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Bayonetta Demo Impressions Thread of the Evolution of Action Games

K' Dash

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This thread is not meant to ask for dummy accounts, if you want to ask for the account details go to:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=375740

Now, I'm doing this thread so we can post our opinions about the demo and leave the other just for people asking for the 360 dummy accounts, since english is not my first language I'm posting the best analysis I read on the other thread as the opening post.

Monocle said:
Okay, I just spent half an hour playing through the tutorial and the Vestibule (falling clock tower stage). Now I'm in the first room of the city. I've been playing around with the combat system up to this moment, and I have to tell you, I'm completely floored. The variety and responsiveness is like nothing I've experienced in an action game. I can say right now that with this game Kamiya has taken a massive leap toward perfecting the genre he created with the original Devil May Cry. Some miscellaneous observations:

- Nearly every move can be jump canceled as in DMC, but Bayonetta does one better: in many cases, the jump comes out without canceling the attack. Serious advanced applications here, but to state it simply, the ability to evade and attack simultaneously means that your offensive momentum doesn't have to stop for anything. Bayonetta's combat system is unparalleled in its fluidity.

- Bayonetta has a wall jump that can be performed before or after her butterfly wing jump. This means that if you're near a wall you can squeeze in two jump cancels without touching the ground or seeing even a second of recovery animation.

- All the text I've come across is in English. Nice. (I'm playing the 360 version.) And speaking of text, there are tons of places in the background that can be checked for text descriptions like those in the original Devil May Cry. I love details like this.

- Bayonetta can perform her dodge in the air, which everyone already knows from various gameplay videos. What I hadn't heard reported is that she can do more than one—as many as you want, in fact, until she touches the ground.

- Speaking of the dodge, the only move I've found that it won't immediately cancel is the falling aerial kick. Everything else, even the huge motherfucking chargeable sword slash of doom, can be halted immediately at the touch of the dodge button.

- The aforementioned aerial sword slash can be charged indefinitely, allowing Bayonetta to remain suspended in the air until a hapless enemy wanders underneath her blade. Naturally, while suspended you can freely change the direction you're facing.

- The 360 degree rapid fire mode is freely cancelable into nearly anything else, just as I was led to believe from a clip I saw last month. You can even go from hands 360 mode to feet 360 mode (not vice versa, though).

- Almost every move can be charged. Besides conferring the obvious advantage of extra damage, this offers the secondary benefit of letting you tweak the timing of most any combo. This has some important applications, one being you don't have to worry about missing the strongest hits of your attack strings; just delay the first one or two hits prior until your targeted enemy comes into range, then pummel it with the big hit.

- Touching the ground in the middle of many air combos will not halt them. Bayonetta will finish them without skipping a beat, unless you want her to start a different combo, in which case all you need to do is hold the gun button for half a second.

- The closest comparison to Bayonetta's combat is that of the original Devil May Cry. The inputs function in much the same way, involving rhythmic taps as much as momentary delays between inputs to initiate different combo branches. Gameplay is also similar in the way you can cancel out of most attack animations with a jump. The main difference is the responsiveness: Bayonetta moves lighting fast. With very few exceptions, you have complete control over her even during the times you'd expect a recovery delay.

The is the action game of the generation, folks. If you're a fan of the genre, pick up Bayonetta on day one, no excuses. If you don't understand what's so great about the combat, play a few different action games then return to the demo. PlatinumGames deserves all the support it can get for this brilliant title.
Discuss!

Edit: Move List so far posted by Monocle:

Monocle said:
Move List (From the loading screen lists and my own experimentation.)

Key

P = punch
K = kick
. =delay
< = press direction away from opponent
> = press direction toward opponent
(lock) = while locked on
(air) = while in the air
(ground) = while standing on the ground
360 = rotate the left analog stick in a full circle
[ ] = hold the buttons or directions that appear in these brackets
+ = press the buttons or directions on both sides of this sign at the same time
... = tap the preceding button rapidly

Scarborough Fair

PKP
P.P
P.K
PPKP
PPKKK
PPKK.P
PPKK.K
PPK.K
PP.P
PP.K
PPPKKK
PPPKP
PPPKK.P
PPP.P
PPP.K
PPPPK
PPPPP
PPPPPK
PPPP.P
KKK
KK.P
K.P
360P
360K
(lock) <P
(lock) <K
(air) PPKP
(air) PPPKP
(air) PPPKKK
(air) PPP.K
(air) PPPPK
(air) PPPPP
(air) PPPPPK
(air) K
(air) 360P
(air) 360K
(air) (lock) <+P
(air) (lock) <+K
>>+P
(air) >>+P -or- (air) (lock)>+P
>>+K -or- (lock) >+K

Scarborough Fair Unlisted Moves

(lock)+any direction (Alternate dodge input.)
(after PPPKK, on grounded enemy) PPP... (Repeatedly slap grounded enemy.)
(on grounded enemy] KKK... (Repeatedly stomp grounded enemy.)
(after (lock) <+P) PPP... (Hold enemy by foots and repeatedly slam it on the ground.)

Katana + Shotguns

PKP
P.P
P.K
PPKP
PPKKK
PPKK.P
PPKK.K
PPK.K
PP.PPP
PP.PP.P
PP.P.P
PP.K
PPPKKK
PPPKP
PPPKK.P
PPP.P
PPP.K
PPPPK
PPPPP
PPPPPK
PPPP.P
KKK
KK.P
K.P
360P
360K
(lock) <+P
(lock) <+K
(air) PPKP
(air) PP.PPP
(air) PPPKP
(air) PPPKKK
(air) PPP.P
(air) PPP.K
(air) PPPPK
(air) PPPPP
(air) PPPPPK
(air) K
(air) 360P
(air) 360K
(air) (lock) <+P
(air) (lock) <+K
>>+P
(air) >>+P -or- (air) (lock) >+P
>>+K -or- (lock)>+K

Katana + Shotguns Unlisted Moves

(lock)+any direction (Alternate dodge input.)
stand still, hold (lock) until first or second spark, P (This is impossibly cool, everyone try it now!)
(air) PPK(ground)KK
(air) PPK(ground)K.K
(air) [P] (This is the infinitely chargeable aerial sword slash.)

Torture Attacks

(in front of enemy) Y+B (Iron maiden.)
(behind enemy) Y+B (Guillotine.)
(above enemy) Y+B (Chain.)
(on downed enemy) Y+B (Gravestone.)

Text (360 version)

Selecting Difficulty

Very Easy Automatic: This option is not available in this demo.
Easy Automatic: A mode aimed at beginners, where simply pressing Y will allow you to jump into the heat of battle and execute a variety of techniques.
Normal: Execute complete control over Bayonetta's techniques in a mode for those ready to enter truly climactic battles!

Tutorial Screen

Regular Controls

Left Stick = Move
Right Stick = Move Camera—Press RS to reset camera.
D-Pad = Use Items—Hold a directional pad (sic) to use.
X = Action
Y = Punch
B = Kick
A = Jump
Left Bumper = Taunt
Left Trigger = Change Weapon
Right Bumper = Lock-On
Right Trigger = Evade
Start = Pause Menu
Back = Help

Torture Attacks

Attack enemies to fill your Magic Gauge! If you take damage your Magic Gauge will decrease! Close in on enemies and finish them off with deadly Torture Attacks!

Tutorial

Punch: For a quick punch press Y.
Kick: For a powerful kick press B.
Combo: Combine Y and B to unleash countless combos!
Evade: Evade any situation by using the RT to dodge!
Witch Time: Dodge at the last possible instant to activate Witch Time! (Enemies will appear to move in slow-motion for a set period of time.)
Shoot: Shoot your way out of a combo by holding Y or B!
Bullet Climax: Rotate the LS and press Y or B to fire all around! (Step 1: Activate Bullet Climax! Step 2: Once activated, aim and fire at will!)

More Observations and Things (Some of this info has already been mentioned. I'm including it because the purpose of this post is to collate a bunch of good stuff for easy reference.)

- Tap a direction on the d-pad to see which items you have. Hold a direction to use the corresponding item. (I listed this in the controls section, but lots of people seem to miss this feature so I want to point it out here)

- On the mission complete screen, you may notice a missing medal. To find the hidden verse that awards it,
return to the area where you start the city level after you've cleared the courtyard battle. A pack of enemies will spawn in the first room.

- One thing that's guaranteed to annoy me in a game is a laggy menu. Ninja Gaiden is a notable offender here. In contrast, Bayonetta's menus, much like its in-game controls, respond crisply to any input. Kamiya's games have all had great menus, and Bayonetta is no exception.

- All breakable objects and items respawn if you leave an area. This includes the treasure chest on the right side of the courtyard in the city. You can exploit this to collect extra halos and magic-restoring items.

- Magic-restoring items drop much more frequently when Bayonetta is damaged. I destroyed a group of pots with about 1/10 of a health bar and got 5 purple butterflies.

- Bayonetta can target multiple enemies with her guns during combo extensions (just hold an attack button mid-combo). This is ridiculously effective with the second weapon set when she's standing in the middle of an enemy group. Her shotguns will slaughter everything.

- Enemy-dropped weapons won't weaken if used on breakable objects. (Exceptions: the trumpet, the halberd's spinning pole move.)

- Enemy jump is in, and it works just like in Devil May Cry, except the timing is far easier. (For those who don't know how to perform it: while airborne and next to or above an enemy, press jump.)

More later.


Try jump canceling a stinger ((lock) >+Y). If you time the jump right, its momentum will carry Bayonetta upward as she attacks.
 

AceBandage

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I loved the PS3 demo.
Can't wait to buy it.
Any game where a giant demon dragon is created from your hair is a must buy.
 

Llyranor

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Those impressions are really good. The responsiveness sounds especially good, since I did find that DMC4 (only DMC I've played :0 ) was a bit sluggish at times.

PS3 demo is installed and all that, but I won't get to play it until this evening.

Since it's in Japanese, can someone explain the basic controls while we're at it?
 

Volcynika

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Wasn't able to finish downloading the PS3 demo before I went to sleep, but will hopefully start it up shortly after I get home :D

Liking the impressions so far.

I hate mentioning this, but I still have no idea if PS3 one will be region locked, since these impressions make me want to import it
 
AceBandage said:
I loved the PS3 demo.
Can't wait to buy it.
Any game where a giant demon dragon is created from your hair is a must buy.
Agree completely :) Non-stop action, a nice combat system, a hot chick and nice music means that this is a must buy for me. Was before the demo and is moreso now. My only problem is deciding whether to buy the PS3 or 360 version.
 

Nemesis_

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Any word on how the 360 demo will work? I just downloaded it from a Silver accout on the JP marketplace.....makes me wonder if Microsoft are leading me into some horrible corruption trap U_U
 

AceBandage

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Llyranor said:
Those impressions are really good. The responsiveness sounds especially good, since I did find that DMC4 (only DMC I've played :0 ) was a bit sluggish at times.

PS3 demo is installed and all that, but I won't get to play it until this evening.

Since it's in Japanese, can someone explain the basic controls while we're at it?

Much of the game is in English, outside of details.
Just play the Tutorial, and follow the button icons.
It's easy to learn.

JustAnotherOtaku said:
Agree completely :) Non-stop action, a nice combat system, a hot chick and nice music means that this is a must buy for me. Was before the demo and is moreso now. My only problem is deciding whether to buy the PS3 or 360 version.
Well, the 360 version supposedly runs a lot better, but we'll have to see when it comes to the final release.
 

Peff

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I loved it. The game is really intense and tough even in normal (ok, it's a bit cheap because most enemies' hit stun animations are very hard to get but considering Bayonetta's range of movement it'd be too easy otherwise), there are plenty of combos and attacks and picking up enemy weapons is a pretty cool touch which adds to the variety. It also looks nice and very smooth (360 here). It may be a bit hard to know what's happening at the beginning because of all the shit going on at once (no surprise that level isn't in the PS3 demo :lol ) but once you get the hang of it and use the dodge properly it's really, really engrossing. Day 1, of course :D
 

Sectus

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My impressions!

+Awesome animations
+Awesome music
+Nonsensical story which makes so little sense it's awesome
+Trumpets which shoots fireballs
+Defense mechanics based on dodging
-Overwhelming movelist
-Being able to get by only using the basic but powerful Y->B->Y combo and dodging
-Poor technical performance (give me PC version plz :<)

I'm a huge fan of DMC4, and I still prefer that combat system in that overall. On the other hand, this is still so much more fun than games like Ninja Gaiden and God of War. In my opinion.
 

K' Dash

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AceBandage said:
Much of the game is in English, outside of details.
Just play the Tutorial, and follow the button icons.
It's easy to learn.



Well, the 360 version supposedly runs a lot better, but we'll have to see when it comes to the final release.
I played both versions and the non stop action is there on both, true 360 version runs better, but this doesn't mean the PS3 unplayable, that's hyperbole at it's finest.
 

jett

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I'm still trying to get the hang of the mechanics here, see if I'm missing anything. It's definitely different than DMC4 and Ninja Gaiden. It DOES feel like some sort of amalgam of Viewtiful Joe and DMC1...except with dial-a-combos and no freeform fighting of any kind. The way the timing works feels a little strange to me, the moves lag/buffer for too long. It's actually kind of slow paced compared to DMC4 and NGS2.

K' Dash said:
I played both versions and the non stop action is there on both, true 360 version runs better, but this doesn't mean the PS3 unplayable, that's hyperbole at it's finest.
It's not unplayable, but it's pretty terrible. It never reaches 60fps, it hovers around 30fps most of the time, and that's with like only 3 enemies on screen. Screen tearing-sensitive people WILL find it unplayable though. :p
 

Castor Krieg

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I don't have Gold so I will wait a week to try X360, I played PS3 and found it incredible, then I checked the clip from X360 version... No wonder multiplats sell better on X360 if the ports are so bad.
 

RuGalz

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The game is as good as I remembered from E3 (GOTS for me, not counting Uncharted 2). It's like this strange combination of crazy, over the top DMC + pure awesomeness of Viewtiful Joe dressed in abundance of sexiness.

I didn't like how it performs on the PS3 and no longer owns a 360, so I'm going to have to see if I can borrow a 360 some where; or even better if Sega can fix the issues for NA. Can't freaking wait!
 

Coin Return

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Wow, this game is awesome, I love how you can charge pretty much every attack. Finally a new Japanese game I'm interested in.
 

Daante

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Well the quote in the first post put my hype meter above maximum (however that is possible)!! :p
 

Suairyu

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Played and enjoyed the PS3 demo. I really don't see this as any "evolution" of the genre, but it has more style than any other entry I've seen on current gen consoles. There are some genuine problems with how the game portrays women, the 'get naked to attack' aesthetic makes me uncomfortable, but given how over-the-top the game is I might just be able to enjoy it regardless.

Question: is this likely to get a PC port down the line? The framerate was atrocious in the PS3 demo, other impressions tell me the 360 is improved but still flawed.
 

jett

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I don't see the "evolution" here either, but whatever. Unless "evolution" now means stepping back to an eight year-old game. The more I play this the more it feels like DMC1.
 

Danne-Danger

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Suairyu said:
Question: is this likely to get a PC port down the line? The framerate was atrocious in the PS3 demo, other impressions tell me the 360 is improved but still flawed.
Since this isn't Capcom I wouldn't bet on it. But who knows. I really, really want to see it on PC though that's for sure. :p
 

Fersis

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Bayonetta must be the game with most threads at GAF.
 

Nemesis_

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WAIT!!!!! The 360 demo doesn't have the Jeane battle?! =(

Oh well. I hate switching between consoles to get the best of both worlds. =P

Still, it's astonishing how far ahead the 360 version is - just so much more smoother.
 

K' Dash

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jett said:
I don't see the "evolution" here either, but whatever. Unless "evolution" now means stepping back to an eight year-old game. The more I play this the more it feels like DMC1.
jett
Mr. Negativity
(Today, 02:14 PM)
Reply | Quote

Did you read the OP?
 

Shurs

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Nemesis556 said:
WAIT!!!!! The 360 demo doesn't have the Jeane battle?! =(

Oh well. I hate switching between consoles to get the best of both worlds. =P

Still, it's astonishing how far ahead the 360 version is - just so much more smoother.

Any other thoughts on the differences between the two versions, other than frame rate?
 

Ninja Kn1ght

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Evolution is probably the best way to describe it. It feels like Kamiya has taken the mechanics he's been developing since the original DMC and tweaked and refined them to the point where they're as fluid and natural as they've ever been. It's not a revolution, you can still clearly see the ancestry of DMC, Viewtiful Joe and his other action games but it may be the best refinement yet of those mechanics. Which sounds pretty awesome to me.

What really struck me between the two version, moreso even than the framerate, was how much clearer and sharper the 360 version is compared to the dark and muddied PS3 version.
 

badcrumble

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Excellent and fun combat. I really like that there is a fair mix of beginning, middle, and end moves, and many paths between them - I hope that as I get to know the game better there'll be a clear overriding logic to the way that all works, but as it is, it reminds me of a cross between DMC and God of War - it's not quite dial-a-combo so much as it's a branching combo system with start, middle, and finisher attacks, and some quicker ways to get to the finisher you're looking for, and lots of well-balanced cancelling.

Definitely hoping the technical issues on the PS3 side get ironed out because even though it's quite playable the 360 version looks far, far better right now, and I'd rather play this with the Dual Shock especially now that I know that one of the shoulder buttons is for dodging.
 

K' Dash

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Ninja Kn1ght said:
Evolution is probably the best way to describe it. It feels like Kamiya has taken the mechanics he's been developing since the original DMC and tweaked and refined them to the point where they're as fluid and natural as they've ever been. It's not a revolution, you can still clearly see the ancestry of DMC, Viewtiful Joe and his other action games but it may be the best refinement yet of those mechanics. Which sounds pretty awesome to me.

What really struck me between the two version, moreso even than the framerate, was how much clearer and sharper the 360 version is compared to the dark and muddied PS3 version.
Years of experience have lead to this, I agree with you that it's a combined and refined experince of Kamiya's games, to me it feels like Viewtiful Joe and DMC fused together and refined to the max.
 

Violater

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I can tell the game is great, but the shit is looking so muddy on my screen that it looses some of the awesome.
There are some parts where the camera moves in that looks great, and others when there is just so much going on that it just makes me have to squint my eyes to make out whats happening. :(
 

yurinka

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Played the PSN demo and loved it. I had some doubts about the game (too DMC4ish, poor technically, really bad PS3 port), but now is a day 1 purchase for me:

+ Gameplay is awesome. Unlike I was expecting, IMO better than DMC, NG and GOW. Tons of moves and combos, really easy to play and perform almost every move/combo. Feels really smooth / oldschool. It's like comparing SFIV gameplay vs other 3D fighters gameplay.
+ Attack animations and movements. A lot of types, some of them really original, like this special attack where you have the camera over the shoulder like in a 3rd person action game and you rotate the camera while shooting enemies.
+ Crazy oniric bizarre awesomeness.
+ Full of adrenaline and thrill.
+ Music is great.
+ The PS3 demo performs better than I expected.
+ Some really BIG final bosses, and you don't fight versus them in a stable floor.
+ Fighting while walking on walls and ceiling in a boss fight.
+ The architecture of the park reminds me Parc Güell, a park from my city made by Antoni Gaudi (he also did Sagrada Familia).
+ Difficulty in normal is normal/easy, not uberdifficult like in other games of the genre.
- Technically looks a bit worst than DMC4, NGS2 and GoW3.
- Some enemy designs looks like too DMC4ish.
- Some tearing and framerate sucking, even the overall level is decent. Let's hope the final version fixes it.
- Demo too short, I want more :D
- You collect Sonic's rings when killing enemies.
- The overall sepia tone doesn't look very well, I think has been applied too hard.
 

EscapingJail

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Holy shit I just found a crazy new attack.

Take out sword, Stand still, hold lock on button for like two seconds, wait for her to do crazy "Chargin Mah Lazer" animation, hit Triangle or Y
 

viewtiful_dru

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Yes, the 360 demo runs much smoother and looks nicer. But, you can't fight Jeane. I guess they had to add something so the PS3 owners don't get shafted badly when trying out the game.

But yes, it is an evolution of the previous games. Input and move cancellability stem from DMC, and the witch time mechanic is the dodge and slow vfx from VJ.

I need this game.
 
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yurinka said:
Played the PSN demo and loved it:

+ Gameplay is awesome. Unlike I was expecting, IMO better than DMC, NG and DMC. Tons of moves and combos, really easy to play and perform almost every move/combo.
+ Attack animations and movements. A lot of types, some of them really original, like this special attack where you have the camera over the shoulder like in a 3rd person action game and you rotate the camera while shooting enemies.
+ Crazy oniric bizarre awesomeness.
+ Full of adrenaline and thrill.
+ Music is great.
+ The PS3 demo performs better than I expected.
+ The architecture of the park reminds me Parc Güell, a park from my city made by Antoni Gaudi (he also did Sagrada Familia).
- Technically looks a bit worst than DMC4, NGS2 and GoW3.
- Some tearing and framerate sucking, even the overall level is decent. Let's hope the final version fixes it.
- Demo too short, I want more :D
- The overall sepia tone doesn't look very well, I think has been applied too hard.
Better than DMC twice?! It's good but not that good. :p
 

brandonh83

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It's awesome. Very awesome. It's nowhere near DMC awesome to me, but I've just played the demo.
 

Drame

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Just completed the PS3 demo and what can I say? Action game of forever!

I absolutely love the combat. The amount of different combos you can do, or link to is staggering. I haven't felt this excited since DMC.

I really hope they're not region locking the PS3 version, if that is even possible.

Hopefully, the technical problems will be ironed for the western release, I'll be double dipping this for sure.
 

Rekwest

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Nemesis556 said:
Any word on how the 360 demo will work? I just downloaded it from a Silver accout on the JP marketplace.....makes me wonder if Microsoft are leading me into some horrible corruption trap U_U
Castor Krieg said:
I don't have Gold so I will wait a week to try X360, I played PS3 and found it incredible, then I checked the clip from X360 version... No wonder multiplats sell better on X360 if the ports are so bad.
What??
 

Morph-0

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Really liking this game but the demo seems a little too easy, evade window maybe too large although its hard to know until I've played tougher sections in the final game. Witch time also seems too easy to get into but again the timing will vary from enemy to enemy so we'll see.

Love the variety in your arsenal, pickup weapons and switch in real time. Nice slightly Castlevania-ish style music. Graphics are quite pleasant very much in line with DMC4 - hard to expect any more @ 60fps. Put simply this is over the top action at its best. Different to NG's & GOW's more calculated approach to combat this is a wild, looser and more playful game.

Oh and do your self a favour and increase the speed of the camera in the options for such a fast moving game I wonder why 3-4 notches up wasn't the default.