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[The Smoking Bun]

Ok so let me give a fair warning that the discussion topic is fairly horrific and not for the faint of heart. This is something I have been thinking off ever since Batman: Arkham Origins was announced with it's younger and meaner take on Batman. I can't say how successful WB Montreal has been in this aspect but I wonder one thing.

He does NOT and cannot kill, so why doesn't Batman cripple, severely injure or perhaps even torture his foes as a punishment? Reserve it for the really dangerous psycho's like Joker. Has he ever done such a thing in the comics? The closest I can imagine is Batman throwing Maroni from a balcony breaking his leg in TDK.

Doesn't have to be a regular thing, exceptional case. Say the Penguin blows up a bus full of children and Batman in his rage blinds him. Would that make the Penguin less dangerous? Say he pulls and eye for an eye on Joker and paralyses him from the neck down. Helpless but Alive. Doesn't break the one rule but makes them almost beg for death. Joker has his minions but would they really care to work for a helpless cripple?

Has there been any character in fiction who does this? Doesn't kill but mutilates or severely injures his enemies practically rendering them inert? How would the villains react? Joker would probably become more insane and Penguin would be ballistic, starting a crime war for the head of the dark knight. What about lesser criminals? Forget going to prison, you'd lose a finger or your entire arm if you ever came face to face with the Bat.

How would Gotham react? How is deliberately mutilating them worse than beating them to a pulp and leaving them groaning in pain from a broken arm as we do in the Arkham series.

Thoughts?

 

[loganclaws]

Doesn't he already do that? He's always breaking bones.

 

[xxracerxx]

He breaks people's bones all the time so they will not walk the same.

 

[- J - D -]

It's funny, he does this a lot in comics and whatnot, but mostly to expendable chump bad guys and rarely to big bads, because the perpetual, cyclical nature of the comics industry probably dictates that villains can't be crippled for life. I wonder if they believe miraculous recovery from vegetable state is more outlandish than having someone come back from death for a third time.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Doesn't he already do that? He's always breaking bones.

Yes but this would be an extreme version of that.

[Frank Miller] Batman: What's that Riddler? You are going to build a crazy puzzle machine and trap hostages in it? But how will you design it because... I TOOK YOUR EYES!!

It's funny, he does this a lot in comics and whatnot, but mostly to expendable chump bad guys and rarely to big bads, because the perpetual, cyclical nature of the comics industry probably dictates that villains can't be crippled for life. I wonder if they believe miraculous recovery from vegetable state is more outlandish than having someone come back from death for a third time.

I'd like to see some one shot's at least just to see how the big bad's would react. How would Bane react to being broken by the Bat? Would he deem it fair play? Plan revenge? Seek forgiveness and redemption because now he literally feels the pain he caused? Deathstroke values his martial prowess, suddenly he's missing a leg. How would he react? Would he fight by hopping about? Would he develop a new martial art and beat Batman anyway?

 

[Mudcrab]

Push Bats far enough and he will fuck you up.

 

[Slayven]

 

[Penguin]

In Under the Red Hood (not sure if this bit is stolen from the comics), the Joker casually mentions that Batman put him in a full body cast for 6 months after the death of Jason Todd

So he does do it, and apparently to the extreme when push comes to shove.

 

[Pau]

Bruce already tortures people.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

I've been saying this forever. Batman should have broken Joker's arms and legs.

 

[TheKaeptain]

I've been saying this forever. Batman should have broken Joker's arms and legs.

He has.

 

[siddhu33]

Batman already does that. You do know that he's batshit (no pun intended) insane, right?

The whole "no killing" thing just is so that he doesn't go over the edge, especially when his entire motivation started from a killing. I'd probably reckon that if Bruce Wayne's parents were tortured until they couldn't move or speak, rather than killed, it would be the other way round; batman would probably kill, but not try to hurt anyone any further. Almost like a superhero that "puts down" his enemies. It would be an interesting alternate universe to explore.

 

[SuperAndroid17]

Did you forget?

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

He has.

Yeah, but he should cut Joker's toungue off as well. Let's see how dangerous he can be as a quadriplegic who can't talk.

 

[SJRB]

Did you play any of the Arkham games? Batman's entire fighting style is about breaking limbs left and right.

In fact, a lot of ambient NPC chatter in Arkham City is about how Batman fucked them up at some point in the past and how they ended up in the hospital with all sorts of broken bones.

 

[Vermillion]

I've been saying this forever. Batman should have broken Joker's arms and legs.

According to Under the Red Hood, he put Joker in a full-body cast for six months. Though you have to wonder - for all the corrupt people in Gotham, why the hell haven't the medics decide to just... not do their jobs when a big bad comes in? I swear, medics have the strongest moral codes in comics.

 

[Valkerionseven]

When he is pushed enough Batman has lost it to the point where he straight up cripples people. Never the main baddies though, because of course they are "tougher" and most importantly have to be reoccurring. Its more a problem of getting crippled, then getting healed at some later point that makes it a weird topic.

Like Batgirl was crippled for years, then she wasn't later.

There are comic characters who will kill people but... most injuries heal in comics so people can come back, if not... they probably get killed off.

 

[SCULLIBUNDO]

According to Under the Red Hood, he put Joker in a full-body cast for six months. Though you have to wonder - for all the corrupt people in Gotham, why the hell haven't the medics decide to just... not do their jobs when a big bad comes in? I swear, medics have the strongest moral codes in comics.

I don't mean put him in a situation he can recover from. I mean make Joker a quadriplegic.


Then cut out his tongue.

 

[kswiston]

Yeah, but he should cut Joker's toungue off as well. Let's see how dangerous he can be as a quadriplegic who can't talk.

He's a popular comic character. He would just recover.

Bullseye is currently working on his second or third time as a quadriplegic over at Marvel (unless something changed in the last two months). Within 5 years, he'll be back to being the deadliest marksman on earth like nothing happened.

 

[Pau]

According to Under the Red Hood, he put Joker in a full-body cast for six months. Though you have to wonder - for all the corrupt people in Gotham, why the hell haven't the medics decide to just... not do their jobs when a big bad comes in? I swear, medics have the strongest moral codes in comics.

People have tried to murder the Joker on their own and shot him in the head and he survived as a "fuck you" to the readers who want this. At this point, the writers/editors aren't going to do anything to put their bigger (and most famous) villains out of commission. Which I think ultimately hurts the story. I think Bruce should have new villains instead of the revolving door of Arkham. It's why I loved Dick Bats so much. We almost got a new set of villains in Gotham.

 

[SJRB]

In the Hush comics, doesn't Batman

Spoiler

severely injure/kill

Joker? I'm not sure.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

I've never seen this... badass

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Batman already does this, basically. It's just that comic villains get better pretty fast, so they can write more stories with them.

 

[Callo Merlose]

He paralyzed the Joker in 1986's The Dark Knight Returns.

 

[Toxi]

You just stumbled onto one of the biggest issues with a fictional comic book world: There is no functioning justice system. Superheroes are a militia that handles all the tough stuff. Because superheroes have to be legitimate, they always get lucky and find criminals committing evil acts in-person (How many times do you see bank robberies and shop holddowns in-person? Certainly not this many times.). The legal police only employ normal people (For some reason) and are basically the clean-up crew. It gets even worse after that; while supervillains generally are imprisoned through the courts system, because of the unchanging state of comics, villains never stay in jail for a significant amount of time, making the entire criminal system look corrupt and ineffectual because their prisons don't even fucking work.

Look at the Joker. He has no powers and should be easy to contain in solitary, but the courts handle it in the dumbest way possible. They send him to Arkham (Why is Arkham an asylum and a jail? Why isn't it just a jail? Don't give me insanity defense bullshit, that's not how the insanity defense works.), where despite having access to technology and superhuman resources, they are unable to keep a skinny pasty guy down for more than a week.

And that's just the Joker. I can't imagine a real world version of the superhero universes not using the death penalty, because there is no realistic way to keep someone like Magneto locked up for very long. Yet because comics reuse villains, the supervillain always is put in prison, which he then breaks out of.

If we had real world militia working all over the world finding people they considered criminals and killing or paralyzing them, there would be chaos. But because in comic land the legal system sucks ass, they're the only ones who can actually protect civvies like us from criminals. That's the only reason this is even a debate; if Batman captured the Joker in the real world and hauled him over to the police, it would most likely be a done deal. In comic land, paralyzing the Joker is the only way to prevent future criminal acts without just killing him.

 

[Toparaman]

I BREAK JOKER'S BACK! MAKE HIM HUMBLE!

 

[Slayven]

Batman already does this, basically. It's just that comic villains get better pretty fast, so they can write more stories with them.

Not in Superior Spiderman Land.

Spiderslayer? More like Spiderslayed.

 

[zeemumu]

He seriously injures people all the time. The criminals that he fights don't just get up and walk away after being knocked unconscious.

 

[The Smoking Bun]

DAMN! I thought the Penance Stare by itself was bad. That is brutal.

Did you forget?

I mentioned Maroni in the OP

 

[Pau]

In the Hush comics, doesn't Batman

Spoiler

severely injure/kill

Joker? I'm not sure.

Spoiler

No he doesn't kill, but he wants to. Gordon shoots Bruce to stop him.

And that's just the Joker. I can't imagine a real world version of the superhero universes not using the death penalty, because there is no realistic way to keep someone like Magneto locked up for very long. Yet because comics reuse villains, the supervillain always is put in prison, which he then breaks out of.

Why would you want to lock up Magneto. ;-;

 

[Cameron122]

batman made his own greatest villain in me

 

[Slayven]

DAMN! I thought the Penance Stare by itself was bad. That is brutal.



I mentioned Maroni in the OP

There are two peopel you do not want after you in the MU. Pissed off Spiderman, and Ghostrider. Punisher will shoot you, Venom will eat you, but what those two do to folks is not to fucked with.

 

[ReiGun]

Why would you want to lock up Magneto. ;-;

Well, let's start with him being a violent mutant terrorist for many, many years.

 

[Koomaster]

I think if he permanently paralyzed or disabled one of the big time guys there is a very real chance it would make them a martyr.

It's one thing for Bats to beat up Joker; the public, his own henchmen and maybe even himself would think; 'Yeah he/I had it coming.' But if Bats paralyzed him for life it would almost make him look as dirty as the guys he fights. I think a wary public would view Batman as even more dangerous; and Joker's henchmen would take up the mantle of taking Batman down; or at the very least harsher revenge crimes in the name of Joker.

Overall I think it would escalate things. The big bads don't take kindly to being humiliated on that scale. Joker, Penguin, etc. would be like; 'Paralyze me; well let's see how the other citizens of gotham feel being paralyzed.'

 

[The Smoking Bun]

Well, let's start with him being a violent mutant terrorist for many, many years.

Well Magneto is a bit more complicated since in his best portrayals he's not some cackling super-villain but a more militant Xavier willing to sacrificing anything to ensure Mutants come out on top. He's rather grey and if they lock him up they would want to do the same to Xavier.

I think if he permanently paralyzed or disabled one of the big time guys there is a very real chance it would make them a martyr.

It's one thing for Bats to beat up Joker; the public, his own henchmen and maybe even himself would think; 'Yeah he/I had it coming.' But if Bats paralyzed him for life it would almost make him look as dirty as the guys he fights. I think a wary public would view Batman as even more dangerous; and Joker's henchmen would take up the mantle of taking Batman down; or at the very least harsher revenge crimes in the name of Joker.

Overall I think it would escalate things. The big bads don't take kindly to being humiliated on that scale. Joker, Penguin, etc. would be like; 'Paralyze me; well let's see how the other citizens of gotham feel being paralyzed.'

Now that is something I would love to see. The payback. Is there a comic that specially deals with such a scenario?
The villains would starting taking harsher measures and things would get very bad, very fast.

 

[freenudemacusers]

Ok so let me give a fair warning that the discussion topic is fairly horrific and not for the faint of heart.

sorry but this made me laugh

 

[Zen_Arcade]

He breaks bones and things but doesn't do any completely irreversible damage because he believes anyone can be reformed and turn their life around.

 

[Cameron122]

sorry but this made me laugh

ths is srs thred i had tears

 

[BuddyJoeHooker]

Batman cripples minds:

 

[The Smoking Bun]

sorry but this made me laugh

Imagine this guy saying it. He get you all works up and then... SUPERHEROES!

He breaks bones and things but doesn't do any completely irreversible damage because he believes anyone can be reformed and turn their life around.

That is interesting. This is something even the Gotham PD believe and it gets ridiculous in the Arkham series where a 10 foot tall man-crocodile hybrid is being kept in a regular prison as opposed to being cut open by scientists trying to figure him out. As far as reformation is concerned, someone like Two-Face can and has been cured while say Cobblepot is just a corrupt businessman/mob boss. There is no reformation, he enjoys being the bad guy in his lust for money and power. He's not doing it because he's desperate.

 

[shadyspace]

He breaks bones and things but doesn't do any completely irreversible damage because he believes anyone can be reformed and turn their life around.

Sounds like Superman talk to me.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Imagine this guy saying it. He get you all works up and then... SUPERHEROES!

That is interesting. This is something even the Gotham PD believe and it gets ridiculous in the Arkham series where a 10 foot tall man-crocodile hybrid is being kept in a regular prison as opposed to being cut open by scientists trying to figure him out. As far as reformation is concerned, someone like Two-Face can and has been cured while say Cobblepot is just a corrupt businessman/mob boss. There is no reformation, he enjoys being the bad guy in his lust for money and power. He's not doing it because he's desperate.

Power hungry criminals can still turn their lives around. All it is is a bad character trait one would have to get over.

As far as Killer Croc, that's just something you have to stretch your imagination with and chalk it up to comic book logic.

Overall Batman believes in the justice system to work everything out. He feels he has no right to be the judge/jury to someone and thinks they deserve a fair trial. He usually only hurts people badly when he's backed into a corner and is forced to.

 

[ReiGun]

Sounds like Superman talk to me.

Not even Superman believes that shit. He thinks there's good in Luthor, but that's cause Luthor has actually demonstrated he has a conscience. He accepts that guys like Zod and Darkseid are beyond saving.

Batman only thinks of Joker as beyond help. Granted, at this point, Joker is way worse than any of Batman's other villains.

 

[way more]

He breaks bones and things but doesn't do any completely irreversible damage because he believes anyone can be reformed and turn their life around.

Which is bullshit. He breaks the femur of a bank robber and then expects that to be the impetus for them to get their GED and a job in the mail room? No, what happens is that criminal ends up in the hospital prison, gets addicted to painkillers, his kids go hungry and possibly turn to crime.

Once he gets out he has no skills, a drug addiction to pills, and the need to make some quick cash to feed his family. It just perpetuates a cycle of cycle of violence, crime, and poverty.

Maybe instead of spending hundreds of millions to dress up and cripple bad people he could use that money to attack the roots of social disorder.

 

[karasu]

Why do people act like it's Batman's duty to punish people? It isn't.

Maybe instead of spending hundreds of millions to dress up and cripple bad people he could use that money to attack the roots of social disorder.

Would you still call the book Batman?

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

MY LEGS! I CAN'T FEEL MY....

 

[Manmademan]

Who cares if Batman cripples or not? This thread is now about He-Man not fucking around anymore.

This aint the 80s! lol

 

[Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!]

He paralyzed the Joker in 1986's The Dark Knight Returns.

He cripples the mutant leader on purpose and has a cool line about crippling when he does it.

 

[Hagi]

Which is bullshit. He breaks the femur of a bank robber and then expects that to be the impetus for them to get their GED and a job in the mail room? No, what happens is that criminal ends up in the hospital prison, gets addicted to painkillers, his kids go hungry and possibly turn to crime.

Once he gets out he has no skills, a drug addiction to pills, and the need to make some quick cash to feed his family. It just perpetuates a cycle of cycle of violence, crime, and poverty.

Maybe instead of spending hundreds of millions to dress up and cripple bad people he could use that money to attack the roots of social disorder.

Yeah well don't start none, won't be none!

Spoiler

Bruce is a pretty big philanthropist, at least in the comics.

 

[Memento Mori]

Batman will torture information out of criminals now and then. From Heart of Hush: Context is

Spoiler

Hush has hospitalised Catwoman.