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Battlefield 3 News Thread of BE ADVISED: Reviews On Monday

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Well since CS is the only competitive FPS I feel has completely strong enough gameplay feedback it's clearly not an easy thing to do. I've not played BF3 yet so I won't say DICE haven't done it, but based on my experiences with 43 and BC2, I highly doubt they will.
 

LordCanti

Member
I need the hit marker. I need the satisfaction of knowing I hit something, even if I didn't bring a guy down (especially when sniping). How frustrating would it be to put shot after shot down range on a huge map, and never know if you've hit anything?
 

mr_nothin

Banned
LordCanti said:
I need the hit marker. I need the satisfaction of knowing I hit something, even if I didn't bring a guy down (especially when sniping). How frustrating would it be to put shot after shot down range on a huge map, and never know if you've hit anything?
Triangle shooter!

EDIT:
But seriously though, hit reaction + blood should give you a good indication of whether you hit someone or not. That's just how I feel.
 
Foliorum Viridum said:
Well since CS is the only competitive FPS I feel has completely strong enough gameplay feedback it's clearly not an easy thing to do. I've not played BF3 yet so I won't say DICE haven't done it, but based on my experiences with 43 and BC2, I highly doubt they will.


It's weird that cs is pretty much the only shooter to ever really get the feedback right.
It's still the only game where I don't generally waste any bullets, because the moment I press my mouse button I know if I will have my kill or not.

You just don't see 1-2 bullet long range headshot kills in other games, people will always keep spraying or shooting after the enemy drops because they don't know.

It's what makes cs so magical and what's always a downer in other games for me.

Especially the 'collapsing' human slow death animations don't sit well with me in bf3 alpha, I want my damn feedback, and since the gunplay in this game is too poor to provide it it will have to come from the animations (cs has both).
 

Hulud

Member
Halo, you can see people's shields flare/pop when you shoot them. In "realistic" games like CoD/BF it's a lot harder to convey all that info with just a small blood spurt. Hence the hit markers. I'm okay with them.
 

mr_nothin

Banned
SneakyStephan said:
It's weird that cs is pretty much the only shooter to ever really get the feedback right.
It's still the only game where I don't generally waste any bullets, because the moment I press my mouse button I know if I will have my kill or not.

You just don't see 1-2 bullet long range headshot kills in other games, people will always keep spraying or shooting after the enemy drops because they don't know.

It's what makes cs so magical and what's always a downer in other games for me.

Especially the 'collapsing' human slow death animations don't sit well with me in bf3 alpha, I want my damn feedback, and since the gunplay in this game is too poor to provide it it will have to come from the animations (cs has both).
I disagree there. It's all the blood you see. There's barely any hit reaction in cs/css and even then it's still the game that best communicates whether or not you hit someone w/o hitmarkers.

Unless you're talking about animation of the guns. But I do agree with everything else
 
SneakyStephan said:
It's weird that cs is pretty much the only shooter to ever really get the feedback right.
It's still the only game where I don't generally waste any bullets, because the moment I press my mouse button I know if I will have my kill or not.

You just don't see 1-2 bullet long range headshot kills in other games, people will always keep spraying or shooting after the enemy drops because they don't know.

It's what makes cs so magical and what's always a downer in other games for me.

Especially the 'collapsing' human slow death animations don't sit well with me in bf3 alpha, I want my damn feedback, and since the gunplay in this game is too poor to provide it it will have to come from the animations (cs has both).
Yup, I agree completely.

There's a reason CS is, and forever will be, the king of the online FPS.
 

Stallion Free

Cock Encumbered
mr_nothin said:
I disagree there. It's all the blood you see. There's barely any hit reaction in cs/css and even then it's still the game that best communicates whether or not you hit someone w/o hitmarkers.
Blood *is* a hit reaction.
 

Kyaw

Member
It would be nice if we can have exploding body parts from tank shell hits.

W@W had this, the visual feedback of landing a hit is pretty good in that game actually.
 
mr_nothin said:
I disagree there. It's all the blood you see. There's barely any hit reaction in cs/css and even then it's still the game that best communicates whether or not you hit someone w/o hitmarkers.

Unless you're talking about animation of the guns. But I do agree with everything else

The super reliable netcode and the way you learn to know how your weapon behaves, combined with the crazy headshot animation.
I'm not talking about css here, just to be clear, css was a huge step back in both animation feedback and weapon behavior.
The headshot animation is all a player needs in cs, animation wise.
 

mr_nothin

Banned
Stallion Free said:
Blood *is* a hit reaction.
It's a hit indicator. By reaction I meant the character models flinching when being hit.

SneakyStephan said:
The super reliable netcode and the way you learn to know how your weapon behaves, combined with the crazy headshot animation.
I'm not talking about css here, just to be clear, css was a huge step back in both animation feedback and weapon behavior.
I'm not about to get into a cs vs css argument here! lol but I will say that *even* css is miles ahead of other online MP games when it comes to feedback w/o indicators. The new CSS beta, that's in limbo, is MILES ahead of the regular CSS thats out now...when it comes to netcode and weapon behavior.
 
Yeah css is still ahead in gunplay, but they made these wonky floaty running animations that make it hard to read if someone is changing direction or not, and the headshot animation is less immediate too.

It's still better than everything else but cs as you said, but it's a step back nonetheless.
Sometimes realism just has to take a backseat to gameplay.
CSS kind of forgot that, and most other shooters never came to that realisation in the first place.

If you can't tell within 2 frames that you killed someone, then start over.
If you can't tell wether you hit someone or not JUST based from weapon behavior (for all the recoil and spread cs has, it's impressive that you can always tell when you play it right) then you should also be looking at your priorities as a dev.

The thing is, other developers have just given up on chasing that rare combination of netcode, feedback, animation and hit detection and weapon behaviour.
Games like sofII back in the day still tried, failed miserably and looked bad in comparison.
Now they just take the realism angle and forgo gameplay as a priority alltogether.

Dice was never good at gunplay (sorry edited, wrong word) to begin with, as long as conquest is as good as in 1942 I can live with it, but I still dream of one day getting proper feedback and gunplay in a bf game.
For me bf 3 is going to hinge on vehicle physics and sandbox gameplay or a lack thereof.
For infantry only shooters it's unforgivable though.
 
EA Support is awful they contradict each other with every sentence.

I contacted them with a query and they said that MOH:LE will get early access to closed beta and people who pre-ordered it from Origin will get early access to open beta. I was under the impression there would only be one beta in september.

Ive been escalated higher up but its a long queue to confirm.
 

Ubersnug

Member
TheLegendOfMart said:
EA Support is awful they contradict each other with every sentence.

I contacted them with a query and they said that MOH:LE will get early access to closed beta and people who pre-ordered it from Origin will get early access to open beta. I was under the impression there would only be one beta in september.

Ive been escalated higher up but its a long queue to confirm.

There is only one Beta which will be open to all. However, MOH:Tier 1 owners and those who preorder on origin will get 2 day early access to the open beta.
 
DigiMish said:
One of the most shallow dev blog entries I've ever read.

Yeah, that was weak. "You can customize your guns. Come back for a more in-depth blog post about this later!"

Norml said:
Since trees don't seem to disappear, I kept waiting for him to knock one down then make a hole under it and have cover:)

I love the trees falling, though I noticed a few times that they disappear based on the angle that you're looking at them. Hoping that was just an alpha thing--would suck to think you're hidden but the entire enemy team can see you.

The fallen trees gave excellent cover/concealment, for both guarding and attacking A.
 

Asgaro

Member
Cuban Legend said:
I haven't heard anyone criticize the BF3 weapon feel at all so I guess Demize99 (Alan Kertz) is doing his job well so far, despite his personal twitter opinions.

xD HATERS GONNA HATE
Yeah, his tweets are quite fun!
Sometimes he trolls, sometimes he's mad, sometimes you notice he's getting irritated by the commo-rose requests. Love it.
 

Sethos

Banned
Asgaro said:
Yeah, his tweets are quite fun!
Sometimes he trolls, sometimes he's mad, sometimes you notice he's getting irritated by the commo-rose requests. Love it.

So you're saying he acts human? Damn, must be a first for a community rooted dev. :p
 
DigiMish said:
One of the most shallow dev blog entries I've ever read.

Gunplay is important. We're having real-life experts provide us with info. Animations are also important. End.

The gunplay was the least complained about in the alpha so he has done a good job.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
DigiMish said:
One of the most shallow dev blog entries I've ever read.

Gunplay is important. We're having real-life experts provide us with info. Animations are also important. End.
Yeah, I posted it before I read it because I thought it sounded like it would be more in depth.
 

LordCanti

Member
Ubersnug said:
There is only one Beta which will be open to all. However, MOH:Tier 1 owners and those who preorder on origin will get 2 day early access to the open beta.

That's my understanding as well. Who knows with EA though.
 

Asgaro

Member
Sethos said:
So you're saying he acts human? Damn, must be a first for a community rooted dev. :p
Lol! But yeah I was trying to say he really shows his emotions, more than any other dev at Dice. I bet trolling and joking about commo-rose isn't without the risk of losing his popularity.
So that's why he's awesome shizz.
 

Kyaw

Member
That's like the least informative Battleblog post ever.

Authentic bla bla bla and check out weapon customization stuff in the near future!

It's probably the calm before the
Gamescom
Storm.
 

subversus

I've done nothing with my life except eat and fap
hahaha, this new blog post was written by demize99 and as he is currently slaving away 7 days a week it explains its barebones nature.
 

DigiMish

Member
subversus said:
hahaha, this new blog post was written by demize99 and as he is currently slaving away 7 days a week it explains its barebones nature.

On twitter, it says that Demize99 is Alan Kertz, and the blog was written by someone called "HBrun".
 

Sanjay

Member
Cuban Legend said:
I haven't heard anyone criticize the BF3 weapon feel at all so I guess Demize99 (Alan Kertz) is doing his job well so far, despite his personal twitter opinions.

Yeah the BF3 weapons are on par with COD games. Really shocked how the feel is as good as the COD games, did not see this coming. Looking good for BF3.
 

jonremedy

Member
Sanjay said:
Yeah the BF3 weapons are on par with COD games. Really shocked how the feel is as good as the COD games, did not see this coming. Looking good for BF3.

Does this hold true for the weapon SOUNDS as well? The Battlefield games have always had this tendency to have gun-sounds that are kind of off. If you tap, sometimes you can hear the start of the next bullet fire-sound before it abruptly stops. This stuff annoys me very much.
 

Sanjay

Member
jonremedy said:
Does this hold true for the weapon SOUNDS as well? The Battlefield games have always had this tendency to have gun-sounds that are kind of off. If you tap, sometimes you can hear the start of the next bullet fire-sound before it abruptly stops. This stuff annoys me very much.

I did not notice this so I'm guessing no, but sound is one department I think DICE excels in though.
 
jonremedy said:
Does this hold true for the weapon SOUNDS as well? The Battlefield games have always had this tendency to have gun-sounds that are kind of off. If you tap, sometimes you can hear the start of the next bullet fire-sound before it abruptly stops. This stuff annoys me very much.

uh the sounds are one of the better components in battlefield games. BF3 is even better.
 

mr_nothin

Banned
Sethos said:
Go away with that BS.

He's right, DICE for the first time ever actually nailed the gunplay and it's on par with the best gunplay on the market right now, Call of Duty. I'd even go as far as saying better because Battlefield 3 have superior sounds. It's not slagging off Call of Duty using them as the direct comparison.
Nope...
Just no...
Nuh Un...
No way...
Does not compute.
 
Sethos said:
Go away with that BS.

He's right, DICE for the first time ever actually nailed the gunplay and it's on par with the best gunplay on the market right now, Call of Duty. I'd even go as far as saying better because Battlefield 3 have superior sounds. It's not slagging off Call of Duty using them as the direct comparison.

This was a worth a chuckle or two. Really sad if you actually believe this though. Fun? ...sure. Best? ...not even close.
 

Sethos

Banned
BrLvgThrChmstry said:
This was a worth a chuckle or two. Really sad if you actually believe this though. Fun? ...sure. Best? ...not even close.

Okay my good man, shed some light on which games you find has the best gunplay then. No, I'm not talking close to reality and all that BS, I mean enjoyable to use over long periods of time.
 
mr_nothin said:
Nope...
Just no...
Nuh Un...
No way...
Does not compute.

I still have my doubts about BF3's netcode, but a lot of COD's great gunplay is netcode + 60 fps. If they tighten up the netcode, there really isn't anything stopping it from equaling or exceeding (PARTICULARLY in sound...still hate COD's sounds) COD.

But again...netcode. The weapon models and handling in BF3 are fucking superb.
 
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