balladofwindfishes
Member
In some ways, like healthcare.
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Bernie Sanders endorses Hillary Clinton for president
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In some ways, like healthcare.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Sanders brings the socialist label which is less than ideal when courting centrist or center right voters. Clinton wants someone she gets along with and trusts. Primarily those.
I love Bernie, but he never had a chance against Hillary. If the biggest knock against Hillary is "her Sent folder raises questions" then it would take an out-of-this-world event -- like, actual aliens from a distant galaxy appearing and endorsing her competition -- to stop her from winning the presidency.
SciencePilot
Member
Great speech. I wonder how many people who are saying he sold out actually read/watched the whole thing. Because it makes good points -- If you really want reforms on the issues Bernie care about then it's pretty clear that the best option you have available to you when voting is to go for Clinton.
TestOfTide
Banned
Politics is about what can change and how can you change it. Voting Jill Stein does nothing to accomplish change.
gutter_trash
Banned
please be Newt, please be Newt
Prodigal Son
Member
Happy Day!
obin_gam
Member
Voting Stein is like taking a match to your vote.
Sometimes you should take the chicken if you cant have the fish.
boiled goose
good with gravy
That is my choice to make and it makes more sense to me as well. I prefer the seats than to make a statement. BUT, I think all votes mean something even if you don't end up on the winning side. Stein getting 5% of the popular vote vs 0.1% means something. People just have to vote how they want to vote. You can disagree, but that doesn't give you the right to feel better about yourself because your preferred candidate ended up on the winning side.
Folks here thinking that Bernie supporters flocking to Stein are just "trying to stick it to the man" don't really get it and should spend more time talking to actual people not attacking caricatures based on online trolls. .
Disagree here. Votes still mean something and can result in change even if you don't win.
ShockingAlberto
Member
Why can't people see the politicians I dislike are oppressing them? Someone should take away their right to vote so we can really move on from this oppression.
I'm sure Stein has the perfect homeopathic remedy for that burn.
minor effort
Banned
The primary process got a little too rancorous to make a Bernie VP pick likely. That's not even necessarily meant as a dig against Sanders, as the same argument could be made for why Clinton herself wasn't made the "unity" VP pick in 2008.
You don't want your VP to come prepackaged months of attack soundbites against the nominee to your opposition leading up to November, and you don't want your VP to be someone who might still think they "coulda/woulda/shoulda" won the nomination themselves. Every negative thing Sanders said about Clinton during the primary process would have been dredged up and dusted off during the general election.
It's not worth the risk, Clinton will get enough Sanders supporters on board by November.
You don't want your VP to come prepackaged months of attack soundbites against the nominee to your opposition leading up to November, and you don't want your VP to be someone who might still think they "coulda/woulda/shoulda" won the nomination themselves. Every negative thing Sanders said about Clinton during the primary process would have been dredged up and dusted off during the general election.
It's not worth the risk, Clinton will get enough Sanders supporters on board by November.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I think Stein is too...abrasive to win in a general. In a lot of ways, she can be a leftist Trump.
Tweeting about how Hillary does not understand the values of motherhood on mother's day was just incredibly poor form and was such a blatant attention grab.
Tweeting about how Hillary does not understand the values of motherhood on mother's day was just incredibly poor form and was such a blatant attention grab.
jack_package_200
Banned
"Take a healing crystal and shove it where the sun don't shine"
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
The lesser of two evils.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree. In the US, a third party candidate getting some minor % of the vote and losing means absolutely nothing. Literally, nothing.
Hey she was elected as town representative once. Hand her the nuclear codes.
Why are you searching out noxious comments on the internet to share.
Bernie and Hillery:
Trump is the Anti Spiral but who is Lord Genome?
It's the same thought process that lead to disappointed democrats to scapegoat independent voters for Bush.
How about you manage your own voting blocs and let the rest of us decide for ourselves who the best candidate is? Or whether we want to support the current system at all by casting a vote. All extremely valid choices that are criticized by party zealots and Kool-Aid drinkers. If you aren't on their drugs, then you might as well not exist.
Sanders endorsement was expected. The timing made sense too. Sanders ran a relatively normal campaign. Nothing really dirty. If you wanted him to do less, then you might as well have asked him to get out his pom poms, and wave the Clinton flag in March. An absolutely ridiculous expectation and an insulting one at that.
At least it appears this country was moved more leftward by Sanders's campaign. It appears that he made some realize that it's okay to actually aim beyond what makes your money people feel comfortable. I hope Clinton actively supports and champions the ideals she once had. You are up against Donald Trump. Use this as a platform to be progressive. Don't play it safe like you are up against a real candidate. Aim higher.
I have not decided what I will do in the Fall. I do not believe I will vote for Clinton. I voted for Obama in 2012. We will see.
boiled goose
good with gravy
Again disagree. It might mean the difference between courting a little bit left or a little bit right next time around. I agree that in the US electorate college winner take all, majority needed system it means very little. But nothing? nah
I don't agree with the green party enough to consider voting for them, but people can vote for the option that best fits them from the full spectrum.
Sanders did not more the country left, he moved the DNC platform left.
balladofwindfishes
Member
Can you back this up with historical evidence?
Because Nader didn't really change much for the Democrats. Kerry was more conservative than Gore, and while Gore did go on and do a lot of environmental stuff, it wasn't really tied to the Democrat party. And he was always like that.
Perot didn't really have any notable effect on the two party system or the Republicans. Other than the two parties agreeing to add stuff to make it harder for third parties to compete.
Going even further back to the Bull Moose party, when that election ended, they just packed it up and went back to the GOP and nothing changed at all besides a Democrat being president instead of Taft.
Looking back at major third party candidates, it's hard to actually find good examples where the third party candidate actually did anything besides spoil the election.
Major changes in parties happen from within, and almost always are tied to some life changing event like major civil unrest, war or economic collapse. Not because a third party got 2% more than the previous year.
I just don't understand how you voted for Obama in 2012 but refuse to vote for Clinton. It really just makes zero sense to me.
For all the Bernie supporters who claiming they'll vote 3rd party instead of Hillary, I hope they put as much effort into midterms and other local/state elections.
Because as far as I can tell, they haven't.
If people were really that interested in a third party, then they'd be making their voices heard more frequently than just every 4 years for the presidential elections, and they'd be actually voting for local and state representatives that potentially have the power to make 3rd parties more viable in the United States.
Because as far as I can tell, they haven't.
If people were really that interested in a third party, then they'd be making their voices heard more frequently than just every 4 years for the presidential elections, and they'd be actually voting for local and state representatives that potentially have the power to make 3rd parties more viable in the United States.
teruterubozu
Member
Maybe he regrets voting for Obama?
Bernie supporters who are more eager to suck down GOP propaganda about Hillary than actually read about Hillary's own accomplishments and her own voting record and the fact that she was a more liberal Senator than Obama was.
But it doesn't. At all. Your claim is neither based in fact nor is it supported by historical evidence. The only impact a third party candidate gaining a somewhat significant % has is the way it impacts the ratios of the major party candidates. That is why, when discussing Stein, everyone brings up how it impacts the democrats and how it's pissing your vote away or borderline voting for the republicans. Because years and years of data, evidence, and election cycles have taught us that.
gutter_trash
Banned
you Lefty-Lefts do know that Hillary is more Left than Obama on domestic issues, right?... right?
This is where a lot of folks will get exasperated, I suspect.
Stein isn't going to nominate judges. Or sign/veto bills. Or get the big bully pulpit. Or sign trade deals. You can describe in the abstract or in an emotional sense what a Stein vote does.. but until you can point to concrete policy change and not something from the realm of touchy-feely magical thinking, a lot of us will remain skeptical.
And_Gignac
Member
This was the best outcome. I hope this doesn't hit his credibility, since Clinton remains unnervingly unpopular.
But he did what he wanted to do, made the ESTABLISHMENT shake and make it fall into compromise. let's hope he continues to lead on the changes the Democratic Party needs, specially the party being surrendered to market interests.
But he did what he wanted to do, made the ESTABLISHMENT shake and make it fall into compromise. let's hope he continues to lead on the changes the Democratic Party needs, specially the party being surrendered to market interests.
I voted for Obama, because I thought Mitt Romney was an asshole. I may do the same this Fall, but I don't believe I will, because I don't think there is any chance Trump wins.
I hope they simply read the platforms on their candidate's website, really.
If they want to cast a vote of support for anti-GMO moratoriums, by all means, it's their right. But at least take the time to read what's included in the platform and what it might entail.
Without a shadow of a doubt.
Her anti-science positions are orders of magnitude more harmful to poor people than anything else proposed by the democrat platform.
"Nobody I know voted for Nixon"
gutter_trash
Banned
that's what people in the UK thought, that Leave wouldn't win...
Republicans that are switching sides to support Hillery.
obin_gam
Member
That kind of thinking is what got the UK out of the EU.
David H Wong
Banned
No one is telling them they're not allowed to vote how they want. But it is pure math that if Bernie supporters vote for the Green Party candidate, they're making it easier for Trump to win. That's just now numbers work. It's an imperfect world and, as a matter of pure black and white fact, a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump. It just is. You can tell yourself whatever you want, but I'm pretty sure virtually all of those people are ones whose lives won't be directly affected by a Trump supreme court (say goodbye to abortion rights, gay marriage, expect many, many more restrictions on voting rights, etc).
If someone seems genuinely confused about how that works (that because they don't INTEND to support Trump then it doesn't matter what actually occurs) then they need it explained to them. It's not "giving them shit", it's telling them how voting works. It's clear some people haven't thought it through.
Prodigal Son
Member
I understand that you want to fight the sort of shoo in complacency that, in theory, could land Trump a victory but let's be real here.
Trump has no chance.
EDIT: Still vote though.
gutter_trash
Banned
People who don't want Trump as President but refuse to vote for Hillary are just washing their hands going: ''Well, I didn't vote for Trump'' symbolic moral high ground nonsense
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