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Baldur's Gate 3 is causing some devs to panic
- Thread starter jorgejjvr
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MarkMe2525
Member
Yeah, Destin is on point in this video. I typically do not appreciate his so self assured attitude (to each their own), but he really made some good points.
Tedditalk
Member
One of the most based videos I've seen in awhile. And yep, coming from IGN
Destin is great
Great watch
We already had this thread. It was misleading then and is misleading now. An independent studio that do not have Publishers reigning in a developer's vision will always make more creative products then Publishers focused on money, Mass appeal and risk aversion.
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DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Wow, good video by destin here. Gg
kanjobazooie
Mouse Ball Fetishist
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
One of the most based videos I've seen in awhile. And yep, coming from IGN
Destin is great
Great watch
It’s actually a good video game journalism piece. I’m shocked.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
Gold Member
Well since we're making a second thread on this, I'll just post the various dev takes I've seen so far on this IGN video.
CDPR dev who worked on Cyberpunk 2077 chimes in on the matter:
Dev/Animator at Sony Bend Studio also shares his thoughts on the recent IGN video
AAA dev gets shutdown hard by Larian Director of Publishing:
CDPR dev who worked on Cyberpunk 2077 chimes in on the matter:
Dev/Animator at Sony Bend Studio also shares his thoughts on the recent IGN video
AAA dev gets shutdown hard by Larian Director of Publishing:
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Kadve
Member
Also look who is currently going bankrupt...
twinspectre
Member
Which I'm 100% sure you still buy, and most here also still buy these games.
Destin of all people going in this hard tells me something might be up.Well since we're making a second thread on this, I'll just post the various dev takes I've seen so far on this IGN video.
CDPR dev who worked on Cyberpunk 2077 chimes in on the matter:
Dev/Animator at Sony Bend Studio also shares his thoughts on the recent IGN video
AAA dev gets shutdown hard by Larian Director of Publishing:
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I 100% agree with Destin.
Devs need to raise their standards, just like they have been raising prices. And they will if gamers demand so.
On the other hand, gamers will continue to get crap, less ambitious games, and stripped-down features to be patched later, if we continue to bend over and accept what they give us.
Devs need to raise their standards, just like they have been raising prices. And they will if gamers demand so.
On the other hand, gamers will continue to get crap, less ambitious games, and stripped-down features to be patched later, if we continue to bend over and accept what they give us.
Needlecrash
Member
Decent video, real shit.
KaiserBecks
Member
This isn’t misleading at all, making a „more creative“ product isn’t the point here. And it also has nothing to do with being independent since it speaks to pretty much every big player except for Nintendo.
Saber
Gold Member
They are scared of games like this because it makes people realize they need to have standarts, not the samey garbage they want to feed people into to believe it's what they deserve because "gaming dev is hard".
Look at Pokemon for instance. We even have some clowns saying that people should be thankfull they are even launching games. This is the type of consumers they want to buy and defend their games.
Look at Pokemon for instance. We even have some clowns saying that people should be thankfull they are even launching games. This is the type of consumers they want to buy and defend their games.
NoLootBoxDev
Member
As a developer:
Jokes apart, I agree with the video, this should be a wake-up call to other developers to stop doing terrible decisions when developing a game. There must be a better standard than looking at people like
and
Jokes apart, I agree with the video, this should be a wake-up call to other developers to stop doing terrible decisions when developing a game. There must be a better standard than looking at people like
SirTerry-T
Member
It's not the Devs though...ALL Devs dream of releasing a watertight game with zero bugs and all the features they wanted from the design docs. The root of all these issues is with the publishers and the bean counters and the demands of "the market" and finance departments put on the Devs.
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German Hops
GAF's Nicest Lunch Thief
Just wait until Starfield drops.
Developers will really lose their shit.
Developers will really lose their shit.
Generic
Member
Just imagine the meltdown when Larian releases a bugged, unfinished game.
We are gonna go through same shit as when Witcher 3 first came out......this place gonna be very boring for a while.
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Miyazaki’s Slave
Gold Member
They did...BG3 was a complete buggy mess in certain early access release patches. The fact they recognized that internally, used Early Access as a tool to collect feedback, react to that feedback, and release a polished game is something to be respected. It wasn't "magic", it was a shit ton of hard work.
Red5
Member
One of the benefits of being an independent developer, Larian doesn't have to answer to a publisher in regard to hitting milestones to ensure further funding, making internal demos to show the publishers, doesn't have to redesign according to marketing polls or design by committees.
Larian just acquired the license from WOTC and funded the project from DOS, DOS2 and BG3 Early Access revenue, only thing they had to abide by was WOTC IP guidelines.
Letting BG3 on Early Access also ensured a near bug free experience.
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Guilty_AI
Member
Just bear with it
We are gonna go through same shit as when Witcher 3 first came out......this place gonna be very boring for a while.
MLSabre
Member
I say this is a more accurate subject of who's sweating at the prospect of releasing an actual complete, bug-free game.
X-Wing
Member
Those devees should get fucked.
Who the fuck cares abouth twhat they think?
They are happy in their ouwn mediocacry and pulling down anyone who manages to get out of that cycle of low quality thechonological piece of garbage of software.
Get rekt!
celebrate baldur
Baldur is the king and the king has returned
Im sorry if I'm writing weird but I took some stuff and the letters on the screen are moving and I can't really see what I'm typing
I'm gonna lay here on the floor for now talk to you my brothers and my sisters at the dawn of the new day.
Goodbye.
Who the fuck cares abouth twhat they think?
They are happy in their ouwn mediocacry and pulling down anyone who manages to get out of that cycle of low quality thechonological piece of garbage of software.
Get rekt!
celebrate baldur
Baldur is the king and the king has returned
Im sorry if I'm writing weird but I took some stuff and the letters on the screen are moving and I can't really see what I'm typing
I'm gonna lay here on the floor for now talk to you my brothers and my sisters at the dawn of the new day.
Goodbye.
simpatico
Member
Standards are one thing, but what they really need is optimistic creativity. The most creative thing being done today is taking a IP (Star Wars, Marvel etc) and attaching it to an existing game skeleton (Destiny Avengers, AssCreed Star Wars coming soon etc). Then the equally emotionally bankrupt gaming journalists praise it as some type of artistic revelation, creating a downward spiraling feedback loop. The modern gaming dev-to-journo-to-dev human centipede must be broken. Indies have been picking up a lot of slack, but I'd sure love to see those big budget being used for something great.
brian0057
Banned
Remember when IGN gave that piece of shit Mass Effect 3 a 9.5/10?
Remember how Jessica Chobot, a literal IGN employee at the time, was a character in the game?
Remember how IGN's website was wallpapered with Mass Effect 3 ads and banners during the entire launch window of the game?
Trust game journos at your own peril.
EDMIX
Member
I agree.
Reading most of what was stated by those other developers, I never got anything about "panic", it sounds so forced, fake, exaggerated and sensationalist to get clicks.
tomato shrub
Member
eh, kind of a shallow video that misses an important point. Yeah, obviously games should be bugfree and without ripoff MTX. But you know what else these positive examples like BG3, Zelda and Elden Ring have in common? They put actual thought in making engaging new gaming experiences that require player agency and talented developers.
Which is why I found it even more pathetic when last year some developers were trashing Elden Ring for not spoon-feeding questlines. Some of these developers are probably completely unable to develop engaging levels and problems to solve. So they make uninspired maps/rollercoaster levels where you work through the same old checklists of icons, with a little bit of button-mash combat inbetween for short dopamine boosts. And when real game design isn't the priority anymore, it becomes shit like MTX implementation and writing shit stories for the Kotaku-crowd.
Which is why I found it even more pathetic when last year some developers were trashing Elden Ring for not spoon-feeding questlines. Some of these developers are probably completely unable to develop engaging levels and problems to solve. So they make uninspired maps/rollercoaster levels where you work through the same old checklists of icons, with a little bit of button-mash combat inbetween for short dopamine boosts. And when real game design isn't the priority anymore, it becomes shit like MTX implementation and writing shit stories for the Kotaku-crowd.
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Sensational clickbait is sensational.
Scotty W
Gold Member
Blaming the developers is like blaming the janitor and kitchen staff for not liking McDonald’s.
DemonGamerTTT
Member
White knight retards always coming to defend the poor developers... "It's always the publisher fault" they say....
This level of retardation is the cancer that is eating gamming from inside, players always apologizing for the products they are fucking paying for...
Those people don't act as customers they act as some low IQ zealots... As I always say... anomalies like FIFA, NBA, GATCHA, BOXES and GAMBLE are all result of the bad decisions those braindead zealots make.
GAMES ARE PRODUCTS and should be always scrutinized to the bones, accepting low standards and acting against your own benefit is fucking dumb.
This level of retardation is the cancer that is eating gamming from inside, players always apologizing for the products they are fucking paying for...
Those people don't act as customers they act as some low IQ zealots... As I always say... anomalies like FIFA, NBA, GATCHA, BOXES and GAMBLE are all result of the bad decisions those braindead zealots make.
GAMES ARE PRODUCTS and should be always scrutinized to the bones, accepting low standards and acting against your own benefit is fucking dumb.
bitbydeath
Member
Nah, developers are also at fault.
We had RDR2 and Days Gone paving the way for a new open world experience over five years ago. None have tried to beat, let alone meet that point since then, even Sony released a bog standard open world game with Horizon 2.
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Grildon Tundy
Gold Member
Conspiracy theories are like catnip to me. What've you got for me? Industry crash incoming?
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
In what other industry is this acceptable? Does Boeing deliver new planes half-baked, only to fix them 3 months post-deliery? Lets see what happens with Starfield, because BG3 and TOTK have set the standard this year.
bender
What time is it?
Killer8
Member
There is nothing wrong with Baldur's Gate 3 setting a new benchmark. You find numerous examples of games that raise the bar higher and which take years to surpass again. If there wasn't, gaming wouldn't move forward at all. It's good for competition and the medium as a whole if other developers have a high standard to shoot for.
That said, I can see what some of the developers are saying about not expecting the next game in the genre to be even bigger. Even Larian are saying their next game will be smaller. Not only is it not sustainable, the mentality of "next game needs to be biggerer and betterer" has already harmed the industry greatly in my opinion. We've seen this with so many games feeling the need to be 50 hour long open world slogs, which really didn't need to be but ended up so because 'gamer expectations'.
It's very difficult to parse that viewpoint though from the sour grapes of a lot of these other developers. See: that time numerous devs dogpiled Elden Ring on Twitter for its gameplay decisions. In their whinings, you get a sense that it's more a case of tall poppy syndrome for some of the bitter ones, rather than a wanting to deflect potentially unfair comparisons to their own game (which could be due to differences in time, budget, manpower, publisher etc).
Something else which really poisons the discussion is the fact that so many games release just plain broken. It's an industry embarrassment which needs addressed. An open world game dev on a 3 year dev cycle with a $100 million budget saying "please don't compare us to a Rockstar game", which had 8 years in the oven and half a billion dollars backing it up, might sound sensible enough - but if the same dev then goes on to release a complete mess of a game, it just sounds like they're making excuses for their own incompetence. At least reach the bare minimum functionality so that even if it's not quite a Baldur's Gate 3 or a Rockstar level of scope, it can still be considered a good and importantly working game.
That said, I can see what some of the developers are saying about not expecting the next game in the genre to be even bigger. Even Larian are saying their next game will be smaller. Not only is it not sustainable, the mentality of "next game needs to be biggerer and betterer" has already harmed the industry greatly in my opinion. We've seen this with so many games feeling the need to be 50 hour long open world slogs, which really didn't need to be but ended up so because 'gamer expectations'.
It's very difficult to parse that viewpoint though from the sour grapes of a lot of these other developers. See: that time numerous devs dogpiled Elden Ring on Twitter for its gameplay decisions. In their whinings, you get a sense that it's more a case of tall poppy syndrome for some of the bitter ones, rather than a wanting to deflect potentially unfair comparisons to their own game (which could be due to differences in time, budget, manpower, publisher etc).
Something else which really poisons the discussion is the fact that so many games release just plain broken. It's an industry embarrassment which needs addressed. An open world game dev on a 3 year dev cycle with a $100 million budget saying "please don't compare us to a Rockstar game", which had 8 years in the oven and half a billion dollars backing it up, might sound sensible enough - but if the same dev then goes on to release a complete mess of a game, it just sounds like they're making excuses for their own incompetence. At least reach the bare minimum functionality so that even if it's not quite a Baldur's Gate 3 or a Rockstar level of scope, it can still be considered a good and importantly working game.
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