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Back to the Center, Democrats (NYT Op-ed)
- Thread starter entremet
- Start date
entremet
Member
I remember that, but I speaking more around election season. Bernie got more flack for trying to compound minority plight as economic in nature primarily.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Clinton was the most liberal Democrat candidate we'd have had in decades. She is more liberal than Obama.
The GOP went full looney toons right wing.
They now have a majority that appears to be incapable of actually governing.
This is not a path you want to follow.
/|\
Air Zombie Meat
Member
Sharply leftist ideas like universal healthcare amirite
The left cares too much about their ideology and policy. Arguments revolve around what ideas will win over voters, as if it's possible to find some idea that will carry them to victory. This focus on ideology leads to a lot of very public in-fighting in the lefts coalition.
Republicans are also a coalition with internal disagreements, but they manage to keep these to themselves. And then they put in the work to win local, state and ultimately federal elections, rather than thinking their ideas can carry them. (And now they have to confront that their ideas on the ACA are very unpopular, but they won).
Republicans are also a coalition with internal disagreements, but they manage to keep these to themselves. And then they put in the work to win local, state and ultimately federal elections, rather than thinking their ideas can carry them. (And now they have to confront that their ideas on the ACA are very unpopular, but they won).
entremet
Member
Clinton's issue was perception, partly an issue of a decades long smear campaign by the Right, and packaging. She didn't sell her message well enough. And I'm being very fair to Clinton. I was harsher during the election loss since we got Trump. But her issue was more tactical in nature, neglecting the Blue Wall.
Well progressivism is about challenging the status quo, so you will have that herding cat, loose coalition with the Democrats. The GOP has basically marginalized moderates out of the national space.
Winning isn't worth sacrificing intelligent policy for slightly less insane policies.
Raven117
Member
Im very curious to see how the Democrats respond to this. I think 2018, due to it being a non-presidential year will probably break in favor of Republicans, especially with the fact that I doubt Democrats have the ground game ready.
For 2020...this is very interesting. Do the Democrats go center, like this article says, or goes further to the left?
My bet is that they go further to the left. But what do I know?
For 2020...this is very interesting. Do the Democrats go center, like this article says, or goes further to the left?
My bet is that they go further to the left. But what do I know?
GurgleBot20
Member
There's only one candidate who ran on "bathrooms" this past election and he won (Cooper/NC).
These takes are trash.
These takes are trash.
Jmanunknown
Member
What you really meant is that democrats have to prove or sell the idea that liberal plans/programs/budgets will generate more jobs and household wealth for the White Middle Class/White Working Class than the GOP can. Everyone else already firmly votes for liberal plans/programs/budgets.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
Bahaha.
Democrats need to put on some fucking boxing gloves and actually start throwing punches. Attack identity politics and differentiate themselves more from the center.
They do absolute shit to energize their basr and are basically at this point saying nothing.
I want to see the entire party calling for universal health coverage through taxation of the 1% and using much more vocally aggresive means to get their message across.
Democrats need to put on some fucking boxing gloves and actually start throwing punches. Attack identity politics and differentiate themselves more from the center.
They do absolute shit to energize their basr and are basically at this point saying nothing.
I want to see the entire party calling for universal health coverage through taxation of the 1% and using much more vocally aggresive means to get their message across.
BotoxAgent
Member
Mark Penn lol
when his name pop ups, you know the article is trash
when his name pop ups, you know the article is trash
Bullshit, winning is the chief concern going forward.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Mammoth Jones
Member
Yup. People care about their bottom line. Right or wrong voters ask "How will this affect me?"
Veritigo_X
Member
Why would anyone care what Mark Penn has to say?
The last thing democrats should regret is moving the country forward on issues like marriage equality and LGBT rights and health care reform and climate change/clean energy and all the rest. No fucking thanks on the WJ Clinton era policies of mass corporate deregulation and War on Crime, platforms that set us up for the financial crisis and kept the ball rolling on unjust mass incarceration. Never mind that Obama got reelected handily even though the DNC thought coming out of the closet on marriage equality would be political suicide.
The 2016 election wasn't a referendum on policy.
The 2016 election wasn't a referendum on policy.
Not of we pass policies that screw over minority groups and the poor like the article suggests. You might as well vote for Trump again if that's what you want.
entremet
Member
They're kinda flailing their hands right now. They keep bringing up Russia, but Russia is a slow burner, even for 2018. That investigation is gonna take time and I doubt it will win any votes. Russia ain't paying the bills for anyone.
Their biggest success so far has been mobilizing resistance for the ACA repeal. I don't know. I'm not too optimistic about 2018. Dems don't come out at midterms.
I'm optimistic for 2020, though.
This will blow your mind, but a lot of people (including me) doesn't know who he is and will therefore care about what he says. In order to not care about what a person says you actually have to know this person.
If you don't understand who the source is you don't understand whether their take is valuable!
Clockwork5
Member
Would you rather have all three branches of government continue under GOP control?
Unfortunately in a two party system, those are your options.
Sweeney Tom
Banned
Keep on thinking pushing minorities aside will be what wins you elections, Dems
My queer ass promises if they abandon the LGBTQ+ community, I'm done voting.
My queer ass promises if they abandon the LGBTQ+ community, I'm done voting.
DarkConfidant
Member
Basically reads as "Democrats, become even less distinguishable from Republicans".
The author is the problem.
The author is the problem.
QuantumZebra
Member
I have no fucking clue how someone could be paid money for such half-assed analysis.
The 3 reasons Democrats got crushed:
1. Racism/irrational hatred/fear-mongering that led to an overwhelming show of votes from people who typically didn't vote (lower-middle class white males especially).
2. Democrats forgetting that places other than NYC and LA exist + Hillary ignoring the "Heartland" in her campaign.
3. People wanting "change" but having no idea what that change looks like, or the consequences of it could be.... and still voting for it.
Not even democrats were interested in your real alternative.
Knuckle Sandwich
Member
Mark Penn really shouldn't be giving electoral advice.
Besides the democrats already are the fucking center.
Besides the democrats already are the fucking center.
diablos991
Can’t stump the diablos
I don't think the Clintons or their staff should be telling the Democratic Party where to go.
The voting population should decide that.
The voting population should decide that.
Yes, people have pointed this out, but what exactly does that mean? Do people not realize that as a society we keep progressing every day and every year of our existence? I mean, hopefully we do. She should be the most liberal we've ever had especially if you're talking about "identity politics" like articles like this love to bring up.
And then in the general election Hillary and her supporters had to spend so much time talking about "No seriously, she actually is so liberal" that I think it shows her platform and persona really didn't hit the average person as "Holy shit she's practically socialist!"
I just think "liberalism" didn't lose with Hillary. It was a lot of other factors, and the problems that have been going on with Democrats are kind of all over the board especially because of that 2010 election but I really don't see "liberalism" being the big uniting problem.
Yeah, if they throw LGBTQ+ or people of color under the fucking bus because of hot takes like this crap, I'm done with them, too.
The Dems won't win by being Republican lite. If people want what the GOP are offering, then that's what they'll vote for.
The Dems need a charismatic candidate with a good message and strategy. Shifting to the right just gives you what the GOP would have given you.
Widdle Puppy
Banned
The democrat party needs to become a working class grass roots party united by the identity of not being in 1%. The democrat party lacks identity right now because there are so many different groups of people that make it up it is hard to energize everyone. I easily think targeting and attacking the Republican base and framing them as Nazis and racists could energize the democrat party. I'm tired of democrats not using the same dirty tactics as republicans to form an identity for the party.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
And look how well that worked out for Democrats.
Hari Seldon
Member
He is right about the caucus horseshit though. That is extremely un-democratic. They need to dump this, and re-order the primaries so that the big important swing states like Ohio, Florida, and PA go first. It will help them pick the most winnable candidate.
I'm very optimistic for 2018 considering the last time a Republican president was this disliked, Dems won big in 2006.
MastaKilla
Member
This is fucking bullshit.
MetroidPrimeRib
Banned
Oh my fucking god it's not hard. Single payer healthcare. Living wages for all. Done.
These think pieces suck ass.
These think pieces suck ass.
The funny part is we already tried this in 2010 because Dems in midterms thought the ACA was too far-left and that they needed to disassociate themselves from that and Obama to appeal to centrist and moderate Republicans in 2010.
And we got fucking creamed for it.
Blue Dog Democrat voters are a minority in the party at this point and Republicans will never vote for Republican Lite.
And we got fucking creamed for it.
Blue Dog Democrat voters are a minority in the party at this point and Republicans will never vote for Republican Lite.
BrutishMrFish
Member
I really wish the Democratic politicians would stop being as nice as they are to Republicans.
Stop treating Republicans with respect they haven't earned. Stop saying "We're good friends, we just have minor disagreements!" And when Republicans paint the whole party with one brush by saying that Democrats want this country to become socialist, do the same thing by saying Republicans are okay with potentially 20+ million people losing their health care and dying.
The Democrats are far too moderated in their rhetoric while the Republicans attack, and attack, and attack, and it works. What's her name won the debate against Ossoff on nastiness alone. Republicans have learned to warp political correctness into some "respect everyone no matter what" bullshit, and it's stopping the Democrats from being able to defend themselves. I would be a lot more confident in the party's future if there were at least one prominent LBJ-type jerkass to say it like it is.
Stop treating Republicans with respect they haven't earned. Stop saying "We're good friends, we just have minor disagreements!" And when Republicans paint the whole party with one brush by saying that Democrats want this country to become socialist, do the same thing by saying Republicans are okay with potentially 20+ million people losing their health care and dying.
The Democrats are far too moderated in their rhetoric while the Republicans attack, and attack, and attack, and it works. What's her name won the debate against Ossoff on nastiness alone. Republicans have learned to warp political correctness into some "respect everyone no matter what" bullshit, and it's stopping the Democrats from being able to defend themselves. I would be a lot more confident in the party's future if there were at least one prominent LBJ-type jerkass to say it like it is.
Was expecting a centrist anti-socialist complaint, but instead this was just pure Republican-lite. For what it's worth Democrats should be going hard left not just in identity politics but also economics, health care etc. I really do believe that when presented with these options people will choose them.
The Democrats have been centrists for decades and in the last 8 years have lost nearly all of their elected seats as the GOP has gone hard right and galvanized their base of voters by differentiating themselves from Dems in a way they never have been in history before now. The Dems don't need to stay center, they need to follow the GOP playbook and differentiate themselves from the GOP in meaningful ways on a policy front, by actually going left.
Thet shouldn't be talking about saving the ACA, they should be talking about replacing it with single payer. They shouldn't be talking about bringing back manufacturing jobs, they should be talking about providing free college education for all. They shouldn't be giving wall street bailouts, they should be talking about regulation, taxing and breaking up monopolies and using the increased taxes on businesses and wealthy to cut taxes on low income earners and raise the minimum wage. They need to be nationally campaigning for legalizing marijuana and prosecuting doctors and pharmaceutical companies for the opiod epidemic. The Democrats problem is their entire platform is "We aren't the GOP and we aren't racist.". Which is great, but they don't have focused, plausible goals and plans to show how they are different from the GOP and to energize the left non-voters in this country that have no current representation in government.
Thet shouldn't be talking about saving the ACA, they should be talking about replacing it with single payer. They shouldn't be talking about bringing back manufacturing jobs, they should be talking about providing free college education for all. They shouldn't be giving wall street bailouts, they should be talking about regulation, taxing and breaking up monopolies and using the increased taxes on businesses and wealthy to cut taxes on low income earners and raise the minimum wage. They need to be nationally campaigning for legalizing marijuana and prosecuting doctors and pharmaceutical companies for the opiod epidemic. The Democrats problem is their entire platform is "We aren't the GOP and we aren't racist.". Which is great, but they don't have focused, plausible goals and plans to show how they are different from the GOP and to energize the left non-voters in this country that have no current representation in government.
entremet
Member
Senate can flip, but House seems unattainable. Still Trump. Still possibility for another SCOTUS Justice. I'm still voting, but unfortunately, the Democratic agenda is in the hands of the executive branch if we win that back.
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