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Black Friday Was the Biggest Day Ever for Gun Sales

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appaws

Banned
NRA is proud of you guys.

I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!

You're not wrong, I'm just heated because I've had the same discussions with the same posters in this thread on the same issues every time we have a mass shooting.

My view has become more extreme the more of these cases we have this.

I think the data shows that the Australian model can work.

PBY, you are my favorite anti-gunner, because at least you are honest about your prohibitionism. Most of those who oppose individual rights just lie and pretend to be moderate and in favor of "sensible" restrictions on our rights. Of course once you get your "sensible" laws and one more psycho kills someone, of course they will be back for a few more "sensible" curtailments of liberty.

The Australian model will work great....after the civil war when all of us who value liberty and individual rights are dead. Then you can construct your violence free utopia.
 

PBY

Banned
He is. It's always the same with him (and a lot of other people) and gun threads. Both sides need to be realistic about things. If there isn't a middle ground, it's not gonna work.

That's fine - but I find it dishonest to view this as an issue with "sides" where a "middle ground" makes reasonable sense. I'm not sure how much a middle ground solution can help. Probably some, but I really feel that this is a case where the actual data supports one solution, and the arguments against that are nebulous appeals to fear, hobbyism, and freedom. There shouldn't be a middle ground if those are the opposing forces at play.
 
I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!

As a gun-owner, the NRA is gross and I question anyone who feels proud of it. The history of racism it has alone makes it disgusting, but the fact it breeds its rhetoric on the loss of innocent lives doesn't help. The people who support the NRA are the ones who are making me willing to sacrifice my gun to prevent those crazies from having theirs.
 
I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!

you can't be serious.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Obama just signed the law allowing the military to dump surplus 1911s to CMPs. I got some super cheap garands back when they did this last time. So thanks Obama!
 

Kyzer

Banned
In addition to much harsher background checks (obligatory everywhere! looking at you gun trade shows), further restrictions on crazy guns and ammo, a longer licensing process, and making laws more like in MD where they aren't obligated to give you a license but you actually have to convince them you need it for a valid reason, I think we need safe storage legislation. Like an owner has to provide credible proof that they have a foolproof way of storing it in their homes without kids being able to access it, or it being stolen.

As for the idea of outlawing all guns in general, "taking away all guns" , its not only unrealistic but its going to make compromise on the issue nigh impossible in this country. And for all the stupid rhetoric and backwards thinking of a lot of the republican party these days, one of the things that is kinda true is that outlawing guns wouldnt take away the illegal firearms in this country. There are a lot. Granted they probably started as legal guns, but I think a lot are also probably smuggled in by cartels.

All that said, hunting is a vital skill, there's nothing wrong with knowing your way around a firearm, and being able to protect yourself from home intrusion, especially in a country that actually does have a legitimately high amount of guns in the hands of criminals.

But, maybe a crossbow or something is all anyone needs. And open/concealed carry is a little weird. I don't know much about the statistics but it doesn't seem immediately beneficial. We don't really need vigilantes. Then again, in NY they are trying change the way civilians handle active shooter situations and actually telling them to take them down if they get a clear safe shot.

Idk, its a complicated issue, and like with all controversial issues, the worst thing you can do is be totally one-sided and uncompromising about it. People feel the way they feel about it for a reason, not just because they "dont get it". Their schema is different. Thats why its controversial.
 

nib95

Banned
Do you think I could write a similar article about how it was the biggest day for dildo sales and it would also be true. Oh how about... Americas shitting problem, biggest day for toilet paper sales?

Click bait, you're all in. It's cool someone has to click the stuff.

But was it the biggest day ever for dildo or tissue sales?
 

appaws

Banned
As a gun-owner, the NRA is gross and I question anyone who feels proud of it. The history of racism it has alone makes it disgusting, but the fact it breeds its rhetoric on the loss of innocent lives doesn't help. The people who support the NRA are the ones who are making me willing to sacrifice my gun to prevent those crazies from having theirs.

America has a history of racism, at every level. There is no escaping it...all of our institutions have a racist past and institutional racism will continue to taint everything for a long time, and probably forever. Minorities and minority communities have the right to self-defense, and it is more important that they have it than anyone else. I'll side with Otis McDonald and his right to live free against the false promises of statist protection.

you can't be serious.

I am very serious. I will always fall on the side of individual liberty, without apology.
 
America has a history of racism, at every level. There is no escaping it...all of our institutions have a racist past and institutional racism will continue to taint everything for a long time, and probably forever. Minorities and minority communities have the right to self-defense, and it is more important that they have it than anyone else. I'll side with Otis McDonald and his right to live free against the false promises of statist protection.

A right in which the NRA actively sought to remove exclusively for minorities. An idea many NRA members support to this day. But I guess it's still cool since the NRA more than likely represents just your right to have a gun.

I'm convinced the only reason they even allow minorities in these days is because they realize they need whatever support they can gain amid the growing cry to limit gun access.

Don't know how any empathetic and rational human can support such a terrible organization.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!
I'm always confused by the talks of guns being a check on government. How exactly does that work? It might be the case when dealing with policemen, but the moment you get military involved you are dealing with an industry that far outnumbers whatever security a gun can provide.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I'm always confused by the talks of guns being a check on government. How exactly does that work? It might be the case when dealing with policemen, but the moment you get military involved you are dealing with an industry that far outnumbers whatever security a gun can provide.

If you have the military fighting civilians then we have already regressed to Syria levels, so in that case it will be highly advantageous to own your own gun.
 

Malyse

Member
I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!



PBY, you are my favorite anti-gunner, because at least you are honest about your prohibitionism. Most of those who oppose individual rights just lie and pretend to be moderate and in favor of "sensible" restrictions on our rights. Of course once you get your "sensible" laws and one more psycho kills someone, of course they will be back for a few more "sensible" curtailments of liberty.

The Australian model will work great....after the civil war when all of us who value liberty and individual rights are dead. Then you can construct your violence free utopia.
You can't be serious. You actually think your guns could stop the government?
 

Kyzer

Banned
I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!

lmao at the check on government argument. Even if by the grace of an alternate dimension there actually were any danger of the government trying to militarize the nation and take over the world through propaganda and other conspiracy stuff, good luck fighting them off with your weapons. They outnumber you, have more firepower, infinite resources, and the power of the media (in this conspiratorial reality), so theres no way in hell youre going to win.

Out of curiosity, if a state of emergency were called in the USA, and martial law imposed across the nation, would you be suspicious of their intentions?
 

entremet

Member
lmao at the check on government argument. Even if by the grace of an alternate dimension there actually were any danger of the government trying to militarize the nation and take over the world through propaganda and other conspiracy stuff, good luck fighting them off with your weapons. They outnumber you, have more firepower, infinite resources, and the power of the media (in this conspiratorial reality), so theres no way in hell youre going to win.

Out of curiosity, if a state of emergency were called in the USA, and martial law imposed across the nation, would you be suspicious of their intentions?
Yeah, it's not the 1700s lol.
 

Regulus Tera

Romanes Eunt Domus
If you have the military fighting civilians then we have already regressed to Syria levels, so in that case it will be highly advantageous to own your own gun.
I get that, but the US military is at a technology level far above that of what happens in Syria.
 
so you'd be dead before you could ever load your weapon during any hypothetical war against the government

you're delusional.

He probably wouldn't even put up a fight anyway, in the non existent situation he's prepared for. Most who espouse the "protect us from the government" rhetoric are cowards. I say this as someone who grew up around Michigan Militia members and witnessed first hand much of the ineptitude and craziness it propagates.
 

HyperionX

Member
This thread is exhibit A for why gun owners are so heavily demonized here on NeoGaf. So many of them have really shitty opinions, and the rest of us are simply tired of it and immediately assume the worst the next time we see someone promotes the same ideology.
 

Mudcrab

Member
Out of curiosity, if a state of emergency were called in the USA, and martial law imposed across the nation, would you be suspicious of their intentions?

I would man. Imposing marital law on 350 million people overnight would be crazy as shit.
 
America has a history of racism, at every level. There is no escaping it...all of our institutions have a racist past and institutional racism will continue to taint everything for a long time, and probably forever. Minorities and minority communities have the right to self-defense, and it is more important that they have it than anyone else. I'll side with Otis McDonald and his right to live free against the false promises of statist protection.



I am very serious. I will always fall on the side of individual liberty, without apology.

You are aware that we've never had a time when civilians with guns have done anything to protect anyone from the government.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
I get that, but the US military is at a technology level far above that of what happens in Syria.

If the US military started carpet bombing its own civilians we will no longer have a US anyway. No one is going to be paying taxes to pay the salaries of the soldiers, there will be no functioning federal government at all. Not to mention that the most likely scenario is that the military would be on the side of the gun owners in the first place because... have you ever spent any time with military members or veterans?
 

ApharmdX

Banned
I'm proud, and proud to be an NRA member. Civilian gun ownership is the ultimate check on government, and the only one that protects all the others in the long run. I don't give a crap about sheep in other places willing to give up their human rights. Americans are not willing, thank God!



PBY, you are my favorite anti-gunner, because at least you are honest about your prohibitionism. Most of those who oppose individual rights just lie and pretend to be moderate and in favor of "sensible" restrictions on our rights. Of course once you get your "sensible" laws and one more psycho kills someone, of course they will be back for a few more "sensible" curtailments of liberty.

The Australian model will work great....after the civil war when all of us who value liberty and individual rights are dead. Then you can construct your violence free utopia.

This post is insane. It really is.
 
This thread is exhibit A for why gun owners are so heavily demonized here on NeoGaf. So many of them have really shitty opinions, and the rest of us are simply tired of it and immediately assume the worst the next time we see someone promotes the same ideology.

We (gun-owners) are not that demonized actually. At least, I've never felt that way. I can separate the few people who see me as the devil from the rest pretty easily.
 

Mudcrab

Member
If the US military started carpet bombing its own civilians we will no longer have a US anyway. No one is going to be paying taxes to pay the salaries of the soldiers, there will be no functioning federal government at all. Not to mention that the most likely scenario is the the military would be on the side of the gun owners in the first place because... have you ever spent any time with military members or veterans?

Irrespective of any gun arguments, insurgencies can definitely be effective against superior numbers and technology in the right scenario. Doesn't matter if you're the British in Afghanistan, or Americans in Vietnam, or the Soviets in Afghanistan, or the Americans in Afghanistan. Historically, it's never a cakewalk.
 

TheTurboFD

Member
so you'd be dead before you could ever load your weapon during any hypothetical war against the government

you're delusional.

I mean if anyone in the military is willing to shoot their own because the the government said so then we would already have been fucked as a whole.
 
America has a history of racism, at every level. There is no escaping it...all of our institutions have a racist past and institutional racism will continue to taint everything for a long time, and probably forever. Minorities and minority communities have the right to self-defense, and it is more important that they have it than anyone else. I'll side with Otis McDonald and his right to live free against the false promises of statist protection.



I am very serious. I will always fall on the side of individual liberty, without apology.

Insanity.

These are the people that give prohibition of guns legitimate arguments. That and the countless mass slaughters of innocents that could have been prevented if guns weren't as easy as a fucking candy bar to acquire.
If the US military started carpet bombing its own civilians we will no longer have a US anyway. No one is going to be paying taxes to pay the salaries of the soldiers, there will be no functioning federal government at all. Not to mention that the most likely scenario is that the military would be on the side of the gun owners in the first place because... have you ever spent any time with military members or veterans?

I'm in the military, and I abhor guns. For 99% of the population, they are just easy access murder devices.
 
The reason I find the whole Military vs Civilian scenario crazy is that our military are us. I have family in the armed forces. They are not going to obey commands to drop bombs or fire indiscriminately into crowds of US civilians. Or at least, my cousins in the forces aren't going to. I guess I can't use them as a representative of the entire organization. But I get the feeling many soldiers aren't okay opening fire on their potential friends and families. But maybe I'm wrong. I dunno. I don't believe we'll ever get near that point.
 
No I believe Glocks and AR15s will do wonders against US government drone strikes, attack helicopters and armoured vehicles.

It's more of a matter of common sense than it is not enough firepower.

It's interesting how much value is put into the concepts of liberty and freedom, when it's their own subservience to their ideology that makes them less free than anything our government can ever do to them.
 

appaws

Banned
I'm always confused by the talks of guns being a check on government. How exactly does that work? It might be the case when dealing with policemen, but the moment you get military involved you are dealing with an industry that far outnumbers whatever security a gun can provide.

You can't be serious. You actually think your guns could stop the government?

lmao at the check on government argument. Even if by the grace of an alternate dimension there actually were any danger of the government trying to militarize the nation and take over the world through propaganda and other conspiracy stuff, good luck fighting them off with your weapons. They outnumber you, have more firepower, infinite resources, and the power of the media (in this conspiratorial reality), so theres no way in hell youre going to win.

Out of curiosity, if a state of emergency were called in the USA, and martial law imposed across the nation, would you be suspicious of their intentions?

so you'd be dead before you could ever load your weapon during any hypothetical war against the government

you're delusional.

Iraq, Afghanistan, the American Revolution, Vietnam, Mozambique.

People have a human right to resist tyranny. It goes along with a right to self-determination...which the white nations of the world denied to the non-white ones for centuries. It wasn't easy, and they often lost....but they were (and are) still right to fight.
 

Piggus

Member
You can't be serious. You actually think your guns could stop the government?

What would the government be able to do? How many soldiers do you think would side with the government in forcefully taking people's guns to the point where they have to shoot people?

"The government" is made up of people who would have to be supportive of a forceful gun ban and willing to kill people who resist. Yeah, good luck.
 
It's more of a matter of common sense than it is not enough firepower.

It's interesting how much value is put into the concepts of liberty and freedom, when it's their own subservience to their ideology that makes them less free than anything our government can ever do to them.

The only thing that will never part is the hypocrisy.
 
Irrespective of any gun arguments, insurgencies can definitely be effective against superior numbers and technology in the right scenario. Doesn't matter if you're the British in Afghanistan, or Americans in Vietnam, or the Soviets in Afghanistan, or the Americans in Afghanistan. Historically, it's never a cakewalk.

well yes but the armed populace of those places is entirely different than the armed populace here. guns nuts here are not nearly on the same level of training and know how as the Mujaheddin or Vietcong.

I mean if anyone in the military is willing to shoot their own because the the government said so then we would already have been fucked as a whole.

yep. the military is big and strong enough that if they decided to it wouldn't matter.

Iraq, Afghanistan, the American Revolution, Vietnam, Mozambique.

People have a human right to resist tyranny. It goes along with a right to self-determination...which the white nations of the world denied to the non-white ones for centuries. It wasn't easy, and they often lost....but they were (and are) still right to fight.

LOL the American Revolution was fought with muskets that took minutes to load against people that lined up in single file lines.

Americans are NOT trained like the Mujaheddin or Vietcong or any of the other insurgency group so quit that power trip fantasy right there.
 

Dude Abides

Banned
America has a history of racism, at every level. There is no escaping it...all of our institutions have a racist past and institutional racism will continue to taint everything for a long time, and probably forever. Minorities and minority communities have the right to self-defense, and it is more important that they have it than anyone else. I'll side with Otis McDonald and his right to live free against the false promises of statist protection.



I am very serious. I will always fall on the side of individual liberty, without apology.

If only the war against the statist oppressors could be fought with keyboard rhetoric liberty would be secure.
 

Kyzer

Banned
I would man. Imposing marital law on 350 million people overnight would be crazy as shit.

France declaring a state of emergency was what allowed them to find and kill Abaaoud...

And realistically, even if, worst case, it was Illuminati New World Order time and they were about to secretly enslave humanity through a system of banking and capitalism. What are you gonna do about it? Die? lol. And if you really believe the government is that sinister, whats the difference between tomorrow and today? You already supposedly live in the belly of the beast, globalization wont really change anything. All this fear of losing "freedom" because of big scary government...thats already whos in power! They gave you that freedom! They dont have to do shit youre already a slave. !

Dont make no sense got dangit. Conspiracy theory shit is so dangerous. Its what allows people to radicalize and join ISIS, to join the KKK, to be ready to fight the government. Literally we couldnt even become a one world government without people being afraid it was the antichrist's plan all along. Its the same shit Hitler used to convince people that the jews needed to go. Its what Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh use to convince people Obama is a muslim insurgent spy.

Its crazy how people are crazy enough to connect dots that arent there, but never connect the dots between being crazy and connecting dots. And totally ignore that we live in a society so free that youre even allowed to see all these dumb conspiracy videos in the first place.

Iraq, Afghanistan, the American Revolution, Vietnam, Mozambique.

People have a human right to resist tyranny. It goes along with a right to self-determination...which the white nations of the world denied to the non-white ones for centuries. It wasn't easy, and they often lost....but they were (and are) still right to fight.

Uh, the american military would be your enemy here bro. The Iraqi and Afghani revolutionaries wouldnt have been able to do squat without us. IE Isis wiped them out in Iraq.

And okay, youre gonna die, and look bad, and be slandered upon. I get the whole "the patriots were once considered terrorists" line of thinking, but its also 2015. We live in a post-Ghandi world. Martin Luther King Jr. There's a right way to change things, and a wrong (and utterly hopeless and futile) way.
 
have you ever spent any time with military members or veterans?
Yeah. Lot of veterans in my family. Mother and brother both were Marines. Most of the ones in my family are anti-gun because they realize they're not toys for dumb fuckers to play with.

The ones for guns are literally products of generation after generation of incest in the mountains. And are just plain insane people. So I'll stick to saying fuck guns.

Oh, and my non-veteran father who disowned me for being bi is also crazy for guns. So excuse me if my opinion of pro gun psychos is a tad low.
 

Kyzer

Banned
Yeah. Lot of veterans in my family. Mother and brother both were Marines. Most of the ones in my family are anti-gun because they realize they're not toys for dumb fuckers to play with.

The ones for guns are literally products of generation after generation of incest in the mountains. And are just plain insane people. So I'll stick to saying fuck guns.

Wowww. Totally reasonable and open minded belief, clearly based on science. "Many agree with me, and everyone else is a product of incest, therefore I am right "

The Australian model will work great....after the civil war when all of us who value liberty and individual rights are dead. Then you can construct your violence free utopia.

Holy shit. Crazy people on both sides of this argument.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the perfect allegorical metaphor for modern politics.
 
Wowww. Totally reasonable and open minded belief, clearly based on science. "Many agree with me, and everyone else is a product of incest, therefore I am right "
Answering the question of "have you spent time with veterans" by talking about my family of veterans. The part of this family for guns, are actual incest children from the mountains. That's not a joke. They're actually people with mental illness. How about reading the context before jumping to a response, okay?
 

Hip Hop

Member
Holy shit. Crazy people on both sides of this argument.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is the perfect allegorical metaphor for modern politics.

lmao and that is why the discussions always stop/never start. You're not getting anywhere with these kinds of people.
 

Hari Seldon

Member
Yeah. Lot of veterans in my family. Mother and brother both were Marines. Most of the ones in my family are anti-gun because they realize they're not toys for dumb fuckers to play with.

The ones for guns are literally products of generation after generation of incest in the mountains. And are just plain insane people. So I'll stick to saying fuck guns.

You must have had a weird experience then haha. All of my experiences both in and working with military personal have them right wing as fuck, at least the officers.

My overall point is that the idea that the federal government is going to battle civilians in some sort of war is completely ridiculous. And if so, the idea that it would be a *left wing* dictator doing this is is now entering into alien hostile takeover territory lol.
 

PBY

Banned
lmao and that is why the discussions always stop/never start. You're not getting anywhere with these kinds of people.

This is a shitty way to handwave away the serious factual issues with your stance, which leads to the slaughter of so many innocents annually.
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
I don't see myself buying a gun anytime soon. Probably just gonna inherit one of my late grandpa's pistols (Blackhawk .357)

I wish my dad didn't sell his colt python ;_;
 
You must have had a weird experience then haha. All of my experiences both in and working with military personal have them right wing as fuck, at least the officers.
Everyone I know that is currently in the military (8-10 people) are all extremely liberal. It's dumb to say all veterans and active military personnel are right wing because of anyone's single experience.
 

appaws

Banned
Uh, the american military would be your enemy here bro. The Iraqi and Afghani revolutionaries wouldnt have been able to do squat without us. IE Isis wiped them out in Iraq.

And okay, youre gonna die, and look bad, and be slandered upon. I get the whole "the patriots were once considered terrorists" line of thinking, but its also 2015. We live in a post-Ghandi world. Martin Luther King Jr. There's a right way to change things, and a wrong (and utterly hopeless and futile) way.

Actually, I think a good chunk of American military and police would uphold their oaths to the Constitution and be on my side. Secession and nullification movements would become serious overnight and I think the United States

And yeah, I would probably die. Although nobody wants my old, fat ass hauling a pack around the wilderness shooting. But because of a particular skill set I have, my fighting is done with words and paper. (And no, I don't mean on the internet, I would probably be working or leading in one of the movements mentioned above.)

I see what you are saying about non-violent resistance, and I agree with that. That is the stage we are in now...defending individual liberty and civil rights against those who have fallen for the empty promises of statist utopia. Hopefully that continues to work, and I die of old age surrounded by my family, in a free country.
 
And yeah, I would probably die. Although nobody wants my old, fat ass hauling a pack around the wilderness shooting. But because of a particular skill set I have, my fighting is done with words and paper. (And no, I don't mean on the internet, I would probably be working or leading in one of the movements mentioned above.)
.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 

Kyzer

Banned
Answering the question of "have you spent time with veterans" by talking about my family of veterans. The part of this family for guns, are actual incest children from the mountains. That's not a joke. They're actually people with mental illness. How about reading the context before jumping to a response, okay?

I swear I did though! I felt like I had to! I was like wtf did I miss here!?

Im sorry to hear about your personal experiences, and hope you stay strong throughout your life, you don't deserve to be treated like that.

lmao and that is why the discussions always stop/never start. You're not getting anywhere with these kinds of people.

Im slowly learning, in spite of myself, that as much as I want to debate topics, and as vehement as I am in life, I do much, much more damage to myself by getting caught up in battles of ideology than I do actually have any impact/make any sort of change.

I gotta learn faster.
 
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