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[i_am_ben]

for what it's worth a very recent survey (dec 1st) found that despite high levels of immigration views on migrants are actually quite high and much better than they used to be.

link

There has been a fundamental change in attitude to immigration

POSITIVE attitudes to immigration are weathering the economic downturn, suggesting there has been a fundamental shift away from viewing migrants as scapegoats for societal problems.

The Mapping Social Cohesion Survey of 3500 people, to be released today, shows that only 37 per cent of Australians believe the migrant intake is too high, virtually unchanged from when the economy was booming in 2007.

It is also well down from the 60-70 per cent range during the recession-hit early 1990s and the height of Hansonism in 1996-98.

But the survey underscored the potential for ethnic tensions to flare in some poor areas, finding that nearly 70 per cent of long-time Australians living in areas with large numbers of immigrants believed too many were coming into the country.

These areas also tended to be economically disadvantaged, suggesting they could become trouble spots if the economy worsened and unemployment jumped significantly.

Report author Andrew Markus of Monash University said: "The potential is that if the economy goes sour and we again find ourselves in a situation of 10-15 per cent unemployment, we may have a different outcome

(to the positive survey results) in areas of high immigrant concentration."

Professor Markus said he was surprised that attitudes about migrants had not been hardened by the economic downturn. When Australia was last in recession, in 1991, anti-immigration sentiment was measured at a 30-year high.

In the latest survey, 68 per cent of respondents agreed that immigration made the country stronger, while only 9 per cent had strongly negative views on immigration and diversity.

Business tycoon Peter Scanlon, whose Scanlon Foundation funds the survey, said the positive views on immigration suggested there had been a fundamental shift in attitudes.

He said migrants were no longer seen as "scapegoats" for problems but as key to helping offset Australia's ageing population. "There is an enormous maturity that has grown since the 1980s about understanding the role that diversity plays, and that it is part of Australia," Mr Scanlon said.

Professor Markus said the data highlighted the need to address public safety and crime in poorer areas with large immigrant populations.

so, according to this survey, @ 70% think Immigration 'makes the country stronger' and @10% have 'strongly negative views' on it. I think that would be in line with most other western nations so I wouldn't worry too much about a bunch of bogans on facebook.

Always room for improvement of course!

 

[BowieZ]

ITT: people make sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence.

Australia has a unique balance of cultures -- each as different from the other as you can imagine -- and the speed with which cultural change is taking place is unsurprisingly STARTLING to the majority of people already living here. To (a) judge Australians from your limited anecdotal experience; or (b) hold Australians to the same standards as other countries that don't have the same cultural blend or aren't becoming as multi-cultural as quickly as Australia is, is wrong.

 

[SmokyDave]

Haha I am calm dude. Just wanted to state that before this thread went (to shit) into a debate about how they are/aren't mutually exclusive.

Oh, no, I definitely wasn't trying to say that. If anything I'd almost say they were mutually inclusive. It would be difficult to be a xenophobic nationalist without being racist. Possible, but difficult. It's just that the OP came of as xenophobic and ethnocentric but I couldn't really get the racism as I have no idea which groups Aussies are having issues with and whether those groups are divided by racial or cultural lines.

 

[daemonic]

What kind of racial remarks? Examples?

I specifically didn't provide examples since some of them are best not repeated, but there is one specifically that really got to me. I went into work one morning slightly unshaven and without so much as a hello my manager jokingly accused me of looking like a "thieving black man", which she thought was funny as hell. She then proceded to go around the office telling everyone her little "joke". So many things wrong with that remark I don't even know where to begin. The racial profiling or the fact that I'm not even black. I look Persian if anything so she was just way way off.

Anyway as I said already, I'm not gonna hold several bad experiences against an entire nation. I'm actually heading to Sydney this Christmas so hopefully I can see a better side of the people and come back with a positive impression.

 

[Darklord]

Hmmm...yeah it is a bit of a mud-slinging match. Asians (including Indians) are also extremely racist. However, I'm not sure if it's so much "I refuse to adjust to your ways" as opposed to "I want to be who I am". That's not to say they shouldn't put in some effort into learning the local culture and language, but I've heard from some of my students who WENT THERE TO LEARN ENGLISH that they faced extremely stiff racism, which forced them to hang out with more of their own kind. Hell, one of them was a really hot Korean girl who said some Aussies spit at, swore at, and hurled rocks at her.

Personally, I only know 2 Aussies, and they're far from racist. One of them explained that it was just how Aussies are. They're fiercely "Australian". Perhaps it's just a cultural thing as here in North America, we're generally more open to different cultures and it's ok to do your own thing.

Though Canada IS more multicultural than Australia, it's a whole can of worms that got me banned last time...so I'll leave it as Canada's racism is a lot more subtle/subdued.

I'm not going to lie, some Australian's are real jerks but I can't see it any different to other countries. We have the bogans who get the southern cross tattoos and have 6 Australian flags and call everyone cunts but thats like all places. Some American's are incredibly patriotic and are the same way. Same with England.

 

[Kuro Madoushi]

:lol :lol :lol X infinite

That is the biggest pile of shit i've read in my entire life. FACT.

Cause you think I made it up, or that it isn't believable? Believe what you want; I was shocked when I heard it myself. She was there to learn English, went out clubbing and barhopping, and then on the way back the spitting and insults and shit occurred, that's what she described.

Could just be an isolated incident, I never heard about rock throwing from other students, but definitely the swearing/racial comments/etc.

Edit: Darklord...hmmm...yeah that's an excellent point. I never thought of it that way. Maybe it's because there aren't too many fiercely patriotic Canadians that I haven't seen this kind of stuff from them. I *have* heard of similar stuff from blindly patriotic Americans before.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

racists are everywhere just don't be one and you're golden.

White beach surfer tough guys in aussie are quite the racist fucks on a regular basis apparently, but what can you do?

 

[firehawk12]

I'm not going to lie, some Australian's are real jerks but I can't see it any different to other countries. We have the bogans who get the southern cross tattoos and have 6 Australian flags and call everyone cunts but thats like all places. Some American's are incredibly patriotic and are the same way. Same with England.

Here's the thing - the skinheads and hicks are almost a write off.

I still remember this Chaser clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPO2nLvenlQ

Basically, the people who don't shave their heads are the ones that you need to pay attention to. They're not going to go around being violent, but there's a clear "us" and "them" mentality.

 

[Metroid Killer]

I hate people who come to our land to live but still talk there own language, not english. I also fucking hate people who leave there country and still create there own culture groups over here. Whats the fucking point in coming down under in the first place. cant stand these arseholes that dont speak english when standing around near me, your in myn fuckin country speak my fuckin language. thats right i am 100% pure aussie and i love it!

Oh the irony

Spoiler

(and my native language isn't even english... sigh)

 

[eggandI]

Oh, no, I definitely wasn't trying to say that. If anything I'd almost say they were mutually inclusive. It would be difficult to be a xenophobic nationalist without being racist. Possible, but difficult. It's just that the OP came of as xenophobic and ethnocentric but I couldn't really get the racism as I have no idea which groups Aussies are having issues with and whether those groups are divided by racial or cultural lines.

Got ya.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPO2nLvenlQ

"I'm not racist or anything" :lol this phrase is reaching godlike status, FAST.

 

[tabsina]

ITT: people make sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence.

Australia has a unique balance of cultures -- each as different from the other as you can imagine -- and the speed with which cultural change is taking place is unsurprisingly STARTLING to the majority of people already living here. To (a) judge Australians from your limited anecdotal experience; or (b) hold Australians to the same standards as other countries that don't have the same cultural blend or aren't becoming as multi-cultural as quickly as Australia is, is wrong.

couldn't have put it better myself

 

[speedpop]

You're all racist shits. Stop calling my kind "Abos" cause it is disrespectful.

 

[POWERSPHERE]

Fuckheads know no creed.

 

[i_am_ben]

I would really like to know why B!tch dislikes Australians. He's said it in quite a few threads.

Maybe an Australian went a step too far when taking the piss out of him?

 

[Darklord]

You're all racist shits. Stop calling my kind "Abos" cause it is disrespectful.

Because EVERONE calls them "Abos". Everyone.

 

[eggandI]

ITT: people make sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence.

Australia has a unique balance of cultures -- each as different from the other as you can imagine -- and the speed with which cultural change is taking place is unsurprisingly STARTLING to the majority of people already living here. To (a) judge Australians from your limited anecdotal experience; or (b) hold Australians to the same standards as other countries that don't have the same cultural blend or aren't becoming as multi-cultural as quickly as Australia is, is wrong.

I'm sure it was pretty startling and horrific to the Aborigenes during the stolen generations and whatnot. Cultural diversity isn't going to make Australia explode (at least not yet!!) but what it will do is bring out the real faces of a lot of people.

I'm sure Australians will make it through this immigrant invasion. Their kids aren't being taken away by Muslims.....yet!

 

[daemonic]

ITT: people make sweeping generalizations based on anecdotal evidence.

Australia has a unique balance of cultures -- each as different from the other as you can imagine -- and the speed with which cultural change is taking place is unsurprisingly STARTLING to the majority of people already living here. To (a) judge Australians from your limited anecdotal experience; or (b) hold Australians to the same standards as other countries that don't have the same cultural blend or aren't becoming as multi-cultural as quickly as Australia is, is wrong.

Bound to happen, which is why these type of threads shouldn't be made period. Though it would be nice to be informed of any progress the country is making in terms of racial tolerance. I honestly haven't look into it much but I'll see what I can find.

 

[firehawk12]

"I'm not racist or anything" :lol this phrase is reaching godlike status, FAST.

Hah, yeah. It's the false sense of liberalism that we all seem to have when we feel some anxiety over race (or a similar issue).

I'm reminded of a joke by an American comedian whose name I can't remember:
"White people don't mind that I'm black... until I tell them that I'm dating their sister."

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

My own personal experience Oz was a mixed bag.

Most people were OK. I did notice there was some tension towards South Asians and Lebanese people? Aboriginals have been treated as well as Native Americans, and if you threw in a very healthy helping of Jim Crow. It still lingers.

Things directed at me:

1. 2 Aussies very much insisting I was Samoan. I'm 6'1" and at the time, had finished my first year of D1 college football, so, was walking around at a jacked 280, so I kind of entertained it, seeing as how they were extremely inebriated. As I got annoyed with their drunkenness, I then became Tongan. I'm assuming Tongans are more irritable than Samoans? Then the drunken Aussie rules football vs. American football challenge, I mean, I was a D1 athlete against 2 drunk blokes in their late 30's. I did get called a slant eyed bastard, etc. I just wrote it off to the drunkenness. And tackling a guy so hard that he shit himself made me less angry.

2. People had a very weird attitude towards Koreans there. Not treated as openly as HK'ers. Maybe a crown loyalty brotherhood thing there. They either like Koreans alot, (hardworking, kind, quiet, model minority stuff) or they kinda fear/hate them. Now, most of the cousins I have in Australia, are not the cousins that my parents prefer I associate with. They are mostly cousins of my dad. And for the most part, they are in organized crime. I mean, I dunno outright but, you know, if they dress like mobsters and act like mobsters and have standards of living which are not proportional to their level of education/effort put into work, I mean, what can you say?

I mean most of the dudes in Australia, kinda remind for the most part of Southern good ol' boys. Its not that they are actively racist, I just think there is a ingrained cultural part of it.

Also, I hate Canada. I dunno why. I admit its irrational. Wait, I take that back. I don't hate Canada, I hate US citizens who fellate Canada as some magical place.

 

[Fersis]

I like Australia, it has Koalas and Platipus

*Hugs Australia*

 

[Dilly]

Yes, Belgium and The Netherlands are racist because of Sinterklaas, the Swiss are racist, Australia is racist, Denmark is offcourse very racist.

It's cool to be racist, everything is racist these days!

 

[Kentpaul]

my dad went over for 3 years, since he's scottish everyone was ok with him

 

[Trevelyon]

You're all racist shits. Stop calling my kind "Abos" cause it is disrespectful.

Okay, tell your mob to stop calling me and my kind 'white fellas' and we'll work something out.

 

[catchabad0ne]

From my own experience of living and working and going to Uni in Australia as a Caucasian American Male:

Going to Uni in Sydney I met a ton of young 18 to 20 somethings who were intelligent, open minded, tolerant people who were fascinated by foreigners. Outside of Uni I saw a whole lot of pretty open racism towards Asian people, particularly those who didn't assimilate and who didn't speak English. In NSW and Sydney in particular I did not see much racism towards anyone else, not even aborigines. In fact, most in Sydney seemed sympathetic towards aborigines.

A couple of years later I moved back, but this time to Townsville/Thuringowa, Queensland to work. This time, because of probably a severe lack of Asians I saw absolutely no racism towards them. However, pretty much every body there hated the Aborigines with a passion. Yes they were a lot more visible here than in Sydney, and yes there was a lot of issues with alcohol and violence with the local aboriginal population, but there was absolutely no compassion towards those people. Saw fights and yelling between white Australians and indigenous people a few times a month it seemed. All of my coworkers would talk shit about the "abo's" all the time, we were instructed to watch them closely when they came in the shop and to try and not let more than one or two in at a time if we could help it.

Honestly racism is alive and well in Australia, I'd wonder what part of Oz the OP lived in where he never saw it.

I've got more stories, more personal ones about intolerance towards me, but I don't have time right now.

Actually,Cliff's note version, an old Aussie lady said that if was gonna live in Oz I need to learn to speak like an Aussie and that she couldn't understand anything I was saying. This coming from a lady who lives in a country that gets 90 percent of its entertainment from the US. smh

 

[Vormund]

Then this evening i stumbled upon a facebook group that a bunch of my friends had been joining. "IF YOU DONT LIKE AUSTRALIA ........WELL FUCK OFF".

Just regarding this....I do actually know where they are coming from. (Although there doesn't need to be a facebook group for it sheesh)

Basically certain ethnic groups here.... (I won't elaborate) tend to give off the impression that they hate being in Australia etc, it's better in their parents homeland blah blah.

So yeah basically, if you hate it so much here, why don't you head over there? Nobody is stopping you.

 

[speedpop]

Because EVERONE calls them "Abos". Everyone.

You over-generalizing piece of shit!

Okay, tell your mob to stop calling me and my kind 'white fellas' and we'll work something out.

We're just preparing some pure paint for you to inhale man.. that's all. Why you hate?

So yeah basically, if you hate it so much here, why don't you head over there? Nobody is stopping you.

This is where things become hazy.. because from what I remember as a kid growing up the whole "if you don't love this country then leave!" notion comes from the United States.. you know, a country that inherently our culture is supposed to hate because they deem themselves higher than us?

It's kinda ironic that I see Australian flags waving around before and after Australia Day, and the stickers "DON'T LOVE IT? THEN LEAVE!" on the back of their cars and all I can think of is that Australia is becoming a nation that they once swore they would never become.

 

[Byakuya769]

Seems more like ethnocentrism than racism.

Yep.

 

[Prine]

I know they hate England. Racists.

 

[X26]

so why aren't the people in that facebook group speaking in a Pama-Nyungan language?

 

[SmokyDave]

I know they hate England. Racists.

We English are not a race. They kind of have good reason to hate us too, we delivered them unto all the worlds most dangerous crawly stuff.

 

[speedpop]

We English are not a race. They kind of have good reason to hate us too, we delivered them unto all the worlds most dangerous crawly stuff.

Well that depends upon the tales you tell.

According to my Scottish, Irish, and Welsh great-grandparents... they came here by choice. I suppose living a life among the most dangerous animals of all time was more exciting than living amongst the English.

 

[VelvetMouth]

One thing you can count on with Australians and South Africans when you meet them abroad is how they won't shut up about how things are so much better back home. There was one guy on an expat forum I used to post on who offered free plane tickets to the when-we's but nobody ever took him up on his offer. They've lived in Europe and the US for years and don't planning on returning to 'back home' but by god things were so much better back there.

As for being racist, I don't think the ones I've come across were racist they just didn't give a shit about being politically correct and they like complaining and taking the piss out of everything and everyone.

 

[SmokyDave]

Well that depends upon the tales you tell.

According to my Scottish, Irish, and Welsh great-grandparents... they came here by choice. I suppose living a life among the most dangerous animals of all time was more exciting than living amongst the English.

You'd have to count the number of legs to know the difference.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

you know what? nvm.

I'm Aussie and I'm sick of people hating on living here when they say they would enjoy being elsewhere. Be elsewhere.

 

[speedpop]

One thing you can count on with Australians and South Africans when you meet them abroad is how they won't shut up about how things are so much better back home. There was one guy on an expat forum I used to post on who offered free plane tickets to the when-we's but nobody ever took him up on his offer. They've lived in Europe and the US for years and don't planning on returning to 'back home' but by god things were so much better back there.

As for being racist, I don't think the ones I've come across were racist they just didn't give a shit about being politically correct and they like complaining and taking the piss out of everything and everyone.

That's pretty much it, sadly. I call it a stubborn and lack of feelings (or is that gratitude?) towards others of racial differences, regardless of whether they are white, black, or yellow. Any sense of notion has disappeared out the door over the years they don't care to reclaim it... which is why shit like this keeps appearing, why shit like the Cronulla riots happened even though mainstream media were so surprised (shock fucking horror) about it, why the statement "unAustralian" is rising up over the past couple of years and why it is so fucking embarrassing.

You'd have to count the number of legs to know the difference.

Oh don't worry. The average Australian seems to have a lot of trouble disputing the notion of trouble between two legs and four legs.

 

[FormallyMegadrive]

That's pretty much it, sadly. I call it a stubborn and lack of feelings (or is that gratitude?) towards others of racial differences, regardless of whether they are white, black, or yellow. Any sense of notion has disappeared out the door over the years they don't care to reclaim it... which is why shit like this keeps appearing, why shit like the Cronulla riots happened even though mainstream media were so surprised (shock fucking horror) about it, why the statement "unAustralian" is rising up over the past couple of years and why it is so fucking embarrassing.


Oh don't worry. The average Australian seems to have a lot of trouble disputing the notion of trouble between two legs and four legs.

Cronulla pretty much helped me give up on Australia. My friend was afraid of leaving his house for a couple of weeks because he thought he'd get beaten up, much like the Indians are getting beaten up for no apparent reason around my neighbourhood recently.

 

[Peronthious]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbit-Proof_Fence_(film)

 

[speedpop]

Ah it's nice to see an Australian audience with a subjective viewpoint upon this discussion rather than grasping for needles.

 

[SmokyDave]

Ah it's nice to see an Australian audience with a subjective viewpoint upon this discussion rather than grasping for needles.

With a view to being educated on this matter, could you explain which groups are at play here? Someone earlier gave a fairly good description of the 'Us' element, described as 'Bogans'? but who is the 'Them'?

The link to the Cronulla riots shows there were high tensions between the Australians and the Lebanese, are the Lebanese 'Them'? Is it immigrants from Islamic cultures? Arrogant western expats? Is this conflict drawn along racial lines, cultural lines, religion or all of the above?

It seems that the issue of racism in Australia is increasingly in the news but I can't really tell if it's directed at Aborigines, recent immigrants or both. I'd like to know because I flirt with the idea of emigrating to Oz from time to time, I have some family over there.

 

[EmSeta]

Seems more like ethnocentrism than racism.

Yep. People throw around the word "racism" a little too casually.

 

[DeadGzuz]

The Aussies I know are all ignorant and racist. My brother married one and my brother, sister-in-law, niece and nephew live there. These are not the big city folk with college degrees, they are the equivalent of the US south, just with different accents.

 

[NekoFever]

I'll always remember when I was in Australia and visited one of my dad's old friends. I was stopping in Japan for a week on the way home, and he goes to me, "Listen. I know some people think we're racist, but if you want racist, wait 'til you get a load of the Japs."

 

[Rentahamster]

What's that guy complaining about?

Australians don't really speak English either.

:lol zing.

But seriously, that sort of sentiment isn't exclusive to Austria.

 

[mrkgoo]

Hating Australians is acceptable if you're a New Zealander.




Reminds me of the episode of Flight of the Conchords where the Indian guy was 'racist' against New Zealanders, so it was all bad and stuff, but when you find out he meant Australians, it was all cool. :loll

Anyway, 'Australian' isn't even really a 'race', however you define that.

Anywhere you go, you get the 'racist' card pulled. Over in New Zealand you hear about Australian racism vs. the aboriginal people. In Auckland New Zealand, you hear people complain about all the Asians, and how walking down the street you feel like you're in a foreign country.

Often they're just observations perhaps harshly (over)stated, and often out of context.

Whatever, though. You get morons in every nation, every culture, every 'class'. That's universal.

 

[dejay]

With a view to being educated on this matter, could you explain which groups are at play here? Someone earlier gave a fairly good description of the 'Us' element, described as 'Bogans'? but who is the 'Them'?

The link to the Cronulla riots shows there were high tensions between the Australians and the Lebanese, are the Lebanese 'Them'? Is it immigrants from Islamic cultures? Arrogant western expats? Is this conflict drawn along racial lines, cultural lines, religion or all of the above?

It seems that the issue of racism in Australia is increasingly in the news but I can't really tell if it's directed at Aborigines, recent immigrants or both. I'd like to know because I flirt with the idea of emigrating to Oz from time to time, I have some family over there.

In Sydney the "Lebanese" are quite often first generation Australians with Lebanese parents, and not the actual people who came over. These first generation Australians are still called "Lebs" though.

When two or more large cultural groups are together in the same schools, you'll often get division and mistrust between the two groups. As they get older they often stick together and it forms an us vs them mentality. It's the same with certain Asian communities here. When groups of loud, proud youth of a certain nationality are in your face, the xenophobia comes out in a lot of people.

Now, with groups of adolescents of the same race are hostile to others, it creates tension between the groups. This is what essentially happened in Cronulla. It's not a representation of just that area - text messages ensured that a lot of rednecks converged on the area on that day, a lot of whom were affected by alcohol. It was started when a lifeguard was bashed by a group (I think) of Lebanese guys the week before.

It should be noted that there has been many bloody conflicts between ethnic groups in the suburbs of Sydney. The Lebanese and Vietnamese often have a go at each other in what would probably be termed ethnic gang wars. Ethnic fighting is nothing new to anywhere with any kind of ethnic diversity. London has it's share of them. It's just when white people take part of it, the whole country gets tarnished.

There are large areas of rednecks in Australia - areas that could be equated with the South of the U.S. Rural areas, like Townsville as mentioned before, tend to be more prone to this than highly urbanised, cosmopolitan areas like Sydney and Melbourne. There's more respect given to Aborigines in the latter places, but they tend to have greater ethnic tensions as I outlined in the first paragraphs. There's strong racism against Aborigines in a lot of rural areas, but there's also a lot of Aborigine crime, poverty and drug abuse in those areas too.

 

[Phobophile]

Frankly, any nation that sells Coon cheese HAS to be racist.

 

[Zaptruder]

The Aussies I know are all ignorant and racist. My brother married one and my brother, sister-in-law, niece and nephew live there. These are not the big city folk with college degrees, they are the equivalent of the US south, just with different accents.

On the flipside, 70% of our population are capital city bound.

 

[DKehoe]

My sister worked in Australia for 6 months and said she was surprised by how openly discriminatory people were to aboriginals.

 

[mollipen]

i agree with you there, it would be a great hinderance to them if they didn't learn English. Probably make settling in a lot harder, near impossible. but to tell them they have to is something else.

If an English speaker moves to Japan, should they be expected to learn to speak Japanese? Learn Chinese if they move to China? Learn Korean if they move to South Korea?

 

[Nachkebia]

Every nation is racist or nationalist, otherwise it wont survive in its historic form, I don`t want zillions of Chinese or Indian people in my country because I want my country to keep its historical face but I am not racist, so yeah I hate when people blame everything on racism...