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[Ingueferroque]

Honestly, this doesn't seem like much of an upgrade. It should be 60 fps.

Probably would cause issues with the animations. This is one game that wouldnt benefit from it anyway.

 

[Frumix]

Its not a port. :/

Technically every "remaster" is a port. The term for enhanced ports is marketing fluff that stuck.

 

[Wasp]

Why the fuck would they expect an option to remove the borders?

That would be an option to change the resolution of the game... it's not like the game is rendered at 1080 and they are just laying black borders over half the image... come on now...

That's exactly what The Evil Within did. Removing the borders had zero impact on performance and there was even a little wipe animation showing the borders gradually minimising after turning them off, revealing them to be nothing but black bars over the top of the image.

 

[woen]

I laugh every time complains about "cinematic borders", which is in fact the ratio used by the developers, a choice they made. It has a purpose and in video games it also means more power needed if you go from 64/27 to 16/9. Since you're not on PC, donc expect an option to "remove" the "letterbox". I surely am asking too much from people who just know how to complain and ask more, more, more, without even asking themselves why these choices have been made.

 

[rockman zx]

Wait, why are people pissed that they didn't remove the black bars like it was some sort of technical limitation, when it was how they envisioned their game?

The game was also envisioned to be played in a non-chronological order and now we can play in chronological order, so why not give people the chance to play without black bars?.

I'm far from pissed and is not a big deal, the game is IMHO great with or without black bars but unless is some "technical or gameplay" reason, I can't see why not.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Nope, the cinematic vision was the reason for the 30fps frame rate, however the black bars was to push IQ. It's a banned website so to quote:

"Not set in stone yet, but we do run 4xMSAA which looks spectacular! x800 with AA looks MUCH better than x1080 without : )" (This was a tweet).

He also mentioned that running the game at 1080p without antialiasing would require less hardware resources than 1920×800 with the edges-smoothing option enabled:

"To be clear, x800 with 4xMSAA needs more bandwidth than x1080 would, so 1080 no MS would be cheaper."

 

[c0de]

I laugh every time complains about "cinematic borders", which is in fact the ratio used by the developers, a choice they made. It has a purpose and in video games it also means more power needed if you go from 64/27 to 16/9. Since you're not on PC, donc expect an option to "remove" the "letterbox". I surely am asking too much from people who just know how to complain and ask more, more, more, without even asking themselves why these choices have been made.

What do you expect? People just liking everything publishers throw at them? People should have the right to complain, no matter whether you do or not.

 

[Dictator93]

Do you long for death whenever you go see a movie?

Movies have perfect motion blur that actually uses real information building its look (camera pans still look stuttery in 24fps film btw). Games are just guessing and smearing in a vector direction.

Even then, all animations and visuals look better at higher framerates.

But no, I do not kill myself when I go to the movies. I never go to the movies!

Probably would cause issues with the animations. This is one game that wouldnt benefit from it anyway.

Most western made games do not have this problem, so I do not think that is the reason for this being 30. Rather, the increased resolujtion and the more expensive post processing / assets eat up the 8x GPU advantage the PS4 has.

 

[Ingueferroque]

There are multiple ways of making money. One is to put a lot of effort into delivering a quality product, another is to push out a sub-par product in order to make a quick buck.

This does not look like a sub-par product.

 

[Kralamoonard]

The game was also envisioned to be played in a non-chronological order and now we can play in chronological order, so why not give people the chance to play without black bars?.

I'm far from pissed and is not a big deal, the game is IMHO great with or without black bars but unless is some "technical or gameplay" reason, I can't see why not.

Exactly this ^^

Options wouldn't hurt, I don't see what so wrong with people wanting to have a choice, especially as they've done it before to the story order which IMO is an even bigger change than black borders.

What do you expect? People just liking everything publishers throw at them? People should have the right to complain, no matter whether you do or not.

.

 

[lukeskymac]

Movies have perfect motion blur that actually uses real information building its look (camera pans still look stuttery in 24fps film btw). Games are just guessing and smearing in a vector direction.

Even then, all animations and visuals look better at higher framerates.

But no, I do not kill myself when I go to the movies. I never go to the movies!

That's a fair point.

 

[Kralamoonard]

Movies have perfect motion blur that actually uses real information building its look (camera pans still look stuttery in 24fps film btw). Games are just guessing and smearing in a vector direction.

Even then, all animations and visuals look better at higher framerates.

Most western made games do not have this problem, so I do not think that is the reason for this being 30. Rather, the increased resolution and the more expensive post processing / assets eat up the 8x GPU advantage the PS4 has.

Thank you for this. It's what I was trying to get at.

 

[Jux]

What people don't understand about the black bars is that it also impacts camera works. All cameras where setup with them. Removing them might break a lot of shots (with "off screen" broken animation or that kind of stuff for example) and would have meant a lot more work to make sure everything was all right.

 

[alexandros]

So you're not calling this product sub par? But this type of remaster is a cash grab?

Pretty much. I believe that the level of performance and visual enhancement compared to the original PS3 release is not significant enough to warrant a remaster, so cash grab. I have no opinion on the quality of the release when judged as a separate product so I can't call it sub-par. What's so confusing about that?

 

[dark10x]

Movies have perfect motion blur that actually uses real information building its look (camera pans still look stuttery in 24fps film btw). Games are just guessing and smearing in a vector direction.

I really like 24fps in the cinema or on a display with proper support for it. The TV I use supports 72hz 3:3 pulldown enabling each frame to be duplicated twice resulting in smooth motion. On many displays, 24fps simply works like "11-22-333-44-55-666" etc but at 72hz you can do "111-222-333-444" which looks great, I think.

 

[SprachBrooks]

Someone should check the credits and see if anyone assisted with the remaster.


Dishonored was a pretty poor remaster, no?

Has the Dishonored remaster been released?!

 

[Garrett Hawke]

Has the Dishonored remaster been released?!

Unfortunately

 

[Dictator93]

That's a fair point.

I still think that games should use motion blur btw. ln spite of my "negging"
lol

Spoiler

i am pretty much an obmb fetishist

There are some game engines though that actually do make motion blur kinda like film does, by "exposing". Like Source film maker, or the motion blur in dark place engine games.

I really like 24fps in the cinema or on a display with proper support for it. The TV I use supports 72hz 3:3 pulldown enabling each frame to be duplicated twice resulting in smooth motion. On many displays, 24fps simply works like "11-22-333-44-55-666" etc but at 72hz you can do "111-222-333-444" which looks great, I think.

I spend so little time on my television that I should really try out some of the Hz modes and what not...

I am curious how my TV works now that you post about the pull down duplication.

 

[FunkyDealer]

Seems like a very decent remaster in my eyes. Stable framerate, native resolution and small flourishes. I wonder how much the anti-aliasing is improved, the higher resolution will definitely help a lot though.

 

[Projectjustice]

It grants you a discount on HR if you buy it so that will likely be $19 then.



Cause there is no reason for it. They upped the graphics further instead. It was the best looking game on PS3 and ran accordingly awful on it (17 fps sometimes). 60 fps is asking for a lot.

I dont think having a last gen remaster running at 60fps is asking for a lot. The Last of Us gave us that option.

 

[plutoknight]

PS4 will grill your steaks: new feature leaks ahead of PSX

Between this and FFXV, the PS4 has the best food of all devices!

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

So did The Order have black bars for the same reason?

Spoiler

Hint: it wasn't; the developers even said it themselves that they could push image quality and graphics more with less stuff on screen whilst maintaining a sound frame rate.

Also, just curious then, why didn't Heavy Rain have black bars?

Who gives a shit what and why The Order did what it did, they're an entirely different development house. On top of that, Heavy Rain was a very experimental game in concept; pushing an aspect ratio like that in the infancy of HD resolutions would have been a clusterfuck.

Do you also get confused when Pixar releases their films in different aspect ratios? Just because their films all come from the same studio, doesn't mandate they all have the same aspect ratios. Different projects may each benefit differently from different aspect ratios for framing and compositional reasons.

Lastly, on that very page someone mentioned how people were able to remove the black bars from the original PS3 version with CFW, with no impact to performance. Indeed, the game is truly running at 16:9 with black bars being rendered over the visuals for the compositional integrity and vision of their shots, and *not* for some performance gain.

 

[Massa]

Pretty much. I believe that the level of performance and visual enhancement compared to the original PS3 release is not significant enough to warrant a remaster, so cash grab. I have no opinion on the quality of the release when judged as a separate product so I can't call it sub-par. What's so confusing about that?

When developers simply port a game from Windows to Linux or Mac OS X, do you also think that's just a cash grab?

 

[Kralamoonard]

Who gives a shit what and why The Order did what it did, they're an entirely different development house. On top of that, Heavy Rain was a very experimental game in concept; pushing an aspect ratio like that in the infancy of HD resolutions would have been a clusterfuck.

Do you also get confused when Pixar releases their films in different aspect ratios? Just because their films all come from the same studio, doesn't mandate they all have the same aspect ratios. Different projects may each benefit differently from different aspect ratios for framing and compositional reasons.

Lastly, on that very page someone mentioned how people were able to remove the black bars from the original PS3 version with CFW, with no impact to performance. Indeed, the game is truly running at 16:9 with black bars being rendered over the visuals for the compositional integrity and vision of their shots, and *not* for some performance gain.

Alright chill lol, but bear in mind the last part of your comment was for another came. The reason why I mentioned The Order was because *that* was the reason why they could allow more bells and whistles for lower performance cost. The developer himself said it.

 

[alexandros]

When developers simply port a game from Windows to Linux or Mac OS X, do you also think that's just a cash grab?

It's hard to call something a cash grab when they won't be making any cash

 

[borghe]

But that's exactly the point...we're not watching a movie we're playing a GAME where there is gamePLAY. Unlike a movie which is non-interactive, games benefit (for the reasons I mentioned above) in an increase in frame rate. Yes of course games are art, but where there is interaction, people benefit from a higher frame rate as they're interactingwith the game. Again, TB's video does a nice job at explaining that. For cutscenes? Possibly? But gameplay? Nah; high response time, less input latency and more fluid gameplay makes for a superior experience. Not that I'm bothered, as I game on consoles anyway, but playing The Order for example at 60fps compares to 30fps would mean the game PLAYS better.

I'm still calling bullshit. "latency and response" in most cases equals a 15.67ms difference in response. One would note that Wii U has often been cited as "amazing" for the gamepad screen coming in at this latency.. yet here we are calling the difference substantial enough to make a stink over? bullshit.

60fps does matter. I'll be the first to say it. Shooters? Games requiring precise controls/timing? Requiring low latency and immediate response? Yes absolutely. But it's silly to say all games (or even most games) fall into this category. On the contrary I'd say most games DON'T fall into this category. Does a board game benefit from any of that stuff? A point n click adventure game? A turn based RPG? etc.

Obviously plenty of games will benefit the higher the framerate goes. Variable high framerate displays on PC are an amazing thing for the games that truly benefit from them. But all games are not the same, and thus just like you don't need high def 3D models for every game, or 7.1 engineered audio for every game.. 60fps is hardly needed for every game, nor will it improve every game. What it CAN do though is change the way a game is perceived and feels. If you're trying to create a cinematic experience, most of us understand that cinematic "feel" to be 24fps film. The closer you get to that, the most cinematic it will feel. The further you get from it, the more "gamey" it will feel. COD? Absolutely. Story driven games like Until Dawn, QD's games, Alan Wake, etc? No thank you.

 

[Shin-Ra]

The few improved textures and replaced assets are nice, but I doubt you'd notice them unless you had each version side by side. Still great to see some additional effort.

However some scenes they've added a blury layer to. When compared to the PS3 shots I'm of the opinion that the PS3 is preferable in those scenes.

I certainly noticed it was very bare outside this house when I played originally.

 

[JumpCancel]

I certainly noticed it was very bare outside this house when I played originally.

Sure you noticed it was bare. You saw the scene and assessed it. My point was that unless you had these games together comparing shots you wouldn't notice.

̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶m̶u̶c̶h̶ ̶i̶m̶p̶r̶o̶v̶e̶d̶ ̶b̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶a̶d̶d̶i̶t̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶t̶w̶o̶ ̶w̶o̶v̶e̶n̶ ̶c̶h̶a̶i̶r̶s̶.̶

No, I'm not going to fan the flames as you guys will take that statement literally and quote every addition made in this version.

 

[Jux]

Indeed, the game is truly running at 16:9 with black bars being rendered over the visuals for the compositional integrity and vision of their shots, and *not* for some performance gain.

No. The debug setting used to remove the black bars actually changes the internal resolution.

 

[B-Dex]

The blind gamer rage at anything not 60fps or 16:9 is astounding. I never played this on PS3 despite loving Heavy Rain and so far I'm really enjoying it. Looks and sounds fantastic.

 

[Clockwork]

Man, to heck with this thread. A company releases a solid product with noticeable effort involved and it gets shit on or downplayed as nothing more than a cash grab.

Even when people detail that they did this, that, and the other to this remaster you get people thumbing their nose at this and moving the goal posts because as an artistic choice they didn't change some other things (letterboxing and frame rate).

I guess I am just sick of the faux outrage and hyperbole.

 

[Kama_1082]

Movies have perfect motion blur that actually uses real information building its look (camera pans still look stuttery in 24fps film btw). Games are just guessing and smearing in a vector direction.

Even then, all animations and visuals look better at higher framerates.

But no, I do not kill myself when I go to the movies. I never go to the movies!


Most western made games do not have this problem, so I do not think that is the reason for this being 30. Rather, the increased resolujtion and the more expensive post processing / assets eat up the 8x GPU advantage the PS4 has.

Do you want to kill yourself whenever you watch a movie?

 

[Shin-Ra]

Sure you noticed it was bare. You saw the scene and assessed it. My point was that unless you had these games together comparing shots you wouldn't notice.

What?

How did I have these games together comparing shots when the PS4 version wouldn't release for another two years?

 

[borghe]

The blind gamer rage at anything not 60fps or 16:9 is astounding. I never played this on PS3 despite loving Heavy Rain and so far I'm really enjoying it. Looks and sounds fantastic.

exactly. "it's a game. 60fps. Period." But what if they want it to be more art than game "doesn't matter. game. 60fps. stfu."

just the fact that they refuse to acknowledge any sort of gray area and completely dismiss the desires of the creators ultimately proves the argument against them. The creator wants it this way for artistic intent. "Creator is wrong." Which then makes their argument entirely impossible to take seriously.

I am curious how my TV works now that you post about the pull down duplication.

most 120/240Hz TVs first do a 3:2 pulldown, then scale it 4 or 8 times. Reason? Cost. The 3:2 pulldown DSP capabilities are dirt cheap, and then can continue to use them in all tiers of their sets. It also requires no difference in processing between 24fps and 30fps content as the DSP will work automatically.. Whereas 24fps native content at 5:5 or 10:10 would need a totally different route in signal processing than 30/60fps content. That's not to say that true 5:5 or 10:10 cadence is difficult to find.. but you do have to know to look for it ahead of time, and it will NEVER be mentioned on the box or in the material.

I always wondered why the streaming services never did 24p. I know DirecTV back in the day actually REQUIRED you to have a 24p capable set as their 1080p streams were in fact 1080p24 to improve compression and reduce stream size. The fact that this sort of thing would seem like a no brainer and yet NO ONE DOES IT should be hugely telling on how uncommon 24p support is among modern TVs.

 

[Clockwork]

What?

How did I have these games together comparing shots when the PS4 version wouldn't release for another two years?

It's a stupid argument anyway. The same could be said for any version comparison (platforms, remasters, etc).

I'm really not sure what point is trying to be made other than to disparage the new version and downplay the updates.

 

[JumpCancel]

What?

How did I have these games together comparing shots when the PS4 version wouldn't release for another two years?

You originally posted the shots comparing the two. You stated in the original you noticed how bare the scene was. Now in the PS4 version they added two chairs.

Not really sure what the point of your original post was. You noticed how bare the scene was, just like pointing out any observation like jodie wearing a dress, or it being daytime in the scene. Unless you had the shots together or somehow memorized the scene with the empty porch you wouldn't notice the difference.

It's a stupid argument anyway.

I'm really not sure what point is trying to be made other than to disparage the new version and downplay the updates.

For a remaster they couldn't do much. We'll improve a few textures, add motion blur and make a stable framerate. What else.

Oh, we'll add a few assets!

Ultimately the biggest improvements are the stable framerate and resolution bump, not to mention the ability to play the game chronologically so it makes some sense, unlike jumping all over the place which I don't understand from a design perspective, Sure its unusual, but does it add to the experience in a meaningful way?

Does the addition of a few chairs add to the experience? Not really. Pointing out they added a few chairs isn't a great argument either. Its still the same game, just suger coated and made to run adequately.

 

[Clockwork]

You originally posted the shots comparing the two. You stated in the original you noticed how bare the scene was. Now in the PS4 version they added two chairs.

Not really sure what the point of your original post was. You noticed how bare the scene was, just like pointing out any observation like jodie wearing a dress, or it being daytime in the scene. Unless you had the shots together or somehow memorized the scene with the empty porch you wouldn't notice the difference.

Does it matter? There is difference and actual effort was made to enhance this title. By all merits it is an improved product.

 

[Dictator93]

Do you want to kill yourself whenever you watch a movie?

yes, of course

my tv only plays hobbit movies on replay

 

[Shin-Ra]

You originally posted the shots comparing the two. You stated in the original you noticed how bare the scene was. Now in the PS4 version they added two chairs.

Not really sure what the point of your original post was. You noticed how bare the scene was, just like pointing out any observation like jodie wearing a dress, or it being daytime in the scene. Unless you had the shots together or somehow memorized the scene with the empty porch you wouldn't notice the difference.

I noticed it was bare when I PLAYED it originally.

 

[Kama_1082]

I still think that games should use motion blur btw. ln spite of my "negging"
lol

Spoiler

i am pretty much an obmb fetishist

There are some game engines though that actually do make motion blur kinda like film does, by "exposing". Like Source film maker, or the motion blur in dark place engine games.


I spend so little time on my television that I should really try out some of the Hz modes and what not...

I am curious how my TV works now that you post about the pull down duplication.

Your TV should automatically tune to the correct frequency when a movie is played. Some TVs don't support 24hz and use processing to fix that it becomes a mess.

 

[JumpCancel]

I noticed it was bare when I PLAYED it originally.

We're just going in circles dude. I don't think the addition is worth highlighting. I'm out.

 

[Y2Kev]

Well it looks like they added chairs, cleaned up some textures, and added shrubbery across the street. I agree you might not notice it unless you saw both side by side, but I think he's saying there's real care and effort put into this remaster to improve the experience. It's counter to the "cash grab" accusation.

 

[copelandmaster]

Has the Dishonored remaster been released?!

It's a bargain bin BF deal at Wal Mart. Must've seen like 3 copies in a return cart today.

 

[andrerobot]

When did Sony say that this game is a remaster?

Nor the Playstation blog post says it is one, the Playstation store page says nothing either, and the game itself has no "Remastered" label or something similar.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2015...-to-ps4-on-nov-24th-heavy-rain-out-next-year/

https://store.playstation.com/#!/en...wo-souls:up9000-cusa00495_00-gbeyondtwo000001

 

[Lord Error]

Most western made games do not have this problem, so I do not think that is the reason for this being 30. Rather, the increased resolujtion and the more expensive post processing / assets eat up the 8x GPU advantage the PS4 has.

If they had 16x stronger GPU, they'd just do SSAA, even better every effect etc. You know it wouldn't be 60FPS no matter what. It's Quantic Dream game

 

[Kralamoonard]

The blind gamer rage at anything not 60fps or 16:9 is astounding. I never played this on PS3 despite loving Heavy Rain and so far I'm really enjoying it. Looks and sounds fantastic.

It's not that, it's just people wanted more from a remaster regarding the frame-rate, but whatevs.

I'm still calling bullshit. "latency and response" in most cases equals a 15.67ms difference in response. One would note that Wii U has often been cited as "amazing" for the gamepad screen coming in at this latency.. yet here we are calling the difference substantial enough to make a stink over? bullshit.

60fps does matter. I'll be the first to say it. Shooters? Games requiring precise controls/timing? Requiring low latency and immediate response? Yes absolutely. But it's silly to say all games (or even most games) fall into this category. On the contrary I'd say most games DON'T fall into this category. Does a board game benefit from any of that stuff? A point n click adventure game? A turn based RPG? etc.

Obviously plenty of games will benefit the higher the framerate goes. Variable high framerate displays on PC are an amazing thing for the games that truly benefit from them. But all games are not the same, and thus just like you don't need high def 3D models for every game, or 7.1 engineered audio for every game.. 60fps is hardly needed for every game, nor will it improve every game. What it CAN do though is change the way a game is perceived and feels. If you're trying to create a cinematic experience, most of us understand that cinematic "feel" to be 24fps film. The closer you get to that, the most cinematic it will feel. The further you get from it, the more "gamey" it will feel. COD? Absolutely. Story driven games like Until Dawn, QD's games, Alan Wake, etc? No thank you.

Like I said in my post, the only game I can think of which wouldn't benefit from a 60fps increase is South Park SoT.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind 30fps games (I game on console for gods sake) I just want remasters (like I said on the Darksiders II Deathinitive Edition thread) to target 60fps. Yeah maybe in this game, B2S, it isn't as big of a deal, I can see why you'd say that, but with Alan Wake? No defnitely not; especially as a 3rd person shooter, it's actually a game I played on Steam (you can check my Steam ID -same as my GAF name- for proof if you even want) that when playing at 60fps it improved the experience for me especially as there is A LOT of shooting there.

I mean I can see why you'd say it for Until Dawn, Beyond Two Souls, I don't entirely disagree, but for a game like Alan Wake? Nah, a 3rd person shooter I put on the same level as FPS games in they benefit massively from a increased frame rate.

Does it really matter that much in the grand scheme of things for me? Nah not really, but I'm not also gonna say that it wouldn't benefit from a 60fps target. You get me?

 

[thelastcrusader]

Buying this day 1 when the physical edition comes out. Looks fucking fantastic.

 

[Guess Who]

I wonder how many film nerds complain about 21:9 movies not filling their 16:9 TV.

Spoiler

Answer: none, because film nerds understand composition.

 

[Chance Hale]

Tons of visual improvements and a steady framerate. ¡Qué desastre!

 

[johnnydrama]

I wouldn't call it a cash grab, since it looks and runs alright, but it should have been 60fps, IMO. I don't buy the whole "30fps is cinematic" bullshit.