Went to church on and off throughout my childhood. Went to sunday school when I was younger, but I went to regular public schools. My entire family is still catholic except for me. They're pretty casual in their beliefs so it has never been a problem (though I'm sure someone will say something at my upcomming wedding).
I think it was in high school. I was never one to question things all that much until my best friend, who loves to argue about everything, genuinely asked me the question and I realized I wasn't actually sure. After many discussions with friends and such, the entire idea of religion began to seem pretty silly to me. And then my mom passed away overnight to Cancer during my first semester of college. People close to me, all my life would tell me the usual 'things happen for a reason' and 'god has a plan'. Some fucking plan.
Mostly though, I just find religion to be a waste of my time. And the questions I have regarding such things like the existence of some higher being and the afterlife I assume will be answered for me when I die. Until then I plan to live life and try and make the most of the time I have.
I think it was in high school. I was never one to question things all that much until my best friend, who loves to argue about everything, genuinely asked me the question and I realized I wasn't actually sure. After many discussions with friends and such, the entire idea of religion began to seem pretty silly to me. And then my mom passed away overnight to Cancer during my first semester of college. People close to me, all my life would tell me the usual 'things happen for a reason' and 'god has a plan'. Some fucking plan.
Mostly though, I just find religion to be a waste of my time. And the questions I have regarding such things like the existence of some higher being and the afterlife I assume will be answered for me when I die. Until then I plan to live life and try and make the most of the time I have.
I went to a Christian school but wasn't raised Christian at home. My mom always used to give me a polaroid picture of the teacher with "don't believe his lies" written on the back. Nah I could never believe the stories of a guy splitting up the red sea and another guy turning water into wine.
You have a hypothesis. You test it. If the results don't match your hypothesis you revise. This is trial and error isn't it? Don't see your point about placebos, since placebos work to an extent so what isn't there to believe. Also I don't see how superstitions can be based on trial and error experience. :lol Trial and error implies consistent testing.BocoDragon said:
Wow, I have no words. I what way is an expert scientist not passing on his knowledge when he writes a science book, journal or takes on a position as a teacher at an university or some such?BocoDragon said:
D
Deleted member 1235
Unconfirmed Member
was raised extremely christian from 8-17 and had to go to an evangelical church.
Never once met/heard gods voice etc etc and none of the people preaching to me looked very convinced, they just kind of looked a bit sad and desperate.
Never once met/heard gods voice etc etc and none of the people preaching to me looked very convinced, they just kind of looked a bit sad and desperate.
What the fuck man. There's a clear difference between religion and science, everyone knows it, and you don't need to break it down in a freaking thesis.BocoDragon said:
Now I need someone to prove to me that Harry Potter's not real, and how my belief that Harry Potter and Hogwarts is real is somehow similar to science.
Holy shit. I used to like your posts.
Born atheist, never received any contrary 'enlightenment' and didn't really give it much thought until I was 18 and my Dad was ordained. Taking a cold, hard look at religion at the age of 18-20 is probably why I'm so anti-religion now. I don't think anybody would sincerely believe were they not indoctrinated at birth.
Dirtyshubb
Member
Except for the born agains, they are the worst ones in my experience.SmokyDave said:
Never been religious, not brought up to be and have never been able to get past my internal logic that there is some devine being waiting out there.
Neoriceisgood
Member
I caught god stealing food from my fridge one night, but he said he wasn't real, so it was okay.
Never truly believed. The first time I remember it coming up I said I was "Christian" just to fit in. I mean I celebrated Christmas and everything so I was Christian right? Through High School I just never thought about it. I knew I didn't believe, but I would only combat religion if anyone I knew believed some easily disproved things (creationism for example). It wasn't until college when I started watching hour long Television (yes this is a weird way to realize it) where I learned that there were famous people who were atheists. The first was when I watched Firefly then Buffy the Vampire Slayer and found out Joss Whedon was an atheist. I felt comfortable in using the atheist label from then on. At this time I also started watching Penn & Teller's Bullshit. I certainly disagreed with them on a variety of topics, but the religion one stuck. Afterwards I looked up different arguments for and against religion and have been doing it since. Suddenly I realized I wasn't the only one. This was around 2005, and it was a pretty good time with all the new books coming out on the subject.
Monocle
Member
Except religion doesn't keep people under control. It influences people to behave irrationally, or to encourage or tolerate irrationality in others, and bad people to behave just as they please, all with the warrant of an imaginary overseer.ultim8p00 said:
Those good acts one might be tempted to attribute to religion are soured if the concepts of choice and personal responsibility are thrown out the window, as they must be when you're the plaything of a celestial tyrant. "Do what I say and you get to live in heaven and praise me forever. Defy me and I'll torture you for eternity." If that's the way of things, you and I are slaves. Choice doesn't enter into the matter; we're doomed to a hellish fate no matter what we do. Endless pain or endless affirmations of compulsory love. In any case, people can't be held responsible for things that are out of their control, no more than they can be praised for acting selfishly or hypocritically. Doing a virtuous thing "because God said so" is about as righteous as raking your front yard so your mom doesn't ground you.
If religious teachings solve one set of problems, they spawn a host of others. In many parts of central and southern Africa, vast swathes of the population suffer from lack of education, poverty, starvation and disease. How has religion benefited Africans, you might wonder? Well, thanks in great part to the Catholic Church's lies to the effect that condoms allow and even cause sexually transmitted infections, the AIDS epidemic is still killing millions. The ever-growing mountain of bodies it has produced would tower over any building in your city.
Surely, if religion pacified the masses, a predominantly Christian nation like the USA would be a utopia compared to a largely secular place like Sweden. Surprise: America's homicide rate is about five times higher. Want to guess the ratio of religious to nonreligious people in our prisons? This is all correlative, of course, but one can't avoid the observation that such figures reflect badly on religion's purported ability to suppress wickedness, if not inspire good.
Evidently, religion intensifies tribalism, bigotry and violent impulses while burdening moral people with groundless fear, guilt, and a faulty system for contending with life's travails and appreciating its wonders. Two major reason theocratic dictatorships worked in the past were that the elite could restrict education and back their demands with force. (The Dark Ages are so named for good reason.) In modern times, these tactics are no longer viable outside third world countries and isolated communities. Thank God.
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