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[AJUMP23]

I watched the first episode and it was good. I will watch the rest. I was surprised by the length of the episode but it was good given all the ground it covered.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

*opens thread and clicks through several pages and doing ctrl+f for "woke"
50+ instances.....
lol.....never change GAF.

The show is good guys.

 

[FUBARx89]

Watched like 4 episodes, still dislike the stupid sunglasses.

 

[Thaedolus]

Or people just genuinely demand different things from their stories...

Or that, but have fun finding anything that checks all the boxes of total realism. So long as a narrative is internally consistent and I can keep suspending my disbelief, I can find enjoyment in things that aren’t hyper realistic.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Or that, but have fun finding anything that checks all the boxes of total realism.

Another misrepresentation of your opponents position.

 

[CoreyFlawless]

Love it. Great show. Also, they seem to hate white ppl didn’t care about being bully and hated by everyone around you cause you are mix and that they will kill you. Nope just want to kill your father and the other white ppl that come in too for help making you. To take out your hatred on them cause the purebreds hates you. Should had been a vampire show or something.

 

[Thaedolus]

Another misrepresentation of your opponents position.

Just curious: can you re-articulate your actual position? Because I’m through episode 5 now and there’s a ton of backstory told through flashbacks which explains why Mizu is how she is. Nothing feels “woke” or “Mary Sue” or “unearned.” (Those aren’t quotes I’m attributing to you)

This just feels like a solid fuckin action drama which pulls no punches and the complaints seem to be really…cookie cutter YouTube discourse to me

 

[AJUMP23]

Episode 2 is the most animated nakedness I have ever seen.

 

[Thaedolus]

Episode 2 is the most animated nakedness I have ever seen.

(French-produced anime, go figure)

 

[Thaedolus]

One criticism I have is if I hear this fucking song in one more piece of media I’m gonna lose it:



It totally took me out of it when it showed up. Like JFC this is the Wilhelm scream of “badass intro song” at this point

For Whom the Bell Tolls to start an episode had the absolute opposite effect. LFG!

 

[_Justinian_]

Just watched the first three episodes last night. It's...different. I'll give it that.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Episode 2 is the most animated nakedness I have ever seen.

Were they are fugly? Which is usually the case with most "Western Anime"

 

[AJUMP23]

Were they are fugly? Which is usually the case with most "Western Anime"

Mix. It wax mostly male nudity.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Mix. It wax mostly male nudity.

Cough Cough





WOKE

 

[AJUMP23]

Cough Cough





WOKE

Netflix. Probably one of the most woke content creators in existence.

 

[NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt]

Netflix. Probably one of the most woke content creators in existence.

Not surprised

 

[PlayofSparta]

I watched the entire season in 1 day. Fucking amazing.

 

[Toons]

Its legit hard to talk about anything on this site anymore without it devolving into just complete nonsensical culture war BS, and thats sad.

A protagonist being really good at something should not give you pause in year of our lord 2023. No one asked why trinity was so good at what she did in matrix. No one asked for a training montage. She was just THAT good.

 

[Kar]

Its legit hard to talk about anything on this site anymore without it devolving into just complete nonsensical culture war BS, and thats sad.

A protagonist being really good at something should not give you pause in year of our lord 2023. No one asked why trinity was so good at what she did in matrix. No one asked for a training montage. She was just THAT good.

In todays world, Trinity would be gay as fuck.
And noticing woke shit is not exclusive to neogaf.

 

[ShirAhava]

This would have been considered a bog standard anime in the late 90s

in 2023 its a standout other than the mid 2000s nickelodeon art direction

7.5/10

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Its legit hard to talk about anything on this site anymore without it devolving into just complete nonsensical culture war BS, and thats sad.

A protagonist being really good at something should not give you pause in year of our lord 2023. No one asked why trinity was so good at what she did in matrix. No one asked for a training montage. She was just THAT good.

Believability in fiction has been a talking point since the dawn of time. This is not a topic that was brought to us by "the culture war".

Im sure you know this, but Trinity being a badass in The Matrix is completely different considering the narrative makes it significantly more plausible.

 

[Toons]

In todays world, Trinity would be gay as fuck.

What does who she likes to sleep with have to do with her ability to fight computer programs and wear shiny black leather?

And noticing woke shit is not exclusive to neogaf.

I never said it was.

Believability in fiction has been a talking point since the dawn of time. This is not a topic that was brought to us by "the culture war".

Im sure you know this, but Trinity being a badass in The Matrix is completely different considering the narrative makes it significantly more plausible.

No it doesn't lol. If anything, the dudes shes kicking the asses of in the movie are agents with superhuman abilities created by alien supercomputers so they should be even harder to take down than some samurai.

She still kicks their asses. And no one questioned it. Because as I said, there was a time you didn't have to explain WHY someone was good at something in a movie, they could just tell you "this character is really good at this thing" and you didn't have to demand a training montages.

There are many; many other examples of this i could give, like Leia, lara croft, and even Furiosa. The culture war has indeed invited selective overanalyzation and overcorrection to fix a problem that was never there before.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

No it doesn't lol. If anything, the dudes shes kicking the asses of in the movie are agents with superhuman abilities created by alien supercomputers so they should be even harder to take down than some samurai.

She still kicks their asses. And no one questioned it. Because as I said, there was a time you didn't have to explain WHY someone was good at something in a movie, they could just tell you "this character is really good at this thing" and you didn't have to demand a training montages.

There are many; many other examples of this i could give, like Leia, lara croft, and even Furiosa. The culture war has indeed invited selective overanalyzation and overcorrection to fix a problem that was never there before.

No. Her understanding she's in a digital simulation provides the plausible explanation for why she can do crazy ****.

No. Believability has always been a topic of discussion in fiction.

 

[Toons]

No. Her understanding she's in a digital simulation provides the plausible explanation for why she can do crazy ****.

No. Believability has always been a topic of discussion in fiction.

Believability has always been a topic applied SELECTIVELY. The parameters for that believability have changed dramatically however even still.

The examples I listed, none of them are shown doing ANY training at any point. Yet they are not questioned when shown being competent in combat, or various other skilled tasks. We can also throw Ripley in there, i know thats the obvious one and redundant but it also applies.

Most of the characters knew they were in a simulation in matrix. Yet, she's considered the best fighter of them all by far and saves Neos ass on multiple occasions.

Another more modern era character is ilsa faust from the mission impossible movies. Shes introduced as an ex agent who is simply really good at basically everything, guns, translation, espionage, subterfuge.... shes awesome. no one batted an eye far as I know.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Believability has always been a topic applied SELECTIVELY. The parameters for that believability have changed dramatically however even still.

Different people have different standards for what's plausible and what isn't.

The examples I listed, none of them are shown doing ANY training at any point. Yet they are not questioned when shown being competent in combat, or various other skilled tasks. We can also throw Ripley in there, i know thats the obvious one and redundant but it also applies.

I don't know what you're referring to here. Who has issues with Ripley from Aliens?

Most of the characters knew they were in a simulation in matrix. Yet, she's considered the best fighter of them all by far and saves Neos ass on multiple occasions.

All the characters in the Matrix have different levels of understanding about The Matrix. Spirituality and wisdom are not gendered so Trinity understanding her reality better than others is completely plausible.

The Blue Eye Samurai girl kicking butt despite being significantly smaller and having access to inferior training is not. She needs the blue moonstone to give her supernatural abilities for it to make sense. Instead, she tosses 3 trained Samurai through a wall because the ResetERA algorithm demanded it.

Another more modern era character is ilsa faust from the mission impossible movies. Shes introduced as an ex agent who is simply really good at basically everything, guns, translation, espionage, subterfuge.... shes awesome. no one batted an eye far as I know.

I don't know who this is, but modern movies are filled with overt "girl power" pandering. If this Isla Faust is beating Ving Rames in arm wrestling, I will join you in saying it's crappy writing.

 

[Toons]

Different people have different standards for what's plausible and what isn't.

Which inherently throws into question the entire conversation surrounding this as it pertains to quality of a work.

I don't know what you're referring to here. Who has issues with Ripley from Aliens?

No one. Thats the point. She also displays expertise at things she shouldn't have, and is adept in handling a situation none of the crew are prepared for.

All the characters in the Matrix have different levels of understanding about The Matrix. Spirituality and wisdom are not gendered so Trinity understanding her reality better than others is completely plausible.

The Blue Eye Samurai girl kicking butt despite being significantly smaller and having access to inferior training is not. She needs the blue moonstone to give her supernatural abilities for it to make sense. Instead, she tosses 3 trained Samurai through a wall because the ResetERA algorithm demanded it.

So what you're saying is you'll only accept an instance of a female defeating a male in an explicitly fantastical series if magic is involved? This is just more proof of selective eyes for these things.

Tossing people through a wall isn't that hard given the time period and pretty much everyone around having some familiarity with martial arts. Theres always a rule of cool and a loose interpretation of physicality to make a more exciting action sequence, and this hardly goes beyond that.

I watched Bane in the dark knight rises bunch though a cement pillar with his bare hands. Ive watched Tom cruise play a 50 something year old being hit by a moving car, getting up and continuing to run. I've seen Arnold swarzenegger throw a combat knife with enough force to pin a man to a tree. All of these are unrealistic, not one questions them.

I don't know who this is, but modern movies are filled with overt "girl power" pandering. If this Isla Faust is beating Ving Rames in arm wrestling, I will join you in saying it's crappy writing.

Im not saying she's written poorly, I think she's awesome.

You and no problem with the bride defeating 80 trained adult male warriors on her lonesome did you? I thought it was a pretty cool action scene.

Sometimes you can just let entertainment be entertainment. Its not always some statement. Sometimes it's just cool.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

No one. Thats the point. She also displays expertise at things she shouldn't have, and is adept in handling a situation none of the crew are prepared for.

What did Ripley display an expertise in that seemed unrealistic to you?

So what you're saying is you'll only accept an instance of a female defeating a male in an explicitly fantastical series if magic is involved? This is just more proof of selective eyes for these things.

I think history has a lot of fascinating examples of females besting males when it comes to combat. They are never through brute force though. It's always through something females aren't innately inferior at.

To me, the asymmetry found in nature is valuable and interesting. When your writers go "Who cares about natures asymmetry, we'll just have our protagonist win because...derp... girl power, it strikes me as lazy and uninteresting. Good fiction leads the audience to think "How is our protagonist going to get out of this jam?" You never feel that way watching BES because the writers equipped her with magic woman strength.

Isn't there an Ernest Hemingway quote about the importance of truth being found in fiction?

Btw, I'm equally as unimpressed by the John Wick movies where Keanu Reeves wins because...herp derp...he's the main character in the movie. Watching him music video his way through nightclub after nightclub is a bore.

Tossing people through a wall isn't that hard given the time period and pretty much everyone around having some familiarity with martial arts.

I didn't see it that way at all. She threw 3 guys through a wall because it's easy to do so and their target audience won't care. It's as silly as Steve Buscemi playing the muscle in a movie. Steve Buscemi isn't the muscle. Steve Buscemi is the pedophile in Con Air who preys on the weak.

I watched Bane in the dark knight rises bunch though a cement pillar with his bare hands. Ive watched Tom cruise play a 50 something year old being hit by a moving car, getting up and continuing to run. I've seen Arnold swarzenegger throw a combat knife with enough force to pin a man to a tree. All of these are unrealistic, not one questions them.

I would argue all 3 scenarios are significantly more plausible than the stuff found in BES.

Myth like violence has historically been the realm of men. We can buy Arnold doing unrealistic stuff because he looks like a Greek God.

Im not saying she's written poorly, I think she's awesome.

You and no problem with the bride defeating 80 trained adult male warriors on her lonesome did you? I thought it was a pretty cool action scene.

There's a difference between Kill Bill in 2003 and Netflix producing their 500th "woman strong + good, men weak and bad" show. Kill Bill didn't give off immense ESG, DEI, WEF vibes like BES does.

 

[Zathalus]

Watched it, thought it was great. Where her skill came from was pretty obvious, watching different Samurai performing moves and then practicing the shit out of them for years on end. A pretty common Anime trope really.

 

[Thaedolus]

There's a difference between Kill Bill in 2003 and Netflix producing their 500th "woman strong + good, men weak and bad" show. Kill Bill didn't give off immense ESG, DEI, WEF vibes like BES does.

This is peak YouTube brain

 

[isual]

Genuinely enjoyed this show on netflix. It was different; but most likely because of the violence and sex, but the story about revenge was entertaining.

 

[DeafTourette]

Her strength was addressed, her training was addressed, her swordmaster was someone she prayed for because she loved him like a father... No one knew she was a girl because she hid it. So many of these criticisms are answered in the first 3 episodes.

 

[ThatStupidLion]

couldnt get through it mainly due to the art direction and 3D anime. Its just very jarring from my perspective.

 

[Burger]

I thought this was fantastic. Felt like it drew a lot of inspiration from Shogun by James Clavell.

 

[jason10mm]

Her strength was addressed, her training was addressed, her swordmaster was someone she prayed for because she loved him like a father... No one knew she was a girl because she hid it. So many of these criticisms are answered in the first 3 episodes.

I think technically you are correct, but I felt that a lot of the issues I had with this show were due to tone and just feeling unearned by the writing.

Take her strength for example. She is wearing steel arms and leg braces the whole time. This was great for that "You don't know this, but I'm not left handed" type scene where she drops the weights to improve her speed. Buuuuuut the character design does NOT fit. She is a very slim wisp of a girl, not someone that looks like they are walking around with 10 pounds on each limb and has been training to fight every day since childhood.

Then she transforms these things into a spear, something that was totally out of left field (for me), and that becomes her weapon of choice for half the show, not her sword. The same sword that featured so prominently in the first half, has this mysterious exotic origin, and ends up being totally irrelevant. They teased this GREAT plot that she could be possessed by a demon and that explains her abilities but nope.....

She shows great skill in the first half of the show, so you can kinda buy that she is a bit of a prodigy plus some fancy tricks along with the ego of some of her opponents, but by the end she is straight up impervious to pain, an arrow through her Achilles is just flesh wound, and she is DECIMATING legions with ease.....until she runs into a big fat irishman who ragdolls her. So the show started off fairly grounded but ended up in Dynasty Warriors levels of gameness.

Then there is her gender. She is straight up a girl. Talks like a girl, looks like a girl, built like a girl. Apparently all she has to do is put on some yellow glasses and dress in a slightly different robe and suddenly she is 100% convincing as a man. This never felt earned in the show, and ultimately other than getting through a gate in some scene, I'm not sure it even had any relevance to the plot. It serves for some "sexist japanese" bits but I never thought that this contrivance was worth it, versus just having her be an onna-musha/bugeisha from the get go and dealing with that level of interaction. Given the highly gendered aspects of japanese society, I felt that this should have played into the show more, like an extended bit where she, dressed as a man, failed to act "man enough" in some ways, or had to play a woman but did so very poorly because she was untutored in all that was expected of her (though I realize she did live as a woman for at least a few years). If you are gonna do the sex swap thing, you ought to lean into it.

Anyway, I did enjoy most of the show from a visual level, though I greatly preferred the grounded feel of the first half of the season versus the more outlandish second half. Hopefully the move to london will bring in some interesting elements beyond just having japanese aesthetics trump dirty english every time. I can already see the temptations the writiers are facing in my head and I hope they can restrain themselves.

 

[flipme]

Episode 5 was one of the greatest animated stories I've ever seen - while it finishes well the remaining epsidoes can;t reach that high

Great write up here about it once you've watched it

https://www.inverse.com/culture/fantasy-tv-shows-november-2023-netflix-blue-eye-samurai

Blue Eye Samurai Episode 5 is a perfect example of what episodic TV storytelling can produce. It wouldn’t work without the foundation provided by the four chapters that precede it, nor could it stand on its own as a feature film.

The episode can exist only how it does, which is as a structurally ambitious, nesting-doll experiment in visual storytelling that both redefines everything you’ve seen before it and propels the show’s overarching narrative forward.

 

[Jsisto]

I think technically you are correct, but I felt that a lot of the issues I had with this show were due to tone and just feeling unearned by the writing.

Take her strength for example. She is wearing steel arms and leg braces the whole time. This was great for that "You don't know this, but I'm not left handed" type scene where she drops the weights to improve her speed. Buuuuuut the character design does NOT fit. She is a very slim wisp of a girl, not someone that looks like they are walking around with 10 pounds on each limb and has been training to fight every day since childhood.

Then she transforms these things into a spear, something that was totally out of left field (for me), and that becomes her weapon of choice for half the show, not her sword. The same sword that featured so prominently in the first half, has this mysterious exotic origin, and ends up being totally irrelevant. They teased this GREAT plot that she could be possessed by a demon and that explains her abilities but nope.....

She shows great skill in the first half of the show, so you can kinda buy that she is a bit of a prodigy plus some fancy tricks along with the ego of some of her opponents, but by the end she is straight up impervious to pain, an arrow through her Achilles is just flesh wound, and she is DECIMATING legions with ease.....until she runs into a big fat irishman who ragdolls her. So the show started off fairly grounded but ended up in Dynasty Warriors levels of gameness.

Then there is her gender. She is straight up a girl. Talks like a girl, looks like a girl, built like a girl. Apparently all she has to do is put on some yellow glasses and dress in a slightly different robe and suddenly she is 100% convincing as a man. This never felt earned in the show, and ultimately other than getting through a gate in some scene, I'm not sure it even had any relevance to the plot. It serves for some "sexist japanese" bits but I never thought that this contrivance was worth it, versus just having her be an onna-musha/bugeisha from the get go and dealing with that level of interaction. Given the highly gendered aspects of japanese society, I felt that this should have played into the show more, like an extended bit where she, dressed as a man, failed to act "man enough" in some ways, or had to play a woman but did so very poorly because she was untutored in all that was expected of her (though I realize she did live as a woman for at least a few years). If you are gonna do the sex swap thing, you ought to lean into it.

Anyway, I did enjoy most of the show from a visual level, though I greatly preferred the grounded feel of the first half of the season versus the more outlandish second half. Hopefully the move to london will bring in some interesting elements beyond just having japanese aesthetics trump dirty english every time. I can already see the temptations the writiers are facing in my head and I hope they can restrain themselves.

Fair criticisms IMO. While I did like the show as a whole, I really didn’t like the main character at all. This can work in a longer series where she opens up, grows as a person becomes more likable as it goes on, but already the first season she comes across as miserable, not nice to anyone and generally unlikable.

 

[jason10mm]

Fair criticisms IMO. While I did like the show as a whole, I really didn’t like the main character at all. This can work in a longer series where she opens up, grows as a person becomes more likable as it goes on, but already the first season she comes across as miserable, not nice to anyone and generally unlikable.

Yeah, I kinda withheld my feelings about that because I think I have a pretty strong bias towards male anti-hero types in this mold that isn't really fair towards the female versions of it. But thats because I think the negative aspects of this character archetype is better represented with men in general. Mizu, for someone on a destructive path of revenge at all costs, didn't really seem to have many problems or repercussions from it. She was still attractive and could land any guy she wanted. She didn't seem bothered by losing time for children. She gained the loyalty of others with virtually no effort despite rarely reciprocating. I feel like I tolerate those personality traits in a guy like Reacher/Banshee (who, let's be honest, is a virtually identical archetype) than a, say, Mare of Eastwood/Danvers&Navarro [True Dectective s4] character and I suspect, for me, it's the gender that is the critical thing. Lone Wolves work for me as men, not so much as women, despite Hollywood throwing dozens of them at me each year and some prominent historical models on which to base them. There is a male power fantasy aspect to it for sure.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Yeah, I kinda withheld my feelings about that because I think I have a pretty strong bias towards male anti-hero types in this mold that isn't really fair towards the female versions of it. But thats because I think the negative aspects of this character archetype is better represented with men in general. Mizu, for someone on a destructive path of revenge at all costs, didn't really seem to have many problems or repercussions from it. She was still attractive and could land any guy she wanted. She didn't seem bothered by losing time for children. She gained the loyalty of others with virtually no effort despite rarely reciprocating. I feel like I tolerate those personality traits in a guy like Reacher/Banshee (who, let's be honest, is a virtually identical archetype) than a, say, Mare of Eastwood/Danvers&Navarro [True Dectective s4] character and I suspect, for me, it's the gender that is the critical thing. Lone Wolves work for me as men, not so much as women, despite Hollywood throwing dozens of them at me each year and some prominent historical models on which to base them. There is a male power fantasy aspect to it for sure.

You seem to really lean into the beauty of men.

You think about things on a very deep level but you go so far that it becomes too demanding. You seem to base everything on your understanding of the world, and not the actual tv shows understanding of how things work.

What media out there do you actually like and don’t nitpick?

 

[SirTerry-T]

Netflix need to run Serei No Moribito again.