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Black, Minority and Ethnic Leads in Videogames
- Thread starter Lego Boss
- Start date
I suddenly remembered this C64 game from 1983:
Ha! Now I'm compelled to research if there's an earlier non-licensed black playable character in a computer or video game.
3DS, Vita, PS3, & PS4 get a new game every single week starring an Asian character in Japan. See? I can say irrelevant stuff too.
This thread is talking about a certain segment of the market.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Because Russians are very, very white? WTF
ProfessorMoran
Member
Not really concerned about ethnic characters, we need more Canadian protagonists.
It would be a non white Mario. What's the deal honestly? It's not an excuse for not having one.
RockTurtle
Member
why would it be an excuse? what needs to be excused?
Sounded like an excuse to me like "they will mishandle it so better no POC in games like Mario", but I'm not sure whether this is what he implies.
To be fair the OP didn't specify a certain segment of the market. It probably would have led to a more fruitful discussion if they had specified "US" videogames (although maybe that should be "UK" as the OP mentioned Daley Thompson's Decathalon and Frank Bruno's Boxing). Still, the internet (and the games industry) is international, and what is a minority in one part of the world is a majority in another (and vice versa). So without specifying a region you're bound to get some people who consider themselves to be a minority where they reside to protest when they are portrayed as being part of the "majority".
Anyway, quite a few have been asking for Indian lead characters. I suggest getting a PS2, although I guess those don't count as minorities for the purposes of this thread as they are Indian developed games.
silvermember
Banned
Well you could always make your own topic, instead of coming here. I doubt even Canadians would play a game with a Canadian Protag.
I think that because Mario and Luigi are these 1930's cartoony caricatures of Italians with a large round nose, mustache, accent, and a chubby figure. The only other human characters in are the equally as cartoony Wario and Waluigi, and the less cartoony in comparison female characters which sort of have a 1930's betty boop style to them. Keeping with that early cartoon art style brings to mind the highly politically incorrect portrayal of black people in old 1930's cartoons.
gollumsluvslave
Member
Gears of War characters design has always taken a bit of a pasting in terms of 'musclebound meatheads' but it's quite culturally diverse
Dom Santiago
The Cole Train!
Kim
Tai
Alicia Valera (Gears 3 DLC)
Dom Santiago
The Cole Train!
Kim
Tai
Alicia Valera (Gears 3 DLC)
Gravemind IV
Member
Spartan Locke and Tanaka from Halo 5. Then again, Halo 5 also has a 50/50 split on female spartans spread across the two teams.
Because when people talk about white protagonists in games they usually aren't of a Eastern European descent.
Then you have Siberian Russian too, which would also fit this thread.
What if we had a thread about Japanese games and different groups, wouldn't people from China or Vietnam count?
NeoGAF might have its servers based in the US but it's an international forum. People from all over the world use it and you have a large communities from other countries, both English speaking ones and otherwise.
I feel like disregarding their perspective simply because it doesn't match your own is ignorant and hurtful to the quality of the discussion.
Phoenix Fang
Banned
Supportive role.
petran79
Banned
Regarding 80s games I remember that guy.
He was probably the best male lead in the game.
Michael F. Stoppe (Maniac Mansion)
"Award winning photographer for the college newspaper."
Unique skills: Michael can develop film.
Intro speech: "Did any of you guys see that movie? Four kids went into this strange house and ...uh... never mind."
Also that character, but for older audiences
Ellen (I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream)
Ellen Ellen, once an engineer with a promising career ahead of her, is transported to a pyramid made of electronic junk and with its interior resembling an Egyptian temple whose décor is largely yellow. AM says that the temple contains some of his primary units and is apparently offering her a chance to destroy him. Ellen suffers from a severe phobia of the color yellow, due to its association with her rape (her rapist, who isolated her in an elevator, wore yellow), preventing her from approaching AM's apparent weak spots.
He was probably the best male lead in the game.
Michael F. Stoppe (Maniac Mansion)
"Award winning photographer for the college newspaper."
Unique skills: Michael can develop film.
Intro speech: "Did any of you guys see that movie? Four kids went into this strange house and ...uh... never mind."
Also that character, but for older audiences
Ellen (I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream)
Ellen Ellen, once an engineer with a promising career ahead of her, is transported to a pyramid made of electronic junk and with its interior resembling an Egyptian temple whose décor is largely yellow. AM says that the temple contains some of his primary units and is apparently offering her a chance to destroy him. Ellen suffers from a severe phobia of the color yellow, due to its association with her rape (her rapist, who isolated her in an elevator, wore yellow), preventing her from approaching AM's apparent weak spots.
Was gonna say Darcy Stern too. I loved that game and it featuring a black woman cop seemed pretty progressive at the time.
I'm not sure if he's accepted here (fake edit: actually, scratch that...everyone's accepted here, right?
)
but since I see people like Dom and Kai from Gears listed I'm just gonna add
Ishi Sato from Bulletstorm.
real edit: wait, what about Juan from Guacamelee?
except assholes
but since I see people like Dom and Kai from Gears listed I'm just gonna add
Ishi Sato from Bulletstorm.
first character that popped in my mind though was Alyx Vance, even though she's not lead but she's already been brought up
real edit: wait, what about Juan from Guacamelee?
I suddenly remembered this C64 game from 1983:
This is a great find! It might be the first ever game with a black lead.
There was a game called Ghettoblaster with a lead called Rockin Rodney which was released in 1985. According to the ZZAP review there was a prequel, but l can't recall it.
Anyone have any ideas?
Fun fact: Ghettoblaster is Jammin's sequel (or spin-off, since Jammin' 2 also exists)!
I didn't know that until just now. The first hint that both games were related was that they were coded by the same person: Tony "Gibbo" Gibson.
Jammin's instructions confirm that the name of the protagonist is Rodney:
petran79
Banned
Encouraging is also the rise of African video game developers
Maliyo Games ou Kuluya in Nigeria, Leti Arts in Ghana and Kenya, Kola Studios in Ouganda, Kiro'o games in Cameroun, Thoopid in South Africa etc
Time to cover a gap long time missing in the video game culture. Though it helps if you know French.
Maliyo Games ou Kuluya in Nigeria, Leti Arts in Ghana and Kenya, Kola Studios in Ouganda, Kiro'o games in Cameroun, Thoopid in South Africa etc
Time to cover a gap long time missing in the video game culture. Though it helps if you know French.
If you re-read my post, nothing of what you said was "dismissed". In a thread specifically stated to talk about minorities as people of colour, you tried to refocus it to being the inclusion of white people in Europe being represented. Yes, i agree that we all need representation, and i agree on the points you've highlighted here as well, but if you can't see how in your previous posts you were derailing, then there isn't much else i can say here. I brought up the Irish quote because it only highlights as an example, how talk specifically of POC as minorities in a thread, constantly gets refocused like your post did. Yes, Turkish people and other subgroups of white people can all do with more representation in Europe, but that is another beast for another discussion i'd gladly advocate and speak on in a different thread, Feel me? Even then the term "minority" historically is used for POC. Trying to label other white people in different European regions as a "minority", even in Europe, where everybody hates everybody (exaggeration of course), is questionable, but i'll entertain that idea.
I'd delve further into your misconstruing the term racism and how Poles,for example, by virtue of being predominantly white, are discriminated against but not due to their race,but that is again, a different discussion.
Again, your points are valid, but when you ask "but what about Niko Bellic", a non minority in a thread about minorities, and try to re purpose the term to include people who aren't the relevant focus, you can at least see why something had to be said. Multiple posts from you later and you delved further and further away from the topic;
" it doesn't change the fact that people from Eastern Europe have to deal with racism in Europe...even if it's a Polish game, made by Polish dudes, located in a fantasy Poland. "
Except for the fact that Turks are predominantly Asian and not European. I see where you're going with your argumentation but Turks are not a European white subgroup facing the usual "European hate" and I find this label really offensive since it dismisses the everday struggle Turks are facing.
A book claiming that Turks are genetically less worth than others because they are less intelligent due to their genetics being the best-selling book since the foundation of the Federal Republic of Germany (this is 2010 BTW not 1933) , the chance of Turks getting a job Interview being 24% less than those of the rest, the majorty of the Turks being on the worst schools with the least education, the constant representation as barbaric criminals or gangsters in media, etc. . yeah, the usual "European hate", right? You should check your facts before making such generalising statements. Also a bit of research towards Anti-Turkism (e.g. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Turkism) would definitely help you to understand these issues.
Concerning Polish people it is right that it makes no sense to look into the problem of representation concerning skin colour but there is nothing in the OP saying this thread is exclusively for non white minorities (and no your argument that minorties is historically used just for POC doesn't count). Nobody is denying that white minorities have it easier than non-white minorities, nobody is questioning the special focus on POC minorities in these debates and the importance for POC to be represented in media. But I don't see how demanding a broader diversity including minorities like Turks and Polish people is a bad thing when you stress the importance of including POC minorities at the same time and acknowledge that they should have a more important space in these debates I never denied that special focus and therefore never tried to "refocus" this debate onto other things. This debate has to be more inclusive. Nearly all white people portrayed are white Americans or Northern/ Western Europeans. Demanding that the media should have more POC and more minorities like Turks who are excluded because of racist reasons, isn't derailing.
But this leads to resistance from people like you and I just don't get it. Is it some kind of "who has to struggle more?" debate giving minorties like Turks a big fuck you when they want some representation in games other than the typical mongol barbarian stereotype because they struggle but less than POC? Because I'm not denying (and I'm constantly stressing this, at least like 5 times in this post) that they have it easier but I just can't see why this should mean that it shouldn't be voiced in conversations concerning representation of minorities like this one.
I want to have video games with very diverse protagonists, with diverse genders, diverse sexual preferences and for just one time also a Turkish one who isn't a violent, barbaric coqueror. We have the same goals really, I just want to see some white minorties instead of the generic white Americans too and I think we should strive for as much diversity as possible.
cj_iwakura
Member
Wow, no mention of the classiest black man in gaming...
Garcian Smith, Killer7. Don' make him say it again.
He's a cleaner.
And VERY MUCH the main character,
Garcian Smith, Killer7. Don' make him say it again.
He's a cleaner.
And VERY MUCH the main character,
Emir Parkreiner is LITERALLY the embodiment of the Killer7.
Gnome Scat
Member
Ajay Ghale - Far Cry 4
Wei Shen - Sleeping Dogs
Connor Kenway - Assassin's Creed 3
Lee Everett - The Walking Dead
petran79
Banned
As a Greek having lived for a few years in Germany, the funny thing is that some racist Germans (from former DDR) labeled us as Turks. For the uninformed all dark haired people are lumped in one race, usually the most prevailing.
Ironically when we returned to Greece, some racist Greeks called us Nazis or Germans!
Returning Greeks from Caucasus and the Soviet Union met a similar treatment.
Another sad fact is that in Greece there are a lot of ethnic minorities from Balkans, Caucasus and South Asia, eg Georgians, Armenians, Albanians etc Racist Greeks lump them all together in one race as well, not caring about their country of origin (usual degrading label is "Albanian" for whites and "Pakis" for dark skinned)
The affected though are racist even between themselves. "We Georgians are better than those Armenians etc"
While I was living in London, there were clashes between Turks (mostly from Cyprus) and Kurds.
I remember that I preferred to buy bread from Turkish Cypriot ovens, it was better than the English one and similar to Greek bread.
Wasn't Streets of Rage released in 91?
In English l think 'turk' is used as a pejorative/insult (e.g. you young turk), but l'm not sure if that is directly related to the race/nation or is a term derived from.elsewhere.
Are there any Turks in videogames (just to keep it on topic)?
There's also Karnov, who I always thought was Turkish, or some type of central Asian...
A.) nobody lumped turks as just white. you noticed an "and" there, to mention both the Turkish people and Poles you've mentioned multiple times. Also, ignoring my parenthetical about how i was certainly exaggerating, as Europe's lopsided racism toward Indian,black, and Arab people are lost on nobody here, was interesting.
2.) Are we further steeping into irrelevance here by talking about "who has it harder", cus it feels like it. I am obviously not trying to make this oppression olympics, yet you keep mentioning this. This strawman is odd, considering i'm going out of my way to discuss derailing, not "you'll never know how hard it is",but be my guest,man.
C.) I mentioned that your points about representation are valid, yet you're coming into a space where the sentence included in the op is this "enough black/ethnic minority leads..."
very clearly stating it is about POC in a race discussion and arguing semantics otherwise. Yes, Turkish people are made up of an array of Asiatic,Mediterranean, other nationalities from and not excluding the Caucases, but coming into yet another discussion where Poles and Niko Bellic isnt talked about until you, again, refocus it to white people (read. Poles, for instance), has not actually been conducive to this discussion. It is impossible to make this any more clear. Every time, without fail (anecdotaly speaking,admittedly), when POC discuss their form of representation, there have been people coming in going; but what about other white people?
nobody is censoring you, but showing you how that you are taking over a discussion.
I can't believe i'm saying this again, but your points are very valid about Poles, and of course Turks are vilified unjustly, but trying to act like both subjects aren't their own beasts which merit individual discussion, is being very socially unaware. When people say something like Hispanic,Blacklivesmatter,NativeLivesMatter, someone coming in and saying "but..but..all lives matter too, just aren't getting why there needs to be a stress on this particular discussion right now. i JUST scrolled by a user arguing to include Russians as minorities in this discussion, trying to say Siberian Russians are minorities which need to be focused on in this particular discussion. You might not see how pervasive it is, but it's there. Nobody should be invading to a thread you make about positively representing Turkish people white and/or nonwhite with "yeah, English people need more positive representation too. All we are is tea and crumpets to everyone non-English". This is the clearest analogy i can make considering you've agreed with me on Poles and skin colour, yet still likened their experience to racism, causing my eyebrow to raise ever-so-slightly. It's nice of you to notice that yes, other POC have it hard, but not giving the discussion it's own space, where , again, in the op, he highlights a black male as a primary example, (i'm too lazy now to highlight the same point)
on topic, something i've sorely now been out of:
Does anyone happen to know of any POC characters, aside from the one in Assasin's Creed, which used white passing to get from place to place?
Also, is it enough to say that a character is a POC/minority, but have them be white passing? I admire the people at Sucker Punch for making Delsin a positively and realistically represented Native American, but does one think they designed him to initially appear white for easy accessibility/ I may be completely reaching or going nuts, i dunno. Someone like Michonne in TWD DLC had her skin lightened noticeable in-game and that stuck me as odd.
I understand the first two points but I have to say something on the third one and then I'll stop talking about this topic since this hinders the discussion at the moment. Maybe it's a cultural thing or a language barrier but the OP doesn't seem to be exclusively about POC to me. It's about black and other ethnic minorities for me not solely POC minorties (the definition of ethnic minorties for me is like this one: An ethnic minority is a group of people who differ in race or color or in national, religious, or cultural origin from the dominant group often the majority population of the country in which they live). There is no hint whether it is only about minorties in the U.S., Europe or internationally speaking.
So this being said I didn't mentioned white minorities here in order to get the focus to this problem or something like that. My first post was actually about how it is still a long way to more diversity. Then somebody started this discussion about whites being no minority in games and I've asked what about Niko Bellic? Not with the intention to start a conservative like "all lives matter" BS just because he would fall into my definition of minorities. This Poland Witcher thing was also mentioned before, I engaged in this discussion (again under the assumption that we're talking about minorities in general). I see that one could misinterprete it as this "all lives matter" BS but it wasn't intended as such. But I've also stressed this during the last posts continuously. It isn't (speaking for myself I don't know the agenda of others) a "but now let's talk about whites and how they suffer" but rather combining every minority being underrepresented in media (internationally speaking) and changing this without losing the importance which the representation of POC is receiving in the U.S. . The example with a thread about Turks and the English people commenting about the stereotypes of English isn't on point though since we're not talking about national images and I personally wouldn't mind that under the condition that they acknowledge the purpose of the thread. But everybody has his own views on this so I don't say that it isn't possible to get annoyed by it.
But I see we're arguing with different presumptions. You said that every time when POC want to discuss those matters people come in and shout "what about whites?" and that's a sad truth and I understand that it must be frustrating. However the OP told us about a research he's doing on ethnic minorities. I wasn't under the impression that this is a thread by POC to discuss solely POC matters concerning the diversity of protagonist with minority background. This forum is accessible around the world and therefore topics like ethnic minorties are addressed differently with different POVs. So maybe it's just my fault for still not seeing the explicit hints that this is a thread just for POC or it is not that clear but either way I'm sorry if it seemed to be like focusing on white minorties and missing out on POC. This is not my intention. Maybe it's possible to be a bit clearer in the OP the next time whether it's a thread focusing on U.S. games and the representation of minorties in the U.S. and not internationally speaking.
As for your part about white passing of protagonists in games it is actually scary how often it happens. I never really realised that Clementine in TWD isn't a white person. Furthermore, not exactly what you're talking about but you can't really create black persons in Fallout 3 and NV. You can change the skin colour but they still look like a blackfacing white person . You can create Asian and Latin American looking people though so it is pretty shit that they left out on that. They changed that in F4 as far as I saw it so at least that's a thing.
@that picture with the Turkish fighter. That's pretty stereotypical. There was at least one positive portrayal of a Turk in Assassin's Creed Revelations but not a protagonist --> spoiler
and he died pretty quick if I remember correctly.
Assassin's Creed Revelations takes place in Constantinople, so most of the game's "present-day" cast is Turkish. Ezio even meets a young Suleiman without realizing who it was at first.
There are also flashbacks to Altair that take place in Syria.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Eh not really. equally as playable as Chris and gets the same amount of screentime minus like 10 minutes max for some cutscenes. She's pretty much a lead.
Lol no. Sheva was handled in a disappointing manner, almost as if she was an afterthought, maybe even just as a response to the racist power relationship in RE5. You can't even control her in single player until you've completed the entire game.
Moreover, as one academic article criticizes Capcom for in regards the Sheva:
"RE5 was originally designed as a single-player experience, according to developer Jun Takeuchi (Kelly, 2009). This seems to be borne out by the 2007 E3 trailer, and indeed Sheva Alomars introduction appears to be a response to the outcry over the racial depictions in that cinematic. Karen Dyer, Shevas motion-capture model, remarked that she received a call to audition in 2008 (Gametrailers.com, 2009a), nearly 2 years after the game began development."
"Shevas voice sounds British, with no traces of French, Afro-Asiatic, or Niger-Congo accents. She understands Swahili, but never speaks it during the game. When accosted by a Swahili-speaking soldier in an early cutscene, she replies in English. She does not offer to translate the Swahili radio broadcasts infrequently featured during the game."
"RE5s co-op play constrains the player to monitor their partners safety and neglecting this duty results in death, thus increasing tension. Shevas move-set reveals the difficulties of programming friendly AI. She follows Chris on a virtual tether around the game map, but only Chris can advance the narrative. She will defend Chris with melee attacks when hes threatened, but her ranged attacks rarely garner the prized headshot that finishes enemies more efficiently (thus wasting ammunition). She picks up objects unprompted but will not use them. The player must organize her inventory, ration her ammunition, and heal her. This does little to encourage sympathy for Sheva; in fact, her move-set and the games inventory system encourages players to minimize her agency and treat her like a beast of burden. As I played through the game, Shevas limitations became more apparent. She is only a minor plot device, nor does her character ever become fleshed out. [...] Sheva is simply a game mechanic; incorporated to shunt aside criticism of the games racial overtones"
"Sheva Alomars depiction evokes possibilities of changing industry perspectives on female videogame leads. Unfortunately, Shevas character conforms to Western hegemonic conceptions of femininity and race: she is brown, inarticulate, and supportive of the White hero"
"Shevas separation fromany African cultureeven a fictional oneand her inability to interact with the Africans in the game (a function of game mechanics as well as a property of the genre) remove any possibilities of cultural affinity. It is entirely appropriate to ask why Capcom did not use Shevas backstory as a springboard to involve her more deeply in the narrative. Without any emotional, geographic, or linguistic connection to RE5s rendition of Africa, Sheva is the videogame equivalent of Pocahontas: a woman of color coerced into guiding White explorers across a foreign land that she is presumed to be familiar with because of her ethnic heritage"
http://gac.sagepub.com/content/6/5/429.abstract
Only if the version used in merchandising/cover counts as a black/minority/ethinic lead
Cool. I get your original intentions and am glad that you were able to highlight them with civility when i might've come off as confrontational. I'll keep my reservations though on how on-topic they are concerning this thread,but there's something to be said of your awareness of the inequality and lack of representation subgroups face as a whole, if not to say anything else. It might've been lost in translation or context. Understandable.
As for thigns like fallout, yes, it is a pain trying to make a brown person look brown in many of these games, where we seem like an afterthought. Fallout, Mass Effect in quite a few face model cases (but i'll give em a pass i guess), oblivion (jesus), among others. There have been a few characters i look at and go "oh...they weren't white? could've fooled everyone".
This was brilliantly put. It is so jarring that a japanese publisher would uphold the white colonialist overtones adopted in many books and movies, and just copy-paste them in such a racially unaware manner. It felt like crating a game where you are the president deciding to nuke Hiroshima, being met with backlash, and creating a Japanese character to support the "hero". Shooting black people in exoticised tribal clothes because "plot" was hilariously jingoistic.