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Big Red Button Exodus was happening during Sonic Boom development

Ferr986

Member
Really? This is SEGA, they clearly don't give a shit about the quality of anything attached to their name or IPs.

Thats not always true (see Generations, Alien:I...).

Problem is that Sega is obsessed to launch their Sonic games on November (because of Holidays sales) without even caring if the game needs more time. Same happened with 06. They rushed the fuck out of it.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
Before he talks about the pants thing, he talks about meeting with the TV crew. He doesn't say how they influence each other, he just goes straight on to the pants from there. Is there any interview that clarifies the role of the companies in this shared aspects of the Boom franchise?

All the concept art for like the characters and stuff seemed to be coming from the game end, honestly.
 

Eusis

Member
Thats not always true (see Generations, Alien:I...).

Problem is that Sega is obsessed to launch their Sonic games on November (because of Holidays sales) without even caring if the game needs more time. Same happened with 06. They rushed the fuck out of it.
Especially disheartening given some of the best Sonic games didn't follow that cycle (wasn't Sonic 3 a March release? I swear it came out in Spring anyway.) Treat it less like an annual series and more like a good Mario release really. Or if you want it yearly make sure you make damn sure you get a good first installment to iterate from, and Boom was effectively going to be that.

... And man, I'd almost think the CryEngine were cursed, but that's really more Crytek's a poorly run company and it was a poor fit for Wii U.
 
A lot of Generations' levels are some of the best designed stages in Sonic history. Nearly flawless triple tier paths that relegated platforming as a punishment for not finding shortcuts or keeping up momentum properly.
 

AniHawk

Member
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.

no way. colors had some pretty good level design and left a lot to player choice. the pacing was very well-done, and the rewards for finding rings was fantastic (more levels!). generations is less cohesive as a whole, but had higher highs.
 

MrBadger

Member
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.

Nah, I think Colours and Gens are both great games that offer gameplay that other platformers don't. They do both have a handful of bad levels, but it's nothing that completely ruins the experience. Games like 4 and Lost World are the ones I'd say are just okay, but not amazing.
 

HUELEN10

Member
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.
I'll party agree with you. sonic Colors was Sonic Unleashed for babbys, and Generations still didn't reach the greatness that was Unleashed.
 
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.

Yeah, no. Colors and Generations are legitimately great games.

A lot of Generations' levels are some of the best designed stages in Sonic history. Nearly flawless triple tier paths that relegated platforming as a punishment for not finding shortcuts or keeping up momentum properly.

This. Modern Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill in particular felt like the first time that they actually were able to somewhat translate the level design principles of the Genesis trilogy games into a 3D setting.
 

Yoshi

Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.
I absolutely disagree, they are fantastic games with well planned and executed gameplay, great level design and a lot of creativity. As I said in another thread: Generations and Unleashed are among my five favourite PS360 games.
 
This. Modern Sky Sanctuary and Seaside Hill in particular felt like the first time that they actually were able to somewhat translate the level design principles of the Genesis trilogy games into a 3D setting.

Those were probably the best levels in the game (actually, Modern Seaside Hill is probably the best level in all of 3D Sonic), but most of the other levels had their moments of brilliance. For example, realizing that I could jump on the pipes in the beginning of Modern Chemical Plant completely blew my mind.
 

Davey Cakes

Member
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.
I honestly couldn't even finish Colors. I think it's a fine game but not special. I probably had more fun with Secret Rings, interestingly enough. Maybe I just burned out on Sonic.

I've considered getting Colors DS however since I enjoyed the Sonic Rush titles.

In any case, Colors was at least good enough to break the Sonic cycle. I don't believe it's so great that it can't be replicated, however. Sega can do better.

If Nintendo can make an arguably-superior sequel to Super Mario Galaxy of all games, then Sega can make another Sonic game in line with (or better than) Colors and Generations.
 

Foffy

Banned
I'll party agree with you. sonic Colors was Sonic Unleashed for babbys, and Generations still didn't reach the greatness that was Unleashed.

Unleashed was bogged down by dreadful beatemup segments. Whatever greatness Unleashed had - and it does have some - is all but marred when that Hog of War tedium is most of the game. Colors is by far a better game because it has absolutely none of that tripe.
 

Silky

Banned
The problem is Colors and Generations aren't actually that great, they just aren't complete garbage compared to 06, Sonic 4, etc. They're not bad games, but they still aren't amazing.

Why is Sonic 4 complete garbage?

Sonic 4 is decent. Nothing more or less.

Unleashed without Werehog Stages (Project Unleashed is an amazing mod.) is a much better experience. Colors and Generations are indeed legitimately good.
 
Dude, the last Sonic released was the atrocious Lost Worlds. Come on :lol

The game is alright. Mediocre but not unolayable neither boring like this one. Generations and Color are way better but I give them a pass becuase they tried to experiment in this one and constantly patched the game even when bombed.

All the concept art for like the characters and stuff seemed to be coming from the game end, honestly.

This makes me believe that the project was not concived as a cheap tie in. I will really want to know what was the key decision/event that killed the game.

CryEngine3?
Changing to WiiU?
WiiU and Lost World bombing and Sega cutting their loses?
Simpe bad management in BRB?
 

Zubz

Banned
A lot of Generations' levels are some of the best designed stages in Sonic history. Nearly flawless triple tier paths that relegated platforming as a punishment for not finding shortcuts or keeping up momentum properly.

I know... I guess Sega didn't want to go stale when they made Lost World, but really, they should've been building off of that formula. *Sigh* 2 more years until Sonic's 25th, right? I mean, I know they said they wanted to save the Generations formula for "big moments," but I think the 25th Anniversary is as big a moment as ever! Except, maybe do DLC next time. The last game looked like it could do DLC, what with the Casino Night Zone mini-game, so I got excited for, like, a "Alternate Classic" pack with Stardust Speedway-proper, Ice Cap Zone, and Panic Puppet Zone, with Classic Knuckles as a Rival and Giant Metal Sonic as a boss.

Generations sold well enough that I thought it'd work. Heck, they might even do levels for games that felt like they had more/something better to offer (Like giving Adventure a more iconic level, like Lost World or Sky Deck, rather than a 5th City level). If they do something like that this time around, I'm just putting it out there that, barring a severe lack of quality, I'd probably get all of it.
 
Why is Sonic 4 complete garbage?

Sonic 4 is decent. Nothing more or less.

Unleashed without Werehog Stages (Project Unleashed is an amazing mod.) is a much better experience. Colors and Generations are indeed legitimately good.
Hell given more polish and the Werehog stuff could have been better. The actual concept is still dumb as hell though.

I don't own a WiiU so I haven't played Lost World. I have a 3DS but ever since they stopped making dedicated handheld games they have been getting worse on those platforms. Even Generations on 3DS was "okay" all it made me do is want these stages for my PC version of Generations :/. So I wouldn't play that version.

What is so bad about Lost World? (The only other recent console Sonic I never played was Black Knight so I'm well versed.)
 

Eusis

Member
Unleashed was bogged down by dreadful beatemup segments. Whatever greatness Unleashed had - and it does have some - is all but marred when that Hog of War tedium is most of the game. Colors is by far a better game because it has absolutely none of that tripe.
I actually kind of enjoyed those bits in a mindless way, but yeah at best they were basically just filler to get through for the juicy parts of the game.

EDIT: Also the post above. The foundation needed some tweaking (for example I'd absolutely suspend the limited lives in those stages and segments) but they had reasonably solid gameplay. Probably the best thing to have done other than removing limited lives was to just crank the pace up and make it feel more like I'm running through an Ys game than a somewhat sluggish God of War, because that kind of fast paced adrenaline rush action would be more appropriate with a Sonic game anyway.
 
All this talk makes me wanna try out Generations. I installed it on my PC 2 days ago but I have never tried it.

You should. What a great game. I don't care for the final boss, but I really enjoyed the game overall. For the record, I don't like any of the post-Mega Drive sonic games (bar maybe Sonic Rush), apart from Generations.
 

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
This makes me believe that the project was not concived as a cheap tie in. I will really want to know what was the key decision/event that killed the game.

CryEngine3?
Changing to WiiU?
WiiU and Lost World bombing and Sega cutting their loses?
Simpe bad management in BRB?

Obviously a mixture of all the above, but it was just never going to be a good game anyway. A new start-up comprised of people leaving already established studios to make a tie-in game exactly like they'd done time and time again, regardless of whether it had gameplay even approaching Sonic. The type to think paving over that failing with short "THIS IS SONIC, RIGHT, LOOPS, YEAH?" sections. All while learning entirely new editing and game creation software doubly ill-fitted to the eventual only console of release. Mad really.

Also, Sega can't really pay well anymore, which is bluntly what gets you a better game. Bigger QA pool, money that attracts higher talent, and so on. Sonic Team has the luxury of having made this stuff endlessly for years so they don't even start from the "WHAT THE FUCK IS A SONIC?" point that BRB did.

Honestly, a more rational effort would have been to just re-skin Sonic Dash with Boom models, and release it as a cheap title across smartphones, 3DS, and hell, maybe even an e-Shop WiiU release. You still advertise your show, its not gonna be the brand damaging shitshow these extended "epic RPG" types have always been for them and its done on a budget more befitting the company of now.

I guess Sega West just believed their own hype and that Sonic Boom was going to be the next huge thing and pesky things like "quality of game" would be ignored by the rabid public in the thralls of a Sonic-mania not seen since the 90's.
 

Effect

Member
What is so bad about Lost World? (The only other recent console Sonic I never played was Black Knight so I'm well versed.)

Is Sonic Lost World amazing? I would say no from my limited time with it but it is in no way shape or form a bad game. It's decent if not good.

I still remember when the demo came out seeing the videos and complaints of those that played the game. Complaints how they couldn't even finish the level for example and going on how bad it was and even looked. I loaded the demo and blazed through the demo level with no problem and maybe died once or twice due to missing a jump. That always made me feel that your opinion on the game depended on if you got the controls. Why one would have problems with the controls is debatable. Either people are inept overall and don't have a lot of experience with 3D platformers or they simply have bad timing for jumps or can't read instructions. Either of which are fine. Everyone has a different skill level. However there were some complaints and videos put out there at the time that lead me to believe that some people were just lying their asses off about how the game controlled. Purposefully making the game look worse then it was for some reason. None of it made any sense compared to what I played first hand. That sent up a red flag for me right away. I remember that same level of BS being put forward by some people back when it came to Wii games regarding how they controlled. Refusal to learn a game's controls and outright lying as to how they handled.

The level of complaints regarding Sonic Lost World I've always felt should be taken with a grain of salt and one should play the demo for themselves and pay attention to it.

Sonic Boom is a disappointing. I wasn't crazy about a 4 character game like this but I was willing to be open minded. I enjoyed Sonic Colors a lot. I enjoyed the limited time I spent with Sonic Lost World. So was curious. I hate that this is the last game of the deal Nintendo had with Sega for Sonic games. On another note I would say Sonic and the Secret Rings is an interesting experiment. I didn't like it to much in the end but found it interesting.
 
Is Sonic Lost World an amazing? I would say no from my limited time with it but it is in no way shape or form a bad game. It's decent if not good.

I still remember when the demo came out seeing the videos and complaints of those that played the game. Complaints how they couldn't even finish the level for example and going on how bad it was and even looked. I loaded the demo and blazed through the demo level with no problem and maybe have died due to missing a jump. That always made me feel that your opinion on the game depended on if you got the controls. Why one would have problems with the controls is debatable. Either people are inept over all and don't have a lot of experience with 3D platformers or they simply have bad timing for jumps or can't read instructions. Either of which are fine. Everyone has a different skill level. However there were some complaints and videos put out there at the time that lead me to believe that some people were just lying their asses off about how the game controlled. Purposefully making the game looked worse then it was for some reason. None of it made any sense compared to what I played first hand. That sent up a red flag for me right away. I remember that same level of BS being put forward by some people back when it came to Wii games regarding how they controlled. Refusal to learn a game's controls and outright lying as to how they handled.

The level of complaints regarding Sonic Lost World I've always felt should be taken with a grain of salt and one should play the demo for themselves and pay attention to it.
Thanks for the reply. The only video I ever saw of it was Giant Bomb's quick look of it. I thought it was just Brad being bad at the game but watching it more I honestly think people complaining about the controls ended being more about the perspective. I saw some speed run videos a couple of weeks ago and I would argue that its partly the camera too. I dunno, I would have to play it myself to pinpoint what it is but only going by the videos I have seen it could be the camera or perspective. The actual level design seemed great.
 
What is so bad about Lost World? (The only other recent console Sonic I never played was Black Knight so I'm well versed.)
It appears to be rushed to launch before Super Mario 3D World, although not to the level of, say, 2k6. While there were some major symptoms of that before the patch (most notably a bunch of mostly harmless glitches), after applying it the thing that remains most visible is a reduction of quality of level design roughly halfway through the game. There's also a bunch of other, minor problems. How would they affect you is a hard thing to guess.
 

Krejlooc

Banned
Is Sonic Lost World amazing? I would say no from my limited time with it but it is in no way shape or form a bad game. It's decent if not good.

I still remember when the demo came out seeing the videos and complaints of those that played the game. Complaints how they couldn't even finish the level for example and going on how bad it was and even looked. I loaded the demo and blazed through the demo level with no problem and maybe have died due to missing a jump. That always made me feel that your opinion on the game depended on if you got the controls. Why one would have problems with the controls is debatable. Either people are inept over all and don't have a lot of experience with 3D platformers or they simply have bad timing for jumps or can't read instructions. Either of which are fine. Everyone has a different skill level. However there were some complaints and videos put out there at the time that lead me to believe that some people were just lying their asses off about how the game controlled. Purposefully making the game looked worse then it was for some reason. None of it made any sense compared to what I played first hand. That sent up a red flag for me right away. I remember that same level of BS being put forward by some people back when it came to Wii games regarding how they controlled. Refusal to learn a game's controls and outright lying as to how they handled.

The level of complaints regarding Sonic Lost World I've always felt should be taken with a grain of salt and one should play the demo for themselves and pay attention to it.

Sonic Boom is a disappointing. I wasn't crazy about a 4 character game like this but I was willing to be open minded. I enjoyed Sonic Colors a lot. I enjoyed the limited time I spent with Sonic Lost World. So was curious. I hate that this is the last game of the deal Nintendo had with Sega for Sonic games. On another note I would say Sonic and the Secret Rings is an interesting experiment. I didn't like it to much in the end but found it interesting.

I remember, during the generation days, watching one fervent hater post in another thread about shameful gaming confessions that he couldn't do Ryu's Hadouken in any street fighter game because the motion was too complex.

Then you had IGN's video review of the sonic unleashed where the guy is talking about the game being riddled with unavoidable bottomless pits, and the accompanying video showed him slowly walking up to a pit with a boost pad right before it. You were supposed to run onto the boost pad which would shoot you over the pit - all you had to do was hold right and there was no way to fuck it up. He, again very slowly, walked up to the boost pad, carefully jumped over it, then walked directly into the obvious pit.

scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjyWXiZrSlQ#t=1m20s
 

narton

Member

TimmiT

Member
What is so bad about Lost World? (The only other recent console Sonic I never played was Black Knight so I'm well versed.)

The game's controls, while far from terrible, felt a bit too scripted when it comes to parkour. For example: it doesn't feel like you have enough control over Sonic's wall run. That being said, even with those controls, the first half of the game was still pretty good. There's generally no need to use the wall run much unless you want to find red rings or go through a certain alternate path, but even then it's not really game breaking. Just somewhat uncomfortable to use.

The main problem though is more the design of about half of the levels, particularly in the second half of the game. The second half has a lot more gimmicky levels that aren't really all that fun and also don't mesh well with the more normal stages in the game. It also re-uses assets from previous worlds in the second half and it gets frustratingly hard. It feels like while the game is polished, they didn't have enough time to properly design half of the game. Making it a game that hits just as much as it misses and feels unfocused.

There's also other stuff like the bosses being too easy, not being able to replay stages without having to go against the stage's boss, it being an entirely different game from Colors and Generations which means not everyone who liked those games would enjoy Lost World. Also the story, while not as bad as in Sonic 2006 or Shadow the Hedgehog, was kinda bad in comparison to Colors and Generations. Both of which had stories that didn't amount to much more than jokes that are drawn out so much that they're just plain unfunny.

By the way, one of the people who got fired was Christian Senn, who also happened to be involved with Sonic X-Treme. Another failed attempt by a western studio to make a regular Sonic game, except that one was never officially released. The development behind that game was seemingly worse than for Sonic Boom though, as it involved people almost dying because of stress.
 

Azure J

Member
Hell given more polish and the Werehog stuff could have been better. The actual concept is still dumb as hell though.

I don't own a WiiU so I haven't played Lost World. I have a 3DS but ever since they stopped making dedicated handheld games they have been getting worse on those platforms. Even Generations on 3DS was "okay" all it made me do is want these stages for my PC version of Generations :/. So I wouldn't play that version.

What is so bad about Lost World? (The only other recent console Sonic I never played was Black Knight so I'm well versed.)

I kinda wish if I could sticky my posts on Lost World every time I see GAF bring it up. The problem is that the game came after three takes on one particular design that led to two modern classics in the form of Colors and Unleashed only to completely toss out the previous design and go in a far more abstracted direction. Said direction has also been criticized for being too similar to that of the Mario Galaxy games in its handling of level design (basically it "looks" too much like Galaxy and inspires thoughts of being a straight rip job to some folks), the "nerfing" of the extreme roller coaster speed of the previous titles, the uninspired use of power ups that made one of the two classics (Colors) an amazing "flash in the dark" out of nowhere for bringing interesting multi-tiered level design back to the franchise, and some mechanics that while good in theory leave much to be desired when actually using them.

In all reality, if Sega better consolidates the ideas of the Unleashed - Colors - Generations trio (Boosting, drifting & quick step) with a better execution of the ideas in Lost World (particularly its level design full of pipes, slopes, funnels and rotating surfaces & the parkour mechanics), that would probably be the single best shot the series has of producing an entry that goes beyond "good/great for a Sonic game" to something that could universally be considered excellent.
 
I don't want to quote everyone but, I read everyone's replies to me. I need to go see these later levels of lost world because I thought the first world seemed okay despite it looking more like poor mans Mario Galaxy than Sonic Colors ever did (Funny since people called it that when it was released.)I dislike gimmick as hell levels as it is and only like them rarely.

Had no clue about the parkour stuff. Even though Sonic is made to run, at the speeds he should feel like he is going, that doesn't sound too fun. Shame about the sense of speed. Generations, although not matching Unleashed, had a good sense of speed as did Colors. Shame that they didn't continue that. Bosses have not been challenging to me since Secret Rings and that's probably because of the controls, well mostly, the Elrazor fight took some serious timing.

I know they like each Sonic game to be unique but from what I read from you all this is what I thought Colors was going to be when it was announced, ended up being way better than that though. Shame, if I get a WiiU I might still play it. This seems like something I want to analyze.
 
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