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Bill O'Reilly mocks Rep. Maxine Waters, distracted by her "James Brown wig"

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breakfuss

Member
Instead of shouting a dissenting opinion down perhaps talk with people in a non-condescending manner? Otherwise this just reinforces the echo chamber. I think there's genuine room for intepretation here. We all know what he said is wrong but 'why' is debatable.
 

rjinaz

Member
No debate allowed! It has been deemed racist, now all must literally shhhh!

I think it could be interpreted either way.

I mean what is there to debate here? It's an old lady haircut that's common. Yet somehow the way she looked manages to amuse him enough he'd have a laugh about it along with other people. You can't really be more blatantly racist.
 

Deepwater

Member
Instead of shouting a dissenting opinion down perhaps talk with people in a non-condescending manner? Otherwise this just reinforces the echo chamber. I think there's genuine room for intepretation here. We all know what he said is wrong but 'why' is debatable.

sir, this is an online forum, ain't no shouting. It's all text dawg.
 
Instead of shouting a dissenting opinion down perhaps talk with people in a non-condescending manner? Otherwise this just reinforces the echo chamber. I think there's genuine room for intepretation here. We all know what he said is wrong but 'why' is debatable.

Multiple people engaged him with why it's racist and he didn't meet them halfway.

The rest is nature taking its course. He just wants to hardheadedly cape for some stupid racist shit that a stupid old racist said because it's important to establish that he doesn't think something is racist. They weren't interested in the why it is racist.
 

Deepwater

Member
whether something is "racist" is not something to be negotiated interracially. A lot of people think otherwise.

Just like men shouldn't be the arbiters of what is and isn't sexist.
 
Instead of shouting a dissenting opinion down perhaps talk with people in a non-condescending manner? Otherwise this just reinforces the echo chamber. I think there's genuine room for intepretation here. We all know what he said is wrong but 'why' is debatable.

It's really not fucking debatable at all. If you disparage a black woman and discount her opinion because of the way her hair looks that's called being a fucking racist (and misogynist).
 

UCBooties

Member
Of course, it was a dick move designed to tear down this one woman. A really cheap shot.

I agree that it should be condemned and I have done so but I'm just curious about the racism accusations. Not in an attempt to defend O'Reilly but for my own understanding. If what he said is racist and I don't perceive it to be then that shows a deficiency in my own understanding in some way that I want to fix.

I think there's an important key to understanding why this is viewed as racist. Hopefully this will help:

Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly used the appearance of individual black people as an excuse to ignore or invalidate their opinions, just as he has here. This is a common racist tactic and it uses outward signifiers of blackness to justify shaming, silencing, or marginalizing black individuals or black communities at large. Bill O'Reily has made the case repeatedly that blacks are unemployable because of face tattoos or common modes of dress. You will often see this attitude arise when people refuse to take a black person seriously because of their name, or seemingly well-meaning people say things like, "why would you name your child that? It's just going to make things harder..." It feeds into the myth that black fashion, black hair-styles, and black cultural signifiers make a person less worthy of respect or even attention.

So in this situation you have Bill O'Reilly dismissing a US Congressperson, claiming that he could not even be bothered to listen to what she was saying, because she has hair that reminds him of a black R&B singer. It's a common line of racist attack and it puts forth the argument that she is unworthy of attention or respect because of something about her appearance that is coded to her blackness. This is textbook dog-whistle racism and you can see plenty of people in this thread bending over backwards to take him at face-value when this being a racist attack falls well within his own patterns of behavior and larger tactics used to silence and ignore blacks. Dog-whistle racism is all about deniability and taking advantage of the fact that white moderates want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall for it.
 

Skilletor

Member
Instead of shouting a dissenting opinion down perhaps talk with people in a non-condescending manner? Otherwise this just reinforces the echo chamber. I think there's genuine room for intepretation here. We all know what he said is wrong but 'why' is debatable.

Why should I have anything but condescension for somebody defending a racist fuck? There is no room for interpretation. He's a racist. What he said was racist. If you're defending a racist saying racist shit, then fuck off.

Other people might have the patience to try and enlighten people that defend racists, but I don't. The increase in racist shit happening has depleted my patience and I don't intend to refill it.
 

BajiBoxer

Banned
But Bill O' Reilly didn't say every black woman with that hairstyle looks like James Brown.



Like I said, I'm not saying Bill O' Reilly isn't racist. I'm saying what he said today wasn't racist.

Not sure why you would think that. Source and context certainly matter with just about every racist thing someone says. He's not telling a one off joke like a stand up comedian would. He's comenting on her looks in this way because she's a black woman he's trying to discredit through uncalled for insults.

As for her hair, I don't immediately think James Brown. It a vague resemblence, but it's a fairly standard fashionable ladies hairstyle.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Bill is one of the last people who should be mocking others' physical appearance and not expect some blowback. Glass houses, etc etc.
 

Baraka in the White House

2-Terms of Kombat
I think there's an important key to understanding why this is viewed as racist. Hopefully this will help:

Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly used the appearance of individual black people as an excuse to ignore or invalidate their opinions, just as he has here. This is a common racist tactic and it uses outward signifiers of blackness to justify shaming, silencing, or marginalizing black individuals or black communities at large. Bill O'Reily has made the case repeatedly that blacks are unemployable because of face tattoos or common modes of dress. You will often see this attitude arise when people refuse to take a black person seriously because of their name, or seemingly well-meaning people say things like, "why would you name your child that? It's just going to make things harder..." It feeds into the myth that black fashion, black hair-styles, and black cultural signifiers make a person less worthy of respect or even attention.

So in this situation you have Bill O'Reilly dismissing a US Congressperson, claiming that he could not even be bothered to listen to what she was saying, because she has hair that reminds him of a black R&B singer. It's a common line of racist attack and it puts forth the argument that she is unworthy of attention or respect because of something about her appearance that is coded to her blackness. This is textbook dog-whistle racism and you can see plenty of people in this thread bending over backwards to take him at face-value when this being a racist attack falls well within his own patterns of behavior and larger tactics used to silence and ignore blacks. Dog-whistle racism is all about deniability and taking advantage of the fact that white moderates want[i/] to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall for it.


Damned good post.
 
I completely dislike Bill O' Reilly, and he's undoubtedly said or implied racist things in the past, and I don't agree with pretty much anything he says...

But how is this racist? How is making fun of someone's hair racist?

Honestly, her hair DOES kind of look like James Brown's:

I'm not saying Bill O' Reilly isn't a racist. He probably is. What I'm saying is I don't see how what he said today was racist. It's mean spirited, childish, and dickish in nature, but not racist in my eyes.

THERE

IS

A

DEFENSE

FORCE

FOR

EVERYTHING
 

Majine

Banned
foxnews-racist-simpsons2.jpg

There was no fixing needed.
 

Slayven

Member
I think there's an important key to understanding why this is viewed as racist. Hopefully this will help:

Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly used the appearance of individual black people as an excuse to ignore or invalidate their opinions, just as he has here. This is a common racist tactic and it uses outward signifiers of blackness to justify shaming, silencing, or marginalizing black individuals or black communities at large. Bill O'Reily has made the case repeatedly that blacks are unemployable because of face tattoos or common modes of dress. You will often see this attitude arise when people refuse to take a black person seriously because of their name, or seemingly well-meaning people say things like, "why would you name your child that? It's just going to make things harder..." It feeds into the myth that black fashion, black hair-styles, and black cultural signifiers make a person less worthy of respect or even attention.

So in this situation you have Bill O'Reilly dismissing a US Congressperson, claiming that he could not even be bothered to listen to what she was saying, because she has hair that reminds him of a black R&B singer. It's a common line of racist attack and it puts forth the argument that she is unworthy of attention or respect because of something about her appearance that is coded to her blackness. This is textbook dog-whistle racism and you can see plenty of people in this thread bending over backwards to take him at face-value when this being a racist attack falls well within his own patterns of behavior and larger tactics used to silence and ignore blacks. Dog-whistle racism is all about deniability and taking advantage of the fact that white moderates want[i/] to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall for it.


Flames
 

rjinaz

Member
I think there's an important key to understanding why this is viewed as racist. Hopefully this will help:

Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly used the appearance of individual black people as an excuse to ignore or invalidate their opinions, just as he has here. This is a common racist tactic and it uses outward signifiers of blackness to justify shaming, silencing, or marginalizing black individuals or black communities at large. Bill O'Reily has made the case repeatedly that blacks are unemployable because of face tattoos or common modes of dress. You will often see this attitude arise when people refuse to take a black person seriously because of their name, or seemingly well-meaning people say things like, "why would you name your child that? It's just going to make things harder..." It feeds into the myth that black fashion, black hair-styles, and black cultural signifiers make a person less worthy of respect or even attention.

So in this situation you have Bill O'Reilly dismissing a US Congressperson, claiming that he could not even be bothered to listen to what she was saying, because she has hair that reminds him of a black R&B singer. It's a common line of racist attack and it puts forth the argument that she is unworthy of attention or respect because of something about her appearance that is coded to her blackness. This is textbook dog-whistle racism and you can see plenty of people in this thread bending over backwards to take him at face-value when this being a racist attack falls well within his own patterns of behavior and larger tactics used to silence and ignore blacks. Dog-whistle racism is all about deniability and taking advantage of the fact that white moderates want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall for it.

Very well said.
 

breakfuss

Member
whether something is "racist" is not something to be negotiated interracially. A lot of people think otherwise.

Just like men shouldn't be the arbiters of what is and isn't sexist.

Alright, well lets assume what you're saying is even fair or reasonable...what about the black posters here who may not see it as you do?

I don't think personal disparagement has any place on these shows, honestly, but I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge how I mindlessly laugh when it's launched at a politician I don't agree with. Now that it's a Black democrat being attacked I'm suddenly going to get all sanctimonious and claim it's racist?

Y'all could be 100% right about his comments and likely are considering the racially-charged shit he's spewed before. I guess I just didn't see her hairstyle as an exclusIisvey black one though. White women rock that, too. Now if she had been working with something natural I'd be more inclined to agree.
 
Masterful deflection.

"Once everyone's talking about my shitty comments on this woman's appearance, I don't have to actually address her statement."

Stop getting played, ya'll.

Edit: O'Reilly is obviously racist. But he's using his casual racism here as a tool, to avoid tackling actual issues.
 

Bladelaw

Member
This is right up there with the bullshit about Michelle Obama having "man arms". Fuck off with that nonsense.

The worst though is the complete dismissal of what she said. Sho_Nuff82 is spot on.
 

Flo_Evans

Member
This is tone deaf and you know it.

O'Reily went to my friend's all boys catholic school in Long Island where their mantra was raising "good catholic men". Nothing was learned.

I was curious because I had never heard that term and it has nothing to do with hair. Did he link the wrong article?
 
Masterful deflection.

"Once everyone's talking about my shitty comments on this woman's appearance, I don't have to actually address her statement."

Stop getting played, ya'll.

Edit: O'Reilly is obviously racist. But he's using his casual racism here as a tool, to avoid tackling actual issues.

Exactly.
 

Deepwater

Member
Alright, well lets assume what you're saying is even fair or reasonable...what about the black posters here who may not see it as you do?

I don't think personal disparagement has any place on these shows, honestly, but I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge how I mindlessly laugh when it's launched at a politician I don't agree with. Now that it's a Black democrat being attacked I'm suddenly going to get all sanctimonious and claim it's racist?

Y'all could be 100% right about his comments and likely are considering the racially-charged shit he's spewed before. I guess I just didn't see her hairstyle as an exclusIisvey black one though. White women rock that, too. Now if she had been working with something natural I'd be more inclined to agree.

most things that are racist (even like people in this thread gracefully pointed out) are based in critical race theory which is based on tons of observable data, trends, and experiences. Most of the time it's rooted in power structures, which is important to grasp before giving the benefit of doubt to white people accused of racism.

But notice how I said interracially. Black people can agree and disagree on what is and isn't racist amongst they damn selves.

I was curious because I had never heard that term and it has nothing to do with hair. Did he link the wrong article?

using black women's hair as a method of silencing is an aspect of misogynoir, which is what they linked
 

UCBooties

Member
Alright, well lets assume what you're saying is even fair or reasonable...what about the black posters here who may not see it as you do?

I don't think personal disparagement has any place on these shows, honestly, but I'd be a hypocrite if I didn't acknowledge how I mindlessly laugh when it's launched at a politician I don't agree with. Now that it's a Black democrat being attacked I'm suddenly going to get all sanctimonious and claim it's racist?

Y'all could be 100% right about his comments and likely are considering the racially-charged shit he's spewed before. I guess I just didn't see her hairstyle as an exclusIisvey black one though. White women rock that, too. Now if she had been working with something natural I'd be more inclined to agree.

I don't think any and all attacks on the personal appearance of a black person are racist. I think that saying a Congresswoman isn't even worth listening because her hair looks like a black R&B singer's is dog whistle racism.

Edit: I reread your comment and realized that by responding to your question it could be construed that I am black and speaking on behalf of black posters. This is not the case, just so we're clear.
 
I think there's an important key to understanding why this is viewed as racist. Hopefully this will help:

Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly used the appearance of individual black people as an excuse to ignore or invalidate their opinions, just as he has here. This is a common racist tactic and it uses outward signifiers of blackness to justify shaming, silencing, or marginalizing black individuals or black communities at large. Bill O'Reily has made the case repeatedly that blacks are unemployable because of face tattoos or common modes of dress. You will often see this attitude arise when people refuse to take a black person seriously because of their name, or seemingly well-meaning people say things like, "why would you name your child that? It's just going to make things harder..." It feeds into the myth that black fashion, black hair-styles, and black cultural signifiers make a person less worthy of respect or even attention.

So in this situation you have Bill O'Reilly dismissing a US Congressperson, claiming that he could not even be bothered to listen to what she was saying, because she has hair that reminds him of a black R&B singer. It's a common line of racist attack and it puts forth the argument that she is unworthy of attention or respect because of something about her appearance that is coded to her blackness. This is textbook dog-whistle racism and you can see plenty of people in this thread bending over backwards to take him at face-value when this being a racist attack falls well within his own patterns of behavior and larger tactics used to silence and ignore blacks. Dog-whistle racism is all about deniability and taking advantage of the fact that white moderates want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall for it.
Yea, that sums it up. Nice of you to go into detail for him.
 
What UCBooties said is a great response to those missing the background...but does it really matter if his inappropriate comment to attempt to silence a black congresswoman solely because of her appearance was motivated more by racism or sexism?

Wrong is wrong, the point was to dismiss her as not worthy of his response and it worked since none of his co-hosts called him on it.
 

Enzom21

Member
It is amusing that the dude who was complaining about not being able to say nigger is bitching about "No debate allowed!" regarding something that is clearly racist from a known racist.


So it's just straight up racism now at Fox News? Cool.

Now? Fox has always been a channel filled with white supremacists.
From Brian Kilmeade talking about the ills of race mixing to Megyn Kelly assuring her fragile white audience that santa and jesus are both white.
 

Deepwater

Member
What UCBooties said is a great response to those missing the background...but does it really matter if his inappropriate comment to attempt to silence a black congresswoman solely because of her appearance was motivated more by racism or sexism?

Wrong is wrong, the point was to dismiss her as not worthy of his response and it worked since none of his co-hosts called him on it.

racism or sexism will never go away if we reduce all acts of such to "it's just wrong"
 

chatshi

Member
I completely dislike Bill O' Reilly, and he's undoubtedly said or implied racist things in the past, and I don't agree with pretty much anything he says...

But how is this racist? How is making fun of someone's hair racist?

Honestly, her hair DOES kind of look like James Brown's:

2254719201496ac256c01b484a32d48c_400x400.jpeg


5f5dddcc8de744a9a790dcc48d7fffa5.jpg



I'm not saying Bill O' Reilly isn't a racist. He probably is. What I'm saying is I don't see how what he said today was racist. It's mean spirited, childish, and dickish in nature, but not racist in my eyes.


This is a shitty post. She has an important message to tell and that vile shitbag Bill is minizing her and the message by comparing her hair to a dead black male artists.
 

Infinite

Member
I was curious because I had never heard that term and it has nothing to do with hair. Did he link the wrong article?

No, I didn't. I'm arguing that misogynoir as a concept explains why Black Women's hair is politicized as I assume most people barging into this discussion would already know, at least by now.
 

marrec

Banned
I think there's an important key to understanding why this is viewed as racist. Hopefully this will help:

Bill O'Reilly has repeatedly used the appearance of individual black people as an excuse to ignore or invalidate their opinions, just as he has here. This is a common racist tactic and it uses outward signifiers of blackness to justify shaming, silencing, or marginalizing black individuals or black communities at large. Bill O'Reily has made the case repeatedly that blacks are unemployable because of face tattoos or common modes of dress. You will often see this attitude arise when people refuse to take a black person seriously because of their name, or seemingly well-meaning people say things like, "why would you name your child that? It's just going to make things harder..." It feeds into the myth that black fashion, black hair-styles, and black cultural signifiers make a person less worthy of respect or even attention.

So in this situation you have Bill O'Reilly dismissing a US Congressperson, claiming that he could not even be bothered to listen to what she was saying, because she has hair that reminds him of a black R&B singer. It's a common line of racist attack and it puts forth the argument that she is unworthy of attention or respect because of something about her appearance that is coded to her blackness. This is textbook dog-whistle racism and you can see plenty of people in this thread bending over backwards to take him at face-value when this being a racist attack falls well within his own patterns of behavior and larger tactics used to silence and ignore blacks. Dog-whistle racism is all about deniability and taking advantage of the fact that white moderates want to give people the benefit of the doubt. Don't fall for it.

An excellent summation.

It's important to remember that racism manifests itself in ways other than white people calling black people the n-word. It can be just as nuanced and subtle as anything else. While this isn't the most subtle example in the world, it's obvious that some people are confused as to why specifically this incident is racist.

I see the question "now making fun of someone's hair is racist?"

Those asking that need to realize that Bill is saying these things about a Congresswoman who is black and also more qualified, intelligent, and successful than he will ever be. And yet he is attempting to invalidate her speech by laughing at her hair (black hair has historically been a target of racists). He's not cracking a joke at a fellow anchor or even just commenting on her hair in passing, he's trying to invalidate everything she had said because she has "James Brown hair".

"now making fun of someone's hair is racist" isn't actually what anyone is claiming and, intentional or not, is a strawman argument.
 

marrec

Banned
Sounds familiar

I think he's awful and didn't even vote for him, but

No no no, people are just getting trapped in the intentional obfuscation.

They aren't looking at all the context and are just recoiling at the idea that something so simple has a joke about hair can be racist. It's shocking to them and so they are understandably taken aback.
 
racism or sexism will never go away if we reduce all acts of such to "it's just wrong"

Not sure how you got there from my response, but calling racism racism or sexism sexism also won't just make them go away. Attempting to shut down a black woman because of her appearance instead of attempting to defend an actual position is both. You're free to get lost in the details of the exact ratio of racism to sexism but as I said, I don't think it matters.
 
This is all you really need to know about O'Reilly's agenda:

Trump_1484687011388_53304103_ver1.0_640_480.jpg


He's a Trump stooge. Just like Hannity.

And whenever they lose a logical argument, especially pertaining to Trump, they resort to personal insults because they are liberal antagonists and that's what gets them ratings.
 

Infinite

Member
An excellent summation.

It's important to remember that racism manifests itself in ways other than white people calling black people the n-word. It can be just as nuanced and subtle as anything else. While this isn't the most subtle example in the world, it's obvious that some people are confused as to why specifically this incident is racist.

I see the question "now making fun of someone's hair is racist?"

Those asking that need to realize that Bill is saying these things about a Congresswoman who is black and also more qualified, intelligent, and successful than he will ever be. And yet he is attempting to invalidate her speech by laughing at her hair (black hair has historically been a target of racists). He's not cracking a joke at a fellow anchor or even just commenting on her hair in passing, he's trying to invalidate everything she had said because she has "James Brown hair".

"now making fun of someone's hair is racist" isn't actually what anyone is claiming and, intentional or not, is a strawman argument.
I agree but I just wanna point out that black hair, particularly black women's hair, is policed to this day. The military just made it possible for black women to wear braids as opposed to getting a fucking relaxer. In fact, there was a study done that shows that most people regardless of race and gender hold an implicit bias towards women of color based on their hair.
 

jurgen

Member
Black guy here. O'Reilly's a piece of shit but I think there's an infinite list of other things he's said that are actually worth being upset about.

Besides, I actually chuckled. Waters is a little batshit crazy and has overstayed her welcome too.

She's got the swoop down though.


He's dehumanizing another person and minimizing her important message. Shitty person.

Man, if making a joke about a James Brown haircut is "dehumanizing," we've got a low bar for dehumanizing.

And as a African-American, I think saying Maxine Waters's message is important is disingenuous. Just as this joke can be perceived as racist considering the source (from O'Reilly's mouth), I think the words coming from Waters's mouth are hypocritical. She's railing against Trump putting millionaires and billionaires in his cabinet that don't understand the hardships of the African-American community while she and her husband made millions off of OneUnited Bank during the TARP bailouts back in 2008.
 

Dehnus

Member

It would be funny if it was a comedy by Mel Brooks, but damn this is serious...

In a Mel Brooks comedy you would laugh at the stupidity of the pundit, that said this African American Man probably knows how tides work and can explain it, where as Bill O'Reilly is stiff baffled by it. ;).
 
Black guy here. O'Reilly's a piece of shit but I think there's an infinite list of other things he's said that are actually worth being upset about.

Besides, I actually chuckled. Waters is a little batshit crazy and has overstayed her welcome too.

She's got the swoop down though.





Man, if making a joke about a James Brown haircut is "dehumanizing," we've got a low bar for dehumanizing.

And as a African-American, I think saying Maxine Waters's message is important is disingenuous. Just as this joke can be perceived as racist considering the source (from O'Reilly's mouth), I think the words coming from Waters's mouth are hypocritical. She's railing against Trump putting millionaires and billionaires in his cabinet that don't understand the hardships of the African-American community while she and her husband made millions off of OneUnited Bank during the TARP bailouts back in 2008.

Just because you're black doesn't mean you're woke.

Case in point.

It would be funny if it was a comedy by Mel Brooks, but damn this is serious...

In a Mel Brooks comedy you would laugh at the stupidity of the pundit, that said this African American Man probably knows how tides work and can explain it, where as Bill O'Reilly is stiff baffled by it. ;).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=np4f5p8XCrg

In case anyone wanted to actually see O'Rilley delivering the line. Just to confirm it's not fake.
 

collige

Banned
Black guy here. O'Reilly's a piece of shit but I think there's an infinite list of other things he's said that are actually worth being upset about.

Besides, I actually chuckled. Waters is a little batshit crazy and has overstayed her welcome too.

She's got the swoop down though.





Man, if making a joke about a James Brown haircut is "dehumanizing," we've got a low bar for dehumanizing.

And as a African-American, I think saying Maxine Waters's message is important is disingenuous. Just as this joke can be perceived as racist considering the source (from O'Reilly's mouth), I think the words coming from Waters's mouth are hypocritical. She's railing against Trump putting millionaires and billionaires in his cabinet that don't understand the hardships of the African-American community while she and her husband made millions off of OneUnited Bank during the TARP bailouts back in 2008.
There's a difference between clowning on someone and clowning on someone on national TV as your only reaction to their speech.
 
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