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[Hari Seldon]

Everyone I know that is currently in the military (8-10 people) are all extremely liberal. It's dumb to say all veterans and active military personnel are right wing because of anyone's single experience.

You are right to not use anecdotal evidence, I was assuming this was a well accepted fact. A quick google search finds this 2009 Gallop thing:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx

Maybe not as overwhelming as I thought but it the military definitely leans right.

 

[diffusionx]

I don't think there is anything particular about the military experience that means people lean right. The military has more people from the South, which leans right in general. The vets I know generally lean left but I live in the Northeast.

 

[Aaron-Lagann]

Maybe not as overwhelming as I thought but it the military definitely leans right.

Oh absolutely. I was just saying it's not fair to generalize the opinions of anyone in the military.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

You are right to not use anecdotal evidence, I was assuming this was a well accepted fact. A quick google search finds this 2009 Gallop thing:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx

Maybe not as overwhelming as I thought but it the military definitely leans right.

that's a much closer spread than I had anticipated really. not super surprised though.

 

[Shao Kahn on the Lawn]

that's a much closer spread than I had anticipated really. not super surprised though.

The Republican brand has taken a lot of damage, leading to some former Republicans classifying themselves as "Independents". It may not be as close as the graphic indicates.

 

[inky]

Actually, I think a good chunk of American military and police would uphold their oaths to the Constitution and be on my side. Secession and nullification movements would become serious overnight and I think the United States

And yeah, I would probably die. Although nobody wants my old, fat ass hauling a pack around the wilderness shooting. But because of a particular skill set I have, my fighting is done with words and paper. (And no, I don't mean on the internet, I would probably be working or leading in one of the movements mentioned above.)

I see what you are saying about non-violent resistance, and I agree with that. That is the stage we are in now...defending individual liberty and civil rights against those who have fallen for the empty promises of statist utopia. Hopefully that continues to work, and I die of old age surrounded by my family, in a free country.

What a hero.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!
.

Except the government doesn't have a money problem and can out spend any civilian on weaponry due to the way we over fund on defense budgets that doesn't solve any violence unless it's outside of the US against the US that would happen far less then violence inside the US

Actually, I think a good chunk of American military and police would uphold their oaths to the Constitution and be on my side. Secession and nullification movements would become serious overnight and I think the United States

even then their sheer technological and access to weaponry would out do any such thing unless you think the military will defect and take fighter jets with them


and ironically any uprising against the US government by it's people will most likely be religious/idialog in nature....something like something elsewhere something maybe

 

[Limited Edition]

I picked up a Svage A17 for 250 with a cheap scope on it, and then got 15% off a beat up 43 Mauser that needs some TLC thanks to the local shops oddball sale. So one for varmints, one for the collection.

 

[smokeandmirrors]

The Republican brand has taken a lot of damage, leading to some former Republicans classifying themselves as "Independents". It may not be as close as the graphic indicates.

yeah i remembered that as i posted. I want to believe it's not people being afraid to be called republicans but you're probably right.

 

[diablos991]

Never thought about watching for firearm deals on black Friday.
I'll definitely keep my eyes peeled next year.

Been meaning to pick up a couple for me and the wifey.

 

[Malyse]

You are right to not use anecdotal evidence, I was assuming this was a well accepted fact. A quick google search finds this 2009 Gallop thing:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx

Maybe not as overwhelming as I thought but it the military definitely leans right.

Keep in mind that Republicans tend to give the Military more money than the Democrats.

----

And yes, the military would absolutely shoot your ass if they needed to. They wouldn't even blink.

 

[ironmang]

I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!

We're well past the point of random armed civilians being effective against the government. That probably ended when the military got tanks.

 

[Milly Osworth]

Maybe the stars in the American flag should be replaced by guns.

 

[LosDaddie]

You are right to not use anecdotal evidence, I was assuming this was a well accepted fact. A quick google search finds this 2009 Gallop thing:

http://www.gallup.com/poll/118684/military-veterans-ages-tend-republican.aspx

Maybe not as overwhelming as I thought but it the military definitely leans right.

I wonder if there are other polls. I always thought 70%+ of military voted GOP.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

This thread is exhibit A for why gun owners are so heavily demonized here on NeoGaf. So many of them have really shitty opinions, and the rest of us are simply tired of it and immediately assume the worst the next time we see someone promotes the same ideology.

Who is "us"? Who is "them"? You're doing a good job of expousing the tribalism which makes any conversation about gun control impossible on GAF.

Something like 30-40% of American households have a gun. There are over 300 million guns in private hands in America. What baffles me is non-Americans going off and spouting nonsense on GAF without really understanding just how mainstream gun ownership is in America. 1 in 3 Americans is a gun owner. Get it through your head. Gun ownership is mainstream in America. So try approaching gun control from that perspective instead of "us vs. them" and maybe the conversation will actually go somewhere interesting.

 

[appaws]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I don't see what is so funny about that. I'm a lawyer and I do have some skills that I would lend to any movement fighting for liberty.

Except the government doesn't have a money problem and can out spend any civilian on weaponry due to the way we over fund on defense budgets that doesn't solve any violence unless it's outside of the US against the US that would happen far less then violence inside the US


even then their sheer technological and access to weaponry would out do any such thing unless you think the military will defect and take fighter jets with them


and ironically any uprising against the US government by it's people will most likely be religious/idialog in nature....something like something elsewhere something maybe

We're well past the point of random armed civilians being effective against the government. That probably ended when the military got tanks.

Okay, insurgencies never work. How could I have gotten that crazy idea...???!!! Ask the people of Vietnam, who defeated not one but three world powers in their own fight for self-determination! Who ever heard of anyone resisting the mighty colonialist superstate...?

 

[Malyse]

We're well past the point of random armed civilians being effective against the government. That probably ended when the military got tanks.

You mean when the police got tanks, right?

 

[smokeandmirrors]

I don't see what is so funny about that. I'm a lawyer and I do have some skills that I would lend to any movement fighting for liberty.

sure you do buddy. what ever you say. enjoy your little fantasy world you live in.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

I don't see what is so funny about that. I'm a lawyer and I do have some skills that I would lend to any movement fighting for liberty.


Okay, insurgencies never work. How could I have gotten that crazy idea...???!!! Ask the people of Vietnam, who defeated not one but three world powers in their own fight for self-determination! Who ever heard of anyone resisting the mighty colonialist superstate...?

Different era, different tech, different climate of society

The past has no bearing on a future that was impossible at the time

You solve the problem of the government by never letting it get to that dream scenario of gun extremist

 

[appaws]

Different era, different tech, different climate of society

The past has no bearing on a future that was impossible at the time

You solve the problem of the government by never letting it get to that dream scenario of gun extremist

Did you notice that even recently the military of our superstate with all its technology, drones, jets, etc. was not able to subdue insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan....

The racist fucktards in South African were not able to subdue the ANC despite a huge advantage in military technology and support from our dumb backwards-ass government...

I think you have way too much faith in the unstoppable nature of our overgrown military machine.

 

[Piggus]

This thread is exhibit A for why gun owners are so heavily demonized here on NeoGaf. So many of them have really shitty opinions, and the rest of us are simply tired of it and immediately assume the worst the next time we see someone promotes the same ideology.

Do you ever actually have anything to say that might be useful in driving the conversation forward? It's always "I hate guns, ban all guns, gun owners are like slave owners, gun owners are like racists, gun owners always have shitty opinions, etc."

Thankfully your huffing and puffing about how much you hate gun owners, regardless of how they use and store their guns, will never actually amount to anything. I don't know where you live, but I'm glad it's not near me, because your obsessive, irrational hatred toward law-abiding people is quite frankly a little scary.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Did you notice that even recently the military of our superstate with all its technology, drones, jets, etc. was not able to subdue insurgencies in Iraq and Afghanistan....

The racist fucktards in South African were not able to subdue the ANC despite a huge advantage in military technology and support from our dumb backwards-ass government...

I think you have way too much faith in the unstoppable nature of our overgrown military machine.

And yet you are fearful of their power while I am indifferent but one side thinks the defense budget needs to always go up

 

[HyperionX]

Who is "us"? Who is "them"? You're doing a good job of expousing the tribalism which makes any conversation about gun control impossible on GAF.

Something like 30-40% of American households have a gun. There are over 300 million guns in private hands in America. What baffles me is non-Americans going off and spouting nonsense on GAF without really understanding just how mainstream gun ownership is in America. 1 in 3 Americans is a gun owner. Get it through your head. Gun ownership is mainstream in America. So try approaching gun control from that perspective instead of "us vs. them" and maybe the conversation will actually go somewhere interesting.

The people who promote radical pro-gun positions even in mass shooting threads are certainly part of the problem. Obviously, I'm not talking about the gun owners who can actually carry a rational discussion and are willing to reconsider there hobby if it comes down to it, but those aren't the people I'm talking about.

 

[wildfire]

How do you wrap a gun, or do you just put a bow on it?

Flawless.

Well...at least the post-Sandy Hook record is gone I guess. What a disgrace that is.

The bigger disgrace is that there wasn't any hyped up more than normal tragedy that warrants an expected record breaking increase. It's pretty sad people are spending their hard earned money on this especially since they most likely already own 2 guns.

 

[appaws]

And yet you are fearful of their power while I am indifferent but one side thinks the defense budget needs to always go up

Not me. I'm not some Fox News zombie dumb-ass neoconservative. Why are you indifferent to U.S. militarism? I think it has demonstrated to be a terrible thing all around the world, for a long time, with no end in sight.

I am always mystified that most gaffers seem to have a good healthy distrust of the American super-state when it comes to foreign policy (and damn right they should)...but seem to fall so easily into being so trusting of the (American super)-nanny state to make everything good within our borders.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Who is "us"? Who is "them"? You're doing a good job of expousing the tribalism which makes any conversation about gun control impossible on GAF.

Something like 30-40% of American households have a gun. There are over 300 million guns in private hands in America. What baffles me is non-Americans going off and spouting nonsense on GAF without really understanding just how mainstream gun ownership is in America. 1 in 3 Americans is a gun owner. Get it through your head. Gun ownership is mainstream in America. So try approaching gun control from that perspective instead of "us vs. them" and maybe the conversation will actually go somewhere interesting.

Yes, an incredibly large number of americans don't know what the fuck they're doing. That's not a good thing, or something to defend your opinions with. Many americans are voting for an open bigot.

I think the problem with how you're approaching this is that you're even thinking of it as a conversation, an exchange with two equal sides. It simply isn't. The jury has been in for years now, guns are destructive and in many places are better left out of the hands of the common man. It's a matter of catching up to the rest of the world, or simply not giving a damn.

 

[HyperionX]

Do you ever actually have anything to say that might be useful in driving the conversation forward? It's always "I hate guns, ban all guns, gun owners are like slave owners, gun owners are like racists, gun owners always have shitty opinions, etc."

Thankfully your huffing and puffing about how much you hate gun owners, regardless of how they use and store their guns, will never actually amount to anything. I don't know where you live, but I'm glad it's not near me, because your obsessive, irrational hatred toward law-abiding people is quite frankly a little scary.

Yeah, trying to save lives is so scary. It's us that's the crazy ones.

 

[PBY]

Do you ever actually have anything to say that might be useful in driving the conversation forward? It's always "I hate guns, ban all guns, gun owners are like slave owners, gun owners are like racists, gun owners always have shitty opinions, etc."

Thankfully your huffing and puffing about how much you hate gun owners, regardless of how they use and store their guns, will never actually amount to anything. I don't know where you live, but I'm glad it's not near me, because your obsessive, irrational hatred toward law-abiding people is quite frankly a little scary.

It's not hatred - its just frustration at knowing that there is a solution, and you willfully obstruct it because - FUCKING TOYS.

 

[Bronx-Man]

This thread has taught me that there are a lot of people here that watched too many action movies as a kid.

 

[hwalker84]

What beach are you storming?

The steel and paper targets at my range.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Not me. I'm not some Fox News zombie dumb-ass neoconservative. Why are you indifferent to U.S. militarism? I think it has demonstrated to be a terrible thing all around the world, for a long time, with no end in sight. .

That's a human problem not a military one.

 

[fantomena]

I do like this one:

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=89d_1411198955

 

[BLACK AMERICAN PSYCHO]

I hope most of those sales came from black people. We are definitely going to need them in the future.

 

[Piggus]

Yeah, trying to save lives is so scary. It's us that's the crazy ones.

If you wanted to save lives, you would recognize that the only thing you're accomplishing by villainizing gun owners is further polarizing both sides. How is that going to save lives? What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by comparing gun owners to slave owners and racists? Do you expect to change someone's mind by insulting them repeatedly?

It's not hatred - its just frustration at knowing that there is a solution, and you willfully obstruct it because - FUCKING TOYS.

No, it's hatred. Hatred toward people who don't agree that having their personally owned property forcefully stripped from them by the government is the only solution to the problem worth talking about. Sorry, but I'm not willfully obstructing anything. I'm using the rights that I have, but at the same time I vote for democrats and tell the NRA to get fucked. Why? Because I know enough about my own country to realize that I'll always be able to own guns as a hobby while at the same time I desire more sensible laws to keep guns out of dangerous hands. What you and HyperionX are doing, villianizing gun owners on the Internet, accomplishes absolutely nothing.

 

[Mooreberg]

This thread is disgusting, can't believe this is on the same page as the tragedy in California and people can't realize the dissonance between the two.

It is almost as if the people posting in this thread are not currently in police custody or on the run for murdering fourteen people.

 

[ipukespiders]

Canadian here. Heading down to south for my first trip to Vegas and I'm planning to do one of those gun range "tours" that let you try out some guns.

Any gun pros have recommendations for which guns to try? I've only ever shot a shotgun (clay pidgeons) for a session a few years back, and pellet guns as a kid. Too much of a pain in the ass here in Canada.

 

[Moofers]

If you wanted to save lives, you would recognize that the only thing you're accomplishing by vilainizing gun owners is further polarizing both sides. How is that going to save lives? What exactly are you hoping to accomplish by comparing gun owners to slave owners and racists? Do you expect to change someone's mind by insulting them repeatedly?



No, it's hatred. Hatred toward people who don't agree that having their personally owned property forcefully stripped from them by the government is the only solution to the problem worth talking about. Sorry, but I'm not willfully obstructing anything. I'm using the rights that I have, but at the same time I vote for democrats and tell the NRA to get fucked. Why? Because I know enough about my own country to realize that I'll always be able to own guns as a hobby while at the same time I desire more sensible laws to keep guns out of dangerous hands. What you and HyperionX are doing, villianizing gun owners on the Internet, accomplishes absolutely nothing.

Thank you.

Now for everyone giving him such a hard time:

Im another gun owner and I havent given the NRA a dime, and Im hoping to vote for Bernie Sanders twice next year. Im Christian but not in the retarded sense because I understand that we are not the United States of Jesus. Im all for letting people practice or ignore religion here however they want so long as it hurts no one.

I used to make assumtptions about people all the time. I thought religious people were all assholes or weak-minded, especially Christians. I thought gun owners were rednecks with tiny dicks. I thought all Republicans were either evil or stupid.

Then I grew up and saw the broader picture. Its a complicated world and you either become willing to talk about things and learn/explore, or you draw a line in the sand and tell everyone to fuck off if theyre on the other side of it. Which kind of approach do you think leads to problems more often?

 

[appaws]

Canadian here. Heading down to south for my first trip to Vegas and I'm planning to do one of those gun range "tours" that let you try out some guns.

Any gun pros have recommendations for which guns to try? I've only ever shot a shotgun (clay pidgeons) for a session a few years back, and pellet guns as a kid. Too much of a pain in the ass here in Canada.

Really whatever you are into...

If you are a Dirty Harry fan you could try a big revolver. If you want to try what the armed forces use you could try an AR-15 and a Beretta 9mm. Some places have stuff with full auto that you can use at their place.

It is harder to get handguns in Canada, right? Maybe try a Glock and a 1911 and then you can join in on the never-ending internet debate on which is better.

 

[Cocaloch]

I don't see what is so funny about that. I'm a lawyer and I do have some skills that I would lend to any movement fighting for liberty.





Okay, insurgencies never work. How could I have gotten that crazy idea...???!!! Ask the people of Vietnam, who defeated not one but three world powers in their own fight for self-determination! Who ever heard of anyone resisting the mighty colonialist superstate...?

The Vietnamese did not win a military victory. They just cost the US enough time and money that the war became quite unpopular in the states. The cost of the war outweighed any possible benefits so the US left. Which by the way is more or less the same way the US came out ahead in their revolutionary war.

 

[gohepcat]

Do any gun fans in this thread ever look at the overwhelming amount of guns in the United States (and only the United States), and think to themselves "this sucks and is super embarrassing"?

Because… It really does suck. We are fucking swimming in guns. It just feels like a massive display of failure

I recently met this guy from Bulgaria, and he was talking about how many people smoke in his country, and he was...sort of embarrassed by it. it's embarrassing when you appear on top of a list of something like most smokers, or most gun owners, or least healthiest.

Wouldn't you want to strive to be the top of the list of lowest gun ownership and lowest crime? I never get the impression that owning a gun is something that you consider an unfortunate necessity.

When my dad returned from World War II he vowed that he would never fire a gun for the rest of his life, and he didn't. He spent the rest of his life raising a family and never wanted to relive that time. That seems like such a noble goal.

 

[ipukespiders]

If you want to try what the armed forces use you could try an AR-15 and a Beretta 9mm.

I think this combo will hit the spot. I'm not interested in blowing my shoulder off, nor do I want to shoot anything that sends me on my ass (i'm a lightweight).

As for Canada, yeah gun ownership isn't really practical for me.

 

[Camp1nCarl]

Keep in mind that Republicans tend to give the Military more money than the Democrats.

----

And yes, the military would absolutely shoot your ass if they needed to. They wouldn't even blink.

I think you've watched way too many action movies if you honestly think most members of the military would turn on their family, friends, and other civilians. Members of the military have an obligation to not obey unlawful orders. Heck, there have been recent cases in Afghanistan and Iraq where soldiers were tried under UCMJ for killing civilians, and even if they pleaded they were "just following orders" they are sentenced because they followed an unlawful order. Same thing happened with Nazis too that simply said they were "just following orders."

Now staying on topic: I think this is to be expected, if not a bit disappointing. But with how funded and influential groups like the NRA is it's so difficult to even bring intelligent gun control regulations to discussion without people losing their shit thinking the "government is going to take everyone's guns!"

 

[appaws]

Do any gun fans in this thread ever look at the overwhelming amount of guns in the United States (and only the United States), and think to themselves "this sucks and is super embarrassing"?

Because… It really does suck. We are fucking swimming in guns. It just feels like a massive display of failure

I recently met this guy from Bulgaria, and he was talking about how many people smoke in his country, and he was...sort of embarrassed by it. it's embarrassing when you appear on top of a list of something like most smokers, or most gun owners, or least healthiest.

Wouldn't you want to strive to be the top of the list of lowest gun ownership and lowest crime? I never get the impression that owning a gun is something that you consider an unfortunate necessity.

When my dad returned from World War II he vowed that he would never fire a gun for the rest of his life, and he didn't. He spent the rest of his life raising a family and never wanted to relive that time. That seems like such a noble goal.

That's great...it is what he wanted to do. He and everyone else should have the choice to make that decision for themselves.

I am proud of America's expansive civil liberties and I am not willing to sacrifice any part of them.

Your Bulgarian friend should be proud that while they are smoking away they also make magnificent AK-pattern rifles. Съединението прави силата!

I think this combo will hit the spot. I'm not interested in blowing my shoulder off, nor do I want to shoot anything that sends me on my ass (i'm a lightweight).

As for Canada, yeah gun ownership isn't really practical for me.

Don't worry...nothing you will rent at a range will really knock you on your ass if you handle it properly. Hopefully you or somebody you are with is versed in safety procedures, if not you should see if they have some sort of tutoring or beginner's class there.

The Vietnamese did not win a military victory. They just cost the US enough time and money that the war became quite unpopular in the states. The cost of the war outweighed any possible benefits so the US left. Which by the way is more or less the same way the US came out ahead in their revolutionary war.

This is exactly my point. I am not saying that insurgencies defeat superpowers in straight up combat...just that they make the costs too high for the superpowers to make the effort. They don't have to win a "victory" and force the aggressor country to deal with the war weariness of its own population.

 

[yongeandcollege]

Do any gun fans in this thread ever look at the overwhelming amount of guns in the United States (and only the United States), and think to themselves "this sucks and is super embarrassing"?

Because… It really does suck. We are fucking swimming in guns. It just feels like a massive display of failure

I recently met this guy from Bulgaria, and he was talking about how many people smoke in his country, and he was...sort of embarrassed by it. it's embarrassing when you appear on top of a list of something like most smokers, or most gun owners, or least healthiest.

Wouldn't you want to strive to be the top of the list of lowest gun ownership and lowest crime? I never get the impression that owning a gun is something that you consider an unfortunate necessity.

When my dad returned from World War II he vowed that he would never fire a gun for the rest of his life, and he didn't. He spent the rest of his life raising a family and never wanted to relive that time. That seems like such a noble goal.

I was under the impression that gun ownership rates in the US are similar to those in Canada.

 

[The Last Emperor]

Lmao at this kid who says he has special skills

 

[soulassssns]

As a active duty service member I get a lot of laughs out of some of the things you civilians think of us.

Lol

 

[Alex Stroud]

Picked up a Sig Sauer P226 and a 1911 Traditional Compact Stainless. Heading out to the shooting range tomorrow before I fly to Seattle for work tomorrow evening.

Lmao at this kid who says he has special skills

He could be a pretty fast typist.

 

[LudicrousSpeed]

I was under the impression that gun ownership rates in the US are similar to those in Canada.

Gun ownership rates, meaning households that have guns, have been on a 4 decade decline. Canadian gun ownership rates seem to be around 26%-29% based on some different numbers, and a study on US rates put it around 34% in 2012.

Total number of guns, however, keeps going up and up.

So, basically, less and less people are owning more and more guns.

 

[appaws]

Picked up a Sig Sauer P226 and a 1911 Traditional Compact Stainless. Heading out to the shooting range tomorrow before I fly to Seattle for work tomorrow evening.



He could be a pretty fast typist.

Goddamn it....I don't mind being the butt of jokes. It is kind of funny the way I phrased it, like that guy in Taken.

But I just want to point out that if you look back at what I was saying I was just saying that I am a fat, 41 year old lawyer....and that nobody would want me running around in combat, so I would have to be some kind of newsletter writer or public speaker. I was not trying to say I had military skills, just the opposite...

And Sigs fucking rule, btw.

 

[The Last Emperor]

Are you good at writing or public speaking?

This is directed at the fat lawyer, btw