Directors today tend to "earn" their passion projects from studios that they have made very good money for. That's the smart way of doing things. Prove your worth, then get your passion project.
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Bayonetta 2 off to a slow start in Japan [Update: Week 2 sales]
- Thread starter SomewhatGroovy
- Start date
Directors today tend to "earn" their passion projects from studios that they have made very good money for. That's the smart way of doing things. Prove your worth, then get your passion project.
Bayo 2 is more like Sin City 2 if we're talking about box office.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
And that's why Platinum are making what looks a lot like a Monster Hunter Clone for MS.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Are we even sure that Nintendo only planned Bayonetta 2 as a fan thing and did not expect returns? Sure I doubt their losses are significant but it could still be disappointing. I mean this was the Nintendo that forecasted 9 million WiiU's in a year before cutting it down to 2.8. Iwata or Nintendo, unlike then, now recognise the reality of WiiU's situation.
A Twisty Fluken
Member
i shudder to think what this thread would be like without you
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
If you think Nintendo are a stupider publisher than every other publisher that turned P* down for funding the sequel; no, they were expecting to make money like every project does.
If you don't; it seems like a yes.
And they earned Bayo 2 because of this? lol
Aquamarine
Member
I'm certain that Nintendo greenlit + allocated the funds for the project before the Wii U released.
So no...at the time they probably expected returns similar to the original Bayonetta.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Except perhaps on a Nintendo system naturally.
I guess it depends how close Nintendo was to working on the Wii-U and when they wanted Bayonetta 2. I get the feeling Nintendo were riding on the Wii hype train and thought they could do no wrong, so they probably expected it to sell millions.
Outside of Nintendo games, they are pretty notorious for ignoring most of their other titles. How many games have they released with little to no marketing to pre-hype. Sent to die should be the nintendo 3rd party motto.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I doubt MS will let them keep the IP, and I doubt they would have any interest in working with Nintendo to allow them to make one.
MS aren't Sega.
Scalebound is a MonHun clone? When did we find that out?
That's actually good news to me, I was fearing some stupid monster controlling shit.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
yeah thats what I thought as well.
While Bayonetta 2 may not be profitable, will be a bomb in sales and not help the WiiU situation, it can not be seen as anything but a positive from a gamer's view. Combined with the loss likely not being significant, I would say the venture was worth it.
Haha. It could be a turn based RTS for all we know. They showed pretty much nothing apart from video footage. I am getting some sci-fi MH vibe from it but I just don't know what it could be at this point.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
Speculation based on the reveal trailer, and the assumption that its trying to show gameplay themes and not just pure CGI bullshit unrelated to gameplay
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
CGI showed us you fight large monsters and then control large monsters to fight other large monsters. I'm really struggling to see the MH in that unless you equate fighting with large monsters as being a MH clone in which case lol
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
... That's exaxtly what I'm saying between the lines.
The studio has. Hence the green light.
Man, I've been launching games for a decade and I'm not even as much as a cynic as you seem to be here
SwiftDeath
Member
No it is not at all. Had Bayonetta sold through 85% - 95% of its intial shipment, guess what would've happened in the preceding days? Nintendo would've shipped more. That's what happened for Smash 3DS for instance as it continued to sell out and Nintendo did its best to ship new stock as quickly as possible. Bayonetta 2 has struggled to sell its initial allotment of ~60k, there is no logical reason to having known that conclude that if the initial shipment was significantly larger it would sell more. What evidence is there that Bayonetta 2 wasn't "on shelves in the more densely populated electronic focused areas"? Retailer expectations dictate intial shipment and following shipments, pre-orders likely dictate retailer expectations, so blame Wii U owners or Nintendo marketing for the initial low shipment as retailers were simply acting rationally
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
... And you're not getting what I'm saying between the lines.
You don't know what the movie studio spent on marketing. Nor do you know their distribution deal in U.S. Vs Abroad; not all that money goes into the same pocket, nor are the margins the same. You're making assumptions.
Same with the game. You dont know the full extent of what Nintendo spent on this project or all their monetization plans, what revenue streams they'll get off this content or even what their goals were for hitting it. You're making assumptions based on your personal projections.
And if you follow my other responses, on the surface I was saying there was a lot of people happy with producing that movie and there are a lot of people happy with producing this game so to reduce it to a simple "all that time and money for nothing" is living in a vacuum of reality and is cold and disengenous
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
it has human vs monster combat, the human is wearing armour clearly made from the same hide as one of the monsters, and a larger monster is 'summoned' based on the killing of a smaller monster as bait for the larger one. It also has a single dragon monster as an obvious ally throughout the sequence.
Its pointless speculating too much based on the CG trailer, because you could just as easily conclude that its this gens Lair from the same footage.
I've just rewatched the trailer, I still think it's going to be controlling monsters shit. Maybe co-op because you briefly see other players at the end, but they're all riding monsters, and they're all covered in scales, making loot redundant, making the MonHun concept redundant.
No, I read between the lines and disagreed with what was there.
Your point, as I took it, was 'not every film studio cares about turning a profit', but that's not the case. Even the so called 'vanity projects' of directors are expected to cover their costs. Moreover, those vanity projects are only earned based on high sales performance from their other films. Neither part of that is anything like Bayo 2, it won't cover its costs, and W101 wasn't some huge hit that earned Platinum a vanity project.
Where is the smash success they created for Nintendo. Where is their Batman franchise exactly?
Directors earn passion projects from studios they've had hits with. Where are the hit platinum made for Nintendo?
I'm drawing a blank, perhaps I am ignorant of what they released for Nintendo.
MS owns Scalebound.
Aquamarine
Member
What you don't understand is that initial shipments are determined by RETAILER demand. Retailers only buy what they think will sell to consumers. Low (55%) retailer sell-through indicates that retailers were too optimistic in their initial projections, and they won't rush to order more inventory when they run out.
The point of comparing Bayonetta on PS3 / 360 and Bayonetta 2 on Wii U is to show there is a distinct, relative lack of demand between the two.
This manifests itself in both games sold-in (a steep decline in initial retailer shipments) and games sold-through (a steep decline in games sold to consumes).
I am thinking adult and more serious Pokemon. Might be some monster hunting and catching,then using them in combat. Probably co-op focused as well, hence the player colours blending with their pets.
ninjablade
Banned
The character had a sword and armor,I think it will be an action/adventure game.
Was a joke. I know I'm not a funny man.
Supermanisdead
Member
man, i cant believe ninjablade is still at it
Except Bayo 2 is good.
corrosivefrost
Member
I laughed.
JetSetRadio
Banned
375.000 worldwide would be amazing.
I need to take my sarcasm detector in for repair.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Meta critic, and their community engagement.
As I said, Nintendo has a third party product management team, the same as every publisher, that is given a budget from executive management to facilitate content and broaden their release portfolio.
They have several objectives. Revenue and profit are obviously one, but also to fill release calenders, build relations with independent studios, grow fan reach and engagement outside of what the first party production studios do. And to make this content without the opportunity cost of internal talent.
You are only focusing on the P&L.
As a business person, I understand revenue preeeeeety well. But I also understand a larger strategic vision and tactics that fulfill it. My original point, and I'll stop arguing it, was saying "all that time and money for nothing" is demonstrating a lack of understanding in how this all works. There are parties that are genuinely successful and happy with this arrangement.
The studio in the industry is considered a critical darling. Some people think that alone is worth investment and it's the sales and marketing job to turn that into profit. Not all investments pay off clearly but if we are hitting a 90 or near 90 metacritic and buzz enhancement metrics are high for it, especially with an audience outside of first party production teams, the third party relations people did their job.
And wii u owners get a dope game.
Terrific post. I couldn't agree more. FWIW, I think there are plenty of in-house Nintendo releases as well, be they eShop or retail, which are released for similar reasons to those described above, although pretty much none of them would fall under these exact same auspices as despite their more niche status, they still would have the classic Nintendo feel much more than something like Bayonetta does.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I am pretty concerned for Platinum's future past Scalebound -- an MS Xbox One exclusive with japanese style focus and appeal!
Hopefully Revengeance 2 is far more of a mega-hit to have at least one big success story in their stable rather than trading purely on meta-critic scores which is an incredibly naive concept for the long term health of their business.
Such a shame they fell foul of hitching their wagon to the black hole that is modern Sega really. Bayonetta and Vanquish were some of the top games of last gen, and while the former experienced okay sales, theres just no accounting for the bomba of the latter. Anarchy Reigns didn't stand a chance, then Nintendo stiffed them on any meaningful W101 push, and here we are with Bayonetta 2. Talk about your uphill struggles.
Hopefully Revengeance 2 is far more of a mega-hit to have at least one big success story in their stable rather than trading purely on meta-critic scores which is an incredibly naive concept for the long term health of their business.
Such a shame they fell foul of hitching their wagon to the black hole that is modern Sega really. Bayonetta and Vanquish were some of the top games of last gen, and while the former experienced okay sales, theres just no accounting for the bomba of the latter. Anarchy Reigns didn't stand a chance, then Nintendo stiffed them on any meaningful W101 push, and here we are with Bayonetta 2. Talk about your uphill struggles.
Its not just the profit and losses for the single title, its about how they are spending their resources on titles that do them no favors and do not push their brands when they clearly need titles that do just that.
Bayo 2 instead of a Halo, Uncharted, God of War etc. Bad decision. It won't sell anything. The Wii U is in the dumpster because they are busily funding the Wonderful 101's and Bayo 2's of the world vs. games that will actually sell units.
I mean if their goal is to have the greatest niche console of all time and never sell above 10 million units. Then yeah, good show Nintendo.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Ooohhhh okay, so you don't understand the kind of company Nintendo IS (and not what you'd prefer them to be). Well that saves me the trouble of continuing this dance then
Carry on
Sure I do, I am not in any way shape or form surprised by their funding of this title or the state they are in currently.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I feel funding Bayo 2 was more of a (more or less) cheap way to have another exclusive core title for Wii U and improve their library of genres Nintendo themselves can't really provide. I don't feel they were expecting huge sales, but I guess Bayo 2 alongside other similar deals they did, they expect to improve marginally the sales of it's console by provinding, slowly, more reasons for core gamers to buy a console down the line....
...but yeah, they're probably doing it for the love of gaming.
Agree with this. I've said it before in this thread
Just look at how many people are talking about the game and/or said they were considering buying a Wii U for it. Maybe they will, maybe they won't, but this is what Bayo2 was all about for Nintendo.
I also wouldn't be surprised if P* works on a third WiiU project after this if nintendo is willing to fund/publish. They know the platform, have a stable engine running etc.
i kind of don't think you have a feeler out there for how the market works. like one game, any game, would have people flock from this well-established, well-trained group of system owners on other platforms to a nintendo-centric one. instead of getting some sort of garbage studio to make a garbage game similar to any of the three you listed in a half-hearted attempt to satisfy a demographic, they went for something that would earn them a little bit of respect. they tried what you want to see them do in the past. it got them final fantasy crystal chronicles, metal gear solid: the twin snakes, resident evil 0, and geist.
it's unfair to pin all of nintendo's problems on just one or two games or even use them as examples for greater problems. did you think this was a huge issue when sin & punishment 2 came out, or did you just happen to enjoy the ride on that one?