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Being a lesbian is a bannable offense on XBL

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Skiptastic said:
- You break the rules, you suffer the consequences.
- I think the appropriate response should have been a warning and making her take it down from her profile.
- The title is wrong. Being a lesbian is not a bannable offense, but advertising such is. It's like smoking pot is not a bannable offense, but telling people you do so is. And, just to get all the sides of the coin covered, being a racist, homophobic asshole is not necessarily a bannable offense. But advertising it on your gamertag or profile? Yeah, that is. I mean, you could be a racist lesbian snorting coke off an elephant's dick, but if you don't talk about it and you don't put it on your gamer profile, guess what? You won't be banned.

This is all much ado about nothing.
Perfect. It should be clear in the TOS, is it not? If it is then sorry she got banned but it was the rules.

If it wasn't then shame on Microsoft. Well... shame on them anyway because I don't think she should have been banned, just warned.
 
while this lady should be able to shout her sexuality proudly from the rooftops

telling the XBOX LIVE community that you're a lesbian..... I mean, really.
 
This kind of thing is going to start happening more and more. Like it or not these social gaming spaces are going to become a battle ground for these kinds of issues, primarily because the people who maintain these spaces allow homophobia and hate speech to run rampant.

This inspires people to step up and challenge the community and the people providing the service to find a suitable way to deal with the problem.

I like NeoGAF for many reasons, but one of the best reasons to like this place is for the moderation. They don't tolerate homophobia and hate speech. They ban for it. And they ban quickly. The approach works. We have tons of openly gay people here. They're not discouraged from expressing who they are. And, for the most part, they go unmolested.

That's the goal, right? Everybody getting along.
 
I know Nintendo refuses to let me play as my Hitler Mii in Mariokart. I find that overstretching. I think we need more freedom in online gaming. Taking offense to something on the internet is just overdoing it.
 
Was she a hot porn lesbian or a real life meh looking lesbian? Either way Xbox live shouldn't have taken away her rights. Poor girl can't even get married in America, now she can't get play video games either :(
 
perfectchaos007 said:
Was she a hot porn lesbian or a real life meh looking lesbian? Either way Xbox live shouldn't have taken away her rights. Poor girl can't even get married in America, now she can't get play video games either :(

Better question: why does that matter at all?
 
Dragona Akehi said:
Better question: why does that matter at all?
RonPaul.jpg
 
I honestly don't see the problem... she was banned for announcing her sexual orientation in her profile... the terms of service explicitly prohibit sexual references.

I don't think that the people who announce that they bang chicks in their profiles should be given a free pass either, but no one bothers to report them. I think that the blame in this situation should be placed on the toolbag that reported her profile as being offensive.

I personally don't care what is in someone's profile.. I don't even read them.

someone would probably be offended by the name wettshirtcontest too.. but we've yet to see it.
 
pgtl_10 said:
I know Nintendo refuses to let me play as my Hitler Mii in Mariokart. I find that overstretching. I think we need more freedom in online gaming. Taking offense to something on the internet is just overdoing it.

I don't appreciate being abused while playing Street Fighter over Xbox Live. I pay them money for this poxy service and their efforts to stamp out this insulting, abusive behaviour are pathetic.
 
-PXG- said:
What next? I can't say I'm black because it's not "politically correct". I have to call myself "African American". Give me a fucking break.

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism. When I refer to hyphenated Americans, I do not refer to naturalized Americans. Some of the very best Americans I have ever known were naturalized Americans, Americans born abroad. But a hyphenated American is not an American at all.

This is just as true of the man who puts “native” before the hyphen as of the man who puts German or Irish or English or French before the hyphen. Americanism is a matter of the spirit and of the soul. Our allegiance must be purely to the United States. We must unsparingly condemn any man who holds any other allegiance.

But if he is heartily and singly loyal to this Republic, then no matter where he was born, he is just as good an American as any one else.

The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of its continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities, an intricate knot of German-Americans, Irish-Americans, English- Americans, French-Americans, Scandinavian- Americans, or Italian-Americans, each preserving its separate nationality, each at heart feeling more sympathy with Europeans of that nationality than with the other citizens of the American Republic.

The men who do not become Americans and nothing else are hyphenated Americans; and there ought to be no room for them in this country. The man who calls himself an American citizen and who yet shows by his actions that he is primarily the citizen of a foreign land, plays a thoroughly mischievous part in the life of our body politic. He has no place here; and the sooner he returns to the land to which he feels his real heart-allegiance, the better it will be for every good American.

Theodore Roosevelt
Addressing the Knights of Columbus in New York City
12 October 1915

Sorry, I just love that speech. Now I need to go change my underpants. :D
 
xabre said:
I don't appreciate being abused while playing Street Fighter over Xbox Live. I pay them money for this poxy service and their efforts to stamp out this insulting, abusive behaviour are pathetic.
What could they do that wouldn't eventually lead to over stepping their boundaries though?
 
Skiptastic said:
Being a lesbian is not a bannable offense, but advertising such is.
I'm actually kind of ashamed to say I agree with this.
I don't support Microsoft's stance on "offensive" words, but anyone who is internet-capable enough to create such a big deal about this (whether right or wrong) should also be familiar with the silly things Xbox LIVE doesn't allow. The TOS is in dire need of a makeover, but to treat this situation like this woman has been singled out is idiotic.
 
Good job on making MS look like the bad guy in this situation.

If someone gets enough bad feedback no matter what the issue is they will force you to change your GT or suspend your account. It's not about her being a lesbian, its about homophobes being offended. I don't agree with it at all but it is what it is.

Why does she feel obligated to tell everyone her sexual preference anyways? Should we all put "straight" in our profiles?
 
GenericPseudonym said:
Wow. Someone lost their privilege to play videogames on a private network for disobeying the network provider's rules. That sure is some travesty.
This. Nothing about her orientation got her banned, just her attention seeking mouth. I mute anyone that I hear talking about nasty things when playing online, sexual subjects included.
 
I didn't realize Xbox Live gameplay offered so many opportunities to reveal your sexual orientation.

This is the online service equivalent of starting a political discussion in the Noby Noby Boy thread.

Everyone calls everyone else gay on Xbox Live, and no one cares if you actually are.
 
GenericPseudonym said:
Wow. Someone lost their privilege to play videogames on a private network for disobeying the network provider's rules. That sure is some travesty.

The point is not that Microsoft shouldn't have the right to ban whomever they like. It's that some of us think that this particular aspect of their TOS is culturally unacceptable in this day and age. There's a difference between a profile which contains sexually explicit content, and one which contains the disclosure of one's sexual orientation.
 
I do not understand Xbox Live. I had my name banned and I had to change it. My thoughts on it if I am paying for your service at least give some privacy on the comments section. Also if the name is not vulgar don't ask for a change. Cause there are a lot of names that are offensive on it and they don't seem to get changed.
 
BakedPigeon said:
Good job on making MS look like the bad guy in this situation.

If someone gets enough bad feedback no matter what the issue is they will force you to change your GT or suspend your account. It's not about her being a lesbian, its about homophobes being offended. I don't agree with it at all but it is what it is.

Why does she feel obligated to tell everyone her sexual preference anyways? Should we all put "straight" in our profiles?

Everyone is already assumed to be straight. Maybe she put it in there so guys would stop hitting on her? To meet people with like interests as her? It's not rocket science.
 
catfish said:
while this lady should be able to shout her sexuality proudly from the rooftops

telling the XBOX LIVE community that you're a lesbian..... I mean, really.
You'd think people would appreciate her saving them time. Rather than instantly sending a friend request etc, the desperate internet males could waste their time on a girl that might possibly (heh) be interested in them instead.

She was really doing a everyone involved a public service.
 
I think they're trying to promote equality by banning everything related to sexuality... The thing is, no one openly says, "I'm straight/hetero" in their profiles or whatever so they don't get banned. On the flip, mentioning you're "gay/homosexual/lesbian" is banned across the board.

That and you can't have it both ways; you either ban all people who use homosexuality (offensively or otherwise) or you allow people to use it any way they want. I have a feeling far more people use it offensively than not. I know, I know, it's easy to tell when someone is using it normally and when someone is using it maliciously, but the problem is you can't expect MS to have to sift there every case (hence the ban hammer in full effect -- it's just easier and more unilateral.)
 
Wow. I can't believe how many people just don't understand what it's like. Ever heard of heteronormativity? It's when people talk as if there are no gay people around, like they don't exist (basically ignorance). And it can be really hard for gay people. It makes them feel abnormal and especially over the internet (where anyone can be on the other end) it's disheartening. You don't want to come out to everyone you meet, but at the same time, people make assumptions about you being straight everywhere you go. So what are you supposed to do? Hide it? It's a very difficult issue. No one would say "I'm straight" in their profile because, well, there is no gay equivalent to heteronormativity, at least not on Xbox Live. But if there were a gay-heavy online gaming service, I'm sure a lot of straight people would put "straight" in their profile. As well, maybe this woman was asking for a little sensitivity to all the hate-speech. There is simply nothing wrong with it. The way people act turned me off of Xbox Live immediately. It's ridiculous. My solution is to not subscribe, but I shouldn't have to do that.

If Microsoft strictly forbids mentioning your orientation, that's just strange. Are gamertags like 'Angelinaishot' wrong? What about furry references? Sexuality comes out in all we do, even across the internet. It would be nice, in theory, if none of the stereotypes were true (straight or gay) and no one ever came across sexual behavior or content over the internet, but we don't live in a vacuum. It happens and people try to cope or explain or ask for tolerance or understanding, or whatever. Anyone that believes that gay people 'advertise it' clearly don't understand and, not to make assumptions, but I really doubt they know any gay people very well. This ignorance needs to stop. Instead of living in a bubble of FUD, learn a little bit about what it's like being gay in our culture.
 
Aske said:
The point is not that Microsoft shouldn't have the right to ban whomever they like. It's that some of us think that this particular aspect of their TOS is culturally unacceptable in this day and age. There's a difference between a profile which contains sexually explicit content, and one which contains the disclosure of one's sexual orientation.


Which of the following things sounds more reasonable:

A) The woman had no business posting or boasting her sexual orientation on a service that has nothing to do with sex, or even social interaction. It's a service that embraces gaming identity.

or

B) Microsoft created a horrible rule in their terms of service that could be interpreted to easily discriminate against gay users, and the entire gay and lesbian population should be outraged at Microsoft's thinly veiled bigotry.
 
Speevy do you own an Xbox? Xbox Live is all about social interation. That was the whole point of the updated proiles in the first place. You can look at your friend's friends. Write about yourself your likes/dislikes. State your name, age and location, etc. How is it not a social network?
 
Speevy said:
I didn't realize Xbox Live gameplay offered so many opportunities to reveal your sexual orientation.

This is the online service equivalent of starting a political discussion in the Noby Noby Boy thread.

Everyone calls everyone else gay on Xbox Live, and no one cares if you actually are.



Kotaku said:
Teresa tells the Consumerist "I was harassed by several players, 'chased' to different maps/games to get away from their harassment. They followed me into the games and told all the other players to turn me in because they didn't want to see that crap or their kids to see that crap."


They're swell people.
 
Speevy said:
Which of the following things sounds more reasonable:

A) The woman had no business posting or boasting her sexual orientation on a service that has nothing to do with sex, or even social interaction. It's a service that embraces gaming identity.

or

B) Microsoft created a horrible rule in their terms of service that could be interpreted to easily discriminate against gay users, and the entire gay and lesbian population should be outraged at Microsoft's thinly veiled bigotry.

Answer B, without the strawman at the end?

XBL is definitely a social service, and I'm sure plenty of GAFfers can talk about someone they met playing a game online. It's weird enough for gay dudes on XBL, but women? She was probably sick of people hitting on her all the damn time.
 
PSGames said:
Speevy do you own an Xbox? Xbox Live is all about social interation. That was the whole point of proile in the first place. You can look at your friend's friends. Right about yourself in your profile. State your name, age and location. How is it not a social network?


Yeah I have an Xbox 360, but I also understand the point of my profile is not to reveal things that have absolutely no one playing Gears of War 2 or whatever finds interesting.

It would be like posting "I'm divorced and am looking to meet someone new." in my Xbox Live profile. Who needs that information? Well I'll tell you who doesn't. Anyone who uses Xbox Live.
 
Speevy said:
It would be like posting "I'm divorced and am looking to meet someone new." in my Xbox Live profile. Who needs that information? Well I'll tell you who doesn't. Anyone who uses Xbox Live.
That would be hilarious.
 
Speevy said:
Yeah I have an Xbox 360, but I also understand the point of my profile is not to reveal things that have absolutely no one playing Gears of War 2 or whatever finds interesting.

It would be like posting "I'm divorced and am looking to meet someone new." in my Xbox Live profile. Who needs that information? Well I'll tell you who doesn't. Anyone who uses Xbox Live.

I don't think you're looking at this the right way. Why post your age, location or anything else about yourself then? This woman posting that she's a lesbian is no different then me stating I'm from Atlanta. Aslong as it's not vulgar what's the big deal?
 
RiskyChris said:
XBL is definitely a social service, and I'm sure plenty of GAFfers can talk about someone they met playing a game online. It's weird enough for gay dudes on XBL, but women? She was probably sick of people hitting on her all the damn time.


I think the problem is how we're defining "social". If I play a game with you, then decide to add you to my friends list, play co-op games, form a clan, talk about games, where we live, that's cool. I've done that before. But it all ties back into games. Extra information may help you learn more about me, but (hopefully) you aren't interested in that, because all I want to do is play games.
 
I think before anyone gets up in arms, they should hear the full story. The Consumerist isn't exactly known for its objectiveness. Although if this turns out to be true, I'll provide the pitchforks and torches.
 
Dragmire said:
Wow. I can't believe how many people just don't understand what it's like. Ever heard of heteronormativity? It's when people talk as if there are no gay people around, like they don't exist (basically ignorance). And it can be really hard for gay people. It makes them feel abnormal and especially over the internet (where anyone can be on the other end) it's disheartening. You don't want to come out to everyone you meet, but at the same time, people make assumptions about you being straight everywhere you go. So what are you supposed to do? Hide it? It's a very difficult issue. No one would say "I'm straight" in their profile because, well, there is no gay equivalent to heteronormativity, at least not on Xbox Live. But if there were a gay-heavy online gaming service, I'm sure a lot of straight people would put "straight" in their profile. As well, maybe this woman was asking for a little sensitivity to all the hate-speech. There is simply nothing wrong with it. The way people act turned me off of Xbox Live immediately. It's ridiculous. My solution is to not subscribe, but I shouldn't have to do that.

If Microsoft strictly forbids mentioning your orientation, that's just strange. Are gamertags like 'Angelinaishot' wrong? What about furry references? Sexuality comes out in all we do, even across the internet. It would be nice, in theory, if none of the stereotypes were true (straight or gay) and no one ever came across sexual behavior or content over the internet, but we don't live in a vacuum. It happens and people try to cope or explain or ask for tolerance or understanding, or whatever. Anyone that believes that gay people 'advertise it' clearly don't understand and, not to make assumptions, but I really doubt they know any gay people very well. This ignorance needs to stop. Instead of living in a bubble of FUD, learn a little bit about what it's like being gay in our culture.

Xbox Live is not a dating service though, and it is not really necessary to clarify what your sexual preference is. The great thing about Xbox Live is your ability to have a friends list. Discussions are more personal when your talking with people you know so its fine if your talking about that type of stuff IMO. There is just no need to advertise something that has nothing to do with what the service is about.
 
Speevy said:
I think the problem is how we're defining "social". If I play a game with you, then decide to add you to my friends list, play co-op games, form a clan, talk about games, where we live, that's cool. I've done that before. But it all ties back into games. Extra information may help you learn more about me, but (hopefully) you aren't interested in that, because all I want to do is play games.

Many of the people added to my friends list are people who were fun to game with and/or had qualities I liked in people.

Sometimes people like to play games and talk too.
 
PSGames said:
I don't think you're looking at this the right way. Why post your age, location or anything else about yourself then? This woman posting that she's a lesbian is no different then me stating I'm from Atlanta. Aslong as it's not vulgar what's the big deal?


It's not vulgar at all, and for the record, I have no problem whatsoever with homosexuals who are as open about their sexual orientation as they can be.

I just don't think Xbox Live is the proper channel. It's not inappropriate. It's not offensive. But it's also kind of the opposite of what would make one gamer interested in more gaming interaction with another gamer.
 
Micromegas said:
There are so many things that can be said about this... but I'll go with:

It's ironic for Microsoft to make a stand at the "gamertag" level when we all know that as soon as you put on the headset and join a game of Halo, you hear 10 things a minute that are more offensive that anybody could ever do in their gamertag or motto or whatever.

No, you can't be a "lesbian" but you'll here "gay" or "fag" w/in 10 seconds of any given game over Live.

Microsoft bans this girl, but fails to deal with the enormous elephant in the living room.

Microsoft fails.

Again.

Your "Elephant in the living room" phrase reminded me of that horrific video from a few years ago, where a gamer went on Live with the name "xxxGayBoyxxx".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6alOnuN-wCY

Other than making me sick, the video suggested to me at the time that Microsoft should be monitoring at least some of the matches, and banning left and right when shit like this happens.

Then again, this video was recorded years back and I haven't used Live for a long time, so maybe things have improved? And yes, I accept that the above is a rather extreme example.
 
Wow, I thought this thread would be full of reprehensible opinions, but I really had no idea just how many, or just how farcicially childish and dementedly selfish they would be.

People arguing that she should know the TOS are speaking out of their arseholes. The TOS says not to say anything offensive online, or face action. The word in question on her profile was 'lesbian', in the context of 'I am a lesbian'. Thats not an offensive word - and no, it cannot be 'argued to be offensive' by right-wing people because its just as stupid as getting offended over someone calling themselves black, or tall, or old. She's a lesbian, its a fact. Its not a swear word.

Microsoft will change this by embarrasment.

EDIT: and those saying Xbox Live is not the channel for discussing sexuality! My god! Either you run a social network on your console or you don't! Lord have mercy.
 
BakedPigeon said:
Xbox Live is not a dating service though, and it is not really necessary to clarify what your sexual preference is. The great thing about Xbox Live is your ability to have a friends list. Discussions are more personal when your talking with people you know so its fine if your talking about that type of stuff IMO. There is just no need to advertise something that has nothing to do with what the service is about.
No, it can have everything to do with the service if a person feels uncomfortable with the way others speak to them and/or behave. As I said, it turned me off of the service immediately. I should be able to play it just like anyone else and feel comfortable.

And I really don't know what dating has to do with anything I said.
 
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