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Blizzard "goes back to the drawing board" with Diablo 3 PvP

Zimbardo said:
huh? how are you going to lose all your items by someone going hostile?

unless you're talking about Hardcore ...where you could just quit out of the game if you were worried.

going hostile is part of what made Diablo2 actually fun.
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You can't just TP or S&E in D3
 
So 7.5 months after release and they still haven't met their back of the box promises...There was a time when I was convinced that Blizzard could do no wrong, now I'm just waiting for them to do something right.
 
spirity said:
PoE is quite janky, especially compared to D3. Wraeclast is also a very grim world, the armour and weapons are quite crude. You look magnificent in D3, you look like a thug/bum in PoE.
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That's part of it. The world was bland, like a poor man's D2 without the graphical bliss.

Also the fact I looked like a beggar made me feel like "Am I really that "powerfull"?

In D3, combat feels heavy, your hits have weight to them. Something both PoE and TL2 fail at
 
dog$ said:
No, I think Jira is closer to the truth, but I need to expound upon it.

GAF's current playing community is strong enough. I hop on daily and find at least five people who are doing stuff, and they're not bad players who are willing to help others out.

I have enough players on my friends list that I haven't felt a need for lobbies.

There is synergy between classes to be found. For example, Cyclone Monk + CM Wiz = good times.

Auction House is great for this game. I don't have hours of time to piss away in chat channels spamming "wuw wug" over and over again. Fuck that garbage. I post my stuff at these prices. Buy them or don't, and if you don't, I'll relist for less until someone does. In the meantime, I'll actually play the game.

D3 PVP won't be close to D2 PVP, but not for lack of lobbies - it will be because the servers wouldn't be able to handle it, and because D3's combat system is a chaotic sloppy mess. This is fine for PVE, but worthless for PVP.
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The loot problem takes a distant second behind the community. D2 loot wasn't even spectacular besides having more different kinds of items like runes and charms. The game survived for so long due to (8 player) lobbies and the freedom they provided. Pvp, trading, chatting, questing, farming, etc... all options. Some annoying guy joined? TP, hostile, and chase his ass down. Want to get better drop bonuses? Join Baal runs and farm in different areas.

Plus, like I said, the difference in synergy between D2 and D3 is huge. Barbarians had several shouts that greatly helped teammates, paladins auras, necros curses, etc. Go look at posts made for forming ladder reset teams. All 8 players have a role in the team. D3 feels much more like a solo game.

I do agree that the D3 combat system is sloppy. Still think the lack of lobbies will be a bigger reason for it's failure though.
 
Fularu said:
That's part of it. The world was bland, like a poor man's D2 without the graphical bliss.

Also the fact I looked like a beggar made me feel like "Am I really that "powerfull"?

In D3, combat feels heavy, your hits have weight to them. Something both PoE and TL2 fail at
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Ummm PoE graphically blows D3's shitty art to pieces. And there are skills in the game that make players feel very powerful. Not like those garbage 5minute cooldown crap in D3.

Maybe get out of the mindset of Blizzard of how everything needs to be bright and pony.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
Ummm PoE graphically blows D3's shitty art to pieces. And there are skills in the game that make players feel very powerful. Not like those garbage 5minute cooldown crap in D3.

Maybe get out of the mindset of Blizzard of how everything needs to be bright and pony.
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Why are you talking about TL2?

And can you name a "5 minutes cooldown" ability in D3?
 
Many people see blizzard as some kind of devine studio that is head and shoulders above the rest. I would rather claim that the advantage they have is more about funding and dev time than anything else. The original Starcraft was a work of genius, true, but besides that game, most decent studios could probably replicate their results if they had so much backing and freedom. Blizzard nowadays seems like a hugely inefficent studio. How long was Diablo III in development? How many years for this relatively simple top down retro experience? It was announced summer 2008, and by then it was already "far along". Heart of the swarm, an expansion pack is now slated to be released some 3 years after the original game. In that time other decent studios spitting out 1-2 quality products.

Look at the state of diablo 3 at launch. A simplistic game with outdated concepts, no pvp and very little content. The whole "normal, nightmare, hell" element doesnt mask that. Any decent studio would have made a better job than they did if they had those kinds of resources. Its absolutely pathetic that it turned out as bad as it did.
 
Fularu said:
Why are you talking about TL2?

And can you name a "5 minutes cooldown" ability in D3?
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D3 is bright and coloured as hell compared to PoE and D2, and D3 has shitty ass textures everywhere.

Eh I mean 2 minutes.
Point is Hack and Slash suppose to have FUCKING NO COOLDOWNS!

Who the hell thinks cooldowns promote action? When did D2 ever have cooldowns?
 
I'm glad I didn't fall for the hype with this. The whole always-online "feature" was enough to keep me away, and it looks like that alone saved me $60. Thank you to whoever a Blizzard came up with that shit.
 
And can you name a "5 minutes cooldown" ability in D3?
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5 minutes is an exaggeration, but around 1.03 and 1.04 that was pretty much the entire Witch Doctor class, where a lot of his abilities had cooldowns that lasted at least a minute. It was bad enough that cooldowns were more of a resource than his mana pool.
 
BeauRoger said:
Many people see blizzard as some kind of devine studio that is head and shoulders above the rest. I would rather claim that the advantage they have is more about funding and dev time than anything else. The original Starcraft was a work of genius, true, but besides that game, most decent studios could probably replicate their results if they had so much backing and freedom. Blizzard nowadays seems like a hugely inefficent studio. How long was Diablo III in development? How many years for this relatively simple top down retro experience? It was announced summer 2008, and by then it was already "far along". Heart of the swarm, an expansion pack is now slated to be released some 3 years after the original game. In that time other decent studios spitting out 1-2 quality products.

Look at the state of diablo 3 at launch. A simplistic game with outdated concepts, no pvp and very little content. The whole "normal, nightmare, hell" element doesnt mask that. Any decent studio would have made a better job than they did if they had those kinds of resources. Its absolutely pathetic that it turned out as bad as it did.
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Blizzard 1996-2004 was fucking amazing. Diablo1/2, Starcraft/Warcraft, WoW.

Now it is Activision sellout.
 
Perkel said:
Blizzard 1996-2004 was fucking amazing. Diablo1/2, Starcraft/Warcraft, WoW.

Now it is Activision sellout.
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I would agree, but with a few reservations. Blizzard north (guys that made diablo and diablo2) was originally a independant studio that was purchased by blizzard right around when the first diablo was about to release. If one counts them as a part of blizzard then sure, one could count diablo among blizzards own products. WoW was a great game that i myself played for many years, but i would say that its hype and ambition were its greatest strenghts. The game had massive problems when it released, and wasnt really "better" per say than other mmos, it was just the most ambitious and modern looking. I wouldnt primarly attribute WoWs success to the quality of the game itself.

Besides that, i would agree with Starcraft and Warcraft 2 & 3 as fantastic games.
 
dog$ said:
In my opinion, there shouldn't even be a HC mode.

Instead - every new character starts with a halo overhead, and that halo is lost after the first death. At that point, players can voluntarily choose to delete the character or continue to play. No separate modes, no separate economies, no separate player base, and no HC elitist shitheads (not implying that you specifically are one).
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dog$
Hates quality gaming
 
The best part about that tag is that it leaves open to interpretation what kind of quality of gaming it is that I hate.
 
fluffydelusions said:
Got to the butcher in nightmare with my demon hunter and said bleh. Deleted my character and uninstalled the game lol. This was at launch so not sure what's been addressed and what hasn't but I didn't feel like picking up the game ever again.
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Lol why?

D3 wasn't perfect at launch but it's still a lot of fun. TL2 really didn't compare for me.
 
Tesseract said:
you wanna know what fucked diablo 3? instanced loot and automatic partying. gg blizzard, called this shit at launch.
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Instances loot was never a bad thing. That's ludicrous.

D3 has lots of problems, but neither of those are in the long list. Makes me wonder if you understand what makes D3 bad.
 
Shining Sunshine said:
D3 is bright and coloured as hell compared to PoE and D2, and D3 has shitty ass textures everywhere.

Eh I mean 2 minutes.
Point is Hack and Slash suppose to have FUCKING NO COOLDOWNS!

Who the hell thinks cooldowns promote action? When did D2 ever have cooldowns?
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You mean D3 uses more than 5 colors?

Gotcha
 
thetrin said:
Instances loot was never a bad thing. That's ludicrous.

D3 has lots of problems, but neither of those are in the long list. Makes me wonder if you understand what makes D3 bad.
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Yeah that is hardly a problem. Sure it was sort off exciting to nag first awesome loot in crazy race but overall it didn't add much to experience.

Fularu said:
You mean D3 uses more than 5 colors?

Gotcha
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More like shitty WoW artstyle. D2 was gory satanistic and it had gritty atmosphere.
 
BeauRoger said:
Many people see blizzard as some kind of devine studio that is head and shoulders above the rest. I would rather claim that the advantage they have is more about funding and dev time than anything else. The original Starcraft was a work of genius, true, but besides that game, most decent studios could probably replicate their results if they had so much backing and freedom. Blizzard nowadays seems like a hugely inefficent studio. How long was Diablo III in development? How many years for this relatively simple top down retro experience? It was announced summer 2008, and by then it was already "far along". Heart of the swarm, an expansion pack is now slated to be released some 3 years after the original game. In that time other decent studios spitting out 1-2 quality products.

Look at the state of diablo 3 at launch. A simplistic game with outdated concepts, no pvp and very little content. The whole "normal, nightmare, hell" element doesnt mask that. Any decent studio would have made a better job than they did if they had those kinds of resources. Its absolutely pathetic that it turned out as bad as it did.
Click to expand...

They are indeed a shadow of what they once were. It's not that they got "bad" necessarily as much as they got lazy as hell and other developers blew past them on numerous levels. Blizzard's budgets got out of control, their developers are weak (every blizzard game looks outdated by at least a handful of years the moment it's shown to the public), they don't listen to their fans, and make numerous empty promises. They are the slowest developer ever, and their finished product does not reflect time and money invested.

SC2 was an outdated coat of paint to SC1, basically a smash and grab of fan cash. D3, as we all know was an utter disaster. And finally "Titan" or whatever has been rebuilt numerous times with numerous key players fired from the project.

Easily the most overrated developer ever as they're a pale shadow of what they once were. They have a hell of a CG outfit behind them though, and I hear they have more life-sized statues of characters in their bathrooms than anyone else combined, well spent financial resources there.
 
Perkel said:
Yeah that is hardly a problem. Sure it was sort off exciting to nag first awesome loot in crazy race but overall it didn't add much to experience.



More like shitty WoW artstyle. D2 was gory satanistic and it had gritty atmosphere.
Click to expand...

WoW is beautiful, stop talking out your ass.
 
dog$ said:
In my opinion, there shouldn't even be a HC mode.

Instead - every new character starts with a halo overhead, and that halo is lost after the first death. At that point, players can voluntarily choose to delete the character or continue to play. No separate modes, no separate economies, no separate player base, and no HC elitist shitheads (not implying that you specifically are one).

The day D3 adds this to the game is the day I quit.

I didn't put all my time into developing my characters just to risk losing it all to people like you.
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You could restrict access to your games if that happened, but instead you'd rather throw temper tantrums at the prospect of other play-styles being allowed. It's the selfishness of people like you that ruin everything.
 
Perkel said:
Yeah that is hardly a problem. Sure it was sort off exciting to nag first awesome loot in crazy race but overall it didn't add much to experience.



More like shitty WoW artstyle. D2 was gory satanistic and it had gritty atmosphere.
Click to expand...
So naked dismembered women and pools of blood is da matoore right?

PoE graphical style, art direction and execution are terrible compared to what it was apping (D2) and can't hold a candle to D3's
 
eot said:
Blizzard has become like an athlete or artist with performance anxiety; their fear of failure is making them fail. They just need to put out more games and stop endlessly iterating without actually making any progress.
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Good observation. That or they really have lost it and are scared shitless at the implications. They don't have a Steam money-printer to fall back on if their core IP's start failing.
 
Oh, so now they suddenly have quality standards again.

There really needs a proper culling at Blizzard. Something is going wrong in the company for too long now.
After years of development all they have to show is a duel button. smh.
 
blizzard is seeing how their pvp ideas can't compare to dota 2 and is probably trying to come up with a way to get something similar. they must realize their dota has no chance either

i don't think current blizard has in it the necessary creativity for something like that though
 
Green Biker Dude said:
blizzard is seeing how their pvp ideas can't compare to dota 2 and is probably trying to come up with a way to get something similar. they must realize their dota has no chance either

i don't think current blizard has in it the necessary creativity for something like that though
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Oh man... the delusions...
 
Why doesn't Jay Wilson get fired for being terrible? Seriously it's not hard to look at what other loot games do well and do that, just copy Disgaea's Item Words or something sheesh.
 
Jira said:
Only a handful of people who worked on D2 worked on D3. Something like 7 or so people. Diablo 3's biggest issue is the pure shit loot, plain and simple. The affixes are as boring and vanilla as they could have possibly designed. There's absolutely nothing interesting to build around, you don't get a Legendary and think oh hell yeah this has +250 poison damage over 4 seconds I'll be using this for a long time like you would in D2. D3 is objectively one of the worst loot games ever created. Good video game, shit tier loot game.
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Yup.
 
Sophia said:
As crudely as he put it, he has a point. Balance and good design are something the current Blizzard doesn't exactly specialize in. They weren't even in the ballpark with WoW and at-launch Diablo 3.
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Probably shouldnt have quoted the second part, it was the first part I was referring to.

As an EQ-player, I completely agree with wow at launch and diablo 3 at launch :p

D3 is good now though, I play regularly.
 
Belgorim said:
Probably shouldnt have quoted the second part, it was the first part I was referring to.

As an EQ-player, I completely agree with wow at launch and diablo 3 at launch :p

D3 is good now though, I play regularly.
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I actually meant WoW now, where PvP balance is almost non-existent thanks to stat inflation + Blizzard's inability to scale balance for PvP. But yeah it's never been exactly hot.

And Diablo 3 is BETTER now, but it could still be so much more.

I wouldn't trust a Blizzard made DOTA right now, as I don't think they really have the captivity or will to give the balancing support it needs.
 
I found D3 fun to play just playing through the story mode, playing with friends.

But the loot in D3 felt shitty and I just wanted to get stuff on auction house.

Haven't played for long time and I always thought I might go back for fun when PvP comes out, but now I feel that won't happen until next expansion.
 
Sophia said:
I actually meant WoW now, where PvP balance is almost non-existent thanks to stat inflation + Blizzard's inability to scale balance for PvP. But yeah it's never been exactly hot.

And Diablo 3 is BETTER now, but it could still be so much more.
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I wouldnt know, not a big wow player, and never even touched pvp.

Diablo 3 could definately be much more, like different challenge modes / ladders etc.. But it is a great game for what it is, and since Blizzard is notoriously slow, expansions with decent content will take time.
 
Kayo-kun said:
I called Blizzard on their bullshit back when everyone was supporting them prior to the release of D3. It's good to see that most of the people are in the same track now and can see how Blizzard have ruined a great franchise.
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Blizzard hasn't stopped with a franchise, they've ruined a once great company at this point.

Mists of Pandaria is the worst expansion they've release for WoW.
StarCraft II was given to us piecemeal for a fucking awful single player campaign and turned what was supposed to be annual expansions into a 2.5 year wait.
I don't even need to begin with Diablo III.

The Blizzard I know stopped existing fully right around when the Lich King died.
 
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