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[Llyranor]

I hope so, as it means they're not homophobic. Though I do have a faking offence loophole.

And if I get banned, it makes it easier to argue that the TOS/COC is unfair.

However, I like my account.

Again, though, it's all in the wording, so it may not just simply be as black and white as the article seems to make it out to be.

For example, if the guy in that other backfire thread had it his way, he'd have gotten banned for "voicing his dislike of stores not breaking their street date in a poetic fashion", rather than being so for "voicing thoughts - if only passive - of murdering a store clerk for 'taunting' ". There's a little big difference.

I mean, there are many different ways in which you express your preference for your own or opposite gender.

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

ms doesnt have to explain anything, it's in their TOS and they did nothing wrong, just because the internets are all flustered because people want to read more into this then there really is doesnt mean they owe anyone anything

 

[JonathanEx]

ms doesnt have to explain anything, it's in their TOS and they did nothing wrong, just because the internets are all flustered because people want to read more into this then there really is doesnt mean they owe anyone anything

Terms of Service have been broken? Sure.
Terms of Service themselves are broken? Another issue entirely.

As someone said above, all in the wording, clarification is needed.

 

[HokieJoe]

sexual abstinence is exclusive to heterosexual relationships...?

The issue of "sex" is not age appropriate for many who use the service.

 

[lucablight]

wow

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

pc? :lol Have you seen my posts in the Offtopic forum? No I'm not pc, I'm genuinely pissed off. I'm sick and tired of homophobes or idiots who think that being gay is somehow offensive.

I want the pricks responsible for this mess fired.

fired for what? what did they do? nothing wrong that's for sure

 

[Flynn]

From the Twitter-masses:

zenhob
Updating my Xbox Live profile to say "I'm a lesbian." Fuck Microsoft, let them ban us all

pimpbaa
Saying you are a lesbian on xbox live can get you banned?! WTF?!

larenceswiader
Identifying Yourself As A Lesbian Gets You Banned On XBOX Live. What? Are they serious? Sad.

LGBTtweets
queerunity: XBOX Live Bans Words 'Gay' and 'Lesbian': There have been a number of reports that Microsoft is bann..

sparkatito
A Lesbian was harrassed and kicked off Xbox Live for identifying herself as such in her profile

ainimerion
Quite a shitstorm happening on Kotaku tonight about a lesbian gamer who got banned from Xbox Live


If MS PR don't try and explain it and give a slightly reasonable 'reason', this could explode in to a PR disaster.

I see you hashing it out there with @stepto.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

ms doesnt have to explain anything, it's in their TOS and they did nothing wrong, just because the internets are all flustered because people want to read more into this then there really is doesnt mean they owe anyone anything

While I concede it's entirely possible that there's something missing that would tie this all together, and that it probably doesn't merit the attention that it's getting unless it really is as bad as it sounds, your defense is terrible.

First of all, just because it's in their TOS doesn't make it legal. Second of all, even if it is, it doesn't mean that it bad publicity concerning a dubious policy can't hurt their subscription numbers. So, unless there is a missing piece of the puzzle that clarifies the issue, if the story spreads, you better be damn sure that MS WILL explain themselves and fire whoever was responsible.

 

[JonathanEx]

I see you hashing it out there with @stepto.

It was great fun. I've been a complete arse, but it was fun.

You know what I need? Sleep. But hey, at least I actually registered my distaste.

 

[shintoki]

So has this even been proven real yet? I'm still looking through for a game tag atleast :lol

 

[Flynn]

The issue of "sex" is not age appropriate for many who use the service.

:lol They should probably be taught to hate their own genitals. At least until they're eighteen.

 

[JonathanEx]

So has this even been proven real yet? I'm still looking through for a game tag atleast :lol

Well, the head of the banhammer team has commented on the story.

:lol They should probably be taught to hate their own genitals. At least until they're eighteen.

Hi Freud, how are you?
Side thought: young children tend to be more accepting than adults.

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

As someone said above, all in the wording, clarification is needed.

why does it need to be clarified any better then it is, because we may offend some person who really doesnt think the rules should apply to them?

 

[sprocket]

all im saying is she one in how many thousand gay gamers on xbl? she must have done something to warrant it. its not like there is a mass gay explosion.

 

[JonathanEx]

why does it need to be clarified any better then it is, because we may offend some person who really doesnt think the rules should apply to them?

Context. Is mentioning the words "lesbian" "homosexual" "gay" "hetrosexual" or "straight" grounds for ban? Just having it there? Or did the user write something which was a bigger deal involving that?

The thing that ticks me is that it's thrown in with stuff as being "offensive".

 

[fortified_concept]

fired for what? what did they do? nothing wrong that's for sure

Exactly! They just banned someone because she identified herself as gay. What's wrong with that?

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Steam doesn't give a shit.

Yep



Steam Superior, Live Inferior

 

[shintoki]

Well, the head of the banhammer team has commented on the story.

Where at? I'm still only seeing stuff about the having Gay in the gamertag.

 

[TheExodu5]

Steam doesn't give a shit.

Report it and see what happens.

 

[HallucinatingElvis]

While I concede it's entirely possible that there's something missing that would tie this all together, and that it probably doesn't merit the attention that it's getting unless it really is as bad as it sounds, your defense is terrible.

First of all, just because it's in their TOS doesn't make it legal. Second of all, even if it is, it doesn't mean that it bad publicity concerning a dubious policy can't hurt their subscription numbers. So, unless there is a missing piece of the puzzle that clarifies the issue, if the story spreads, you better be damn sure that MS WILL explain themselves and fire whoever was responsible.

lol....someone should get fired over this?

 

[Mohonky]

Don't particularly care. I don't see a need for anyone to put something like that in their bio. I don't really know you would need to advertise yourself in any way shape or form to complete strangers.

Interestingly though, the ad at the top of my page at the moment is for a lesbian dating service lol

 

[JonathanEx]

Where at? I'm still only seeing stuff about the having Gay in the gamertag.

Twitter, where I've had a fun chat with him too.

 

[Flynn]

Don't particularly care. I don't see a need for anyone to put something like that in their bio. I don't really know you would need to advertise yourself in any way shape or form to complete strangers.

Because those same strangers call you a "fag" every time you play with them.

 

[Mama Robotnik]

ms doesnt have to explain anything, it's in their TOS and they did nothing wrong, just because the internets are all flustered because people want to read more into this then there really is doesnt mean they owe anyone anything

MS are trying to create and maintain a inclusive community. They are also banning people for describing a fundemental aspect of themselves, as fundementally, honest and harmless as saying ones own eye colour, or gender.

The reason for this: A bunch of neanderthals are offended, holding on to prejudice rather than moving towards an inclusive society. These neanderthals compose a number of MS's customer base, and the public are large, and MS do not want to deal with the tricky issue of doing the right thing, and having to defend it to the idiots.

It is their TOS. It also is outdated and wrong. Their assertion is that sexual orientation is alluding to sex. Surely gender and marital status are equally as alluding. For those who argue that mention of sexuality has no relevance on a profile, then why should people equally be given a voice to mention their gender, or age, or hobbies, or anything else for that matter? These are surely, equally as irrelevant.

Steam doesn't give a shit.

http://redscarlet.paragonsigma.com/omgoffensive!!!11.png

Trust Valve to cut through the bullshit and do the right thing, without doing anything at all. They couldn't be more awesome.

 

[Grecco]

First of all, just because it's in their TOS doesn't make it legal. Second of all, even if it is, it doesn't mean that it bad publicity concerning a dubious policy can't hurt their subscription numbers. So, unless there is a missing piece of the puzzle that clarifies the issue, if the story spreads, you better be damn sure that MS WILL explain themselves and fire whoever was responsible.

1.Yes its legal and 2.It wont hurt them at all.

 

[TheExodu5]

Yep



Steam Superior, Live Inferior

Hahaha. Looks like they really don't care.

I wanna have a game with that Elite Lesbian mom. :lol

 

[JonathanEx]

1.Yes its legal and 2.It wont hurt them at all.

If this goes mainstream press, it could hurt in terms of PR.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

lol....someone should get fired over this?

Depending on the backlash? Maybe. If it amounts to nothing, he's probably safe. However, if you start seeing news stories that are portraying Microsoft as having an anti-gay agenda, and it turns into a PR nightmare, I don't think some admin schmuck is above being served up as a sacrificial lamb. "This guy caused us tons of ill will from the gay community, but he was just adhering to our own ToS. We can't fire him for doing his job well!" 'Lol' indeed.

 

[Mohonky]

Because those same strangers call you a "fag" every time you play with them.

So? They're trying to get a rise out of you thinking you'll take offense to it. I couldn't give a shit. They're the ones that are upset, not me. Doesn't effect me in the slightest.

 

[Flynn]

So? They're trying to get a rise out of you thinking you'll take offense to it. I couldn't give a shit. They're the ones that are upset, not me. Doesn't effect me in the slightest.

Funny. I find homophobia and hate speech offensive.

 

[HokieJoe]

Because...she is a lesbian? Maybe she just felt like mentioning it.

Plenty of people don't lead active sex lives, and I'd guess the vast majority of them know what sexuality they are (although there are obviously some exceptions to this).

Stating ones sexual preference is not being a 'spazz looking for attention'. It's stating information about yourself, which is kind of the point of a profile. And for many homosexual and bisexual people, being forward about their sexual preferences is a huge deal, because of the way that society treats them.

Maybe I feel unappreciated and want to mention that I have a 9" penis in my Live profile. Afterall, I'm just stating information about myself (okay, I'm being a smartass). More simply, issues involving sexuality are not relevant or appropriate to all of the users on Live.

A point of clarification though. The article only mentions her profile. I couldn't care less if the information was only available to others by digging deeper into her profile. Children likely wouldn't see that info anyway. I'm only talking about the "motto" bit when the avatar is visible.

 

[RobertM]

MS are trying to create and maintain a inclusive community. They are also banning people for describing a fundemental aspect of themselves, as fundementally, honest and harmless as saying ones own eye colour, or gender.

The reason for this: A bunch of neanderthals are offended, holding on to prejudice rather than moving towards an inclusive society. These neanderthals compose a number of MS's customer base, and the public are large, and MS do not want to deal with the tricky issue of doing the right thing, and having to defend it to the idiots.

It is their TOS. It also is outdated and wrong. Their assertion is that sexual orientation is alluding to sex. Surely gender and marital status are equally as alluding. For those who argue that mention of sexuality has no relevance on a profile, then why should people equally be given a voice to mention their gender, or age, or hobbies, or anything else for that matter? These are surely, equally as irrelevant.



Trust Valve to cut through the bullshit and do the right thing, without doing anything at all. They couldn't be more awesome.

Some of those are fundamentals that identify your physical traits and basic form of identification in general. We are not at the point where homo and hetero sexuality are on even plain or that we can freely express it without prejudice, plus the controversy behind the very subject. I'm also sure that certain hobbies that you list might get you banned, even if they were just a harmless attempt at making a joke.

 

[TheGreatDave]

If this goes mainstream press, it could hurt in terms of PR.

No more so than if you spent 10 minutes playing XBL with a headset on.

All Microsoft have to do is explain they have a system in place where people can report things they find offensive, and based on their ToS comments of a sexual nature aren't allowed. Then they say they were doing for the children, and won't somebody please think of the children, and The Daily Mail will give them an award.

 

[JonathanEx]

Yeah, I understand that, though the problem for them is if the story is picked up, possibly by LGBT groups with the "lesbian" angle.

 

[HokieJoe]

:lol They should probably be taught to hate their own genitals. At least until they're eighteen.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. [/rollseyes]

 

[fortified_concept]

Maybe I feel unappreciated and want to mention that I have a 9" penis in my Live profile. Afterall, I'm just stating information about myself (okay, I'm being a smartass). More simply, issues involving sexuality are not relevant or appropriate to all of the users on Live.

A point of clarification though. The article only mentions her profile. I couldn't care less if the information was only available to others by digging deeper into her profile. Children likely wouldn't see that info anyway. I'm only talking about the "motto" bit when the avatar is visible.

She just described herself as gay. Jesus christ! You talk about the chance of kids reading her profile like it's a risk, like kids hearing about gays is something bad.

 

[JonathanEx]

She just described herself as gay. Jesus christ! You talk about the chance of kids reading her profile like it's a risk, like hearing about gays is something bad.

You forget, it's worse than bad, it's offensive.

 

[teiresias]

The issue of "sex" is not age appropriate for many who use the service.

Yeah, but Gears 2 is.

 

[Mohonky]

Funny. I find homophobia and hate speech offensive.

If you let it be. I look at it from the point of view if they are resorting to hate speech they're the ones that are more affected by you then you are them.

I just let them work themselves up. No point reacting.

 

[Slavik81]

I'd originally thought the parallel is so obvious it needed no mention, but since not a single person has mentioned this yet...

Pretty much the EXACT same thing happened in World of WarCraft in 2006, and we had the EXACT same discussion back then.

Blizzard garnered criticism for its decision in January 2006 to ban guilds from advertising sexual orientation preferences. The incident occurred after several players were cited for "harassment" after advocating a group for gay-straight alliance.[94][95] Blizzard later reversed the decision to issue warnings to players promoting LGBT-friendly guilds.
(source)

"While we appreciate and understand your point of view, we do feel that the advertisement of a 'GLBT friendly' guild is very likely to result in harassment for players that may not have existed otherwise. If you will look at our policy, you will notice the suggested penalty for violating the Sexual Orientation Harassment Policy is to 'be temporarily suspended from the game.' However, as there was clearly no malicious intent on your part, this penalty was reduced to a warning."
(source)

As I stated in my first post in the thread, I think the same solution is reasonable now as it was then. Give 'em a warning and unban them.

 

[RSTEIN]

Steam Superior, Live Inferior

Well, that was true before this bullshit started!

 

[JonathanEx]

A warning makes more sense if they insist on this policy, even though I disagree with it. They're putting "I am a lesbian" on a par with some of the most actually offensive racial slurs.

 

[HokieJoe]

Yeah, but Gears 2 is.

I didn't say Gears 2 is appropriate for children.

 

[-PXG-]

What next? I can't say I'm black because it's not "politically correct". I have to call myself "African American". Give me a fucking break.

 

[fortified_concept]

What next? I can't say I'm black because it's not "politically correct". I have to call myself "African American". Give me a fucking break.

If you say you're black you might anger some racist rednecks on Xbox Live which will cause a lot of hate and Microsoft doesn't want that. Please keep the fact that you're black to yourself. Also if you're muslim, atheist, socialist, feminist or any way different you better shut up because the way you identify yourself could cause trouble.

 

[Fewr]

XBOX360: Asexuals welcome.

Awesome.

Is it offensive that I've written hetrosexual? If you think so, you know the correct procedure to follow...

Incorrect spelling offends me.

I'd originally thought the parallel is so obvious it needed no mention, but since not a single person has mentioned this yet...

Pretty much the EXACT same thing happened in World of WarCraft in 2006, and we had the EXACT same discussion back then.

Post No. 161
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14920006&postcount=161

 

[d+pad]

Twitter, where I've had a fun chat with him too.

Who have you been twittering with? I'd like to see that discussion, honestly...

 

[Skiptastic]

- You break the rules, you suffer the consequences.
- I think the appropriate response should have been a warning and making her take it down from her profile.
- The title is wrong. Being a lesbian is not a bannable offense, but advertising such is. It's like smoking pot is not a bannable offense, but telling people you do so is. And, just to get all the sides of the coin covered, being a racist, homophobic asshole is not necessarily a bannable offense. But advertising it on your gamertag or profile? Yeah, that is. I mean, you could be a racist lesbian snorting coke off an elephant's dick, but if you don't talk about it and you don't put it on your gamer profile, guess what? You won't be banned.

This is all much ado about nothing.

 

[BlackGoku03]

If it was in the TOS there is not too much anybody can do. If you are using a service, a paid service especialy, you should know the Terms Of Service.

We don't know what really happened. We don't know the details of the story. There are things that are missing.

Maybe she should have been just given a warning but something happened that warrented her recieving a ban. I really think there is just not enough information to truely assess the situation.

No matter how stupid the TOS may be, you still have to follow it if you're using the service. Maybe things will change.

What next? I can't say I'm black because it's not "politically correct". I have to call myself "African American". Give me a fucking break.

Oh gawd... just... nevermind.

 

[pgtl_10]

you guys have no idea what could have been in her comments. it could have been very vulgar.

im just playing devils advocate here.

Xbox Live is known for its vulgar comments.