The right has been crafting these narratives for longer than the last election season and did it without any "help" from the Left. This has been their strategy for far longer than Milo has been on the scene.
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Bill Maher on bringing Milo back, Le Penn, Vaccinations, Islam.....
- Thread starter Crossing Eden
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The right has been crafting these narratives for longer than the last election season and did it without any "help" from the Left. This has been their strategy for far longer than Milo has been on the scene.
Indeed. Hate crimes have spiked since Trump has been elected, even though Trump himself has not been directly involved in one. Words matter. Obviously the influence of Trump is much greater than Maher, but Maher pulls a lot of viewers. Racism and bigotry isn't propped up by loud bigotry. It's propped up by everyone else not caring, or thinking we've already done enough, or that words don't matter. It's propped up by people who refuse to listen to minorities because of order and convenience and they've "never this or that". It's propped up by people who give others who do and say shitty things a pass, because "oh they didn't mean it" or "oh, that's not ACTUALLY racist". It's propped up by people who continually give bigoted views a loud platform, especially when these views aren't challenged. Maher aids in all of this.
Raven117
Gold Member
Please refer back to my posts, and if you still think I don't know what Free Speech is, then Id be more than happy to explain.
GameAddict411
Member
Yeah, and people were defending him on the other thread and how not accepting his apology was not a good thing. Well, this is the reason why people were skeptical of his apology. He is an asshole and always been asshole.
What can't they say here that they can in America?
andthebeatgoeson
Junior Member
Anti vaccine? That's like a siren call for the ignorant. Yeah, i haven't watched him in awhile sure to his islamophobic views and that'll seal the deal.
Islamophobia happening in this country when there are 3 million Muslims in this country is crazy. But since they are mostly Black it's cool.
Islamophobia happening in this country when there are 3 million Muslims in this country is crazy. But since they are mostly Black it's cool.
cartographer
Member
The dating thing gets stranger the more I think about it.
1) Maher works in the entertainment industry, an industry where Maggie Gyllenhaal was deemed "too old" to play opposite a man 18 years her senior. His industry constantly reinforces imagery of older men being romantic with younger women.
2) Men simply just don't get the same level of scrutiny on their romantic lives that women do, and certainly get more social freedom to date younger partners. Clooney before he remarried would just get mild jokes, if that. Same with DiCaprio now. And even ignoring celebrities, it's far more likely for am older woman and younger partner relationship to be called out as abnormal than an older male and younger partner. On top of that, society treats older men as often more desirable, getting better with age etc. He's somehow warped this into being a victim.
I'm half expecting him to say that whites face the real racism, too.
1) Maher works in the entertainment industry, an industry where Maggie Gyllenhaal was deemed "too old" to play opposite a man 18 years her senior. His industry constantly reinforces imagery of older men being romantic with younger women.
2) Men simply just don't get the same level of scrutiny on their romantic lives that women do, and certainly get more social freedom to date younger partners. Clooney before he remarried would just get mild jokes, if that. Same with DiCaprio now. And even ignoring celebrities, it's far more likely for am older woman and younger partner relationship to be called out as abnormal than an older male and younger partner. On top of that, society treats older men as often more desirable, getting better with age etc. He's somehow warped this into being a victim.
I'm half expecting him to say that whites face the real racism, too.
DontBeThatGuy
Member
Yep. It was a case of Maher preaching to the choir while punching down in an disingenuously (and repetitive) manner. It was too... easy, and boring. I thought less of him after that. (also an atheist, so I was looking forward to it at the time)
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
Deny the Holocaust for one.
People like Milo are roaches, they are going to find ways to propagate their ideology regardless of what other people do. It would do well to have larger conversations about the actual pros/cons between letting your enemy dictate your tactics.
Me, personally? I don't let people like Milo or the alt-right shape my own actions. That's giving them too much power. But the issue is how much we value those susceptible to Milo's views, and whether or not their base preconceptions would have driven them to that side, with or without Milo.
Trump and the GOP, for example, are set out to undo everything Obama did. His whole election is a response to Obama. If Obama didn't do those things or get elected, would Trump have happened? Would the GOP not find more ways to enact it's policy? This is why I believe in steadfast adherence to one's values and an admonishment of those who would seek to marginalize groups of people in every occasion. Because the moment I play by their rules, I'm undermining my own efforts.
Obviously you are free to disagree, but just my thoughts
Dude Abides
Banned
Polio infection rates go up, polio infection rates go down, can't explain that.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Fair enough.
Milo does not deserve a platform and Bill Maher isn't an ally.
It's funny to people constantly apologizing for the rise of hate speech and demagoguery under the idea of unrestricted speech, however. The most important thing is to talk it out and come to an understanding with bigots and racists, not to protect those of us in this country who are the most vulnerable. Mostly because the majority of people don't care about us, and that includes "liberals". Understanding that was both painful and enlightening.
It's a pipe dream, but I hope I live long enough to see what happens when the dominant position is reversed.
TestOfTide
Banned
I am on your side and agree with almost everything you said, but I wouldn't call Trump's Election a response to Obama so much as a response to Hillary.
And that's not me blaming Hillary, but rather saying that a very significant chunk of Trump voters were literally only voting for Trump as an antiHillary vote because they bought into all he antiHillary propaganda.
excelsiorlef
Member
Canada banned the Westboro Baptist Church for example
Hate speech laws exist in those countries where none exist in the US
Holocaust denialism is illegal in Germany where it is not in the US
These are some examples.
Muppet of a Man
Member
He's not a true social liberal or progressive. He's a left leaning libertarian. That's what people don't understand about him and why he's always seemingly stirring the pot with his rhetoric.
metalslimer
Member
It would be one thing if Bill destroyed Milo while he was on but he let him propagate his transphobic trash against a community already hurt by misconceptions and lies. The defense of this piece of shit still annoys me and how far does he have to go to lose some of you. Republicans have been crucified for less than the shit he has said
And no please stop saying Bill is a libertarian when so much of what he believes in goes against all it's principles. He's just an all around asshole.
And no please stop saying Bill is a libertarian when so much of what he believes in goes against all it's principles. He's just an all around asshole.
excelsiorlef
Member
He also witnessed him accuse two black men of having low IQ and still can't wait to bring him back on.
I would retort that the swath of Obama-->Trump voters in rust belt states is a significant factor. I would also argue that Hillary is Obama, Obama is Hillary. In many ways they have their differences but in others many similarities that struck to a core of voters who voted Dem in 08/12
Edit: And as an addendum, Obama himself is Bill, Bill is Obama. People just have a distaste for their brand of politics and Obama's blackness contributed to it boiling over.
Those people didn't just start hating Hillary during the election. She has faced a smear campaign from the Right since the 90's. That and this election is very much a reaction to Obama. Trump basically ran on the exact opposite of what Obama did.
I think people give too much importance to clowns like bill maher.
The guy has all sorts of crazy views but he's a comedian. A clown, basically. Not meant to be taken seriously. What's good about his show is the people he invites and the conversations they have.
Bill isn't creating a movement or trying to be anyones role model. Honestly, he could be gone tomorrow. Who cares. I just hope the producers on the show continue making it with the same quality of guests and conversations. We are not getting this kind of interaction on Colberts show..
The guy has all sorts of crazy views but he's a comedian. A clown, basically. Not meant to be taken seriously. What's good about his show is the people he invites and the conversations they have.
Bill isn't creating a movement or trying to be anyones role model. Honestly, he could be gone tomorrow. Who cares. I just hope the producers on the show continue making it with the same quality of guests and conversations. We are not getting this kind of interaction on Colberts show..
Raven117
Gold Member
Thanks for reading my prior posts...but lets get to yours, which is entirely more interesting and relevant than mine.
You raise an interesting point with "Platform." There is no question that just 50 years ago...to give speech a platform you had to really want it. You had to write in newspapers, try and get on TV, write a newsletter and have distribution lists, give speeches...It was hard to have a real platform.
Now...its as simply as typing a few words, clicking a few buttons...sent to the right people...and boom...you are now have a platform much more readily assessible to spew whatever nonsense one wants. We as a society have yet to truly get a handle on this.
I think its a tricky subject as I do believe there is some value in discussing and debating in some instances...and others not to. I think with professional contrarians, no, it does nothing.
I couldn't quite follow your middle point, but is truly a difficult thing to address.
Trump's victory was so narrow that changing almost any single factor would have likely changed the outcome. I'd say both of you are right on your factors.
TestOfTide
Banned
I'm saying there were the anti-Obama Trump voters you are talking about, but there were also the Obama-Trump voters who literally only voted for Trump because they bought into all the antiHillary bullshit (which again I don't blame Hillary for) and that without those "anyone but Hillary" voters, Trump would have easily lost.
Like, yes to political junkies like you and I Obama and Hillary are very similar, but there were A LOT of voters out that honestly, TRULY, still liked Obama, but fell for the GOP's successful smear campaign against Hillary. That wasn't MOST Trump voters, but without those "anyone but Hillary" voters Trump would have easily lost.
Does that make sense?
I don't want to let this further derail though so if you have further questions you can PM me.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
That's how I feel.
I like Maher's show. But the show's appeal isn't because of Maher or his views, which are frequently silly. Its about the discussion it creates between guests.
I don't think there's a show without Maher. Not to say that someone else couldn't do it, but I think the show would die with him were he canned or resigned.
I disagree. Truth is Bill is getting old. This show could be a lot better with a different host. Jon Stewart is available.... Larry Willmore could do it. Sarah Silverman.
We just need an entertainer who can debate or at least moderate.
Jzero
Member
I used to like him years ago since he was always shitting on Christianity.
Alexander DeLarge
Member
You quit watching after he had Milo on? You do realize Ann Coulter is a regular, right?
I mean, technically Milo was right...we are involved in a disproportionate amount of sex crimes. As victims. Which he purposefully avoided to label us as degenerates.
Guy doesn't deserve a platform and Maher is scum for letting it slide
Mighty Chin
Banned
I like Bill Maher. I don't agree 100% with him but why should I. I'm pretty sure I could probably find something that Donald Trump I agree on.
excelsiorlef
Member
I'm okay with Maher going away. I've stood by as a loyal listener to the podcast for years, and while I often agree with him, he is seeming more and more out of touch lately. That shit with the author last episode about how nobody is an adult anymore because they enjoy comic books and all that really made him sound like a confused old man who is upset he doesn't follow pop culture anymore.
Prince of Space
Banned
Maybe they can bleach each other's assholes.
Messofanego
Banned
Bill Maher is an antivaxxer loonie.
He makes good points backed with reasoning. I don't agree with everything but I agree with a lot
Hitler liked dogs, I like dogs. This wasn't nearly as smart as you thought it was.
Maybe you and Trump have the same favorite color? So what?
excelsiorlef
Member
Hard to believe you'd make this claim in this thread that demonstrably shows frequently otherwise
plagiarize
Banned
And this is why I called the racist joke the final straw.
HBO should dump this chump.
HBO should dump this chump.
FlutterPuffs
Member
He tells it like it is.
So I take it you'll be watching then?
finowns
Member
I imagine this interview was done before. I also imagine the tone would be a bit different if he hadn't said the n-word
First, look at this post. Then look at the thread title:
What are the odds that Mighty Chin read more than two words of the title before posting? This sort of thing seems to happen a lot in these kinds of threads.
Prince of Space
Banned
Only if HBO advertises it as a "~Very Special Episode~ of Real Time with Bill Maher you won't want to miss" to highlight how meaningful it will be.
John Rabbit
Banned
The point is we need to talk to Bill about his economic anxiety.