Yeah youre right on brother.
Blizz is really quantifying everything too much these days and everything has to be a system.
World pvp was some of the best stuff I experienced in vanilla.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Blizzard "goes back to the drawing board" with Diablo 3 PvP
- Thread starter Majine
- Start date
Yeah youre right on brother.
Blizz is really quantifying everything too much these days and everything has to be a system.
World pvp was some of the best stuff I experienced in vanilla.
...okay, I'll bite. How?
bee
Member
on seeing this thread, i started up diablo 3 for the 1st time in months, i've changed graphics driver many times since and the game patched itself upto the latest version automatically. anyway the game loads and is instantly a stuttering unplayable mess, exactly the same as it was months ago, never again blizzard
Yeah I don't know where they're coming from on that. Nobody has the right to say that after how god-awful Cataclysm was. Nobody.
Wait... What was wrong with cataclysm?
Anyway, blizzard's problem is that they've stuck their heads so far up their asses that they can't find their way out of it again.
Mostly that they cut out half the planned expansion, took ages to release updates, and added almost nothing for players to do at level cap.
These are all things that could end up happening to MoP, but there's already more content in it now than there was at the end of Cataclysm.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
The story is utterly boring and pointless. It was supposed to have undertones of some greater Alliance/Horde struggle, yet the release and patch 5.1 have hardly progressed this in a reasonable manner aside from a Scenario, a few daily quests, and a handful of regular quests during the leveling process.
Everything is about a daily grind now. You want to spend that VP/JP you got from doing instances? Go grind daily quests. So essentially: You like gameplay X? You have to play gameplay Y in order to reap the benefits of gameplay X. Fantastic thinking.
This also pretty much shits all over the chance for your alts to progress in any meaningful way as it requires you to do mind-numbing tasks all over again for them to properly gear up, and all of this just leads right into LFR's issues.
Then there's the general state of PvP, which as always is fucked. They've tried reworking the statistics and introducing new stats yet again onto an already broken house of cards.
I could go on.
Expand it to WoW in general if you like. The fact that it took them, IIRC an entire year to release MoP after 4.3 is stupefying, but at least the mechanics allowed you to stick to the type of gameplay you wanted to do, and progress a character that way. Mists of Pandria is all about giving players lots and lots of "options" that are quite clearly just annoying chores because they can't think of creating content that's actually fun.
theMrCravens
Member
Have to disagree with this.
I found the campaign awesome and really well done (even got all the achievements for it).
It's a more polished game than Diablo 3 and all of WoW exps, IMO.
You mean besides the fact that there was an entire tier of content missing? Or the massive amount of glitches early on? Or the complete lack of anything non-raid to do near the end of the expansion? Or the bait-and-switch that happened with the design philosophy? Or the fact that the worst raid they've ever made served as endgame content for nearly a year? Or the fact that several features (R.I.P. Path of the Titans) didn't make it into the final game at all?
Yeah, Cataclysm was kinda bad. It unquestionably takes the cake as the worst WoW expansion.
I'm not even going to bother with this too much. A lot of what you're saying is opinion, some of it's half truths, some of it was addressed by Blizzard (alts making progression), some of it will be addressed next patch (rep grinds), and some of it isn't even attributable to the expansion (The State of PvP)
It's hardly comparable to having entire dungeons, raids, and features missing like Cataclysm.
BananaBomb
Member
SMG is the highlight of all gaming to date, fool.
Because even the biggest and most profitable company can't make good PVP of a game obviously not designed for it.
I don't even know how people could see this working. D3 was designed around the auction house. Deal with it.
Green Biker Dude
Banned
you have no idea how big dota 2 is going to get, nor how creatively bankrupt blizzard is. diablo 3 is just the tip of the iceberg. the people who made great games at blizard are mostly gone. most people there are post wow
if activision management hasn't already had a negative effect -- i'm almost sure it did, despite the pr -- it'll start interfering in the next couple of years and things will only get worse. blizzard will go the way of rare
well, "going the way of rare" might be excessive but this blizzard is nothing like the old one. they're just another developer now
BananaBomb
Member
the sc2 campaign is so bad it nearly made me sick. seriously one of the WORST stories i have ever fucking seen after such a good first chapter (i.e. SC1/BW) plus so many fucking completely uninteresting side missions. FUCK blizzard
It's... undertones, yes. All of this is being expanded upon in every patch. 5.1 added the new conflict in Krasarang, 5.2 is adding more faction warring stuff at the Isle of Giants with the Kirin Tor and Sunreavers.
The expansion's not over yet.
And they'e been addressing this. They keep adding ways to earn reputation, and it's still optional. Not optimal perhaps, but none of the gear from the factions are better than what you can get out of raids.
It takes about three days to get to Revered the second time for most factions. What issues does LFR have that's not completely opinionated anyway?
Alts always do content a second time. It's... kind of the point.
PvP's always a mess, like you said. That's no fault of the expansion.
Please do.
BrokenEchelon
Banned
Your counter-arguments are "give it more time" , "they're trying to fix problems", "it only takes 3 days of your life to do boring shit", "that's subjective opinion", and "it has always sucked".
What's the point of going on? According to you it's all a matter of perspective, and I won't bother trying to argue against that, as I'm not trying to convince you that you're wrong. I simply stated my opinion regarding the expansion. The downward spiral of quality in the expansions as a whole is simply a component to the larger failure that is Blizzard's current state of game development.
We'll see what happens with the next quarterly report. I also think they've pissed away all of their goodwill across each of their IPs now. I bought SCII thinking I'd get a full package, so I said ok, maybe it was a fluke. I bought Cataclysm thinking "oh, they're reworking so much, this should be really good" -- joke was on me. I bought Diablo III expecting a sequel to Diablo II and instead got...something else. They're out of IPs for their former fans to still have hope for. They've simply lowered the bar across their entire franchise range at this point.
BananaBomb
Member
to the people defending wow: it died when they released battlegrounds and put net guards in booty bay. get over it.
Do you mean 24 hours times 3 ? So, it just takes 72 hours of grinding to get to revered with a faction.
Sounds like swell time.
Nah. Daily quests can only be done once each day. So he's talking about three hours spread across three days.
The real problem with daily quests isn't the rep grind, but more that they're offensively easy and in the case of Golden Lotus dailies downright boring. They overreacted to Cataclyms's higher difficulty, which is a shame because it was the only GOOD thing to come out of Cataclysm.
maabus1999
Member
Either Blizzard changed on their own or Activision did it to Blizzard, but the end result is the Blizzard of the 90s and early 2000s is long gone and I'm afraid may never come back.
The story in SC2 was awful. The actual campaign was pretty good.
Because your "arguments" are largely subjective and in an MMO where the content is continually growing and the experience evolving, then I should be allowed to bring up where they've rectified on their mistakes. One of the reasons why Cataclysm is so universally despised is that there was no addition or evolution in the game after release. To say that it's the worst expansion they've ever made when they're actively addressing the issues in the engine, design and their predecessors is short-sighted.
You keep weaseling your opinion into my own statements too. I don't dislike the dailies, I've never had an issue with them, I've never found them boring. I don't care for organized PvP, so to say it's a mess isn't the same as it's always sucked. Faction vs. faction is the only thing I've ever cared about, and that's alive and well thanks to the changes they've made in this expansion.
I don't think it's a matter of perspective. You're allowed to dislike the game and the decisions they've made, but to claim it a downward spiral when they're crawling out of a pit made by two games with some actual decent decisions and design is just plain hostility.
D3 was a mess of a launch though. Nobody should be surprised by this when they delayed the launch of PvP from the game.
This is true, especially considering how bad Blizzard All-Stars looks.
But I don't want to restrict access to my games. The Diablo games hinge on social functionality, remember?
I don't play D3 solo at all, as doing so is a soul crushing nightmare. If I had to look out for my cooperative runs grinding to a halt because some asshole wants to be an asshole, I wouldn't enjoy playing the game at that point either.
If you play this game with me, I do everything that I can for us to accomplish the goal (act run, keywarden, uber battle) as quickly as possible. I see no need for the game to accommodate anything which impedes those goals. That makes me selfish? OK.
Interesting how you nonchalantly refer to being a griefing asshole as a "playstyle".
What the hell does dota 2 have to do with anything about this at all? I have probably north of 10k games played in original dota, so I know plenty what it is about and how big it could get.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
I've been calling it even longer. It's only now that the Good Will Tank is empty that the emperor has no clothes for everyone else.
Just on this point i think i will plug and viral market Path of Exile. You only have to look at PoE's builds of the week to see it has a far superior loot and item system, you can build entire characters around a single legendary item.
Case in point 'Mike Tyson' an Unarmed Marauder which uses the Facebreaker unique item to kill enemies in one punch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_EcQDOUN9Y
Art direction is pretty subjective.
If you want to compare PoE and D3, you start by looking at two of the most important features of an arpg. Loot and builds. This is where PoE absolutely storms it, in the two most important features an arpg can have.
Throw in ladders and leagues, special race events, PvP, open beta in January etc. Diablo 2 set the bar for arpgs, Path of Exile has raised it. Diablo 3 is completely redundant at this point, there is no reason whatsoever to play it when Blizzard clearly do not understand the genre. They're just fumbling along at this point, unable to simply get pvp in. We knew all along they don't really know what they're doing, that they don't understand what made Diablo so addictive and enjoyable. Their vision of what pvp should be in the game is another sign they don't understand.
Actually you noticed a distinct change in the company nearing the end of TBC xpac with SWP. Wrath wasn't "bad" but wasn't great and they still didn't implement things they promised even for it. The rampant and disgusting recycling of, well, everything they could took off then. The money obviously wasn't obviously going back into WoW, it was used in the ridiculous budgets of SC2, perhaps D3, and assumingly "Titan". They shit on their WoW fans. They forgot about their SC fans. They obviously don't care about their Diablo fans. They are just a horrible company.
Now, these changes started around the merger/absorption times with Activision, but hey, I was told I was nuts when I said it was going to really impact Blizzard negatively.
Team based PvP is just a bad idea for this game. In fact, tacking on PvP to a PvE centric game doesn't generally work out well. When you build something from the ground up for PvE, you end up with skills and synergies that don't make sense for competitive balanced PvP. This was never going to work out well.
Their fault for not realizing that much before they went around pimping the idea that 'PvP was coming soon'. They will be stoned by the few that were still actively playing and waiting on it, but in the end Im sort of glad that it will go on the back burner. Focus on the core of the game, PvP will suck no matter when they ship it. Balance will be a hot mess, even in duels.
Their fault for not realizing that much before they went around pimping the idea that 'PvP was coming soon'. They will be stoned by the few that were still actively playing and waiting on it, but in the end Im sort of glad that it will go on the back burner. Focus on the core of the game, PvP will suck no matter when they ship it. Balance will be a hot mess, even in duels.
They have more money than any other developer and one of the largest studios in gaming yet could only produce a grand total of 3 content patches over the life of the expansion (21 months). One of which was a rehash of content from 2006.
Team Filler
Member
Yes it makes you selfish, because the game preceding this one catered to both your preferred play-style and mine, and yet you basically said that you would take your ball and go home were Blizzard to implement a hostile/duel button. How about you stop insinuating that the ability to grief is what I and others are asking for when we talk about wanting pvp.
Team Filler
Member
The best part of this whole ordeal is that they seem to think it's some kind of magic, when all they would have to do is give you a pvp on/off toggle for each character, so that they are only matched with others who have the same mode toggled. That's it. Those who enjoy pvp for it's own sake will develop their own types of play out of it, and those that don't like it don't have to opt in/can opt out completely.
GG blizz, now give me my 100k consultant fee.
GG blizz, now give me my 100k consultant fee.
they need to let you pvp with the same character you pve with.
some ideas:
how about "pvp" dungeons randomly out in the open world which are just like any other one off dungeon except you have a chance to invade or being invaded ala dark souls.
Or team based pvp dungeons with 3 floors and some crazy elite pack / treasure chests in the middle of the 2nd floor, one team starts at the top and goes down, the other team starts at the bottom and goes up.
some ideas:
how about "pvp" dungeons randomly out in the open world which are just like any other one off dungeon except you have a chance to invade or being invaded ala dark souls.
Or team based pvp dungeons with 3 floors and some crazy elite pack / treasure chests in the middle of the 2nd floor, one team starts at the top and goes down, the other team starts at the bottom and goes up.
Team Filler
Member
I'd be down for D. Souls-esque PVP, but that might be too clever for the Blizzard of today.
Yeah world pvp in WoW before arenas was really fun. Remember hanging out at crossroads trying to bait horde out of the town to gank was hours of fun. Once arena came about, all that fun ended.
It's quite scary that they just got around to revealing to scrapped the TDM mode when they've been showing it at Blizzcon for the past 2 years. Activision should crack down on the diablo 3 team and check their logs because they've been facebooking or gaffing too much
Trickster
Member
I really doubt activision pushing blizzard in a direction that activision likes, is gonna be to the players advantage, at least not long term.
Yep, people have wanted that for YEARS in WoW. Just give skills modified effects in PvP and leave them alone for PvE. Would solve so many problems, but they refuse for some reason.
fizzelopeguss
Banned
"Simply fighting each other with no other objectives or choices to make gets old relatively quickly."
Damnit jay, no. These kind of games the community makes their own fun and their own rules.
Every month you delay release is another month where expectations grow exponentially.
Damnit jay, no. These kind of games the community makes their own fun and their own rules.
Every month you delay release is another month where expectations grow exponentially.
I think they should just scrap their work with PvP and just enable hostile option on party screen like D2 used.
No.
Dark rooms filled with evil spawn, gothic style buildings (like act 4 church) realistic looking armor and weapons, even diablo 2 desert is more atmospheric than D3 one,
As of PoE that is completely false. Their art is evolution of what D2 did in 2D and aside from that it very good looking game with fantastic art. Act 1 beach isn't looker but prison/caves and Act2 is amazing.
D3 art is good for titan quest like game or torchlite. With D3 they eliminated almost all gore and satanism to get kids onboard and they lost what was awesome about D2 art
If you want comparison then imagine Dark Souls with WoW art style
because that happened with D2>D3
Beside that D3 art is poor in details.
No.
Dark rooms filled with evil spawn, gothic style buildings (like act 4 church) realistic looking armor and weapons, even diablo 2 desert is more atmospheric than D3 one,
As of PoE that is completely false. Their art is evolution of what D2 did in 2D and aside from that it very good looking game with fantastic art. Act 1 beach isn't looker but prison/caves and Act2 is amazing.
D3 art is good for titan quest like game or torchlite. With D3 they eliminated almost all gore and satanism to get kids onboard and they lost what was awesome about D2 art
If you want comparison then imagine Dark Souls with WoW art style
because that happened with D2>D3
Beside that D3 art is poor in details.