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[[Nintex]]

There's no doubt that Crysis has impressive explosions, but the after effects after that explosion are not as detailed as in KZ2. In essence, the rubble effects and debris on ground after you've shot through a wall or the detailed after effects of a rocket boom blast are more detailed and believable in KZ2.


One thing I've witnessed on many forums is that certain graphical terms are used as automatic benchmark setters, but let me tell you, that is not always the case in graphical discussions of know. I will only attempt to argue this from a logical standpoint though, or perhaps I'll just ask you a question or two. Do you think that implementing typical "HDR" into KZ2's dark foreboding environments would have been the best lighting implementation for it? Would plopping HDR lighting into KZ2's engine mix, make it a better lit game? Do you think a game's lighting is automatically inferior because the godly "HDR" lighting wasn't used? I'll leave you to ponder. Still I'll just say this. It seems somewhat festered in your mind that the dynamic lighting in KZ2 is inferior to "your typical" "HDR" at least the implementations on consoles and PC so far, but that is so far from the truth, technologies evolve all the time and the lighting in KZ2 is easily one of the most impressive uses of light technology in a VG.

I don't know what crazy world you live in, you make about as much sense as I do.

 

[tfur]

It certainly looks great. Still, maybe the people you're referring to just don't know the right way to describe what they see as a lack of variety.
I think they're referring to the fact that KZ2 is limited to a single lighting model on all objects, "thanks" to its deferred renderer engine. It certainly has less variety in that compared to other games.

I think you are going to have to be more specific on lighting models, dynamic lighting, and dynamic environmental lighting, in comparison to other games. You need to define the other games, and their models.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Some nice screens of the new maps.

 

[thelastword]

HDR isn't a lighting model in the sense that you seem to think it is. It has nothing to do with the lighting of the actual environment, it just keeps the contrast between light and dark at a certain level. Not all implementations of HDR are equally good, but technically any HDR would give a tangible benefit to the appearance of any game. And I'm pretty sure KZ2 uses a form of HDR as it is.

Notice carefully, I said typical HDR. I just think it's folly for people to automatically assume a game is better lit on the spur of the "HDR" term, that is simply not the case and I think KZ2 is the perfect example of this. I'm sure there are some implementations of HDR in KZ2, but the additional volume of dynamic lights made the difference, aided of course by the deferred renderer. Point is, the end result is what does the talking, but if you want to get technical, there are also elements of raytracing in KZ2's lighting model. I just want to dispel the myth that it's inferior because it's not typical HDR.

 

[Jaagen]

HDR isn't a lighting model in the sense that you seem to think it is. It has nothing to do with the lighting of the actual environment, it just keeps the contrast between light and dark at a certain level. Not all implementations of HDR are equally good, but technically any HDR would give a tangible benefit to the appearance of any game. And I'm pretty sure KZ2 uses a form of HDR as it is.

I think Killzone 2 "fakes it", in the sense that Shadow of the Colosus "fakes it"(not an actual FP10/16 buffer or whatever...think I read it somewhere)

 

[gogogow]

:lol

fugly valkyria chronicles screenshot resized to 1080p[img]

That's best graphics of this gen?

Some of these posts, sheesh.[/QUOTE]
You sure you can't find an even uglier screenshot?

The game looks more like this, but sharper.
Imo it's not the best looking game of this gen, but definitely one of the most unique looking game.
[IMG]http://www.gamershell.com/static/screenshots/13010/284409_full.jpg

 

[antiloop]

KZ2 uses wordlight:

One of our more recent research projects is a highly realistic lighting and shadowing solution for complex outdoor environments.

Worldlight uses a diffuse PRT solution to provide soft light and shadows resulting from direct and indirect illumination by an HDR skydome. On top of this, it adds a directional sunlight term which is correctly shadowed by the world geometry.

Objects in the world are lit using similar techniques, with their diffuse and specular lighting environments being created on the fly from their surroundings. This anchors the objects in the world and ensures that their lighting is always an accurate match for the local environment.

The resulting HDR image is then tone-mapped for display using one of several tone-mapping algorithms in real-time.

Efficient PRT mesh format using 12 bytes per vertex - only as much data as a floating-point normal!
CPCA compression allowing arbitrary order of PRT simulation with the same per-vertex size and runtime cost. Higher orders cost more CPU time and CPCA basis table storage, but the GPU cost remains constant.
Multiresolution shadow maps giving crisp shadows both close-up on small details and in the distance on large buildings. Shadow map selection avoids use of the stencil buffer completely.
Depth guided screen-space shadow filtering for soft shadows without depth artifacts.
Local cubemaps for both specular lighting and PRT Spherical Harmonic diffuse lightsource generation.
Real-time implementation of Geigel and Musgrave tonemapping. This simulates the nonlinear behaviour of different negative and print film emulsions allowing the user to input film characteristic curve data and see the real-time world rendererd as though photographed with the film they have selected.

http://secondintention.com/portfolio/worldlight/
http://www.secondintention.com/news/a10

 

[Nikorasu]

Notice carefully, I said typical HDR. I just think it's folly for people to automatically assume a game is better lit on the spur of the "HDR" term, that is simply not the case and I think KZ2 is the perfect example of this. I'm sure there are some implementations of HDR in KZ2, but the additional volume of dynamic lights made the difference, aided of course by the deferred renderer. Point is, the end result is what does the talking, but if you want to get technical, there are also elements of raytracing in KZ2's lighting model. I just want to dispel the myth that it's inferior because it's not typical HDR.

Fair enough, you're absolutely right of course. In the end it's what you see on the screen that matters, whether it's 'real' or not, because really, all real-time 3d is just a bunch of visual trickery and workaround techniques as brute-forcing everything using raw polys is impossible.

I think Killzone 2 "fakes it", in the sense that Shadow of the Colosus "fakes it"(not an actual FP10/16 buffer or whatever...think I read it somewhere)

Yeah, I don't hold it against the game's technical merits for cutting a few corners in the standard 'next-gen effects' checklist if it helps them maintain the kind of visual cohesiveness that kz2 has.

 

[Minsc]

You sure you can't find an even uglier screenshot?

The game looks more like this, but sharper.
Imo it's not the best looking game of this gen, but definitely one of the most unique looking game.

Unique, yes, nice looking, definitely, but damn if you can't lose an eye with some of those jaggies.

 

[charsace]

HDR isn't a lighting model in the sense that you seem to think it is. It has nothing to do with the lighting of the actual environment, it just keeps the contrast between light and dark at a certain level. Not all implementations of HDR are equally good, but technically any HDR would give a tangible benefit to the appearance of any game. And I'm pretty sure KZ2 uses a form of HDR as it is.

Killzone doesn't use HDR. They use bloom.

 

[lowrider007]

Unique, yes, nice looking, definitely, but damn if you can't lose an eye with some of those jaggies.

True but becuase of the art style I don't think they detract too much from the enjoyment of the game, it is meant to look like it's hand-drawn after all.

Games like Halo 3 for example though, yuck, the jaggies really killed the game for me, I don't know what it was about that game but it was like it had aliasing++ or something.

 

[TouchMyBox]

Unique, yes, nice looking, definitely, but damn if you can't lose an eye with some of those jaggies.

Wait, there are good looking console games with good framerates and no jaggies?

Valkyria Chronicles looks awesome, not the best on the system, but pretty awesome.

 

[rezuth]

Killzone doesn't use HDR. They use bloom.

Worldlight more or less is HDR, so yes it does.

 

[methane47]

:lol

That's best graphics of this gen?

Some of these posts, sheesh.

looks like a painting come to life.

 

[methane47]

Some nice screens of the new maps.

WIAT WIAT WAIT WAIT WAIT>!>!>!>!>!

NEW MAPS!!!!

HAVE I BEEN OUT OF THE KZ2 Thread for THAT LONG!!!

WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[charsace]

Worldlight more or less is HDR, so yes it does.

If the information isn't stored in 16 or 32 bits it isn't HDR.

 

[methane47]

If the information isn't stored in 16 or 32 bits it isn't HDR.

Medium Dynamic Range then....


--__--

 

[AKS]

:lol

That's best graphics of this gen?

Some of these posts, sheesh.

Valkyria Chronicles is a work of art and a sight to behold in motion. It's one of the most artistically impressive games of this generation. It should be listed for artistic rather than graphical excellence, but regardless it's beautiful and an outstanding game to boot.

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

Some screenshots I stumbled across of RAGE today that I hadn't seen before. Thought I would bring them in here. They were actually meant to go along with a podcast on how they do their geometry modeling, so I believe they're actually taken from the editor, so I don't know if there is extra polish the engine puts on during gameplay. I imagine in the canyon shot you will be able to see more than just the isolated area

 

[rezuth]

If the information isn't stored in 16 or 32 bits it isn't HDR.

HDR images require a higher number of bits per color channel than traditional images, both because of the linear encoding and because they need to represent values from 10−4 to 108 (the range of visible luminance values) or more. 16-bit ("half precision") or 32-bit floating point numbers are often used to represent HDR pixels. However, when the appropriate transfer function is used, HDR pixels for some applications can be represented with as few as 10–12 bits for luminance and 8 bits for chrominance without introducing any visible quantization artifacts.

Worldlight uses a diffuse PRT solution to provide soft light and shadows resulting from direct and indirect illumination by an HDR skydome. On top of this, it adds a soft directional sunlight term which is correctly shadowed by the world geometry.

Objects in the world are lit using similar techniques, with their diffuse and specular lighting environments being created on the fly from their surroundings. This anchors the objects in the world and ensures that their lighting is always an accurate match for the local environment.

The resulting HDR image is then tone-mapped for display using one of several tone-mapping algorithms in real-time.

Efficient PRT mesh format using 12 bytes per vertex – only as much data as a floating-point normal!

Time to bite the dust, fagget.

 

[charsace]

Time to bite the dust, fagget.

Whoa, what's with the name calling? What does my sexuality have to do with HDR information storage?

 

[rezuth]

Whoa, what's with the name calling?

:lol Sorry, you just seemed so sure. I had to do a "fatility"

 

[Deleted member 30609]

This is what Crysis looks like. Running on my computer. With a $150 video card

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/lmn8r/crysiscust1.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/lmn8r/crysiscust2.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/lmn8r/crysiscust3.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/lmn8r/crysiscust4.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]https://www.msu.edu/~cohenjor/warhead12.jpg[/IM]
[IMG]https://www.msu.edu/~cohenjor/warhead13.jpg[/IM]
[IMG]https://www.msu.edu/~cohenjor/warhead14.jpg[/IM]
[IMG]https://www.msu.edu/~cohenjor/warhead15.jpg[/IM][/QUOTE]
No qualms there, that's almost what my copy almost looks like when I run it in DX9 mode (I use XP) and force some DX10 features. Those looks like real shots, no doubt. :)

 

[Haunted]

Carmack is a beast.


Unreleased games don't count, though.

 

[pringles]

I missed the last 20 pages. Did the majority agree with me that Bioshock is tops?

Yep, I think we reached a consensus that Bioshock is the best.
The battle for 2nd place is still raging though with Crysis and KZ2 seemingly being the top candidates. Uncharted and Mirror's Edge (PC) are contenders as well.

 

[Minsc]

Valkyria Chronicles is a work of art and a sight to behold in motion. It's one of the most artistically impressive games of this generation. It should be listed for artistic rather than graphical excellence, but regardless it's beautiful and an outstanding game to boot.

Don't get me wrong, I agree 100%, artistically the game is way up there, not as high imo as some people are saying, though I am not that huge a fan of this particular style. Same reason why Elemental: War of Magic doesn't really do it for me, but I know I'll love the gameplay regardless.

But on purely graphical merit, the game should not even be mentioned from the screenshots I've seen.

 

[Spoit]

Carmack is a beast.


Unreleased games don't count, though.

TBH I really wasn't all that impressed with the textures in ETQW (PC version of course)

 

[WHOAguitarninja]

TBH I really wasn't all that impressed with the textures in ETQW (PC version of course)

That is the doom 3 engine. Or rather, a modified doom 3 engine with basically an Alpha version of their megatexture tech. The only place it used it was on the actual terrain, and then apparently it had several limitations in regards to zooming. Buildings, characters, weapons, etc all were textured using normal methods. All those have since been fixed, and now the megatexture tech works on all surfaces. To demonstrate that, the face of the old man when they first showed the game(my avatar) is 2kx2k, which is huge.

 

[McLovin]

This thread reminded me I hadn't bought Halo 3 yet.. so I did. Holy hell how come you 360 guys didn't complain to bungie.. this game looks like ass. If it wasn't for the crisp looking backgrounds I'd put this game up there with Haze in terms of graphics :/ Human characters look ugly, gun models look really really ugly, jaggies everywhere, and some really really ugly low rez textures. Its crazy because some things look amazing but they pop out because everything around them looks like shit.

 

[rollingstart]

This thread inspired me to play a bit of Crysis again to remind myself how much better it actually was; no super high shots with poor frame rates, just what came from my modest rig. Fuck the game looks incredible. I even outputted it to my TV, the same one that I played Killzone 2 and PoP on, and it still looks far better. So 720p with settings on high ran high and close to 60 fps, no AA, still looked phenominal; 720p with settings on very high and 8 AA had it down to 30 with drops. Either one of those still looked incredible. And the 360 controller support in Crysis is really fucking awful.

RAGE is the only thing I think that can top Crysis in the future, at least for games that have been shown.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

I've been playing Gears 2 for the past few hours, and this game is a hell of a lot more beautiful than I think I initially gave it credit for. The razor hail area, through the snow, and now the underground lake, it's all pretty amazing.

This thread reminded me I hadn't bought Halo 3 yet.. so I did. Holy hell how come you 360 guys didn't complain to bungie.. this game looks like ass. If it wasn't for the crisp looking backgrounds I'd put this game up there with Haze in terms of graphics :/ Human characters look ugly, gun models look really really ugly, jaggies everywhere, and some really really ugly low rez textures. Its crazy because some things look amazing but they pop out because everything around them looks like shit.

It has some appealing environments, and an inviting general style, though. I thought the first Flood level was pretty striking.

 

[PSGames]

Time to bite the dust, fagget.

Whoa.

 

[eso76]

This thread reminded me I hadn't bought Halo 3 yet.. so I did. Holy hell how come you 360 guys didn't complain to bungie.. this game looks like ass. If it wasn't for the crisp looking backgrounds I'd put this game up there with Haze in terms of graphics :/ Human characters look ugly, gun models look really really ugly, jaggies everywhere, and some really really ugly low rez textures. Its crazy because some things look amazing but they pop out because everything around them looks like shit.

it doesn't always look horrible, and despite being technically mediocre it still menages to have a couple epic scenes. But damn, IQ really kills it. It was rather bad on my 50", tried it on my brother's projector on a 120" screen and that's the exact definition of blurry, jagged mess.
I am not sure Bungie games ever stood out from a technical point of view, but they really had to put a lot more effort in halo's "final" (my ass) chapter and x360 flagship title.
It should have been the killzone 2 of the x360 but ended up looking like some medium budget multiplatform fps.

Now, that's a problem with Microsoft first party devs; they're not really trying with their exclusives. Yes, there's Gears 1+2 and Rare games, but Forza 2 ? Halo 3 ? it's like they went the wii way and decided not to try going head to head with Ps3 exclusives, but there's a bunch of multiplatform games out there which show the console is capable of so much more.

 

[WinFonda]

For me, it's Killzone 2. It's just a beast. A mother fucking sexy beast.

 

[AKS]

This thread reminded me I hadn't bought Halo 3 yet.. so I did. Holy hell how come you 360 guys didn't complain to bungie.. this game looks like ass. If it wasn't for the crisp looking backgrounds I'd put this game up there with Haze in terms of graphics :/ Human characters look ugly, gun models look really really ugly, jaggies everywhere, and some really really ugly low rez textures. Its crazy because some things look amazing but they pop out because everything around them looks like shit.

The metal suits and a few other things look great, but much of the rest of it does not, like it's and upscaled SD game in places. Humans look comical at best. The sound and music are much more impressive than the visuals.

 

[Mohonky]

God I can't wait to see more of the Rage Engine. I wanna see how it turns out on consoles. One thing iD are good at it's getting fantastic looking engines that scale and run very well on moderate hardware. Cautiously optimistic it'll look very shit hot on consoles.

 

[McLovin]

it doesn't always look horrible, and despite being technically mediocre it still menages to have a couple epic scenes. But damn, IQ really kills it. It was rather bad on my 50", tried it on my brother's projector on a 120" screen and that's the exact definition of blurry, jagged mess.
I am not sure Bungie games ever stood out from a technical point of view, but they really had to put a lot more effort in halo's "final" (my ass) chapter and x360 flagship title.
It should have been the killzone 2 of the x360 but ended up looking like some medium budget multiplatform fps.

Now, that's a problem with Microsoft first party devs; they're not really trying with their exclusives. Yes, there's Gears 1+2 and Rare games, but Forza 2 ? Halo 3 ? it's like they went the wii way and decided not to try going head to head with Ps3 exclusives, but there's a bunch of multiplatform games out there which show the console is capable of so much more.

I actually played through the whole game before on an sd tv at my cousins house. I was just shocked when I played it on my hdtv, its flaws stand out so much more. I'm totally basing my opinion on the first hour of the game.. so my opinion might change.. but it is really ugly so far. AI seems pretty dumb too.. but the gameplay is fun. Stayed up until 1am playing mp

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

NOW A NEW CHALLENGER HAVE ENTERED THE RING

 

[soldat7]

NOW A NEW CHALLENGER HAVE ENTERED THE RING

Looks like they added a new job class.

 

[Ikuu]

Nice resolution on those shots.

 

[AltogetherAndrews]

That thing I said about Gears 2 belonging in the debate, that's not going anywhere. Holy crap @ the nexus. Now if they would only release it on PC.

 

[StuBurns]

The new FFVersusXIII trailer say's you're all wrong.

 

[godhandiscen]

Some nice screens of the new maps.

This looks incredible. However, these are not gameplay shots, much like the e-screenshots of Crysis were criticized. My GTX295 would have a hard time rendering this. GG should so something on PC. I think they are great devs when it comes to using resources.

Time to upgrade again... sigh

 

[~Devil Trigger~]

This looks incredible. However, these are not gameplay shots, much like the e-screenshots of Crysis were criticized. My GTX295 would have a hard time rendering this. GG should so something on PC. I think they are great devs when it comes to using resources.

Time to upgrade again... sigh

Killzone 2's Gameplay shots look better than the "official released" screenshot so....

 

[nib95]

Killzone 2's Gameplay shots look better than the "official released" screenshot so....

Pretty much.

---

Bullshot.

Proper thing.

---

Bullshot.

Proper thing.

 

[H_Prestige]

Killzone 2 looks horrible in pretty much every screenshot I've seen. It only looks spectacular in gifs or on a 1080p plasma.

 

[StuBurns]

Killzone 2 looks horrible in pretty much every screenshot I've seen. It only looks spectacular in gifs or on a 1080p plasma.

It's gloriously hideous.

 

[Zeliard]

Killzone 2 looks horrible in pretty much every screenshot I've seen. It only looks spectacular in gifs or on a 1080p plasma.

It applies heavy motion blur which will often blur the textures and certain objects in still shots. Not representative of the game in motion at all. Killzone 2 is definitely the best-looking console game out there, and over Gears 2 as well, which is also a visual stunner.

 

[fizzelopeguss]

Nice shadow banding on that second killzone shot, look at the crate.

[/monsier anal]

 

[shadowsdarknes]

KZ2 off screen mega post. (Not my pics) Ironically I found these on the team xbox forums.
But I don't think many people give it enough credit. I recognize that many people think it looks great, but it looks out of this world to me. Not crysis, but still awesome.

God I love this game.