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[Wendler]

Wrong. Yes, pretty much any other publisher would have been better, as Nintendo is the only one that forced the game to a failed platform, leaving no real chance of success, but that doesn't mean Sony or MS would be 'good', they probably wouldn't have been. The post you originally quoted was not about Bayo 2 being elsewhere, but about using the time they did to make it, to make a game that had a chance of being a hit.

I didn't say Platinum being happy once. I would prefer the game on any of the higher performance platforms, that goes for every single game, and I would never deny that. However, I have a Wii U, I have Bayo 2 preordered, and I'm very excited about it.

I disagree. If it were on platforms that would have allowed for better sales, it would have reflected much better on Platinum, which would make them viable for other publishers.

Yes, which is why I said using the time to make something other than Bayo 2 could have been better.

Being multiplatform might have helped PR in terms of not pissing off Platinum fans, but I don't really believe the conviction of those opinions. I think almost anyone who has the conviction to refuse to buy games they want because of an action of the developer, wouldn't be the kind of person who would refuse on the grounds of a game being exclusive to the only interested publisher.

All speculative, there's really nothing to debate.

I didn't say that quote, so I don't know if you're referring to someone else. I do own a Wii U, and no, I don't care about Nintendo, or Sony, or Microsoft, or any of the publishers, or Platinum actually.

The anime game is a cheap license game, I don't it says much. Scalebound would have been penned before W101 I imagine. It's true that a publisher would consider the failure of the Wii U in relation to the failure of those games though.

If I wanted to port-beg, I'd do it. Why would I hide preferring the game on a better console? It would be objectively superior, however, I'm happy to buy it on Wii U. And again, my point wasn't that it should be elsewhere, just that this being 'the best solution' isn't necessarily true, and that no Bayo 2 could have been better for Platinum than this situation.

I am not sure why you are responding to every paragraph I wrote. There is really nothing to discuss and I wrote that this is more of a general post, not all being directed at you. I just used you as an example to write an entirely logical post.

And "All speculative, there's really nothing to debate." is a really funny sentence. I could counter every arguement in this thread by saying this, but that's not the point.

 

[Elios83]

Define "commercial failure."


Bayonetta had like ~400K USA sales, 341,437 Japanese sales, etc.

We also know that Platinum Games always operates on a super-lean budget and a small staff.

So how is 1 million sales from a studio like that a "commercial failure"?

I guess relatively to the publisher's expectations it wasn't enough. Maybe initially while not satisfied with the performance Sega thought there was growth potential, when they realized that on the contrary a sequel would sell even less they dropped the rights and Nintendo came in.
Unfortuntely it is becoming relatively common to see titles selling even more than 1 million units being considered failures, it depends on the budget versus years in development and the expected return on the investements.

 

[megabytecr]

People miss the point. Nintendo funded Bayo 1 and 2, W101, Devil´s Third and NGRE to build the library to attract certain gamers, they do it to make the Wii U a more enticing product, of course they want them to sell, but they know what they are funding and the risks, to me it is pretty clear this is just a strategy to make the Wii U library more attractive, it certainly is IMHO.

 

[MormaPope]

I'm Platinum and I'm seeing the audience that bought the first Bayonetta. I'm seeing that many consider it to be the best game of its genre. Seeing all of this, I put it on...the WiiU? Sequel to a console that had no where near the general demographic of those who bought the first Bayonetta? That's called poor decision making.

I'm not hating. I'm going to buy a WiiU AND this game because I'm going to support. I wish my support was enough. I just believe Platinum deserves better and a lot of people should be playing their games. I don't like these numbers and I do find them sad and irritating.

@seik --- So Platinum is so dedicated to just making works of art that they don't care at all about sales?

Ok. Fine.

Well *I* care about their sales and *I* want lots of people playing their games.

Almost none of the money came from their pockets.

Why would they be distressed when they get to create a title they want to create with very little repercussions? Nintendo took a risk, not Platinum.

 

[TheTwelve]

Almost none of the money came from their pockets.

Why would they be distressed when they get to create a title they want to create with very little repercussions? Nintendo took a risk, not Platinum.

I'm willing to concede for the sake of these forums that Platinum lives in la-la-land and don't care about sales/growth of an IP/making money to grow as a developer/wanting as many people as possible to play their masterpieces/feeding their children with money earned from games.

GOT IT.

I now see that Platinum is a group of Shaolin-monk-like developers in terms of their discipline and extraordinary skill, and in fact would hand out copies of their game for free if someone would just pay for their tools and daily meals.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I'm willing to concede for the sake of these forums that Platinum lives in la-la-land and don't care about sales/growth of an IP/making money to grow as a developer/wanting as many people as possible to play their masterpieces/feeding their children with money earned from games.

GOT IT.

I now see that Platinum is a group of Shaolin-monk-like developers in terms of their discipline and extraordinary skill, and in fact would hand out copies of their game for free if someone would just pay for their tools and daily meals.

Have you ever had a salaried job?

 

[TheTwelve]

Have you ever had a salaried job?

I'm writing from the office of my salaried job arguing with people on NeoGaf right now, in fact.... (shhh)

...why?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I'm writing from the office of my salaried job arguing with people on NeoGaf right now, in fact.... (shhh)

...why?

Are you deeply invested in the products your parent company creates, or do you care more about having a steady job and being paid a regular wage?

 

[ArcaneFreeze]

Are you deeply invested in the products your parent company creates, or do you care more about having a steady job and being paid a regular wage?

That fact that he's arguing on NeoGAF while supposedly working shows how much interest he has in his parent company.

 

[StuBurns]

Platinum staff have to care about the success of the company. In an ideal world, every creator could make whatever they want, and make a healthy living off of it, but that's not the case.

Platinum aren't in danger anyway, maybe in terms of remaining independent. A publisher will have to pick them up at some point, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[MormaPope]

I'm willing to concede for the sake of these forums that Platinum lives in la-la-land and don't care about sales/growth of an IP/making money to grow as a developer/wanting as many people as possible to play their masterpieces/feeding their children with money earned from games.

GOT IT.

I now see that Platinum is a group of Shaolin-monk-like developers in terms of their discipline and extraordinary skill, and in fact would hand out copies of their game for free if someone would just pay for their tools and daily meals.

You realize that you're geeking out over sales and such more than some Platinum employees, right? Nintendo loses with this deal, not Platinum. Why have a fear mongering attitude with a product that was going to be niche to begin with?

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

Platinum staff have to care about the success of the company. In an ideal world, every creator could make whatever they want, and make a healthy living off of it, but that's not the case.

Platinum aren't in danger anyway, maybe in terms of remaining independent. A publisher will have to pick them up at some point, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Sure, but there is a wide gulf when working as a creative in a work-for-hire scenario (as third party developers all do) between wanting to be succesful in order to maintain steady employment, and this airy-fairy desire to "grow IP" and "wanting as many people to play their masterpieces"

 

[TheTwelve]

Are you deeply invested in the products your parent company creates, or do you care more about having a steady job and being paid a regular wage?

I'd do my job for free, because I believe in it.

If you're making that point, it's a very good one.

*However*.

I do not live in lala-land and I know that I need to make money.

That's why I left a former salaried job of the same kind to come to this new one.

I also love my product so much that I want more and more people to get involved with it. I advertise it as such. This would lead to more money, which I'd be able to invest and grow the ability to reach others with my product. It would also make my life more comfortable.

I don't believe what I'm talking about here is unusual. In fact, it's human.

To suggest that Platinum, now also currently in bed with Microsoft, do not care at all about sales or money and promotion of their product = ideas that only exist and find life in the closed environments of forums.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be that pure drive to just make good work and art; this ideal should always be number one. But we can't forget about reality.

 

[StuBurns]

Sure, but there is a wide gulf when working as a creative in a work-for-hire scenario (as third party developers all do) between wanting to be succesful in order to maintain steady employment, and this airy-fairy desire to "grow IP" and "wanting as many people to play their masterpieces"

I've certainly read interviews with artists who were very frustrated at having a limited audience, and I think that can be written off as someone wanting to sell out, but there's the more positive outlook that they're proud of their work, they believe they've spent five years pouring all this effort into this beautiful thing, and only 400k people pick it up, and another 400k are kicking shit in your face over Twitter for having made it.

There is the company security aspect, but it must just suck to have a game bomb if you know you've made something special.

 

[MormaPope]

To suggest that Platinum, now also currently in bed with Microsoft, do not care at all about sales or money and promotion of their product = ideas that only exist and find life in the closed environments of forums.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be that pure drive to just make good work and art; this ideal should always be number one. But we can't forget about reality.

I'm sure the people at Platinum aren't idiots. They evaluated the Bayonetta 2 situation and made a decision. Completely underestimating the intelligence of both game developers and publishers is way too common.

 

[See You Next Wednesday]

First week sales (Famitsu):

Bayonetta (PS3) - 138,430 copies

Bayonetta (360) - 66,211 copies

Bayonetta 1 + 2 (Wii U) - 33,114 copies

...

Bayonetta (PS3 + 360) - 204,641 copies





Second week sales (Famitsu):

Bayonetta (PS3) - 29,120 copies (-78.96%)

Bayonetta (360) - 12,232 copies (-81.53%)

Bayonetta 1 + 2 (Wii U) - 9,284 copies (-71.96%)

...

Bayonetta (PS3 + 360) - 41,352 copies (-79.70%)





First week + Second week sales (Famitsu):

Bayonetta (PS3) - 167,550 copies

Bayonetta (360) - 78,443 copies

Bayonetta 1 + 2 (Wii U) - 42,398 copies

...

Bayonetta (PS3 + 360) - 245,993 copies

Never would have thought a Nintendo console doing worse than a Microsoft one in Japan.

 

[MrNyarlathotep]

I do not live in lala-land and I know that I need to make money.

That's why I left a former salaried job of the same kind to come to this new one.

Right, so the place Platinum is at is:
1) Make the games they want to make, be paid presumably the going rate to do so, not achieve mainstream success
2) Make games they do not want to make that achieve mainstream success and potentially big bucks (or not, because I can list dozens of titles that went straight for the mainstream USP checkbox approach and failed)

Why is it hard to believe they are relatively happy being at place 1?

 

[Xav]

I was under the impression that Japan had moved on to mobile gaming in more recent years.

I'm not defending those sales but does Japan play anything other than Monster Hunter these days?

 

[moltonasty]

I feel like the game still has potential to do okay. I mean, it's been established how Japan is mostly playing mobile these days.
Potentially NA and EU sales could be higher. Didn't the first one sell better in the US as well?

 

[TheTwelve]

That fact that he's arguing on NeoGAF while supposedly working shows how much interest he has in his parent company.

May he who has never posted on a forum during a very slow day at work throw the first cheap shot.

You realize that you're geeking out over sales and such more than some Platinum employees, right? Nintendo loses with this deal, not Platinum. Why have a fear mongering attitude with a product that was going to be niche to begin with?

I don't mind wanting the best for good artist and developers who deserve it. I also geek out over CD Projekt Red. I'm probably buying Witcher 3 three times. I don't care about Platinum as much as those guys but it's the principle of the thing.

I'm sure the people at Platinum aren't idiots. They evaluated the Bayonetta 2 situation and made a decision. Completely underestimating the intelligence of both game developers and publishers is way too common.

Yes, couch QBing is common and annoying but are you telling me that these sales numbers as revealed went totally according to the plans of Nintendo and Platinum?

 

[MormaPope]

Yes, couch QBing is common and annoying but are you telling me that these sales numbers as revealed went totally according to the plans of Nintendo and Platinum?

I'd actually say yes.

And to add to that, they're probably expecting North America/Europe to carry this title way more than Japan.

 

[TheTwelve]

Right, so the place Platinum is at is:
1) Make the games they want to make, be paid presumably the going rate to do so, not achieve mainstream success
2) Make games they do not want to make that achieve mainstream success and potentially big bucks (or not, because I can list dozens of titles that went straight for the mainstream USP checkbox approach and failed)

Why is it hard to believe they are relatively happy being at place 1?

It is hard for me to believe that all 200 people on staff at Platinum have this point of view, but looking at this old interview from Edge, seems you're right:

http://www.edge-online.com/news/ina...the-company-like-youre-in-danger-of-starving/

In particular this quote from Inaba: "But I do think an important thing for an independent developer like us is to be on the edge of starving. I mean, you run the company like you’re in danger of starving the whole time, and that’s the right way to do it"

This doesn't stop me from wishing them more commercial success, and being sad when it doesn't happen.

I'd actually say yes.

And to add to that, they're probably expecting North America/Europe to carry this title way more than Japan.

Fair enough, and I really, really hope you're right. I'll do my part.

 

[Sayter]

Never would have thought a Nintendo console doing worse than a Microsoft one in Japan.

I don't think Bayonetta 2 would've done any better on the PS4 or xbone. The WiiU is selling better in Japan than the other two. However, tradional gaming is all but gone in Japan now.

 

[shwimpy]

I want to know what Kamiya thinks about this.

Probably too busy working on his next bomba to care.

 

[Squishy3]

Never would have thought a Nintendo console doing worse than a Microsoft one in Japan.

The market is completely different than when Bayonetta 1 launched in Japan though. Console gaming has been on a decline for awhile in Japan. Handheld and mobile are the gangbusters in Japan right now, not consoles. Wii U still has about 300,000 more LTD than the 360 in Japan though, so it's not really doing "worse" considering it's been on the market for nearly 2 years compared to the 360 being on the market for nearly 9 years in Japan.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Does this justify all those ppl who said "this that other bomb"?

Probably too busy working on his next bomba to care.

ouch.jpg

 

[BodiesWithoutOrgans]

I did my part pre-ordered the Bayonetta 1 +2 on amazon

 

[Projectjustice]

The market is completely different than when Bayonetta 1 launched in Japan though. Console gaming has been on a decline for awhile in Japan. Handheld and mobile are the gangbusters in Japan right now, not consoles.Wii U still has about 300,000 more LTD than the 360 in Japan though, so it's not really doing "worse" considering it's been on the market for nearly 2 years compared to the 360 being on the market for nearly 9 years in Japan.

Everyone knows this is the case yet there are those making 1:1 ratio comparisons from Bayo 1 sales to Bayo 2 sales. Anyone with a clue knows there more to the story than just straight numbers. Nintendo and Platinum knows that most of their sales wont be coming from Japan. NA and Europe sales are the real deciding factors whether Bayo 2 is a real sales failure or not. I still see Bayo 2 selling over time in Japan though.

 

[megabytecr]

Japan changed and is changing a lot from when Bayo 1 released, but you know, people like to make comparisons and throw numbers around.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I think you guys suggesting that Platinum don't care about having a big hit, and are happy just getting contract work are crazy. Of course every company wants to be successful, both in the here and now, and because if they're making hit games it will increase their prospects for the future. It must be soul crushing to work on a game for 3+ years, have it be widely acclaimed and then sell a pitiful amount upon release.

Platinum aren't in danger anyway, maybe in terms of remaining independent. A publisher will have to pick them up at some point, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I wonder which publisher would be the best fit for them? Nintendo might be a good partnership, but TW101 was a horrible failure and it remains to be seen whether Bayonetta will do better worldwide. Sega, fuck no. Securing Platinum for a number of exclusives was an excellent decision on their part, but they've done a terrible job with the games and squandered all that good will. MS might be interesting, although we'll have to see how things go with Scalebound. MS are certainly capable of better marketing than Nintendo and Sega, and I expect Scalebound will be Platinum's most successful game when it launches. Sony are a curious one; I think they're far more interesting and forward thinking than MS/Ninty when it comes to exclusive software, but they're not heavily invested in Japanese developers so I don't know how that would fit into their strategy. Plus - y'know - being employed by Sony isn't such a good idea at the moment.

 

[Philippo]

People miss the point. Nintendo funded Bayo 1 and 2, W101, Devil´s Third and NGRE to build the library to attract certain gamers, they do it to make the Wii U a more enticing product, of course they want them to sell, but they know what they are funding and the risks, to me it is pretty clear this is just a strategy to make the Wii U library more attractive, it certainly is IMHO.

But if those gamers for which the library is being built for don't buy these games, isn't this a failure?

 

[Bladenic]

Probably too busy working on his next bomba to care.

I died at this

How long can Platinum get away with making flop after flop before everyone says "we're done funding your flops"

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I died at this

How long can Platinum get away with making flop after flop before everyone says "we're done funding your flops"

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be a MGR2 to break the flop streak.

 

[foxuzamaki]

You just proved my point? lmao




To be fair it was a terrible port. They made you waggle your dualshock 3 to recharge your sword. In what world is that a good idea?

You do know that jacking off your wiimote to recharge your battery is the point and one of the things people love about the series, fright?

 

[JPKellams]

Probably too busy working on his next bomba to care.

Great post. I've shared it with the company and we've decided to quit making games. Thanks for the support.

Edit: Still shaking my head at this thread. Some people love making games because they love making games. Especially if we can live comfortably doing it.

 

[Dicer]

Japan am disappoint...

 

[B.O.O.M]

You do know that jacking off your wiimote to recharge your battery is the point and one of the things people love about the series, fright?

The difference is in the shape

it's still dumb either way imo really but the shape makes a difference....

 

[impact]

You do know that jacking off your wiimote to recharge your battery is the point and one of the things people love about the series, fright?

How is that fun for anyone? lol

 

[Toparaman]

You have to admire Platinum's refusal to give a fuck. They just keeps making niche awesome action games.

Spoiler

As long as publishers pay for them.

 

[vicissitudes]

Consoles are dead in Japan. Sad truth

The days of console games selling well are long gone in Japan.

Yup. This, more than anything, is why the game bombed this hard. It's why the 360 version of Bayo 1 sold better than Bayo 2. The console gaming market has been sharply declining in Japan over the last few years. Mainly thanks to mobile games.

I feel like the game still has potential to do okay. I mean, it's been established how Japan is mostly playing mobile these days.
Potentially NA and EU sales could be higher. Didn't the first one sell better in the US as well?

I don't think Bayonetta 2 would've done any better on the PS4 or xbone. The WiiU is selling better in Japan than the other two. However, tradional gaming is all but gone in Japan now.

lol is this the new "2 days" excuse? Now Bayonetta 2 is doing badly because console games don't sell in Japan anymore, right?

Famitsu FW numbers:

[PS4] Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes <ADV> (Konami) {2014.03.20} (¥2.980) - 100.278
[PS4] Destiny # <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2014.09.11} (¥8.532) - 88.609
[PS4] Yakuza: Ishin! <ADV> (Sega) {2014.02.22} (¥8.600) - 73.086
[PS4] Watch Dogs <ADV> (Ubisoft) {2014.06.26} (¥9.072) - 65.630
[PS4] Infamous: Second Son <ACT> (Sony Computer Entertainment) {2014.05.22} (¥7.452) - 39.757
[WIU] Bayonetta 2 <ACT> (Nintendo) {2014.09.20} (¥8.316) - 33.114

I mean, it's getting outsold 2-3x by western shooters and $30 demos, on a platform that's currently 1/3 the size.

Bayonetta 2 is not selling because 1. it's not that big of a franchise and 2. the Bayonetta audience is not on the Wii U. That's it.

 

[SwiftDeath]

The market is completely different than when Bayonetta 1 launched in Japan though. Console gaming has been on a decline for awhile in Japan. Handheld and mobile are the gangbusters in Japan right now, not consoles. Wii U still has about 300,000 more LTD than the 360 in Japan though, so it's not really doing "worse" considering it's been on the market for nearly 2 years compared to the 360 being on the market for nearly 9 years in Japan.

Everyone knows this is the case yet there are those making 1:1 ratio comparisons from Bayo 1 sales to Bayo 2 sales. Anyone with a clue knows there more to the story than just straight numbers. Nintendo and Platinum knows that most of their sales wont be coming from Japan. NA and Europe sales are the real deciding factors whether Bayo 2 is a real sales failure or not. I still see Bayo 2 selling over time in Japan though.

Japan changed and is changing a lot from when Bayo 1 released, but you know, people like to make comparisons and throw numbers around.

I cannot believe after the whole "But it's only 2 days instead of 4" argument was shown to be entirely faulty logic and an illogical stance to take, we are still getting "But the Japanese market is different now. Consoles are dead"

Bayonetta 1 Attach Rates

PS3 [FW] attach rate = 138/3738 = 3.7%
PS3 [LTD] attach rate = 206/6011 = 3.4%

360 [FW] attach rate = 66/1155 = 5.7%
360 [LTD] attach rate = 112/1417 = 7.9%

This is relative to the install base of the system at the time, how many owners showed up and bought the game

Bayonetta 2 Attach Rates

WIU [FW] attach rate = 39/1911 = 2.04%

Wii U has 750k [40%] more of an install base then the 360 did in 2009 at the time of Bayonetta 1 and manged to sell half as much. The Wii U demographic clearly either knows not of the game or does and chooses not to buy it. That's the truth of the matter

Arguing that the console market has changed because of smartphones/mobile and that is why Bayonetta 2 is selling poorly relative to Bayonetta 1 is arguing that those individuals who bought Bayonetta 1, a niche core game, are more likely to leave console gaming for smartphone/mobile than the rest of the demographics. That makes no sense

 

[SmokedMeat]

People miss the point. Nintendo funded Bayo 1 and 2, W101, Devil´s Third and NGRE to build the library to attract certain gamers, they do it to make the Wii U a more enticing product, of course they want them to sell, but they know what they are funding and the risks, to me it is pretty clear this is just a strategy to make the Wii U library more attractive, it certainly is IMHO.

The funny thing is there would be complaining if Nintendo wasn't getting these kinds of games for their system. Then when they put the money out to add them to the U's library there's complaining about that.

 

[Mariolee]

The funny thing is there would be complaining if Nintendo wasn't getting these kinds of games for their system. Then when they put the money out to add them to the U's library there's complaining about that.

People will complain about anything. That's what makes them people. Hell, people are complaining about the FREE towel that comes when you purchase SSB4 on Thursday.

 

[Pro from Dover]

People will complain about anything. That's what makes them people. Hell, people are complaining about the FREE towel that comes when you purchase SSB4 on Thursday.

That free towel is bullshit. Terry cloth with low GSM, linear use, and lacks agency.
Make that some Egyptian cotton free towels and you got a deal, but Nintendo doesn't want my money.

 

[lyrick]

lol is this the new "2 days" excuse? Now Bayonetta 2 is doing badly because console games don't sell in Japan anymore, right?



I mean, it's getting outsold 2-3x by western shooters and $30 demos, on a platform that's currently 1/3 the size.

Bayonetta 2 is not selling because 1. it's not that big of a franchise and 2. the Bayonetta audience is not on the Wii U. That's it.

Dig out the Hardware Numbers and Compare them. Then try telling us how healthy the Console industry in Japan is currently.

HARDWARE Week 44 2009 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=18358719&postcount=1

 _________________________________________________________________
|System |  This Week  |  Last Week  |        YTD  |         LTD  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |     64,020  |     32,865  |  1,736,523  |  13,094,626  |
|  NDS  |     44,419  |     48,749  |  3,000,211  |  28,119,846  |
|  PS3  |     36,061  |     29,977  |  1,115,326  |   3,737,794  |
|  WII  |     28,888  |     25,917  |  1,174,779  |   8,653,756  |
|  360  |      6,047  |      4,470  |    325,370  |   1,154,807  |
|  PS2  |      1,966  |      1,951  |    186,978  |  21,586,507  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  DSi  |     37,517  |     42,199  |  2,545,835  |   3,777,194  |
|  DSL  |      6,902  |      6,550  |    454,376  |  17,757,181  |
------------------------------------------------------------------
|  PSP  |     34,911  |     32,865  |  1,707,414  |  13,065,517  |
| PSPgo |     29,109  |             |     29,109  |      29,109  |
------------------------------------------------------------------

The Industry looks a little different today.

HARDWARE Week 38 2014 http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=131451053&postcount=1

 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|System | This Week  | Last Week  | Last Year  |     YTD    |  Last YTD  |     LTD     |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| 3DS # |     43.592 |     39.569 |    159.388 |  1.547.486 |  2.972.851 |  16.209.406 |
| PSV # |     11.857 |     13.148 |      5.155 |    898.051 |    704.067 |   3.253.408 |
|  PS4  |      8.939 |     23.623 |            |    718.046 |            |     718.046 |
|  WIU  |      8.396 |      7.062 |      5.824 |    404.857 |    451.439 |   1.930.287 |
|  PS3  |      6.078 |      6.083 |     10.749 |    372.912 |    628.759 |  10.082.586 |
|  XB1  |      1.314 |      3.015 |            |     30.003 |            |      30.003 |
|  360  |        103 |         96 |        610 |      8.293 |     19.035 |   1.647.609 |
| PSP # |         99 |        101 |      5.082 |     97.137 |    368.648 |  20.165.546 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|  ALL  |     80.378 |     92.697 |    187.773 |  4.076.785 |  5.204.841 |  54.036.891 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| PSVTV |        709 |        817 |            |     61.918 |            |     138.162 |
|  PSV  |     11.148 |     12.331 |      5.155 |    836.133 |    704.067 |   3.115.246 |
| 3DSLL |     35.622 |     31.602 |    118.400 |  1.171.299 |  2.017.822 |   6.597.185 |
|  3DS  |      7.970 |      7.967 |     40.988 |    376.187 |    955.029 |   9.612.221 |
|  PSP  |         99 |        101 |      5.082 |     97.137 |    368.648 |  19.989.559 |
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[friskykillface]

People will complain about anything. That's what makes them people. Hell, people are complaining about the FREE towel that comes when you purchase SSB4 on Thursday.

0_o where are they giving towels? Nintendo world store?

 

[Innolis]

He...I was thinking this is one of the few Lose/Lose situations where something positive actually comes out of....

At least the game happened, which for some is a miracle all of its own.

 

[SwiftDeath]

Dig out the Hardware Numbers and Compare them. Then try telling us how healthy the Console industry in Japan is currently.

Literally 4 posts up from yours. Yes the console industry in Japan is a shadow of its former-self but the comparison is between the 360 in 2009 and the Wii U in 2014. That comparison favors Wii U's by a 750k [40%] increased install base. Trying to argue that Bayonetta 2's poor sales is simply due to Wii U's install base when the comparison is being made to the 360 which had a notably lower install base is illogical

 

[lyrick]

Literally 4 posts up from yours. Yes the console industry in Japan is a shadow of its former-self but the comparison is between the 360 in 2009 and the Wii U in 2014. That comparison favors Wii U's by a 750k [40%] increased install base. Trying to argue that Bayonetta 2's poor sales is simply due to Wii U's install base when the comparison is being made to the 360 which had a notably lower install base is illogical

Taking snapshots of life to date figures doesn't make much sense. All it does is serve as an upper limit for the total possible sales a product could Theoretically achieve. It's why when GTAV sells 30-40M units we don't call it a failure compared to Wii Sports.Or more directly why when Destiny or Watchdogs sells 6M compared to GTA's 30M+ we don't see them as failures.

If you look at the weekly, less people are buying hardware and have been all year.

We're looking at a difference of 100K Hardware units between the two weeks.

Comparing week 38 2009 to week 38 2014 Hardware LTDs and we see a Hardware difference of almost 2.5 Million Less in 2014.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17750243&postcount=1

Actually limiting it to home Console Hardware also paints a Grimm picture.
2.8M YTD W38 2009 {PS3,Wii,360,PS2} vs 1.5M YTD W38 2014 {PS4, PS3, WiiU, XB1, X360}
That's over a 46% difference.

 

[theprodigy]

Taking snapshots of life to date figures doesn't make much sense. All it does is serve as an upper limit for the total possible sales a product could Theoretically achieve.

If you look at the weekly, less people are buying hardware and have been all year.

Were looking at a difference of 100K Hardware units between the two weeks.

Comparing week 38 2009 to week 38 2014 Hardware LTDs and we're looking at a Hardware difference of almost 2.5 Million.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17750243&postcount=1

the Wii U in 2014 is still outselling the 360 in 2009 significantly

although it does surprise me how close 360 is in that week to Wii U's most recent week