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Bitter Pill: Why Medical Bills Are Killing Us - Time Magazine

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N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
Didn't see this posted, but a great read up on Time about Medical bills in the US and how it's destroying our economy.

Long read, but worth it.

http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/

Some cuts:

The first of the 344 lines printed out across eight pages of his hospital bill — filled with indecipherable numerical codes and acronyms — seemed innocuous. But it set the tone for all that followed. It read, “1 ACETAMINOPHE TABS 325 MG.” The charge was only $1.50, but it was for a generic version of a Tylenol pill. You can buy 100 of them on Amazon for $1.49 even without a hospital’s purchasing power.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/#ixzz2LYoQbs6g
Click to expand...

Steve H.’s bill for his day at Mercy contained all the usual and customary overcharges. One item was “MARKER SKIN REG TIP RULER” for $3. That’s the marking pen, presumably reusable, that marked the place on Steve H.’s back where the incision was to go. Six lines down, there was “STRAP OR TABLE 8X27 IN” for $31. That’s the strap used to hold Steve H. onto the operating table. Just below that was “BLNKT WARM UPPER BDY 42268” for $32. That’s a blanket used to keep surgery patients warm. It is, of course, reusable, and it’s available new on eBay for $13. Four lines down there’s “GOWN SURG ULTRA XLG 95121” for $39, which is the gown the surgeon wore. Thirty of them can be bought online for $180. Neither Medicare nor any large insurance company would pay a hospital separately for those straps or the surgeon’s gown; that’s all supposed to come with the facility fee paid to the hospital, which in this case was $6,289.

Read more: http://healthland.time.com/2013/02/20/bitter-pill-why-medical-bills-are-killing-us/#ixzz2LYohlgLP
Click to expand...

Best Health Care in the World? Right?
 
A

Agent Icebeezy

Welcome beautful toddler, Madison Elizabeth, to the horde!
I work in healthcare, I teach healthcare classes in college. I've shown many stats to my students about the disparity of our healthcare system in contrast to other first world countries in that we are the only first world country that does not have universal healthcare.
 
T

Tom_Cody

Member
I haven't read it yet, but thebrowser.com called this article Pulitzer-prize worthy. I will look forward to reading it after work.
 
U

UFRA

Member
I had minor surgery last year (like a 40 minute long surgery) and was only in the hospital a total of about 5 hours from start to finish. Final cost was about $3,000.

Luckily I didn't have to pay any of that, but wow...
 
M

Mattlikewhoa

Member
Nonetheless, Sean was held for about 90 minutes in a reception area, she says, because the hospital could not confirm that the check had cleared. Sean was allowed to see the doctor only after he advanced MD Anderson $7,500 from his credit card. The hospital says there was nothing unusual about how Sean was kept waiting.
Click to expand...

Seriously?! This is the stuff that makes me rage and I haven't even made it past the first page...
 
S

sans_pants

avec_pénis
According to one of a series of exhaustive studies done by the McKinsey & Co. consulting firm, we spend more on health care than the next 10 biggest spenders combined: Japan, Germany, France, China, the U.K., Italy, Canada, Brazil, Spain and Australia. We may be shocked at the $60 billion price tag for cleaning up after Hurricane Sandy. We spent almost that much last week on health care. We spend more every year on artificial knees and hips than what Hollywood collects at the box office. We spend two or three times that much on durable medical devices like canes and wheelchairs, in part because a heavily lobbied Congress forces Medicare to pay 25% to 75% more for this equipment than it would cost at Walmart.
Click to expand...

god shed his grace on thee
 
S

SabinFigaro

Member
That kind of itemization is mindblowing.

Just to think of the many small steps we do for prepating patients in the OR, and then actually billing them for it, is midblowing.

I mean, I often shave the head with a disposable electric razor, comb the hair with a disposable comb, mark the incision, etc. A heater is $32? What the hell do they charge for a foley?

I'm in the Canadian healthcare system, so we're not immune to these costs, just less aware. I really wonder what the actual cost of these small, seemingly innocuous products is for the hospital, and what the mark-up is then for the US consumer. I mean, we all know the baseline costs associated with typical things, like a chest x-ray or head CT, but I really doubt people actually stop to think about the cost of a marker.
 
S

sans_pants

avec_pénis
this is news to me and pretty disgusting

The health care industry seems to have the will and the means to keep it that way. According to the Center for Responsive Politics, the pharmaceutical and health-care-product industries, combined with organizations representing doctors, hospitals, nursing homes, health services and HMOs, have spent $5.36 billion since 1998 on lobbying in Washington. That dwarfs the $1.53 billion spent by the defense and aerospace industries and the $1.3 billion spent by oil and gas interests over the same period. That’s right: the health-care-industrial complex spends more than three times what the military-industrial complex spends in Washington.
Click to expand...
 
R

RotBot

Member
I don't understand how their $469/month plan didn't have an annual out-of-pocket limit. Or did they just ignore all the other cancer treatment centers that would take their insurance in favor of the best one, which didn't?

Anyway, reminds me of this.
Z2VNx.jpg
Click to expand...
 
D

dojokun

Banned
Go here:

http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/indus.php?ind=H03

Scroll down to the part where it says "Party Split."

Notice how they typically favor Republicans, but in campaign years where the Dems are pushing a health care bill (Clinton's and Obama's bills), they donated more to Dems than Repubs. That should tell you all you need to know about how they expect the health care bill to affect them. So I don't buy all this bullshit about how the ACA is going to take away a lot of profit or regulate them to hell.
 
M

Messypandas

Member
Steve H.’s bill for his day at Mercy contained all the usual and customary overcharges. One item was “MARKER SKIN REG TIP RULER” for $3.
Click to expand...

Just wow, they charge your for the sharpie marker? What a joke
 
S

satriales

Member
In addition, the cardiologist in the emergency room gave Janice S. a separate bill for $600 to read the test results on top of the $342 he charged for examining her.
Click to expand...
You have to pay $600 just to hear the test results? Insane!
 
H

Hoo-doo

Banned
Feels good never having to worry about this shit, ever.
Getting ill or injured in the States can financially ruin your entire fucking life if you're not insured. Thousands of dollars for a 25-minute MRI? Get out of here.
 
W

WARCOCK

Banned
I got charged around 9000 for staying in the ER for about 4 hours for a kidney stone. They gave me a strong opiate to deal with the pain. Ran an MRI on my lower abdomen. I think there was an electrocardiogram test. The er doctor talked to me for all of 3 minutes in the entire stay and charged 1500 for his services. It passed and i got discharged.
 
C

Chris R

Member
Insane costs are why I try to self diagnose instead of visiting a the doctor :(

Just hope the minor things are actually minor things and not a sign of something major.
 
N

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
besada said:
So long as health care is a for-profit enterprise, companies providing it will attempt to maximize profit.
Click to expand...

Except, most of these hospitals are non-profits. Collecting major profits.

Honestly, when everyone was going after Wall Street and the Banks and the mortgage scandal.. I've been talking with my friends about how just as hurtful was the medical problem in this country.

The system we use is an absolute joke.
 
L

lmpaler

Member
Agent Icebeezy said:
I work in healthcare, I teach healthcare classes in college. I've shown many stats to my students about the disparity of our healthcare system in contrast to other first world countries in that we are the only first world country that does not have universal healthcare.
Click to expand...

Those crazy Canucks have it and they are some of the nicest people. I truly believe that this country would be a lot better off with universal healthcare. Yes we have to pay higher taxes which everyone bitches about, but in the long run all those people who are unemployed and still scraping by trying to get a job or career in order, would have this.

And most importantly, the children of this country would have it and that is the most important aspect of it all.

Hopefully this country will see the light on this and then reform our education system.
 
S

sans_pants

avec_pénis
NervousXtian said:
Except, most of these hospitals are non-profits. Collecting major profits.

Honestly, when everyone was going after Wall Street and the Banks and the mortgage scandal.. I've been talking with my friends about how just as hurtful was the medical problem in this country.

The system we use is an absolute joke.
Click to expand...

all of our major moneymaking sectors are corrupt and damaging to society as a whole
 
D

dojokun

Banned
lmpaler said:
Those crazy Canucks have it and they are some of the nicest people. I truly believe that this country would be a lot better off with universal healthcare. Yes we have to pay higher taxes which everyone bitches about, but in the long run all those people who are unemployed and still scraping by trying to get a job or career in order, would have this.

And most importantly, the children of this country would have it and that is the most important aspect of it all.

Hopefully this country will see the light on this and then reform our education system.
Click to expand...
I agree. Specifically "universal healthcare" as in a single payor system, not what Democrats in America are pushing, which is pushing everyone into the for-profit insurance model and calling it "universal" in the broad sense that everyone is covered.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
Couldn't we simply fix health care once and for all by passing a law that hospitals must charge *everyone* the medicare rates? You don't even need single payer in that case, since hospital bills would be manageable except in the direst of cancer situations, which would mean insurance would be dirt cheap.
 
T

The Technomancer

card-carrying scientician
lmpaler said:
Those crazy Canucks have it and they are some of the nicest people. I truly believe that this country would be a lot better off with universal healthcare. Yes we have to pay higher taxes which everyone bitches about, but in the long run all those people who are unemployed and still scraping by trying to get a job or career in order, would have this.

And most importantly, the children of this country would have it and that is the most important aspect of it all.

Hopefully this country will see the light on this and then reform our education system.
Click to expand...
This is why I think PPACA is important and why I'm glad Obama won a second term. Is the ACA universal heahtlcare? No, nothing like it (although the exchanges are nice). But its important psychologically. The rhetoric has been that government is incompetent and government getting involved in healthcare would be disastrous (conveniently forgetting Medicare, natch) and when PPACA fully goes into effect people will see directly that the apocalypse didn't happen, and will hopefully be more primed for true universal healthcare later down the road.
 
C

ClassyPenguin

Banned
People still and many politicians and the media say the reason the Eurozone crisis exists is because of social welfare spending even though it's wrong and people believe it. As long as they do so and spread fear about spending nothing's going to change.
 
Hari Seldon

Hari Seldon

Member
The Technomancer said:
This is why I think PPACA is important and why I'm glad Obama won a second term. Is the ACA universal heahtlcare? No, nothing like it (although the exchanges are nice). But its important psychologically. The rhetoric has been that government is incompetent and government getting involved in healthcare would be disastrous (conveniently forgetting Medicare, natch) and when PPACA fully goes into effect people will see directly that the apocalypse didn't happen, and will hopefully be more primed for true universal healthcare later down the road.
Click to expand...

While I definitely want universal healthcare, it seems like we wouldn't even need it if we could force some sane price controls on these hospitals. Like if a hospital doesn't charge medicare prices for everyone, boom you are no longer non-profit, you now pay taxes including property taxes on your prime real-estate to the strapped local government.
 
M

mackattk

Member
lmpaler said:
Those crazy Canucks have it and they are some of the nicest people. I truly believe that this country would be a lot better off with universal healthcare. Yes we have to pay higher taxes which everyone bitches about, but in the long run all those people who are unemployed and still scraping by trying to get a job or career in order, would have this.

And most importantly, the children of this country would have it and that is the most important aspect of it all.

Hopefully this country will see the light on this and then reform our education system.
Click to expand...

Higher taxes would be offset by not having to pay so much for health insurance. We would see an increase, but not nearly as big as many think so.

demon said:
I just don't go to the doctor anymore unless it's an emergency. And I have insurance through my employer. Too many instances of being poked and prodded for five minutes, then a urine/blood test or x-Ray, only to be told they don't know what's wrong or "just get some rest and take ibuprofen", and wait for the $300-400 bill in the mail. I can't afford that shit. Fuck the healthcare system in this country, and a sincere 'fuck you' to any and every one who obstructs reforming it. It's absolutely sickening.
Click to expand...

It is scary to think how many of us are one accident away from bankruptcy, even with insurance.
 
D

demon

I don't mean to alarm you but you have dogs on your face
I just don't go to the doctor anymore unless it's an emergency. And I have insurance through my employer. Too many instances of being poked and prodded for five minutes, then a urine/blood test or x-Ray, only to be told they don't know what's wrong or "just get some rest and take ibuprofen", and wait for the $300-400 bill in the mail. I can't afford that shit. Fuck the healthcare system in this country, and a sincere 'fuck you' to any and every one who obstructs reforming it. It's absolutely sickening.
 
F

FLEABttn

Banned
catfish said:
do people actually think this? I thought nobody thought US healthcare was good unless you're a billionaire.
Click to expand...

Yeah, people think this. One of my co-workers has family in NZ and she was saying how good we have it in comparison to them because they have to wait to see a doctor or have a procedure done. I reminder her of a procedure I had done that was 12 months between diagnosis and first surgery, because we have waiting in the USA too. We collectively never seem to mention or recollect that though.
 
C

commedieu

Banned
demon said:
I just don't go to the doctor anymore unless it's an emergency. And I have insurance through my employer. Too many instances of being poked and prodded for five minutes, then a urine/blood test or x-Ray, only to be told they don't know what's wrong or "just get some rest and take ibuprofen", and wait for the $300-400 bill in the mail. I can't afford that shit. Fuck the healthcare system in this country, and a sincere 'fuck you' to any and every one who obstructs reforming it. It's absolutely sickening.
Click to expand...

When I saw people complaining about not wanting the government messing with their medicare due to fears of communism, I gave up. People in this country are lost. The one thing I thought everyone would agree to, was universal healthcare. But no... smh.
 
R

RDreamer

Member
The Technomancer said:
This is why I think PPACA is important and why I'm glad Obama won a second term. Is the ACA universal heahtlcare? No, nothing like it (although the exchanges are nice). But its important psychologically. The rhetoric has been that government is incompetent and government getting involved in healthcare would be disastrous (conveniently forgetting Medicare, natch) and when PPACA fully goes into effect people will see directly that the apocalypse didn't happen, and will hopefully be more primed for true universal healthcare later down the road.
Click to expand...

The problem is that healthcare costs will continue to rise. So, people will still be squeezed by the high costs. Then they'll think to themselves that PPACA didn't do anything, or even because of it they're getting hurt more. It's very hard to effectively tell people that things would have been even worse without something.

I mean, seriously, the right will just say this: "They said Obamacare would fix things. You're still hurting, and healthcare still costs way too much. Now they want to take your freedom away and take it even further?" Stupid people will fall for this hook, line, and sinker.
 
D

dojokun

Banned
RDreamer said:
The problem is that healthcare costs will continue to rise. So, people will still be squeezed by the high costs. Then they'll think to themselves that PPACA didn't do anything, or even because of it they're getting hurt more. It's very hard to effectively tell people that things would have been even worse without something.

I mean, seriously, the right will just say this: "They said Obamacare would fix things. You're still hurting, and healthcare still costs way too much. Now they want to take your freedom away and take it even further?" Stupid people will fall for this hook, line, and sinker.
Click to expand...
The problem, as the article in the OP proves, is that "cost" of healthcare is not as justified as people across the whole political spectrum think it is. Liberals and conservatives are arguing over how to pay the bill. The real issue is that the bill doesn't actually have to be that high in the first place, making the entire health care debate (as presented to us by the main political parties and the media) a farce.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
NervousXtian said:
Best Health Care in the World? Right?
Click to expand...

No, it's not. Sure, you can find the best brain surgeon, or the finest MRI machine, but as a holistic enterprise, it's a catastrophe.

Can't wait for some idiot who's never experienced healthcare anywhere else to defend the indefensible though.
 
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