I am one of them, I legitimately love that film.
I don't mind the ending either, though that's probably because I saw the movie first.
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'Batman v Superman' Fallout: Warner Bros. Shakes Up Executive Roles
- Thread starter ryan299
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I don't mind the ending either, though that's probably because I saw the movie first.
While I enjoyed BvS clearly it bombed critically and commercially. Something needs to be done. If anything some cohesion and oversight is needed.
What I meant was: Superman acting non-heroic is indeed the anti-thesis of his character and that it's okay to put him in a story with a dark tone. I agree 100%, basically.
We interpreted that quote differently.
echoshifting
Banned
Not anymore!
That or he's out of the comics biz, I guess. I don't see how he can possibly do all of this.
Unfortunately for you, you have a minority opinion. Snyder simply has not made the kind of films that the public at large would flock to, hence their underperformance domestically and abroad. The jury is still out on Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman, but they're not off to the kind of start that they wanted or certainly needed.
I don't really like anything he's done, but his major stamp on DC (to my memory at least) was to steamroll over the characters I really liked to replace them with the Silver Age versions that he really liked and I had no attachment to. So, that was annoying.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Because DC has been, save for whatever odd assignment they give to Grant Morrison, trudging in confused, stumbling circles ever since Johns was allowed to place a hand on the steering wheel.
He was a good writer, once upon a time. Every now and again flashes of that (hah! you see what I did there? FLASHes? Hahahahaarhfhfhrarf) will spark in the pages of whatever book he's got before he runs it into the dirt along with the rest of the company's line of books.
But like I said - he's had a heavy hand in the rebooting of the entire DCU twice now and both times he's led the line to what can best be described as floundering mediocrity.
His saving grace is that he's never alone as he does this, so there's always that aspect of plausible deniability in play. Oh, it was DiDio. Oh, it was Writer X going off the reservation. Oh, there just wasn't enough time. Or the best: it's the readers fault for not riding with our ridiculous and stupid conceptions of what these superheroes should be.
And Berg is going to fill that role just fine here, too. And when this thing flounders sideways for the next five or six years and hits intermittent notes that don't faceplant the entire film series but never actually satisfy anyone, either, people will get in line to excuse him and his bullshit once again, to shrug and suggest it wasn't really him.
They had Berlanti and they fuckin BLEW IT.
They blew it.
Suicide Squad has pretty good buzz. I don't know if Wonder Woman has what it takes to beat the first Thor's run though.
Roland_Gunner
Member
Well it may not work, but Johns is at best the #3 guy at DC Comics so I'm not sure how much of that you can hold against him.
Again, it would be crazy to suggest that Johns, or anyone, is going to fix all of the problems at DC / WB but putting the new 52 issues on him instead of DiDio is a reach. Everything that went wrong with the re-boot (meddling editorial, focus on too few titles) was already present with the company when Geoff was just writing there. Maybe you can say that he should have had more impact but its hard to blame a guy for issues that pre-date his involvement.
he's become the Nomura of DC.
Unfortunately you are the vast minority.
serenewarfare
Banned
Regardless of what you think of Johns (I personally like his work), putting the films in the hands of a guy who understands the characters and why they ever worked in the first place can only be a good thing for the films going forward. It's why Marvel has had as much acclaim as they have, because they take what makes the characters appealing to comic fans and make those characteristics resonate with the mass audience.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
broncobuster
Banned
They still have him working on the Booster Gold film. Whether he transitions to other film projects, who knows.
Didn't he say he wouldn't do shit unless he could take Grant Gustin with him for a Flash movie?
echoshifting
Banned
How can you even say that
I know Johns is not beloved by all here but at least he knows how to tell a coherent comic book story that treats its characters with some respect
Eh
I mean... loosely in-charge
But each of those shows have their own showrunners and don't believe he is on any of those shows.
May only be The Flash and even then may be wrong.
Berlanti works on the overall story for all of them.
Hes the overall ruler of that set, each show has its own boss. He did choose poorly for Arrow however.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
This whole thing goes to show a major lack of planning on DC's part. The MCU is basically one big TV show at this point and in order to run something that ambitious, you need a showrunner. You can't just smash Batman and Superman together in a movie and expect to do Avengers money, you also need to make it good. We're past the point where all you can do to make a major blockbuster is put a bunch of over produced CGI in and expect audiences to show up and see the fireworks. You need compelling stories and characters to draw audiences in which is something Batman v Superman failed spectacularly at.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
So Johns, who's only Hollywood experience is getting coffee for Richard Donner and the 2011 Green Lantern movie, is getting put in charge of a movie studio?
It should've made more money and the critical reception was very negative. It was a success, yes, but the quality was not where it needed to be and they need to protect and nurture their upcoming lineup.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Because Batman v Superman didn't make 1.4 billion worldwide.
Somewhat, he seems to okay overall arcs and stuff with DC.
But a lot of the week to week/story beats are handled by the showrunners like Marc or Ali.
Because this movie should have easily made it to a billion as the basement.
Like, it's a decent performer, but under-expectations easily.
And as usually note, it's never the movie that suffers, it will be the next one and the next one if they don't right the ship.
That is awful for two of comics biggest characters in a movie together. This should have been easily in the billions. Not to mention the estimate that it cost in the upper 800 millions after all advertising. So a measly 100million in profits? Yuck
Edit: not to mention first time wonder woman has ever been in a movie!!
Heard the movie plus marketing was around $700-800m.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
If they spent 700m then the break even point would have been ~1.5 billion.
You may have misheard, what a lot of people said was that the break even point was above 800m.
There's nothing wrong with dark. BvS was like early 90s dark though, which is the fake kind of dark.
The tone in this movie was completely dour, humorless, and lacking any self-awareness whatsoever, made worse by the fact that the script also thought way too highly of itself despite reading like something written by a teenager in 1994.
It was "dark" without a purpose, and really Superman shouldn't be a dark character; he works best as a contrast to Batman.
So them changing up producers at the helm of their universe is nothing but a good idea at this point. There is still potential here, though honestly they're going to have to work really hard to salvage it because I didn't care for either of their first two offerings in the DCCU.
Though to be honest, I'm really not crazy about their selection here. I'm not really a big fan of their TV offerings, so I don't really see Johns as a big saving grace.
Because it should have cleared a billion standing on its head and it was supposed to launch a cinematic universe worth of films. Critical reception has made both of those things very hard which is nuts because at the end of the day it's goddamn Batman and Superman on the big screen. Alarm bells and panic buttons should be going apeshit over at WB.
The Silver
Member
I just can't forgive Johns for getting rid of Wally
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
This is absolutely wrong. Film's budget plus marketing was around $450 million.
Including overseas fees, it needed to make MINIMUM $800 million just to break even. They didn't get nearly the return they wanted and for a film featuring two massive icons meeting, they blew it. $900 million is nothing to scoff at but the negative view this film leaves only hurts the future films which means each film going forward could potentially make less and less. This is why the panic button was pushed. Snyder has a rock solid contract but expect him to be gone after JL is finished. Supposedly, they've already done rewrites on the script.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'm giving 3-1 odds that Johns' first act as co-czar of the DCU is to put underwear back on Superman.
Well I for one would support that notion.
CharminUltra
Member
BvS's legacy will live on forever.
WaterAstro
Member
How to fix the movie problems.
Retcon Snyder's films and use the TV series universe into cinema.
Retcon Snyder's films and use the TV series universe into cinema.
Fury Road had a lot of reshoots and that turned out pretty good.
Anything that slowly gives more input and minimizes Snyder's hand is alright by me. He is the common denominator in their universe so far that I dislike. I hated BvS, and MoS was terrible to me too. The heroes aren't even likable, and I find that just confusing.
In theory, Snyder's penchant for wanting to 1:1 convert beatiful comic panels into images on screen is admirable. But if you don't surround that shit with a movie worth watching, I'm not gonna fucking care man.
I'm just really glad as FUCK that Warner Brothers is reacting. For a while it looked like they were gonna dig their heels in and trudge forward ignoring the pushback. I'm glad they decided against that. Money talks I guess.
Condolences to those that really, truly, genuinely actually liked Snyder's movies. Being in the minority and having that vision interfered with probably doesn't feel good. But in the end I think it'll be better for the brand if the appeal is bigger than it is right now.
There's literally nothing wrong with a Dark tone. Nolans movies also had a dark tone compared to Marvel fare.
The problem is a lot of us viewers feel that they have failed to execute this dark tone "properly". The execution is wonky, not the desired tone.
In theory, Snyder's penchant for wanting to 1:1 convert beatiful comic panels into images on screen is admirable. But if you don't surround that shit with a movie worth watching, I'm not gonna fucking care man.
I'm just really glad as FUCK that Warner Brothers is reacting. For a while it looked like they were gonna dig their heels in and trudge forward ignoring the pushback. I'm glad they decided against that. Money talks I guess.
Condolences to those that really, truly, genuinely actually liked Snyder's movies. Being in the minority and having that vision interfered with probably doesn't feel good. But in the end I think it'll be better for the brand if the appeal is bigger than it is right now.
There's literally nothing wrong with a Dark tone. Nolans movies also had a dark tone compared to Marvel fare.
The problem is a lot of us viewers feel that they have failed to execute this dark tone "properly". The execution is wonky, not the desired tone.
GraveRobberX
Platinum Trophy: Learned to Shit While Upright Again.
Classic or Frank Miller's "Super Package"
Just have the Flash go whoa this universe is fucked and have him speedforce into a well directed movie universe.
Maybe that'll take away his dourness. Giving him back his comfortable briefs.
broncobuster
Banned
They aced the red boots in the comics. Not getting red undies til we loop back round.
Although the yellow bat emblem is surely happening. Bank on it.
Kaneda Shotaro
Member
Also, I heard some of the investors were livid when they were delivered a "poor man's Watchmen 2" when all they wanted was the two heroes uniting. Nobody really cared about the script because they thought it was going to be a shoe in. This taught them a lesson which is why they're looking for a Feige, someone to do the daily work of actually reading and editing the material before it goes to production.
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