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[Fenderputty]

That poster was specifically talking about the earlier difficulties, which loot hasn't changed much for. Paragon levels aren't even available until 60. You still won't find many uniques in the first few difficulties because the drop rate is still trash, without a ton of MF mods, unless you're looking at the AH. Set items aren't even something that can drop pre-60. It's cool that they finally increased loot drops at 60/Inferno, it's less cool that you have to play through the game 3 times with shitty loot before you reach that point.

Every character follows the same simple stat priority which makes loot boring , you are never asking yourself "should I use weapon X or Y?" because the answer is always obvious (whichever has more dps). The AH kills 1-59 loot because you know that, no matter how cool you think the item you just found is, there is going to be something better on the AH for a trivial amount of gold.

Legendary drop rates were increased more for normal-hell than they were for inferno with the 1.0.5 patch. MP levels also increase magic find from the very first level as well. It does this while adding challenge in your quest to get to 60 too. In just powerleveling my recent WD, I ended up with several legendaries on the way to 60 and that was with skipping 50% of the content.

The whole "DPS only matters on weapons" thing is BS too. Granted there isn't much that makes weapons special, but I would take a lower DPS weapons if it had better main stat, or better CD, or native crit and a soc. All things being eqaual, you take the higher DPS, but there's way to sacrifice DPS on a weapon without losing overall DPS output. Monk can build a cheap WKL build around increased lightning damage as an example. My monk is also currently running a build using a weapon swap from a high DPS 2H to a sheild and dagger combo for heavy sweeping wind damage .

Which is why D3 will never be a fun game.

When was the last time you played?

 

[-tetsuo-]

Can't say as much about DOTA 2 (which has 0 valve DNA) or the portal franchise.

Portal can evolve to be more in line with valve's gaming philosophy but then why do it? Valve makes money thanks to steam, game développement is a non factor for them, which is why their last intervally developped game was Episode 2 almost a decade ago.

Wut

 

[Interfectum]

You mean who's deving it beside the various DotA community contractors, WC3's composer and the fact that they are merely converting the game as it exists to the source engine?

lol what the fuck

Interview: The Valve Way - August 29, 2011

How much time have you spent on this project so far?

Erik Johnson: I think it's been about two years.

Gabe Newell: How many people are working on it now?

EJ: At this point it's probably 60 or so people, I think.

Did you recruit a lot for this game?

GN: No -- we don't recruit for games. We recruit people...

EJ: Well, we recruited one.

GN: Well, he recruited us. IceFrog. That's just not -- I mean, anybody who we hire, we don't hire to a specific position or to a specific project. The people at the company don't work on specific projects. Everybody's told, "Your first job is to figure out where you can create the most value." So when people end up working on Dota, it's not because somebody told them to go work on Dota. They go work on Dota 2 because they decided , "That's where I'm going to be the most useful."

EJ: It has this really great side effect, too. Instead of having some person review all the products that are going on at Valve, you can tell how a product's doing based on how willing people are to go and work on it. We know a product's pretty likely to be successful, or fun, or at least fun to work on, if lots of people are going to working on it. It's a good method.

http://www.dota-two.com/the-valve-way

As of August 2011, Valve had 60 people working internally on Dota 2 and had been working on the game for two years up to that point.

 

[Team Filler]

You mean who's deving it beside the various DotA community contractors, WC3's composer and the fact that they are merely converting the game as it exists to the source engine?

At least that lead to improvements to the source engine and steamworks, which are good things. Also I have no doubts that DotA 2 will be a great game, just to clarify that point.

 

[Rokal]

Legendary drop rates were increased more for normal-hell than they were for inferno with the 1.0.5 patch. MP levels also increase magic find from the very first level as well. It does this while adding challenge in your quest to get to 60 too. In just powerleveling my recent WD, I ended up with several legendaries on the way to 60 and that was with skipping 50% of the content.

I believe that, but the drop rate is still poor without the addition of MF gear and Paragon MF. I recently played through most of Act 1 normal on MP10 to see if it made normal difficultly less boring, and found 0 unique items (0 interesting items period, really).

The whole "DPS only matters on weapons" thing is BS too. Granted there isn't much that makes weapons special, but I would take a lower DPS weapons if it had better main stat, or better CD, or native crit and a soc.

What you mean to say is that you would take a slightly lower DPS item if it happened to have better other stats. Weapon DPS is still far-and-away the best stat on items, it dwarfs everything else especially from 1-59.

You take DPS>primary stat>crit/LoH. It's not interesting and you can tell whether an item is better than what you are using within a few seconds of picking it up. Compare that to the itemization in something like Diablo 2. Look at these low level uniques for example:

Weapon dps mattered, but there were plenty of other competitive stats. More importantly, what stats were competitive varied wildly depending on what build your character was going for. There may be a small amount of variation in the 'perfect' item for your D3 character's "build", but your ideal item is still going to be extremely close to the item item of every other character in your class (or even among all classes).

When was the last time you played?

Incidently, I checked out the game again earlier this week to see the changes. It's still a bad loot ARPG.

 

[Zyrusticae]

Legendary drop rates were increased more for normal-hell than they were for inferno with the 1.0.5 patch. MP levels also increase magic find from the very first level as well. It does this while adding challenge in your quest to get to 60 too. In just powerleveling my recent WD, I ended up with several legendaries on the way to 60 and that was with skipping 50% of the content.

The whole "DPS only matters on weapons" thing is BS too. Granted there isn't much that makes weapons special, but I would take a lower DPS weapons if it had better main stat, or better CD, or native crit and a soc. All things being eqaual, you take the higher DPS, but there's way to sacrifice DPS on a weapon without losing overall DPS output. Monk can build a cheap WKL build around increased lightning damage as an example. My monk is also currently running a build using a weapon swap from a high DPS 2H to a sheild and dagger combo for heavy sweeping wind damage .

What?

No, really, what?

You didn't debunk anything at all. You basically just said you'd take a weapon with higher DPS... period. End of story. Crit damage, crit, main stat, they are all just other ways to add to DPS.

That's the problem here. There's nothing interesting about them at all. No +skill, no chance to cast spell on hit, nothing interesting at all! Just things that add to damage and things that add to survivability and that's literally all you ever get.

This is why Diablo 3 is a bad loot game.

Oh, and before you mention legendaries, Diablo 2 had more affix variety on every tier of gear past white.

 

[Fenderputty]

Meh ... maybe you don't like the loot (it's not that bad, IMO the things you just listed aren't that much different than increased native crit / soc / LS% etc etc), but the drop rates have increased a ton. Finding loot now isn't difficult and it should be easy to find items for your character without going to the AH.

The one thing I've never liked about the loot is that elemental damage is just damage. It would be fun to have elemental build for specific content that can only be won by being strong in that element.

I think it's funny anyone would complain about 1-59 though. The game was widley enjoyed 1-59 with the real complaints coming about end game content and impossible progression post 60. Both of which have been improved greatly.

What?

No, really, what?

You didn't debunk anything at all. You basically just said you'd take a weapon with higher DPS... period. End of story. Crit damage, crit, main stat, they are all just other ways to add to DPS.

That's the problem here. There's nothing interesting about them at all. No +skill, no chance to cast spell on hit, nothing interesting at all! Just things that add to damage and things that add to survivability and that's literally all you ever get. This is why Diablo 3 is a bad loot game.

Oh, and before you mention legendaries, Diablo 2 had more affix variety on every tier of gear past white.

With regards to the bolded ... I don't know what you're talking about ... but increase to skills exist on weapons and armor. Maybe you don't like the ones that exist, but they do exist. My WD was farming low level MP with +% to locust swarm on two items. Super fun.


EDIT: people use different builds too. DPS isn't everything. My favorite Wiz to play with doesn't give a shit about DPS and is mostly just a support class for groups. He freezes everything and speeds everyone else in the party up.

 

[Card Boy]

Yeah, I've never understood that. They always refused to do it. The answer is pretty clear as to why, the amount of work it'd require would probably be fairly large....

No excuses this why people pay these selfish assholes $15 a month for, to produce content and maintain servers. Yet they have the ordacity to charge for expansion packs and only produce patches every 10 months.

Pathetic.

 

[HK-47]

You mean who's deving it beside the various DotA community contractors, WC3's composer and the fact that they are merely converting the game as it exists to the source engine?

At least that lead to improvements to the source engine and steamworks, which are good things. Also I have no doubts that DotA 2 will be a great game, just to clarify that point.

You dont know what internally developed actually means, do you?

 

[Perkel]

No excuses this why people pay these selfish assholes $15 a month for, to produce content and maintain servers. Yet they have the ordacity to charge for expansion packs and only produce patches every 10 months.

Pathetic.

15$ a month with 9 mln userbase gives you 135 $ mln a month and 1bln 620mln a year. If we take into account all expanses it would still leave like a bilion of pure profit.

Paying for expansions where they earn that mountain money is biggest scam of gaming.

 

[Zyrusticae]

Meh ... maybe you don't like the loot (it's not that bad, IMO the things you just listed aren't that much different than increased native crit / soc / LS% etc etc), but the drop rates have increased a ton. Finding loot now isn't difficult and it should be easy to find items for your character without going to the AH.

Yes, drop rates have increased, that much is certain.

There's a LOT more affixes that I could list: http://www.diablowiki.com/Affixes_(Diablo_II)#Attack_Effects

- Ignore target defense
- Knockback on hit
- Prevent monster heal
- Faster cast speed
- Faster hit recovery
- Self-repair
- Chance to cast charged bolt/nova/frost nova/hydra when struck
- Chance to cast fire bolt/ice bolt/nova/lightning/chain lightning/amplify damage when attacking
- Freeze/poison length reduction
- Hit causes monster to flee

Something that's also striking between the two games is how they handle 'chance' mechanics. For some strange reason Diablo 3's designers absolutely refuse to use any percentage chance that's higher than 1.5% (wtf?!), whereas in Diablo 2 the lowest chance possible is 5%.

I mean, come on - 1.5% chance to fear on hit? Wtf? Who even wants something that bloody useless? Goddammit, Blizzard!

With regards to the bolded ... I don't know what you're talking about ... but increase to skills exist on weapons and armor. Maybe you don't like the ones that exist, but they do exist. My WD was farming low level MP with +% to locust swarm on two items. Super fun.

They don't exist in any form that's actually worth noting. 5% increase crit chance with a single skill? Whoopdy-friggin'-do! I can get a full set of gear in Diablo 2 that increases the level of all my skills by 10 points, a far more substantial upgrade in every respect, and one that is too complicated to dumb down into a simple "more damage" thanks to the very nature of the skill system.

It's stuff like that that adds complexity and decision-making to the gearing process in Diablo 2 that is completely absent in Diablo 3. You actually have to think about these things!

EDIT: people use different builds too. DPS isn't everything. My favorite Wiz to play with doesn't give a shit about DPS and is mostly just a support class for groups. He freezes everything and speeds everyone else in the party up.

That's nice, but it has nothing at all to do with the itemization system.

 

[Rokal]

I think it's funny anyone would complain about 1-59 though. The game was widley enjoyed 1-59 with the real complaints coming about end game content and impossible progression post 60. Both of which have been improved greatly.

Actually I'm sure if you reviewed the old D3 threads you'd see plenty of people saying "I played dozens of hours to get to the part where the game would start being fun (Inferno), and then that part sucked even more." Normal/Nightmare were too boring for my taste, and all 4 difficulties had massive problems with loot. I expected that the loot problems would go away at 60 (set items! more uniques! NV for MF!) but, because Inferno required such specific stats on gear in order to progress, it only highlighted how bad the loot system actually was.

 

[Maximus.]

I haven't touched this game since a month after launch. Seems like they just can't get their overall shit together. Hope this has led to the firing of some of the people in charge for mishandling what should've been a powerhouse of a game.

 

[Apath]

Starcraft 2 was solid.

I agree to an extent. Where Blizzard went full retard was in the design of Battle.net 2.0. It's probably the best example of "one step forwards, two steps back" I've ever seen.

 

[Perkel]

I haven't touched this game since a month after launch. Seems like they just can't get their overall shit together. Hope this has led to the firing of some of the people in charge for mishandling what should've been a powerhouse of a game.

It's more like they can't do anything because their game mechanics don't really work in PvP which is obvious to anyone who understand math beneath ARPG systems.

And what is more important they can't change mechanics because it would mean essentially creating game which means costs.

 

[Fenderputty]

Yes, drop rates have increased, that much is certain.

There's a LOT more affixes that I could list: http://www.diablowiki.com/Affixes_(Diablo_II)#Attack_Effects

- Ignore target defense
- Knockback on hit
- Prevent monster heal
- Faster cast speed
- Faster hit recovery
- Self-repair
- Chance to cast charged bolt/nova/frost nova/hydra when struck
- Chance to cast fire bolt/ice bolt/nova/lightning/chain lightning/amplify damage when attacking
- Freeze/poison length reduction
- Hit causes monster to flee

Something that's also striking between the two games is how they handle 'chance' mechanics. For some strange reason Diablo 3's designers absolutely refuse to use any percentage chance that's higher than 1.5% (wtf?!), whereas in Diablo 2 the lowest chance possible is 5%.

I mean, come on - 1.5% chance to fear on hit? Wtf? Who even wants something that bloody useless? Goddammit, Blizzard!

Almost everything you just posted exists within this game. Most aren't that useful for farming so people don't look for them though. The game has advanced beyond progression so things like "knockback on hit" do nothing but annoy. Same with fear on hit.

It would be nice if chance to cast "X" spell wasn't useless, but for the most part they are. However, they do exist as well.

The hellfire ring proc is actually really usefull if you're leveling an alt. The proc in inferno does about 25K damage, but it does that same damage in normall too one shotting things.

Actually I'm sure if you reviewed the old D3 threads you'd see plenty of people saying "I played dozens of hours to get to the part where the game would start being fun (Inferno), and then that part sucked even more." Normal/Nightmare were too boring for my taste, and all 4 difficulties had massive problems with loot. I expected that the loot problems would go away at 60 (set items! more uniques! NV for MF!) but, because Inferno required such specific stats on gear in order to progress, it only highlighted how bad the loot system actually was.

Inferno is a cake walk now and doesn't require specific stats anymore because of MP levels. Because of MP levels you can up the challenge too. So if you feel like farming and dropping defensive passives for the sake of a more offensive and faster build, do it and lower the MP. If you feel like a challenge, change to your cookie cutter build and be done with it.


EDIT:

They don't exist in any form that's actually worth noting. 5% increase crit chance with a single skill? Whoopdy-friggin'-do! I can get a full set of gear in Diablo 2 that increases the level of all my skills by 10 points, a far more substantial upgrade in every respect, and one that is too complicated to dumb down into a simple "more damage" thanks to the very nature of the skill system.

.

SIGH ....

The locust swarm example I gave you with a ring and a helm was a 25% increase to locust swarm damage. Quite a bit more than 5% per item. Also a 5% increase for a crit hit is pretty substantial. Especially if you're building a specific build that uses that skill.

That's nice, but it has nothing at all to do with the itemization system.

SIGH ....

It has to do with not focusing on DPS as the most important stat. Something that has been thrown around as a criticism.

 

[Perkel]

Almost everything you just posted exists within this game. Most aren't that useful for farming so people don't look for them though. The game has advanced beyond progression so things like "knockback on hit" do nothing but annoy. Same with fear on hit.

It would be nice if chance to cast "X" spell wasn't useless, but for the most part they are. However, they do exist as well.

The hellfire ring proc is actually really usefull if you're leveling an alt. The proc in inferno does about 25K damage, but it does that same damage in normall too one shotting things.

In case you missed it +dmg +main stat on weapon is essential which means that most of affixes on loot are worthless because there is very small chance to get +dmg +main stat and good affix. Also as somebody mentioned most of those varied affixes are worthless because those are only minimal upgrades.

 

[Zyrusticae]

Almost everything you just posted exists within this game.

You're already wrong there.

Ignore target defense doesn't exist. Knockback on hit exists only as a percentage chance (a really, REALLY low percentage chance, like I mentioned). Prevent monster heal doesn't exist (not that it matters, I don't think there's anything in the game with high regen). Faster cast speed doesn't exist - instead you just have IAS. Faster hit recovery doesn't exist. Self-repair doesn't exist (gee, I wonder why...?). There's nothing in the game that gives you the ability to use skills outside your class (one of the biggest things in Diablo 2). Freeze/poison length reduction doesn't exist (but of course, again, they simplified monster designs so much that these are no longer necessary). Hit causes fear is another one with a horribly low chance to proc, whereas it is 100% chance in Diablo 2.

They could port over a whole bunch of affixes from Diablo 2 and the game would immediately improve for it.

 

[larvi]

I just sold a 215dps white dagger for close to 1m so DPS definitely ain't everything. I would also be more than willing to trade my 1287dps Calamity straight up for a similar one with 100 less dps but with a socket instead of vit.

 

[spirity]

When was the last time you played?

Ok. Say I'd be willing to level up a ranger (or whatever the bow class is called).

How will I find the game. How is it going to compete with TL2 and PoE in terms of interesting, varied loot? I want to come across legendaries and set items before 60. How will I fare?

I guess what I'm saying is this. I don't really want to waste my time on a fruitless item hunt. I want to be rewarded to the same level of PoE. I understand you're saying the item hunt is far better now?

 

[Rokal]

Inferno is a cake walk now and doesn't require specific stats anymore because of MP levels.

I was talking about the original game experience, and what the general consensus was around here about 1-59 when people were actually playing it in large numbers.

They have made some improvements but the biggest problems (1. poor item diversity due to an over-simplified stat system 2. the way the AH diminishes the fun of acquiring good gear) aren't likely ever going to be fixed. Certainly not by this development team anyway which has taken over 6 months (and years of development before that) to say "we don't know how to make pvp fun".

They didn't know how to make the itemization fun either, but that didn't stop them from pushing it out the door and robbing gamers of $60.

 

[Fenderputty]

You're already wrong there.

Ignore target defense doesn't exist. Knockback on hit exists only as a percentage chance (a really, REALLY low percentage chance, like I mentioned). Prevent monster heal doesn't exist (not that it matters, I don't think there's anything in the game with high regen). Faster cast speed doesn't exist - instead you just have IAS. Faster hit recovery doesn't exist. Self-repair doesn't exist (gee, I wonder why...?). There's nothing in the game that gives you the ability to use skills outside your class (one of the biggest things in Diablo 2). Freeze/poison length reduction doesn't exist (but of course, again, they simplified monster designs so much that these are no longer necessary). Hit causes fear is another one with a horribly low chance to proc, whereas it is 100% chance in Diablo 2.

They could port over a whole bunch of affixes from Diablo 2 and the game would immediately improve for it.

Windforce has like 30% - 50% chance to knockback. That's not small. I guess it depends on the item as Strongarm bracers have about 5%, but again. Most people find that annoying now anyway. Especially melee class.

You alredy know why prevent monster heal doesn't exist

You don't have faster cast, but you do have IAS and several weapons have the ability to increase APS period. For example an echoing fury would add .24 to APS and this would also happen to your offhand if you're dual wielding. My echoing furty has a 20% chance to fear as well. Which happens WAY WAY WAY too much with 2.4 APS.

Self repair kinda of exists if you get a weapon that doesn't need to be repaired, and those do exist.

Freeze reduction does exist as well. It's on a ton of rings and ammy in the form of "redcued control affect by such and such pecent". Also useless this stage in the game.

 

[Schweinehund]

While I was put off by d3 I'm glad they aren't rushing things out the door. I'm willing to give the game another shot if they put out a solid expansion.

 

[Fenderputty]

Ok. Say I'd be willing to level up a ranger (or whatever the bow class is called).

How will I find the game. How is it going to compete with TL2 and PoE in terms of interesting, varied loot? I want to come across legendaries and set items before 60. How will I fare?

I guess what I'm saying is this. I don't really want to waste my time on a fruitless item hunt. I want to be rewarded to the same level of PoE. I understand you're saying the item hunt is far better now?

You will not find set items pre 60. You will find legenary items from 1-59 now more common than before. The inclusion of MP levels increases your base MF increasing your odds for yellows and everything else as well to drop. So if you want to start a game now, you can do so with more challenge and more loot dropping.

Now ... that doesn't mean that you'll think it's interesting loot I guess. But you should be able to find loot for your character now without going to the AH. There's a couple people in the community thread who are doing this with HC characters.

Paragon and the hellfire ring increase the games content post 60 now. The uber bosses are enjoyable as well.

I was talking about the original game experience, and what the general consensus was around here about 1-59 when people were actually playing it in large numbers.

They have made some improvements but the biggest problems (1. poor item diversity due to an over-simplified stat system 2. the way the AH diminishes the fun of acquiring good gear) aren't likely ever going to be fixed. Certainly not by this development team anyway which has taken over 6 months (and years of development before that) to say "we don't know how to make pvp fun".

They didn't know how to make the itemization fun either, but that didn't stop them from pushing it out the door and robbing gamers of $60.

Well ... they've solved #2 since you don't need the AH anymore to advance. Ever. You might not like the itemization, but to each their own. IMO the fluid and enjoyable combat make up for that.

Also ... theyv'e stopped punishing people for grouping. Prior to 1.0.4 or 1.0.5 grouping increased mob health by 125% with each person. Now it's only 75 and damage doesn't increase either. They also don't have a pooled MF system so inviting your friends to part isn't an issue if they're not as geared for MF.

 

[DTKT]

Windforce has like 30% - 50% chance to knockback. That's not small. I guess it depends on the item as Strongarm bracers have about 5%, but again. Most people find that annoying now anyway. Especially melee class.

You alredy know why prevent monster heal doesn't exist

You don't have faster cast, but you do have IAS and several weapons have the ability to increase APS period. For example an echoing fury would add .24 to APS and this would also happen to your offhand if you're dual wielding. My echoing furty has a 20% chance to fear as well. Which happens WAY WAY WAY too much with 2.4 APS.

Self repair kinda of exists if you get a weapon that doesn't need to be repaired, and those do exist.

Freeze reduction does exist as well. It's on a ton of rings and ammy in the form of "redcued control affect by such and such pecent". Also useless this stage in the game.

At the same time, the better stats will always be : class-appropriate stat, crit chance, crit damage and maybe IAS but it's not the focus since the last patch. Add vit if you want to go over MP0(which is useless since you want to kill things faster). Knockback, freeze, CC reduction and most unique procs are all useless.

So you effectively reduced Diablo 3 item pool to anything with the core stats and the crit modifier. That's not interesting.

 

[Won]

Man, I wish that the loot was really the only thing that was wrong with the game.

 

[larvi]

At the same time, the better stats will always be : class-appropriate stat, crit chance, crit damage and maybe IAS but it's not the focus since the last patch. Add vit if you want to go over MP0(which is useless since you want to kill things faster). Knockback, freeze, CC reduction and most unique procs are all useless.

So you effectively reduced Diablo 3 item pool to anything with the core stats and the crit modifier. That's not interesting.

They aren't all useless, I've run ubers with a WD that used a 15% azurewrath + other freeze gear to have his pets act like a CM wizard build and it worked pretty well. I've also seen monks run with a 50% para chance sledgefist that can keep stuff pretty much perma-stunned. I also just built a WD on my alt account where her int is her lowest stat at 372 and has only 4396dps and no extra crit chance or damage. What she does have is almost 5K life per second, plus a ton or armor and resists. I can throw her in the middle of an uber encounter and she and her pets will survive the entire time without moving, using skills or healing while my DH deals all the damage.

So there are plenty of interesting builds that can use non-mainstream gear and be effective. Why don't you try something different rather than bitching that everything is cookie cutter?

 

[Perkel]

They aren't all useless, I've run ubers with a WD that used a 15% azurewrath + other freeze gear to have his pets act like a CM wizard build and it worked pretty well. I've also seen monks run with a 50% para change sledgefist that can keep stuff pretty much perma-stunned. I also just built a WD on my alt account where his int is her lowest stat at 372 and has only 4396dps and no extra crit chance or damage. What she does have is almost 5K life per second, plus a ton or armor and resists. I can throw her in the middle of an uber encounter and she and her pets will survive the entire time without moving, using skills or healing while my DH deals all the damage.

So there are plenty of interesting builds that can use non-mainstream gear and be effective. Why don't you try something different rather than bitching that everything is cookie cutter?

Because playing 1-60 and doing AH to have even remotely close character with gear what you described is not fun.

My Witch is lvl 35 in PoE and she is specialized crit/lightning witch with a lot room for improvement in gear and character proggression not even once used trading.

Anything in D3 that is close to specialized build need being lvl 60 and ton of AH. And even when you will have specialized build still it is small change to overall gameplay style.

That is not fun

 

[spirity]

You will not find set items pre 60. You will find legenary items from 1-59 now more common than before. The inclusion of MP levels increases your base MF increasing your odds for yellows and everything else as well to drop. So if you want to start a game now, you can do so with more challenge and more loot dropping.

Now ... that doesn't mean that you'll think it's interesting loot I guess. But you should be able to find loot for your character now without going to the AH. There's a couple people in the community thread who are doing this with HC characters.

Paragon and the hellfire ring increase the games content post 60 now. The uber bosses are enjoyable as well.

Well, loot still sounds bad then, doesn't it? If it isn't as exciting as the loot in TL2 or PoE, I'm wasting my time. I play these games for the loot and how I can use it to manipulate my builds. If the loot thats dropping in D3 is still of a low quality (and it certainly sounds like it is), how are you going to possibly persuade me its worth a shit?

There needs to be huuuuge strides made before D3 can call itself a looter. And it has to start at level 1. Telling people patches has improved the loot isn't any help. D3's itemisation needs to be better than its competitions. Otherwise, whats the point in playing it?

 

[Fenderputty]

At the same time, the better stats will always be : class-appropriate stat, crit chance, crit damage and maybe IAS but it's not the focus since the last patch. Add vit if you want to go over MP0(which is useless since you want to kill things faster). Knockback, freeze, CC reduction and most unique procs are all useless.

So you effectively reduced Diablo 3 item pool to anything with the core stats and the crit modifier. That's not interesting.

I've admitted as such as well. The stats exist, but if you're farming efficiently, you're not interested in those stats and focus on the main ones. I don't see how this would be different for a game like Diablo II though. When was something like kockback ever efficient for farming? If you're still progressing through the game, things like CC reduction and knockback aren't as useless. Things like + to specific skills aren't usless either depending on the build and character.

Bascially my points are this:

1. The loot isn't perfect, but it's better than at launch to 1.0.3

2. The AH isn't needed anymore to progress. Drop rates have increased and the additions of MP levels and paragon post 60 help with this. You can build a character without the AH if you want to now and still progress without hitting the act II brick wall.

 

[Card Boy]

TL2s loot is far better than Diablo 3s but the big problem with that game is you cant make specialized builds like the way you can in PoE. Don't get me wrong it still shits on Diablo 3 in every way possible except for story and graphics, but who plays loot games for the story?

 

[la flama blanca]

You mean who's deving it beside the various DotA community contractors, WC3's composer and the fact that they are merely converting the game as it exists to the source engine?

At least that lead to improvements to the source engine and steamworks, which are good things. Also I have no doubts that DotA 2 will be a great game, just to clarify that point.

Haha, I feel sorry for you man.

 

[larvi]

Because playing 1-60 and doing AH to have even remotely close character with gear what you described is not fun.

My Witch is lvl 35 in PoE and she is specialized crit/lightning witch with a lot room for improvement in gear and character proggression not even once used trading.

Anything in D3 that is close to specialized build need being lvl 60 and ton of AH. And even when you will have specialized build still it is small change to overall gameplay style.

That is not fun

I spent less than 5m to gear her in the AH, definitely not a huge sum and I've subsequently found stuff I could sell in the AH that were worth more than that.

I do agree though that D3 is pretty much all about the end game. The first trip through on normal is fun but the rest between there and 60 is pretty pointless, luckily it doesn't take that long to get to 60. If you want a arpg where you find lots of legendaries and set items as you go then play Sacred 2. You will find a ton of set items and you will always have some neat new item that you need to make a few more levels before you grow into it. I do wish D3 had more of that for sure.

 

[RooMHM]

You mean who's deving it beside the various DotA community contractors, WC3's composer and the fact that they are merely converting the game as it exists to the source engine?

At least that lead to improvements to the source engine and steamworks, which are good things. Also I have no doubts that DotA 2 will be a great game, just to clarify that point.

Everything you said... + Samir Nasri can only lead to facepalm.

 

[Fenderputty]

Well, loot still sounds bad then, doesn't it? If it isn't as exciting as the loot in TL2 or PoE, I'm wasting my time. I play these games for the loot and how I can use it to manipulate my builds. If the loot thats dropping in D3 is still of a low quality (and it certainly sounds like it is), how are you going to possibly persuade me its worth a shit?

There needs to be huuuuge strides made before D3 can call itself a looter. And it has to start at level 1. Telling people patches has improved the loot isn't any help. D3's itemisation needs to be better than its competitions. Otherwise, whats the point in playing it?

To each their own man I guess. IMO D3's loot isn't amazing great, but it's surely not a waste of time either. I played a little of TL2, but didn't enjoy the combat portions of the game as much so ...

And in any case, I'm not trying to persuade anyone from playing PoE or TL2. Their both fine games as well and if you enjoy them more, have at it.

I'm just posting because many of the complaints I was reading seemed like complaints that have been somewhat addressed since 1.0.3 and IMO the game gets more hate than it deserves.

 

[Rokal]

Well ... they've solved #2 since you don't need the AH anymore to advance. Ever. You might not like the itemization, but to each their own. IMO the fluid and enjoyable combat make up for that.

They haven't solved the AH problem. It is no longer mandatory to progress, but it still ruins the fun of finding something cool when you can find that exact same item with much better stats for a small amount of gold in the AH.

Loot ARPGs are about the carrot on the stick of finding cool loot in the next room/chest/boss. The AH removes the carrot and Blizzard expects you to keep chasing an empty stick. The quality of loot is relative to what other loot is easily available and there is no drive to get "good" loot when you already have it (in the form of a small amount of gold). It completely breaks the 1-59 loot experience, especially since items that drop 1-59 are almost always under the level of you and the content you are doing. That sweet level 10 axe you found isn't so awesome when you got it at level 15 and a level 15 axe with better stats is available for almost nothing in the AH. You may not decide to visit the AH to buy said axe, but you always know that no matter what you find, it's trash compared to what is on the AH for almost nothing.

 

[Sothpaw]

This thread is comedy gold. Keep it up guys who haven't played D3 in 4 months.

 

[The Lamonster]

This thread is comedy gold. Keep it up guys who haven't played D3 in 4 months.

It's like Blizzard killed their parents.

 

[cdyhybrid]

They need to bring the Warcraft franchise with them.

 

[Card Boy]

This thread is comedy gold. Keep it up guys who haven't played D3 in 4 months.

I feel sorry for you wasting time on that crap, the loot is only part of that games problems.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

This thread is comedy gold. Keep it up guys who haven't played D3 in 4 months.

Why, has a lot changed?

Is there PvP?

Does the AH and RMAH no longer ruin the entire loot-hunting experience?

Does gear no longer rely on primary stat + VIT to be useful?

Are there more character builds than crit DH?

 

[Won]

It's like Blizzard killed their parents.

Most probably spent more time with Diablo games than with their parents, so there is some truth in there.

 

[Zyrusticae]

This thread is comedy gold. Keep it up guys who haven't played D3 in 4 months.

I still play the game occasionally.

But only for a few hours, because there is literally nothing to keep me playing. No motivation.

The bloody horrible story especially kills my interest in the game every time I approach an act boss with their ridiculous saturday morning cartoon-style villian lines. Good grief!

 

[99%]

I mean, come on - 1.5% chance to fear on hit? Wtf? Who even wants something that bloody useless? Goddammit, Blizzard!

They don't exist in any form that's actually worth noting. 5% increase crit chance with a single skill? Whoopdy-friggin'-do! I can get a full set of gear in Diablo 2 that increases the level of all my skills by 10 points, a far more substantial upgrade in every respect, and one that is too complicated to dumb down into a simple "more damage" thanks to the very nature of the skill system.

It's stuff like that that adds complexity and decision-making to the gearing process in Diablo 2 that is completely absent in Diablo 3. You actually have to think about these things!

I think the main reason is that all these decisions are made by beancounters with calculators now to make sure the game is balanced.

 

[Rokal]

I've admitted as such as well. The stats exist, but if you're farming efficiently, you're not interested in those stats and focus on the main ones. I don't see how this would be different for a game like Diablo II though.

Double check the uniques I linked above. Every single one of the modifiers on those item is potentially useful. Useful enough to take over an item that had higher DPS, easily. If one of those items dropped for me in D2, I'd have to think quite a bit about whether they were better than what I was using. That's what made the loot in D2 so interesting. More useful modifiers, more useful secondary stats (dex on a barb, etc.), and no stat completely dwarfed the others in the way that weapon dps does in D3.

 

[99%]

This thread is comedy gold. Keep it up guys who haven't played D3 in 4 months.

If I play it now will it change my initial experience with the game?

Will I suddenly have an epic first playthrough with a good difficulty curve and no ah to ruin it?

Surely not.

 

[Card Boy]

Why, has a lot changed?

Is there PvP?

Does the AH and RMAH no longer ruin the entire loot-hunting experience?

Does gear no longer rely on primary stat + VIT to be useful?

Are there more character builds than crit DH?

You forgot

- online drm / offline mode
- LAN
- Charms / runewords
- Proper Randomized areas
- Ladders / Leagues
- Allowing custom allocation of stat points
- Server broswers

 

[Fenderputty]

They haven't solved the AH problem. It is no longer mandatory to progress, but it still ruins the fun of finding something cool when you can find that exact same item with much better stats for a small amount of gold in the AH.Loot ARPGs are about the carrot on the stick of finding cool loot in the next room/chest/boss. The AH removes the carrot and Blizzard expects you to keep chasing an empty stick. The quality of loot is relative to what other loot is easily available and there is no drive to get "good" loot when you already have it (in the form of a small amount of gold). It completely breaks the 1-59 loot experience, especially since items that drop 1-59 are almost always under the level of you and the content you are doing. That sweet level 10 axe you found isn't so awesome when you got it at level 15 and a level 15 axe with better stats is available for almost nothing in the AH. You may not decide to visit the AH to buy said axe, but you always know that no matter what you find, it's trash compared to what is on the AH for almost nothing.

This sounds more like a problem with you and your perception of fun rather than the AH itself. If you don't want to use the AH, why in Gods' name would you care that it existed and items could be found for cheap? Pretend it doesn't exist and progress without using it. It's now possible.

 

[99%]

Double check the uniques I linked above. Every single one of the modifiers on those item is potentially useful. Useful enough to take over an item that had higher DPS, easily. If one of those items dropped for me in D2, I'd have to think quite a bit about whether they were better than what I was using. That's what made the loot in D2 so interesting. More useful modifiers, more useful secondary stats (dex on a barb, etc.), and no stat completely dwarfed the others in the way that weapon dps does in D3.

However handy it may be, in D3 you can just glance at the dps stat and be like yay or nay.

In D1/2 you had to think about this stuff so you just didnt discard a whole inventory like that.

In d3 almost all loot is trash, there is too much loot in general and it means nothing.

 

[99%]

This sounds more like a problem with you and your perception of fun rather than the AH itself. If you don't want to use the AH, why in Gods' name would you care that it existed and items could be found for cheap? Pretend it doesn't exist and progress without using it. It's now possible.

AH is a ingame feature how can you pretend it doesnt exist?

Its like suggesting that you dont use potions if you think the game is too easy or not use a m16 in counter strike.

"You complain the game is easy? Why not use a trackball, seems like the problem is you if you play it with a mouse. My cousin Tony played the game with his flacid penis and it was really hard."