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[YoungHav]

Great post monocle.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Monocle wins. God is dead.

 

[Megadragon15]

Except religion doesn't keep people under control. It influences people to behave irrationally, or to encourage or tolerate irrationality in others, and bad people to behave just as they please, all with the warrant of an imaginary overseer.

Those good acts one might be tempted to attribute to religion are soured if the concepts of choice and personal responsibility are thrown out the window, as they must be when you're the plaything of a celestial tyrant. "Do what I say and you get to live in heaven and praise me forever. Defy me and I'll torture you for eternity." If that's the way of things, you and I are slaves. Choice doesn't enter into the matter; we're doomed to a hellish fate no matter what we do. Endless pain or endless affirmations of compulsory love. In any case, people can't be held responsible for things that are out of their control, no more than they can be praised for acting selfishly or hypocritically. Doing a virtuous thing "because God said so" is about as righteous as raking your front yard so your mom doesn't ground you.

If religious teachings solve one set of problems, they spawn a host of others. In many parts of central and southern Africa, vast swathes of the population suffer from lack of education, poverty, starvation and disease. How has religion benefited Africans, you might wonder? Well, thanks in great part to the Catholic Church's lies to the effect that condoms allow and even cause sexually transmitted infections, the AIDS epidemic is still killing millions. The ever-growing mountain of bodies it has produced would tower over any building in your city.

Surely, if religion pacified the masses, a predominantly Christian nation like the USA would be a utopia compared to a largely secular place like Sweden. Surprise: America's homicide rate is about five times higher. Want to guess the ratio of religious to nonreligious people in our prisons? This is all correlative, of course, but one can't avoid the observation that such figures reflect badly on religion's purported ability to suppress wickedness, if not inspire good.

Evidently, religion intensifies tribalism, bigotry and violent impulses while burdening moral people with groundless fear, guilt, and a faulty system for contending with life's travails and appreciating its wonders. Two major reason theocratic dictatorships worked in the past were that the elite could restrict education and back their demands with force. (The Dark Ages are so named for good reason.) In modern times, these tactics are no longer viable outside third world countries and isolated communities. Thank God.

Irony?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Irony?

...

 

[onipex]

Except religion doesn't keep people under control. It influences people to behave irrationally, or to encourage or tolerate irrationality in others, and bad people to behave just as they please, all with the warrant of an imaginary overseer.

Those good acts one might be tempted to attribute to religion are soured if the concepts of choice and personal responsibility are thrown out the window, as they must be when you're the plaything of a celestial tyrant. "Do what I say and you get to live in heaven and praise me forever. Defy me and I'll torture you for eternity." If that's the way of things, you and I are slaves. Choice doesn't enter into the matter; we're doomed to a hellish fate no matter what we do. Endless pain or endless affirmations of compulsory love. In any case, people can't be held responsible for things that are out of their control, no more than they can be praised for acting selfishly or hypocritically. Doing a virtuous thing "because God said so" is about as righteous as raking your front yard so your mom doesn't ground you.

If religious teachings solve one set of problems, they spawn a host of others. In many parts of central and southern Africa, vast swathes of the population suffer from lack of education, poverty, starvation and disease. How has religion benefited Africans, you might wonder? Well, thanks in great part to the Catholic Church's lies to the effect that condoms allow and even cause sexually transmitted infections, the AIDS epidemic is still killing millions. The ever-growing mountain of bodies it has produced would tower over any building in your city.

Surely, if religion pacified the masses, a predominantly Christian nation like the USA would be a utopia compared to a largely secular place like Sweden. Surprise: America's homicide rate is about five times higher. Want to guess the ratio of religious to nonreligious people in our prisons? This is all correlative, of course, but one can't avoid the observation that such figures reflect badly on religion's purported ability to suppress wickedness, if not inspire good.

Evidently, religion intensifies tribalism, bigotry and violent impulses while burdening moral people with groundless fear, guilt, and a faulty system for contending with life's travails and appreciating its wonders. Two major reason theocratic dictatorships worked in the past were that the elite could restrict education and back their demands with force. (The Dark Ages are so named for good reason.) In modern times, these tactics are no longer viable outside third world countries and isolated communities. Thank God.

So you are just one of those people who look at every negative thing that comes out of religion and ignores the positive things people get out of faith.


anyway to be somewhat one topic as a former atheist my moment of realization that made me an atheist came from seeing how full of crap church people were. Many of the people that praised the loudest were really just nasty people to be around and i wanted nothing to do with most of them. I just never saw how going through all was worth it. Over time I just slowly stop believing until I didn't believe at all. It was a pretty eye opening and freeing experience.


Some events that happened later in my life caused me to reclaim my faith and even make it stronger. I have to say that regaining my faith was a much better experience than losing it. I've felt more confident and inspired since.
`

 

[Count Dookkake]

So you are just one of those people who look at every negative thing that comes out of religion and ignores the positive things people get out of faith.

The meagre nutritional benefits derived from corn and peanuts do not make a compelling argument for coprophagia.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

So you are just one of those people who look at every negative thing that comes out of religion and ignores the positive things people get out of faith.

You know, Chris Benoit was a really good wrestler. I'm going to go hang up a poster. Nice guy until that final day, really.

 

[Rubenov]

After many discussions with friends and family on the non-existence of God based on logic and reason, I now just go with the flow. At work, with others, and in any other scenario I just don't discuss my beliefs and just do whatever religious thing people are doing.

Pray? Sure. I bow my head and follow along.

They want me to pray? I bow my head and thank God for XYZ, and ask him to help with XYZ. It doesn't matter. No one will change their beliefs, and just going along with it makes me more social and gets me more pussy -- which for me is a bigger goal than proving God doesn't exist or "staying true to my values" or whatever.

 

[jdogmoney]

The meagre nutritional benefits derived from corn and peanuts do not make a compelling argument for coprophagia.

Dayum.

I mean, I'm an atheist, but...damn.

Spoiler

You've got a point, of course.

Some events that happened later in my life caused me to reclaim my faith and even make it stronger. I have to say that regaining my faith was a much better experience than losing it. I've felt more confident and inspired since.

I've always been intrigued by former atheists...do you mind me asking what happened to make you regain your faith?

 

[Dan Yo]

Surely, if religion pacified the masses, a predominantly Christian nation like the USA would be a utopia compared to a largely secular place like Sweden. Surprise: America's homicide rate is about five times higher. Want to guess the ratio of religious to nonreligious people in our prisons? This is all correlative, of course, but one can't avoid the observation that such figures reflect badly on religion's purported ability to suppress wickedness, if not inspire good.

Actually, with each generation, Christians and church-goers have decreased pretty steadily. We are a much more violent nation now than we were during the time of our grandparents. The increase of atheism in this country doesn't seem to have helped much. Whether that is due to the "I don't have to care about anyone but myself because we all die alone anyway" mentality of the atheist remains to be seen .........






see what I did there?

 

[zoku88]

Evidently, religion intensifies tribalism, bigotry and violent impulses while burdening moral people with groundless fear, guilt, and a faulty system for contending with life's travails and appreciating its wonders. Two major reason theocratic dictatorships worked in the past were that the elite could restrict education and back their demands with force. (The Dark Ages are so named for good reason.) In modern times, these tactics are no longer viable outside third world countries and isolated communities. Thank God.

I agree with your post up until this point. It was not the modern man, but Renaissance authors that coined that term. And it was for bad reason. The so-called Dark Ages was actually a period of rapid societal improvement and laid the foundations for many aspects of modern society. Like, for example, the power shift from aristocrats to bureaucracy.

There was also the foundation of universities. While centered on religious study, they focused on at least attempting to apply logic to it all. The study of Plato and Aristotle and their logical system.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Actually, with each generation, Christians and church-goers have decreased pretty steadily. We are a much more violent nation now than we were during the time of our grandparents. The increase of atheism in this country doesn't seem to have helped much. Whether that is due to the "I don't have to care about anyone but myself because we all die alone anyway" mentality of the atheist remains to be seen .........






see what I did there?

Atheists aren't the ones preaching that their belief is the core of morality.

Monocle was refuting that line, not suggesting that crime and religion are universally linked.

 

[ultim8p00]

Except religion doesn't keep people under control. It influences people to behave irrationally, or to encourage or tolerate irrationality in others, and bad people to behave just as they please, all with the warrant of an imaginary overseer.

Those good acts one might be tempted to attribute to religion are soured if the concepts of choice and personal responsibility are thrown out the window, as they must be when you're the plaything of a celestial tyrant. "Do what I say and you get to live in heaven and praise me forever. Defy me and I'll torture you for eternity." If that's the way of things, you and I are slaves. Choice doesn't enter into the matter; we're doomed to a hellish fate no matter what we do. Endless pain or endless affirmations of compulsory love. In any case, people can't be held responsible for things that are out of their control, no more than they can be praised for acting selfishly or hypocritically. Doing a virtuous thing "because God said so" is about as righteous as raking your front yard so your mom doesn't ground you.

If religious teachings solve one set of problems, they spawn a host of others. In many parts of central and southern Africa, vast swathes of the population suffer from lack of education, poverty, starvation and disease. How has religion benefited Africans, you might wonder? Well, thanks in great part to the Catholic Church's lies to the effect that condoms allow and even cause sexually transmitted infections, the AIDS epidemic is still killing millions. The ever-growing mountain of bodies it has produced would tower over any building in your city.

Surely, if religion pacified the masses, a predominantly Christian nation like the USA would be a utopia compared to a largely secular place like Sweden. Surprise: America's homicide rate is about five times higher. Want to guess the ratio of religious to nonreligious people in our prisons? This is all correlative, of course, but one can't avoid the observation that such figures reflect badly on religion's purported ability to suppress wickedness, if not inspire good.

Evidently, religion intensifies tribalism, bigotry and violent impulses while burdening moral people with groundless fear, guilt, and a faulty system for contending with life's travails and appreciating its wonders. Two major reason theocratic dictatorships worked in the past were that the elite could restrict education and back their demands with force. (The Dark Ages are so named for good reason.) In modern times, these tactics are no longer viable outside third world countries and isolated communities. Thank God.

Dayumn son, you win. I'm not gonna argue there

But I guess I got a question, do you really think that a fully atheist world would be better? I have a hard time believing that. I think being an atheist requires enough intelligence to understand that even if god isn't watching you, you still have to respect another human as a human.
I get the feeling that people would go NUTS and take advantage of those weaker than them. After all, the laws of other human beings can only be enforced so much and so accurately. I tend to think that that's kind of how religion evolved, as a way to control people (in whatever way necessary).

What do you guys think?

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Dayumn son, you win. I'm not gonna argue there

But I guess I got a question, do you really think that a fully atheist world would be better? I have a hard time believing that. I think being an atheist requires enough intelligence to understand that even if god isn't watching you, you still have to respect another human as a human.
I get the feeling that people would go NUTS and take advantage of those weaker than them. After all, the laws of other human beings can only be enforced so much and so accurately. I tend to think that that's kind of how religion evolved, as a way to control people (in whatever way necessary).

What do you guys think?

84% of Japan has no religion, and they seem to be doing fine, and people all over the world take advantage of the weak no matter their religion.

 

[Kano on the Phone]

Dayumn son, you win. I'm not gonna argue there

But I guess I got a question, do you really think that a fully atheist world would be better? I have a hard time believing that. I think being an atheist requires enough intelligence to understand that even if god isn't watching you, you still have to respect another human as a human.
I get the feeling that people would go NUTS and take advantage of those weaker than them. After all, the laws of other human beings can only be enforced so much and so accurately. I tend to think that that's kind of how religion evolved, as a way to control people (in whatever way necessary).

What do you guys think?

I don't understand what you're asking. You acknowledge that most people who are atheistic are smart enough to understand that you respect other people because it's the right thing to do, then you acknowledge that religion is a means of controlling the weak, but then you're asking if atheism is a means to subjugate people. Your question doesn't jive with your presuppositions.

 

[ultim8p00]

I don't understand what you're asking. You acknowledge that most people who are atheistic are smart enough to understand that you respect other people because it's the right thing to do, then you acknowledge that religion is a means of controlling the weak, but then you're asking if atheism is a means to subjugate people. Your question doesn't jive with your presuppositions.

Well I guess I didn't fully express that. I read an article on how people who choose to become atheist do so because they are of a certain level of intelligence, and not the other way around i.e. being an atheist does not make you intellgent, but rather you are an atheist because you are intelligent (this is all probabilities of course). According to this article, being a theist requires that you ascribe things that happen as not by chance. This trait was a trait that was advantageous to humans as they evolved and it has become ingrained in us. In order for one to go against this ingrained trait, they have to be above average intelligence, and this is why people who are atheist are more likely to be more intelligent.

So what I am thinking is that, if someone who is able to basically kill, steal, etc in the name of their God lives in a world where the consensus is that there is NO god, how do you guys think they will act in such a world? People like that are obviously less likely to see other humans and subjects worthy of respect if they need a god to tell them what to do and cannot think for themselves. In essence, what will replace religion? Education? Idk.

This sounds really condescending, but it's not meant to be. Perhaps there is a less crude way of expressing myself but I don't know.

 

[YoungHav]

If everyone were atheists, nothing would change IMO because humans will always find an excuse to kill, rape, colonize, steal, enslave etc... The fanaticism that goes on with fundamentalism/extremism for example is just powerful or persuasive people controlling the sheep. So in a religious context, yeah it can be a crazy terrorist group killing in the name of God. Remove God from the equation and you can have a movement thats both crazy and secular like the Nazis.

 

[afternoon delight]

Came from a super religious family, and then in the fifth grade learned about the Holocaust. Humanity's actions > the idea of God from then on.

 

[soul creator]

If everyone were atheists, nothing would change IMO because humans will always find an excuse to kill, rape, colonize, steal, enslave etc... The fanaticism that goes on with fundamentalism/extremism for example is just powerful or persuasive people controlling the sheep. So in a religious context, yeah it can be a crazy terrorist group killing in the name of God. Remove God from the equation and you can have a movement thats both crazy and secular like the Nazis.

eh, I'm somewhat skeptical of the "nothing would change!" arguments. It always sounds like saying "even if you cure polio, some other virus like AIDS will just come around and kill us anyway!" Well, sure, but I would still say it's a net positive.

Though to use the Nazi example, it was still authoritarian "god-like" thinking (we're special, and our leader is so revered!) that contributed to that. Technically, the issue is not necessarily just for people to "become atheist", but for people to become more critical thinkers (and a side effect of that is that you tend to reject authoritarianism, which means you reject the most popular current versions of god...and you practically become an atheist anyway)

 

[YoungHav]

eh, I'm somewhat skeptical of the "nothing would change!" arguments. It always sounds like saying "even if you cure polio, some other virus like AIDS will just come around and kill us anyway!" Well, sure, but I would still say it's a net positive.

Though to use the Nazi example, it was still authoritarian "god-like" thinking (we're special, and our leader is so revered!) that contributed to that. Technically, the issue is not necessarily just for people to "become atheist", but for people to become more critical thinkers (and a side effect of that is that you tend to reject authoritarianism, which means you reject the most popular current versions of god...and you practically become an atheist anyway)

I agree with this. I've given up on people though, the world is too big and people are too dumb in general for critical thought to spread like wildfire. :lol boy do I hate the "you should not question God" folks, I've had people tell me this and it's a major facepalm. They might as well be sold to slavers for 350 bottlecaps.

 

[Souldriver]

If everyone were atheists, nothing would change IMO because humans will always find an excuse to kill, rape, colonize, steal, enslave etc... The fanaticism that goes on with fundamentalism/extremism for example is just powerful or persuasive people controlling the sheep. So in a religious context, yeah it can be a crazy terrorist group killing in the name of God. Remove God from the equation and you can have a movement thats both crazy and secular like the Nazis.

Religion encourages irrational thinking, or to put it differently, discourages thinking, so getting rid of the biggest source of insane behavior can never be a bad thing.

So I'm quite sure that, yes, things would change for the better. However, getting rid of religion wouldn't exterminate all (1) the assholes, (2) the medically diagnosed crazies, (3) irrational behaving people. So off course there'd still be injustice and violence in the world. But getting rid of religion would significantly cut down category (3).



For example, without religion, I personally am convinced (I don't have proof though) that other vehicles for fear/war/violence mongering would have a harder time finding an audience. When you've been brought up in religion, taught that there are things you should never question, that there are absolute truths and falsehoods, authorities which words you should live by, books that flat-out show what's wrong and right, who's good and bad, .... then I'm convinced it's also a lot easier to be suckered into the cultus of dictators or political doctrines. Don't question the leader, for he speaks the truth. Live by the party manifesto as it tells you who is good and bad, ... Critical thinking is absent, you're a drone listening to whatever your leader/book/manifesto/god/... says.

The fact that religion is an officially sanctioned institution that undermines critical, logical, rational, independent thinking, is very dangerous. It's one of the ingredients to harmful things of all sorts that exist in this world.

 

[afternoon delight]

It would definitely be for the better, as there would be so many instances eradicated where religion helps create "the other". Not saying we don't find million other ways to do it, but it would eliminate a LOT.

 

[onipex]

The meagre nutritional benefits derived from corn and peanuts do not make a compelling argument for coprophagia.

Coprophagia has nothing to do with corn and peanuts (unless that is what was passed through) just like faith does not go hand and hand with religion.

I've always been intrigued by former atheists...do you mind me asking what happened to make you regain your faith?

I don't fee like going into much detail but I've been through many crappy moments and always came out of them a stronger person. The most significant being cancer.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Coprophagia has nothing to do with corn and peanuts (unless that is what was passed through) just like faith does not go hand and hand with religion.

I think you are misreading my admittedly shitty analogy.

Corn and peanuts = the good elements of something

Log = the rest

 

[Neckbeard]

shitty analogy.

Well played, sir.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

Catholic high school not only made me question religion as a whole, but also made me very tolerant of other religions. Interestingly enough, before high school I had considered being a priest.

Which is kind of ironic. We spent more time in bible study learning about why the bible should not be taken literally than we did actually discussing its message. My school was also very much into gay rights and some other very liberal ideas.

I can see the reason many people need religion in their lives, and I don't think down on them for it. If they need it to keep them happy in life, why should I criticize them.

 

[Shig]

I guess if I had to pinpoint it, it happened on a Catholic school trip to a campsite with lots of Indian religious artifacts and burial mounds and such. Basically I noticed that there are tons of ancient civilizations with tons of religions that everyone, as a matter of course, will say "haha that's CRAZY, what were those guys thinking?" Then they'll turn with a wink and a nod and say "Not like OUR religion, right?" even though, no, wait, it's the exact same silly shit.

Plus just in case one out of the tens of thousands of religions that have existed turns out to be right, it feels like a really bad gamble to pick a religion culpable for oppressing and wiping out tons of other ones. Gordivek the Twelve-Headed Reptile God may not be very forgiving of the team that ran riot on the developing island nation he chose to spread his word.

 

[mokeyjoe]

I guess I was brought up agnostic, but when I was about 12 old and educated enough to really start thinking for myself I had to admit to myself I was an atheist. You have to be able to deny a pretty hefty amount of fact to believe in God and I'm just not made that way.

The only alternative is to dilute the idea of God into some vague 'higher power' but when you do this then you quickly realise you're just creating some custom deity to bend around the facts. The fact is most theists can't answer the question 'what is God?' anyway, and if God for you is whatever you want it to be then it's quite obvious that it's just a personal imaginary invention.

 

[gcubed]

i was brought up catholic, i started losing it when i went to college but every once in a while felt the need for faith... the final straw I think was a combination of me becoming politically aware and my mother being diagnosed with, then dying of cancer 6 months later. Since then i've stopped even pretending around my father and have basically a disdain for it. This never leads me to arguing with anyone about religion. I have my (non)beliefs and people have theirs, if you leave me alone i'll leave you alone, but most times i went to mass when my mom was sick (it made her happy), i sat there the entire time thinking about how bullshit it was. If anything i have more of a negative feeling towards christianity

i did have someone on facebook write a wall post about how her husband was sick and they were waiting for dr jesus to make him better... i immediately deleted her

 

[MrSerrels]

I actually wrote a blog about it here

I reckon I was about nine years old when I decided that God didn't exist. Every now and then I reconsider and have periods where I reevaluate.

 

[Get'sMad]

Probably in mass once when I was about 10-11 and the priest was telling some story about a fisherman who didn't believe in god and then the fisherman got caught in the storm and was "begging for god's help" and god was just like "I thought you didn't believe in me, man? why should I help you?"

it was then that I realized religion was stupid.

 

[Bidermaier]

I realized when I had to imagine special effects in mass to make it more realistic.

But now I believe in god.

The point is that god is just an abstract idea. Killing ideas is stupid. God is an expresion of the human kind. You just can't kill it.

I think it is way better to try to understand the concept rather than saying no!!!. It stimulates your material mind and makes you a wiser person. Start wondering why we do keep talking about things that dont exist, then start developing your thoughts about god and then you will end up believing in god, just in a different way.

That being said, with the huge amount of people saying so much bullshit in the name of god I totally sympathize with those just rejecting god.

 

[Dan Yo]

I guess I was brought up agnostic, but when I was about 12 old and educated enough to really start thinking for myself I had to admit to myself I was an atheist. You have to be able to deny a pretty hefty amount of fact to believe in God and I'm just not made that way.

The only alternative is to dilute the idea of God into some vague 'higher power' but when you do this then you quickly realise you're just creating some custom deity to bend around the facts. The fact is most theists can't answer the question 'what is God?' anyway, and if God for you is whatever you want it to be then it's quite obvious that it's just a personal imaginary invention.

God is whatever you want him to be? I must have missed that lesson in religion class.

 

[Nameless]

Even when I believed in God I was never really a religious person. My parents raised me with little-no religious influence(no church, no bible study, no what would jesus do's etc). Holidays were celebrated the same way--the fact that most of my classmates went to church on X-mas morning always seemed strange to me.

Most of my father's side of the family are Jehovah's Witnesses and while he was kicked out at 20yo that didn't stop others in the family from force feeding me the 'truth'. My mother's family are mostly Methodist and they did the same although to a far lesser degree.

Being raised in a mostly secular household coupled with the unavoidable confusion of having told two different ideologies presented as the absolute truth made me ripe for a heretical existence as an adult. If I had to pinpoint a specific moment, though, where things truly began to shift I would point to a random day in 8th grade when I decided to looked up Jehovah's Witnesses on a library computer. Here I learned it was created, and relatively recently at that by some guy who disagreed with the Church's teachings. Just a guy. The fact that millions of people believed so passionately in some random person's fan fiction version of Christianity as fact was pretty fucking jarring. Things slowly went up or down hill from there depending on who you ask.

 

[Brashnir]

Grew up with a very devout Catholic father and a mother who believed but wasn't nearly as devoted. Both parents taught me to believe, and encouraged faith. I went to Sunday School as a kid and was confirmed in the Catholic church at 13, but by that time I was long gone down the road of non-belief.

Despite going to weekly mass, both of my parents also taught me to think critically and not to take anything for granted when it came to everything other than church. It wasn't long before I connected the dots and found my own way. I think my father still resents my disbelief, but I can't really do anything about that. He's the one who gave me the tools to begin with.

 

[Dude Abides]

God is whatever you want him to be? I must have missed that lesson in religion class.

That's all he's ever been.

 

[Nocebo]

God is whatever you want him to be? I must have missed that lesson in religion class.

You must not hear / read a lot of opinions from individual religious folk.

 

[54-46!]

Never, raised atheist.. just like every other Swede I guess.

 

[hateradio]

I was probalby about eight or nine when I realized that god was nonexistant. I just started thinking about the sky, the clouds, the hidden stars behind the blue, the infinite number of galaxies, the imposibility of a human-like entity creating the earth. A being who after creating this planet then decided to tell someone to write a book about it seemed out of place. (However, that does sound pretty human-like. Egotism). I just thought about distances, space, time, and how there was more to it than this planet.

I also though about how god "exists" in the minds of the people who believe in him (her/it), but how he does not physically exist. Like any other character in a book, he exists as a creation of humanity and in the minds of humanity.

That was all.

 

[Always-honest]

So you are just one of those people who look at every negative thing that comes out of religion and ignores the positive things people get out of faith.

what positive things are that? eternal doubt? fear?

 

[Jasup]

There was one kind of moment of realization for me. I was at a funeral in a church when it hit me that there are people who actually believe the stuff they read from the bible is real.

Before that I always considered religion to be a cultural relic, like folk music, people practiced just to keep the old traditions alive.

 

[Dan Yo]

You must not hear / read a lot of opinions from individual religious folk.

I do and I have. Any "religious folk" (Christians I'm assuming) who think the church teaches that God is whatever you make him to be don't really know anything about their religion.

 

[Souldriver]

I do and I have. Any "religious folk" (Christians I'm assuming) who think the church teaches that God is whatever you make him to be don't really know anything about their religion.

Did you even read Monkeyjoe's post? He never said all religious people chose how they view God. He talked about two things.

1) If you're truly, deeply religious, you have to take all of the details and stupidity that comes with your religion, and that makes for a hefty amount of denial of what is factually impossible or wrong.

2) If you're not all that theistic, but rather agnostic, you can try to bend the idea of a god until it is either something as vague as "higher power", or something you are satisfied with and can live by. In this situation you're basically creating a definition of your own God. Once you realize that it is your personal imaginary invention, you should also realize that the chances of it being true are next to none.


Yet you responded, claiming he said that "everyone choses his religion"... Stop inventing arguments.

 

[Nocebo]

I do and I have. Any "religious folk" (Christians I'm assuming) who think the church teaches that God is whatever you make him to be don't really know anything about their religion.

There's more religious folk than Christians of course you know that. So on that higher zoomed out perspective of religious folk we already know that God is whatever you want him to be already. Your God can have 6 arms and be Blue or this bearded guy living up on a mountain or this bearded guy who is actually 3 guys at the same time, all with beard though.

Which ever feels nicest to you. But other than that within the Christian faith there are also many different Gods. You have your homosexual hating God and a God who is neutral towards homosexuals. The God that uses evolution as a means to an end versus the God that is an intelligent designer that popped things into existence out of nothing or living beings out of dirt.

It all seems fine by the church doesn't it? Or else you just switch to a church that's fine with it. There's not like a governing body that enforces a consistent view here.

I think you know what I mean but you're just being daft on purpose?

 

[Dan Yo]

There's more religious folk than Christians of course you know that. So on that higher zoomed out perspective of religious folk we already know that God is whatever you want him to be already. Your God can have 6 arms and be Blue or this bearded guy living up on a mountain or this bearded guy who is actually 3 guys at the same time, all with beard though.

Which ever feels nicest to you. But other than that within the Christian faith there are also many different Gods. You have your homosexual hating God and a God who is neutral towards homosexuals. The God that uses evolution as a means to an end versus the God that is an intelligent designer that popped things into existence out of nothing or living beings out of dirt.

It all seems fine by the church doesn't it? Or else you just switch to a church that's fine with it. There's not like a governing body that enforces a consistent view here.

I think you know what I mean but you're just being daft on purpose?

Some people have different interpretations of what the Bible is saying about God, yes, but what you implied was that people just apply their own personal ideas and values to the God they want to create.

For the record, most Christians who know anything about their religion know that the Christian God is not "homosexual-hating".

 

[Jea Song]

Never grew up religious. There was the traditional go to church on easter, and christmas occasional. Sometimes we would go sunday's but this was very rare. Church is the most boring thing in the world when you are a kid, so that didn't help. Sometimes father would tell us to "gather around my children and let's read from the bible" where me and my siblings would read some passages. I had no damn clue what was going on but just read the words. At the end he would tel us about how soon jesus will come and you better be good and believe in him or your gonna go to hell kinda stuff. But one day I asked him a question. I asked him what about all those people that don't believe in jesus? And what if they are the nicest most caring people in the world? He said, they go directly to hell. I then asked what about bad people, that did bad things, but somehow believed in jesus. Do they go to heaven? My dad said yes.


As far as prayers went, Id pray but it wasnt for anything specific. Until one day. I use to be basketball collector when I was 10. I was about to buy a pack when I just thought, well maybe i'll pray to god and ask if I can get a michael jordan card. I prayed really fast, " please god let me get a michael jordan card amen" Well turns out the pack I got indeed did contain a michael jordan card. It actually reconfirmed my believe at that time as silly as that sounds.


I also remember one time when I was about 11 I decided to leave my bike right outside of my door step. I would normally chain it up, but decided not to for some reason that night. Turns out it was stolen the next morning. I cried kinda cause I me and my friend had plans to ride further we ever have that day. I remember one neighbor lady who found out came up to me within that moment, and told me how maybe god had a plan for it to be stolen, and it was meant to be. WTF?




It was then that I started to question this, and had some very very serious doubts. Years later I stumbled upon youtube and watch Richard Dawkins. What he said was making total sense to me. I then read the GOD Delusion, started to understand evolution, and science.

 

[revolverjgw]

I don't remember. I was raised Catholic but it was quite casual... I never bought into it and was never aggressively forced or encouraged to buy into it. I stopped going to church once I was old enough to make my own decisions. I think I've always been atheist.

Whatever. My walking away from "practicing" religion hasn't been a big deal with any of the religious people in my family (a minority now). And I have nothing against it, never hated having to go to church or resented any of the people or ideas or anything. I've had nothing but good experiences with religious people and organizations, there are no zealots here, and actually our priest just died last week and I feel really bad about not having seen him for a few years.

 

[Jintor]

Some people have different interpretations of what the Bible is saying about God, yes, but what you implied was that people just apply their own personal ideas and values to the God they want to create.

For the record, most Christians who know anything about their religion know that the Christian God is not "homosexual-hating".

I was going to quote some Bible passages at you, but it turns out that one of the first results (the actual first result is a diatribe against homosexuality, soyeah) is a page disassembling the notion that the Bible as it was written (or as it was constructed, perhaps) contains any passages regarding condemnation of homosexuality. It appears to be written by a Christian scholar, which is rather refreshing.

Anyway, in that Christians who do not know anything about their religion claim that their god is 'homosexual hating' and still do in fact call themselves Christians and profess to believe in God exist, I would say that people do apply their own personal ideas and values to the God they want to create. That you seperate them out as 'not true Christians' (or whatever) just speaks more about your values, etc.

 

[Onny]

I grew up in an extremely religious household - my dad is a pastor, and throughout my life I have rarely met anyone as devoted to Christianity as him. It really does inform every decision he makes in his life, and he is conscious of it every waking moment.

He used to be a larger-than-life character; he had a booming laugh, he was big, friendly, and looked a bit like Santa. On his single day off in the week, he would go for long walks with my mum, or paint. Those were, really, his only two hobbies.

I always grew up believing "something" - I was probably best described as being agnostic. I had times when I would "fall away" and times when I would be super-hardcore Christian Warrior. But even in the times when I "fell away" I would still believe; even though I would cuss frequently, I would never take the Lord's name in vain, for example.

10 years ago, when I was at Uni, my dad phoned me up one day to tell me he had been diagnosed with Parkinsons. I was pretty shocked, as you might imagine. Over the next few years I struggled with my faith somewhat, and read a lot of literature with regard to the age-old "how can there be a God if there is human suffering?" argument - mostly with a Christian bias, I admit.

But as time goes on, as with all parkinsons cases, my dad becomes less and less of his former self.

And it breaks my heart to the point that a few years ago I decided that really, there is no God. Yes, the "human suffering" argument is horribly cliche, but my dad had two hobbies, and two hobbies only, and now he cannot do either of them because of this terrible disease. And why has he been afflicted with it? If Christianity is to be believed, it is the fault of God.

My wife (and as of recently, my first child) will never know the boisterous, jolly man I knew - all they will know is the near-silent, frail person who finds it hard to even make facial expressions.


So, yeah. Fuck you, God. Fuck you.

 

[iapetus]

(The Dark Ages are so named for good reason.)

Actually not true. See here and various other places for an explanation of why.