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Baten Kaitos II and Xenosaga III, what's better ?

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
no, Im not going to read a review that has like 10 different categories. it's silly and stupid Im going to read it and disect that review just because I have nothing else to do.

The game opens with great promise story wise but after the first two hours it fizzles out so quickly. None of the characters are likeable on any of the three sides. Alicia's team is made up of double-crossing malcontents. The Aesir are made to look like pompous bastards, and the Kingdom of Dipan has no redeeming qualities at all. There are no heroes or brave true warriors in this game. Just a lot of dickery on all sides. This of course is the exact opposite of the original game which is about taking flawed beings and turning them into heroes of legend. Heroes that save not only the world, but reality itself.
what kind of complaint is that? I mean gimme a ****ing break. like I said the story starts slow yeah but it gets awesome and after it gets it just keep delivering.

No character is ever really defined in terms of background or personality and the game is even more shallow when it comes to the Einherjar. Einherjar are the chosen warriors of the Aesir from the human world, who are called into service to fight alongside the Gods when Ragnarok comes.
they are not the focus of this game, there are more like tools you use to make your party stronger. way to miss the point of the game there is not ragnarok in this game therefore there is no need for an army of warriors.

Your Einherjar are worthless in terms of story and even more so, are only in the game for the times when your main characters leave for a bit so Alicia doesn't get killed in certain key areas of the game.
they are not the FOCUS of the game!

What little substance the game has story wise is pretty awful thanks to two big problems. The first is lousy writing and localization. Even the most ardent Square fanboys I've talked to about this game admits that the script at times is laughable and often poor. And that's being nice. The second is that the game smashes you over the head with everything. There is no subtle foreshadowing or slight hints. There is out and out "THIS IS IMPORTANT. THIS IS A BIG REVEAL LATE ON. THIS MAIN CHARACTER IS ACTUALLY ****************!" There's no surprises or shocks and then you're left underwhelmed when the big reveals over certain characters like Rufus occur.
this is totally subjective as I think square enix did a fine job with the localizations and I liked the voices used in the game. oh and the script rox.

The music of VP is sadly forgettable. It didn't stick with me or leaving me impressed. It wasn't bad. It just wasn't gripping to my auditory senses. It was RPG background music. Nothing more, nothing less. I couldn't even hum any of it for you and I beat the entire game and the Seraphic Gate once.
music rox and compliments the game's atmosphere extremely well, that's the purpose of music in videogames.

The voice acting is good, but not great. It's a step down from the original, especially since the original had the wonderful "Voice Collection" extra.
aside from some cool voices here and there the original cant compare to VP2 in the VA department. seems like he is just looking for ways to prove how this game is awful by knocking it for stupid shit like this.

Alicia is well done, but most characters just don't have any range of vocal emotion or personality. It's the same intonation for almost the entire game. Again, this isn’t bad.
what? Lezard's great magic chant disagrees with this dude.

it's actually good for RPG voice acting, but the original game used a platoon of the best voice actors in the business like Veronica Taylor, Eric Stuart, Rachael Lillis, and Nurse f'n Joy! Anything's going to pale compared to the original's cast. "Freya, I choose you!"
:lol let's carry on.

Battles take place on a 3-D map and are turned based similar to how Dungeon crawl games go. You take a step, so do your opponents, and so on. However, you can move your entire team as a party, in groups, or individuals. Although this sounds like it will give you a tactical advantage, it actually doesn't because you're effectively cutting your movement down from 75% of your max all the way down to 25%. You see if you only move 1-3 characters in an attempt to say, get behind your opponent for a double sided attack, the enemy still gets its full movement event though you're only using a fraction of yours. Watch what happens when you try to get a character on each side of a boss. Just watch the horror. In almost all cases, you can plow through the computer with "direct assaults" and the tactical aspect of the game/being able to split up your party is often unnecessary and actually detrimental to your team.
this just screams "I suck at splitting my team" the whole point of splitting your team is to use one team as bait for the enemy and the other to attack from behind worked very well in my boss fights specially against the magma boss. and also it works when you dont the whole party to take damage, instead use one party member to withhold the enemy attack so that the whole party doesnt get affected. I dont know what this dude was trying to do when he is trying to split team, if the boss didnt move while you use a team to move around would have make the game a freaking a joke in terms of difficulty.

You can send up Einherjar here to, but instead of getting XP or increased story for the characters, you get some stat bonuses and well, that's it. You might run into them in different chapters in the game as they're human again now (WTF?) and they'll give you items. Unlike the original, training these guys is not a major part of the game and nothing bad happens if you don't send anyone up. EVER.
wtf was he expecting? there is no ragnarok and Silmeria has rebelled against Odin she isnt going to send the einherjar to valhalla like Lenneth did, one sign of rebellion is allowing the einherjar to live once again instead of letting Odin use them as tool which is exactly what Silmeria does in the game. again way to miss the ****ing point of the game.

Finally, skills are completely different in VP2 as well. In the original, you earned experience and could spend it how you wanted. Here, you gain skills by equipping certain item combinations and using those combinations repeatedly. You also have a limited amount of skill points to use. I find that skills in VP2 are not as rewarding as in the original (Auto item use and heal anyone), but I must admit I do loves me the maxed out Force Field skill.
rune system>>>>using skill points in random stats just for the sake of using points.

VP1 has too many skills that simply make the game a lot easier (guts+auto item anyone?) in this game there a catch, powerful skill use more capacity points so you can go around and equipping the most powerful skills on every character, I think they balance it a little and it worked pretty well.

Unlike the original game, which features one of the hardest bosses in all of gaming in Bloodbane,
:lol

VP2 is pretty tame in terms of computer AI and difficulty. It's quite easy to ensure you won't get hit at ALL in most fights, with boss battles being the exception. The way the AP gauge is set up in the game allows for a smart play to easily manipulate it to their advantage constantly. The game also telegraphs the CPU's attacks range and so again, the game is FAR easier than the original VP. The Seraphic Gate is an exception to this, and it gets harder each time you play through it, although said difficulty is really just how much damage they give and how much you take rather than any AI raising.
game isnt that hard I agree but using the battle system to you are advantage is not a flaw, like he is implying there.

A really big difference between the two games is the fact than in VP2 you can munchkin. If you're not familiar with the term, you just go to dungeon after dungeon and spend dozens of hours leveling your characters up into beefcakes. In fact, the game actually encourages you to do this and occasionally gives you bonuses for not advancing the plot and just leveling up your characters far above what is needed.
how is that bad? if you want to make the game a total cakewalk that is your choice, for example apparently if meet certain requirements you get some uber weapons I didnt bother with that shit because I wanted challenge still the option is there for people that likes that kind of stuff.

This pisses me off to no end, as no game should reward that, especially a VP game, of which the original went out of its way to make sure you couldn't do that. Again, this manages to make an already easy game even easier. This is probably my second biggest disappointment with VP after the plot. I will say the game will screw those munchkins over at the very very end of the game. Here's a hint: Don't bother leveling up Alicia past 55. Hee hee hee.
reward what? in VP there was very little chance you ran out of period in chapters unless you screwed up like hell, those remaining periods could have been used to leveling if you want, even so the game is total cakewalk even on hard so grinding was not needed on VP1. I dont get why he praises VP1 on difficulty so much the game is easy.

VP2: Silmeria is just too easy, and there wasn't a single time in the game I lost more than one of my four characters in any battle. That includes the Seraphic gate. And VP2 makes it a lot harder to heal your characters than the original. That should tell you something. You'll have more trouble with various jumping puzzles than you will with monster slaying. Thankfully the battle engine gives you some level of enjoyment while you're cakewalking through the game.
try to fight bosses at low levels and come back to me plz.

and for last this gem

Valkyrie Profile is one of the biggest cult titles ever. It's also now got Square's logo on the box, which will only help to inflate sales. Compared to Square's usual FF games, VP has about the same amount, and sometimes more plot, so the Square fanatics will think it's a masterpiece.
"hey look at me Im an elistist I cant enjoy this game because it has the square logo on the box har har har"
 

Tellaerin

Member
Dragona Akehi said:
Dog shit is better than anything Xenocrap.

And how much of that 'Xenocrap' did you actually play through before coming to that conclusion, Dragona? Inquiring minds want to know.

yudaan said:
It's pretty obvious that, unless you're one of those 'play games for story' nutjobs, BK2 all the way. Great execution of an interesting take of the typical turn based rpg battle with even better fighting choreography (at least for your three characters).

And on the other hand, we have the 4th attempt at a 'deep and sophisticated plot and its holes' with yet another generic prodding turn based battle system with fanservice of the worst kind. Really, if you're one of those nutjobs, you can save a lot of time by reading this, this, and this.

btw, Street Fighter Alpha 3 plot > Xeno series.

You know, I was actually going to bother with a rebuttal to this until I realized it was a joke post. (I think the 'SFA3 plot > Xeno series' remark kind of gave it away.) And if you meant all that to be taken seriously, well... that just makes the joke all the more amusing. :lol
 

Kiriku

SWEDISH PERFECTION
How about if you people stating your opinion on which game is better actually tell us if you have played through (or at least played a substantial part of) both games? Otherwise your "comparisons" are pretty pointless, you know.
And hey, how about actually giving us reasons why one game is better than the other, or at least tell us why a game (you have played) is good or bad at ALL. :p
 

Monk

Banned
How about neither?

BK2, just has rediculous story and unbalnced battle system.
XS3: has 30 second unskippable cutscenes, i am staying away from it out of principle.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Monk said:
XS3: has 30 second unskippable cutscenes, i am staying away from it out of principle.

WTF. You can skip every cutscene and every text scene. You can't even do that in GBA/SNES/NES rpgs! XS ep3 lets you skip ALL THE STORY and just play the dungeons. What other rpg can claim that?
 
Monk said:
How about neither?

BK2, just has rediculous story and unbalnced battle system.
XS3: has 30 second unskippable cutscenes, i am staying away from it out of principle.
you sir, have the worst opinion in the world. :)
 

Monk

Banned
Bebpo said:
WTF. You can skip every cutscene and every text scene. You can't even do that in GBA/SNES/NES rpgs! XS ep3 lets you skip ALL THE STORY and just play the dungeons. What other rpg can claim that?

Serious? Then XS3 + 1.
 
My burning question is who in their right ****ing minds would want to skip the story scenes? It's one of the best stories ever in any videogame. Isn't part of the appeal in RPG's mostly the story? I sure as hell don't play RPG's for the gameplay, I mean I don't hate the gameplay or anything but if the story isn't doing anything for me, there's a good chance I'll stop playing it. You skip the cutscenes in Xenosaga III, you're skipping some of the most awesome shit, videogame story wise, in a long time.
 
Beezy said:
I guess you don't play the Grandia or Tales games.

Like I said, I think the gameplay is okay in some of them. Those two, certainly. But I play them primarily for presentation, story, character, music, etc. I mean the gameplay can't be so bad that I don't want to play it, but gameplay in RPG's certainly take a backseat to other aspects.
 

Tabris

Member
I have to ask everyone that voted BK2, have you actually played Xenosaga Episode III?

I don't mean played Xenosaga, I meant the specific game, not the previous entries in the series. If you haven't, then you have no place to recommend one over the other.

I haven't beaten BK2 yet but I've played it, and I didn't even mention the quality of it since I would be such a bad judge on it since I haven't beaten it.

So Dragona, Error2k4 and DrinkyCrow, have you actually played Xenosaga Episode III?
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Xenosaga III has a great battle system and a great story, but BKO has great dungeons, really wonderful characters, and there's so much more to do in BKO while X3 is pretty linear.

And BKO is harder.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Tabris said:
I have to ask everyone that voted BK2, have you actually played Xenosaga Episode III?

I don't mean played Xenosaga, I meant the specific game, not the previous entries in the series. If you haven't, then you have no place to recommend one over the other.

I haven't beaten BK2 yet but I've played it, and I didn't even mention the quality of it since I would be such a bad judge on it since I haven't beaten it.

So Dragona, Error2k4 and DrinkyCrow, have you actually played Xenosaga Episode III?
Im going to quote a post from the RPG of the year 06 thread that perfectly sums my thoughts on the whole Xenosaga franchise.

yudaan said:
Because the last thing a gamer needs is a generic turn based battle system focused more on 'deep plots and it's holes' and the typical 'silver haired badass'.

And after a hohum first game (Xenogears), way below average retread (Xenosaga Ep1) and an utterly unentertaining sequal in any sense of the word to said retread (you can't even insult the game, it does it for you, ie Xenosaga Ep2), you're better off wasting your time elsewhere, to say the least. Fool me three times ...

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4462419&postcount=65

Wont Be Fooled Again!
 

P90

Member
ivysaur12 said:
X3 is a great finish to a series that started off great and had a TERRIBLE middle.

Baten Kaitos origins is just a completely awesome sequel to an awesome game.

I agree with your XS assessment.

BK 1 was only "good" to me. I'll be picking up BK:O anway.
 

SantaC

Gold Member
Tabris said:
I have to ask everyone that voted BK2, have you actually played Xenosaga Episode III?

I don't mean played Xenosaga, I meant the specific game, not the previous entries in the series. If you haven't, then you have no place to recommend one over the other.

I haven't beaten BK2 yet but I've played it, and I didn't even mention the quality of it since I would be such a bad judge on it since I haven't beaten it.

So Dragona, Error2k4 and DrinkyCrow, have you actually played Xenosaga Episode III?

and have those of playex xenosaga ep 3 really played BKII? I mean the game is not very hyped around here with a pathetic official thread. Goes both ways you know. And I haven't seen you in that thread at all. BKII is really an underrated RPG. I mean there are like 2 reviews out on the internet on this.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Tellaerin said:
In other words, 'No, Tabris, I haven't played the game myself, and I really don't know what I'm talking about.' Thank you.
why would I play a third game in a series where it's prequels suck ass?
 

Tellaerin

Member
SantaC said:
and have those of playex xenosaga ep 3 really played BKII? I mean the game is not very hyped around here with a pathetic official thread. Goes both ways you know. And I haven't seen you in that thread at all.

So? Would you rather he go into the BK II thread and bash the game/series without ever having played it (assuming he hasn't) like many of the Xeno detractors are doing here?
 
Error2k4 said:
why would I play a third game in a series where it's prequels suck ass?

Because it's a very good game. One of the best RPG's I've played in years. Could I say that about the other two episodes? Not so much, though I liked the first episode enough. But Episode III stomps the shit out of them.
 

Tellaerin

Member
Error2k4 said:
why would I play a third game in a series where it's prequels suck ass?

So instead, you'll just assume it sucks based on secondhand accounts and pass that off as if it's personal experience. Hey, you want to do that, that's your business, but don't be surprised when people call you on it (like they're doing now).
 

SantaC

Gold Member
Tellaerin said:
So instead, you'll just assume it sucks based on secondhand accounts and pass that off as if it's personal experience. Hey, you want to do that, that's your business, but don't be surprised when people call you on it (like they're doing now).

I got news, people does the same thing with BKII. Tabris played BKII? Well I thought he sold his gamecube not long ago. (there was a thread about it)
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Tellaerin said:
So instead, you'll just assume it sucks based on secondhand accounts and pass that off as if it's personal experience. Hey, you want to do that, that's your business, but don't be surprised when people call you on it (like they're doing now).
what second hands? I played both games ME you see, I bought them new and on release day in fact. this is my opinion I just quoted him because he has the same opinion as me and I didnt want to write that when his post sums up my feelings towards the Xeno franchise. ep1 and ep2 suck, no way Im going to get ep3 it's same thing except ep3 wraps up the story.

it's like you people are acting like it's a completely new game different from its prequels when it's not.
 
It's improved in just about every way. Better battle system, slightly better visuals, better music, better story, faster loading times... yeah, it's nothing like the Episode I or II experience, IMO.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
brandonh83 said:
It's improved in just about every way. Better battle system, slightly better visuals, better music, better story, faster loading times... yeah, it's nothing like the Episode I or II experience, IMO.

But it is like the Episode I experience. If you didn't like Ep 1, you won't like Ep 3. I mean, I loved Ep 1, but if you don't, there's NO WAY you'll like the Xeno universe.
 
ivysaur12 said:
But it is like the Episode I experience. If you didn't like Ep 1, you won't like Ep 3. I mean, I loved Ep 1, but if you don't, there's NO WAY you'll like the Xeno universe.

I give up. I just think the third episode is vastly superior to the others.
 

Tellaerin

Member
SantaC said:
I got news, people does the same thing with BKII. Tabris played BKII? Well I thought he sold his gamecube not long ago. (there was a thread about it)

Is he slamming BK II in this thread? No, he's not. He never pretended to play the game. He just said he really liked XS ep3. If someone came into the thread and said, 'I never played XS ep3, but BK II is all kinds of awesome,' that would be fine, too.

The problem is that people who have never actually played XS ep3 are trashing the game without having played it, because that's what the cool GAF kids do. WTF does any of that have to do with BK II? Absolutely nothing. So please tell me what your point's supposed to be, because right now it doesn't look like you have one.

Error2k4 said:
what second hands? I played both games ME you see, I bought them new and on release day in fact. this is my opinion and ep1 and ep2 suck, no way Im going to get ep3 it's same thing except ep3 wraps up the story.

it's like you people are acting like it's a completely new game different from its prequels when it's not.

Um, actually, it is 'a completely new game', one that's different from its predecessors. That's the entire point.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
ivysaur12 said:
But it is like the Episode I experience. If you didn't like Ep 1, you won't like Ep 3. I mean, I loved Ep 1, but if you don't, there's NO WAY you'll like the Xeno universe.
this man gets it.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Tellaerin said:
So I guess if I didn't like Persona, I shouldn't ever bother playing an SMT game.
that's your perogative, if you dont like Persona chances are you wouldnt like SMT anyway since Persona is the 'mainstream' series of SMT.

and your logic is flawed anyway because unlike Persona and SMT, Xenosaga is a series with direct sequels, while Persona is a spinoff from SMT totally different.
 

Tellaerin

Member
Error2k4 said:
that's your perogative, if you dont like Persona chances are you wouldnt like SMT anyway since Persona is the 'mainstream' series of SMT.

and your logic is flawed anyway because unlike Persona and SMT, Xenosaga is a series with direct sequels, while Persona is a spinoff from SMT totally different.

But with many of the same themes. It's sort of like people who've developed an opinion of Xenosaga and the 'Xeno universe' through their experience with Xenogears, without actually having played any of the later games themselves.

EDIT: My point is that you really can't judge accurately that way. Sometimes there are elements in a particular game that weren't present in the others, and those will click with a player (or turn them off) despite the other similarities. (Look at the split in opinions over FF X-2. Despite it being set in the same world, some FF X fans liked it, while others hated it.)
 

Monk

Banned
Tellaerin said:
Is he slamming BK II in this thread? No, he's not. He never pretended to play the game. He just said he really liked XS ep3. If someone came into the thread and said, 'I never played XS ep3, but BK II is all kinds of awesome,' that would be fine, too.

The problem is that people who have never actually played XS ep3 are trashing the game without having played it, because that's what the cool GAF kids do. WTF does any of that have to do with BK II? Absolutely nothing. So please tell me what your point's supposed to be, because right now it doesn't look like you have one.



Um, actually, it is 'a completely new game', one that's different from its predecessors. That's the entire point.

Then why put the Xenosaga name on it? Why on earth is anyone that didnt like the previous ones going to buy or even try it?

I think it is completely unreasonable to expect someone to play a game from a series that they despise. That said i havent actually played either just read up a little on each of them. For RPG's if you want gameplay, then the pc is where is that, nothing on even the ps3 shown thuse far come even close.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Tellaerin said:
So I guess if I didn't like Persona, I shouldn't ever bother playing an SMT game.

No, that's not true at all. SMT is a general theme, with lose threads that tie everything together. Xenosaga is a SET universe. It was SET from Day 1 (with obvious changes, of course, but still). The same characters are in 1 - 3. Are the same characters in all Persona and SMT games. Nu-oh. Are they set in the same worlds? Not really. Are the stories completely different? Yeah-huh. Are the themes different? Yes-um. Sure, there are some threads that tie them together, but it's completely different than Xenosaga's universe. Xenosaga has the SAME characters, the SAME universe, the SAME common themes, and the SAME overarching plot. Sure, the gameplay differs, but it's sitll the same universe.

I love the Xenosaga universe. I completely love it. But if I didn't like the Xenosaga universe when I first played it, why would I play the exact same universe with the same characters, themes, universes, overarching plot, ect?
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
ivysaur12 said:
No, that's not true at all. SMT is a general theme, with lose threads that tie everything together. Xenosaga is a SET universe. It was SET from Day 1 (with obvious changes, of course, but still). The same characters are in 1 - 3. Are the same characters in all Persona and SMT games. Nu-oh. Are they set in the same worlds? Not really. Are the stories completely different? Yeah-huh. Are the themes different? Yes-um. Sure, there are some threads that tie them together, but it's completely different than Xenosaga's universe. Xenosaga has the SAME characters, the SAME universe, the SAME common themes, and the SAME overarching plot. Sure, the gameplay differs, but it's sitll the same universe.

I love the Xenosaga universe. I completely love it. But if I didn't like the Xenosaga universe when I first played it, why would I play the exact same universe with the same characters, themes, universes, overarching plot, ect?
Im gonna buy you a drink you are the only sane xenosaga fan around here it seems.
 

Tellaerin

Member
ivysaur12 said:
No, that's not true at all. SMT is a general theme, with lose threads that tie everything together. Xenosaga is a SET universe. It was SET from Day 1 (with obvious changes, of course, but still). The same characters are in 1 - 3. Are the same characters in all Persona and SMT games. Nu-oh. Are they set in the same worlds? Not really. Are the stories completely different? Yeah-huh. Are the themes different? Yes-um. Sure, there are some threads that tie them together, but it's completely different than Xenosaga's universe. Xenosaga has the SAME characters, the SAME universe, the SAME common themes, and the SAME overarching plot. Sure, the gameplay differs, but it's sitll the same universe.

I love the Xenosaga universe. I completely love it. But if I didn't like the Xenosaga universe when I first played it, why would I play the exact same universe with the same characters, themes, universes, overarching plot, ect?

Heh, I wouldn't advise anyone to go into a game that they're predisposed to dislike - that's pretty much a given. On the other hand, if the first XS game didn't leave a person actively turned off, I could recommend ep. 3 to them without hesitation. The dialogue and voice acting are both vastly improved, and the characters themselves are better written - yes, they're the same people, but they're better-developed (and more personable) this time around as a result of those changes. Likewise, while many of the overarching themes from the earlier games are out in force, the pacing and presentation make them more palatable to people who might not have liked the heavy-handedness of the exposition in the first two. So for somebody who feels ep. 1 was 'eh, OK, I guess,' ep. 3 might well be a worthwhile purchase. *shrug*

Error2k4 said:
Im gonna buy you a drink you are the only sane xenosaga fan around here it seems.

Yep, I guess I'm 'insane' because I'm sick of hearing people who haven't played the goddamn game bashing it every chance they get. :p
 

Bebpo

Banned
ivysaur12 said:
But it is like the Episode I experience. If you didn't like Ep 1, you won't like Ep 3. I mean, I loved Ep 1, but if you don't, there's NO WAY you'll like the Xeno universe.

Not really. Ep1 is not like Ep3 at all.

Ep1 is a game that works for a niche group of fans. It has looooong cutscenes, slooooow battles, bad loading, and no music in towns/dungeons.

Ep3 is a fast paced game aimed at a mainstream audiencce with extremely fast battles, shorter and more frequent cutscenes, no loading, and great music throughout.

Ep1 is really only likeable if you are into the Xeno~ stuff. Ep2 isn't likeable to anyone besides the one guy in this thread who liked it. Ep3 is likable to anyone who likes good rpgs in general.


----
And just to piss Error off cause he's being a himuro these days: Valkyrie Profile was the most overated rpg of all of last gen. It was a good 8/10 game but it got hyped beyond belief and somehow it's the holy grail of 10/10 gameplay despite a terribly paced story full of holes, a fairly mash-friendly simple battle system, cheapass bosses that require the guts system abuse that breaks the game, and an ost that has like 5 good songs yet everyone thinks it's Sakuraba's finest (hint: It's not. See BK1 / VP2 / TotA). VP2 no doubt will become this generations most overrated rpg as again it's an 8/10 game with a terrible story filled with awful characters for 75% of it, extremely linear, boring and terribly designed dungeons, and a mash-friendly battle system that tricks everyone into thinking fun + fast = deep & strategical. Both are good games, but in both generations there are about 10-20 better rpgs that stand above them. Hell, BK2 is better than VP2.
 

Alex

Member
It's good to see your analysis and taste remains as horribly questionable as ever, Beb!
 

Bebpo

Banned
Alex said:
It's good to see your analysis and taste remains as horribly questionable as ever, Beb!

Always glad to be of service

ActorBowing.jpg
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
Bebpo said:
And just to piss Error off cause he's being a himuro these days: Valkyrie Profile was the most overated rpg of all of last gen. It was a good 8/10 game but it got hyped beyond belief and somehow it's the holy grail of 10/10 gameplay despite a terribly paced story full of holes, a fairly mash-friendly simple battle system, cheapass bosses that require the guts system abuse that breaks the game, and an ost that has like 5 good songs yet everyone thinks it's Sakuraba's finest (hint: It's not. See BK1 / VP2 / TotA). VP2 no doubt will become this generations most overrated rpg as again it's an 8/10 game with a terrible story filled with awful characters for 75% of it, extremely linear, boring and terribly designed dungeons, and a mash-friendly battle system that tricks everyone into thinking fun + fast = deep & strategical. Both are good games, but in both generations there are about 10-20 better rpgs that stand above them. Hell, BK2 is better than VP2.
that doesnt piss me off you are entitled to your opinion ;)

but it's nice you got that out of your system because it was pretty obvious.

oh and you dont have to use guts at all in VP1, not even hard.
 

Bebpo

Banned
Error2k4 said:
oh and you dont have to use guts at all in VP1, not even hard.

Yeah, go and beat Bloodbane without guts or excessive grinding for hours and come back here.
 

Error

Jealous of the Glory that is Johnny Depp
I replayed the game on hard not long ago (like 2 months ago) and I didnt use guts at all in that fight I did use auto-item tho and I didnt grind like you say, you dont have to grind in VP1 if you fight every enemy on every dungeon and do every dungeon. game is beatable without grinding and without using guts.

now Iseria Queen yeah pretty much impossible without guts.
 

ivysaur12

Banned
Bebpo said:
Not really. Ep1 is not like Ep3 at all.

Ep1 is a game that works for a niche group of fans. It has looooong cutscenes, slooooow battles, bad loading, and no music in towns/dungeons.

Ep3 is a fast paced game aimed at a mainstream audiencce with extremely fast battles, shorter and more frequent cutscenes, no loading, and great music throughout.

Ep1 is really only likeable if you are into the Xeno~ stuff. Ep2 isn't likeable to anyone besides the one guy in this thread who liked it. Ep3 is likable to anyone who likes good rpgs in general.

But that's all fine and good, but if you didn't like the characters or story from the first game, you're not going ot like them in the 3rd. I LOVE Xenosaga III, but if I didn't like the story or the characters from the first game, why would I like the same characters, main storyline, themes, ect. in the 3rd game? Sure, it may play better, but gameplay has never been the main draw of the Xenosaga for people. You may love it, and I may love it, but it doesn't matter to people if they don't like Xenosaga's storyline. Cause really, you can't enjoy Xenosaga if you don't like the story.
 

Tellaerin

Member
ivysaur12 said:
But that's all fine and good, but if you didn't like the characters or story from the first game, you're not going ot like them in the 3rd. I LOVE Xenosaga III, but if I didn't like the story or the characters from the first game, why would I like the same characters, main storyline, themes, ect. in the 3rd game? Sure, it may play better, but gameplay has never been the main draw of the Xenosaga for people. You may love it, and I may love it, but it doesn't matter to people if they don't like Xenosaga's storyline. Cause really, you can't enjoy Xenosaga if you don't like the story.

Strange how people can enjoy a game and dislike its sequel because of differences in how the characters are presented (see: FF X and X-2), yet somehow, the reverse is supposed to be impossible. And if you're going to tell me that you can't see any difference between XS ep. 1 and ep. 3 in terms of story or characterization, then I'll know not to pay any mind to anything else you have to say on the topic. Themes, themes, themes... there's more to a game than just its themes - how those thematic elements are presented and developed is a big part of its appeal (or lack thereof). I think that ep. 3 fares far better than its predecessors in those areas.

More importantly, though, why should we even be debating this? The thread starter gave no indication that he disliked XS ep. 1 or 2 - he merely wanted to know which he ought to pick up, ep. 3 or BK II. Presumably he played the earlier games in both series, or he wouldn't be eyeing the sequels in the first place.
 
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