-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bojack Horseman Season 4 |OT| Fuck Man, What Else Is There To Say
- Thread starter TheGreatDirector
- Start date
BrokenIcarus
Member
Ugh, I can't believe it's over already, best season for me. Reaaallyyy enjoyed it. Now to wait for season 5 
Captin Quacker
Member
Last season Mr. Pb filled there house up with colanders and forgot why
There's cute, and then there's WTF
The_Inquisitor
Member
They better make a season 5.
So I guess Mr PeanutButter and Diane are basically going to be divorcing next season? Where does this leave Bojack and Diane?
Feel like that should be the end
The_Inquisitor
Member
Think so as well. Feel like this was more a less a setup for the final season
Vincent Alexander
Member
Just watched first episode last night. That was not good. Proves to me Bojack is the glue that holds the show together.
Hopefully just as friends. At this point I don't want to see Bojack and Diane together.
Aarglefarg
Member
It reminded me of the Rural Juror episode of 30 Rock: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6YDyjOimInA
I feel like
romance
make a "will they/won't they" plot last the entire series without making it feel contrived.
At the same time, huge age gaps always make me feel uncomfortable, so I'd prefer if it went another direction.
Just saw ep 7. Could that have been the funniest ep in the whole series? Could not believe that was actually
and
doing the voices until the credits rolled. Holy hell.
I'm not on episode 11 yet, but fuck, why is it ALWAYS episode 11 with this show?
Zach Braff
Jessica Biel
I'm not on episode 11 yet, but fuck, why is it ALWAYS episode 11 with this show?
Alcotholic
Banned
Its the standard structure of Bojack. It builds up drama throughout the season and hits the climax at episode 11, then has a good resolution (being episode 12).
It's good consistency, honestly, especially with the quality of comedy and drama they produce.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
That's what I noticed with Season 3 and now 4 as well, the episode before the finale is the real 'climax' of the season's main theme and storyline, while the finale is more the wrap-up resolution and setting up what's to come next. Season 1 was a drug-fueled trip for the pre-finale, Season 2 had Bojack run off to New Mexico to be with his distant friend and meet her daughter, Season 3 was him and Sarah Lynn running from their lives with the observatory closer for Sarah, and then this season... Well, yeah.
It's all good, as I think it's a wonderful way to handle the climax, and often produces some of the most powerful episodes of the show, which are slowly built up to the point by the season itself. The episodes are usually both distinctively different than most of the rest of the season, but also encapsulating what they were building up to the whole season and shed a lot of light on something the whole season was focused on. It works well, a lot of network television can't do this because more tune into the season finale than the pre-season finale, but in a freeform like Netflix where people can binge it at their own pace whenever, they can do whatever they want with it really.
Alcotholic
Banned
That's a good point. I hadnt thought of it from a streaming vs network tv perspective.
I also kinda like that bojack seasons don't end with cliff hangers. Like, we have questions, but I don't feel like I've been cheated.
Yeah I just finished ep 7 myself and thought it was hilarious, especially the guy who kept having orgasms.
Roronoa Zoro
Gold Member
Through season 5 game of thrones always seemed to follow this structure as well where the most actiony parts would be in the second to last episode
It's probably a small thing but 9 got me though I should have seen it coming
The whole framing device gave me a lot of hope and tricked me into thinking it would be alright pluz the future was convincing for this world though I founded it weird on the contradictions regarding the necklace but it hit me with Caroline saying she imagine her granddaughter telling this story. Then me even waiting for the credits hoping it wasn't fake and then got sad.
I think it's supposed to be that Diane wanted to keep the Belle room on a pedestal and bringing it to life would ruin the magic behind the idea.
Edit: To expand a bit.
Diane knew it was a superficial thing that wouldn't make her happy. And the fact that Mr.
Peanutbutter gave it to her is representative of the fact that their marriage only works on a superficial level.
Peanutbutter gave it to her is representative of the fact that their marriage only works on a superficial level.
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
There are some exceptions, and GoT fiddled with it too. I also have seen some other examples, but for most shows the highest viewership will always be in the season premiere and finale, so most often things are packed more in those than other points. But that's not nearly as much of a concern for a series released all at once like Bojack without needing to care about TV Ratings as much, people can choose to watch it all at once or space it for themselves, and they can choose to watch it at any time easily. Due to that sort of freedom, they don't have to come up with something that'll keep viewers coming back week by week and not have the biggest push/viewership with the premiere and the finale airs.
It's just interesting to observe. I think for storytelling having the climax a bit earlier and the resolution after has some great benefits, but for many they try to pack the most impactful stuff in the finale (not to say the resolutions in Bojack aren't impacting, but I think most would agree the climax of the season arc in Bojack is always the episode before the finale rather than the finale itself).
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I'm in a similar but somewhat different boat.
I knew that the 'future' wasn't the actual future, it was way too optimistic and ungrounded for the show (by ungrounded, obviously I don't mean realistic as the show takes some liberties, but one thing about Bojack is the world its in is pretty consistent and with some weight to it, so to suddenly have some "years later" future thing where technology has advanced greatly and seems rather optimistic for the show made me know immediately there's no way this is what it says it is. However, I didn't put together it was just her fantasy and it had the same impact on me. I should've realized as more inconsistencies came up, with the child not being born, the necklace, and other bits and pieces. But it was an impacting finale to me.
Princess Carolyn is among my favorites of the cast. Her issues and life are completely different than mine so I don't relate to it in the same way as some of the other characters, but I can understand a lot of where she's coming from and they both characterize her well and have her with depth so even if you don't come from the same issues she has to deal with, you definitely can feel for her.
Yup, it's a situation where Diane doesn't actually want these things, it's more she likes the fantasy of having it. Diane's whole arc in the show is she doesn't really know what she wants and how things that should make her happy make her unhappy, and things that should make her unhappy make her happy. Mr. Peanutbutter has nothing but the best intentions, and he's understandably upset he tries so hard so often and what he does she doesn't seem grateful for. Peanutbutter on the surface is being an ideal husband, listening to his wife, caring about what she wants, trying to provide for her, being loyal and loving. But the problem the two of them are facing is they don't understand each other, they come from completely different worlds and viewpoints. On the surface it seems like Peanutbutter is being perfect and Diane is constantly being a bitch to him, but the truth is Peanutbutter is being a one size fits all, he's doing more of these outlandishly good things for himself, he thinks it's for Diane, and in some way it is, but it isn't really what Diane wants. and he doesn't understand that as he doesn't really understand Diane. In fairness, Diane doesn't understand herself. She knows all of these things SHOULD make her happy, and Peanutbutter isn't doing anything but try his best for her, but the real problem they have is that they don't understand how to work with the other. They're basically being incompatible by their lack of understanding themselves, each other, an uneven balance in the relationship (another big part of this is Diane seems she wants to be the provider I notice, she seems she wants to be the special thing in Penautbutter's life, but Peanutbutter loves a lot of things and is basically a provider and giver himself. as a result, Diane's somewhat selfish but human trait of not wanting to be catered too and give something back for the happiness she gets from something is undermined by Peanutbutter always trying to surprise her and not really include her in on things by trying to do outlandish things for her, but not really the things she wants more like dreams best kept as dreams.), and simply them not being able to connect well yet. Another big part of it I'm pretty sure is Diane feels she doesn't deserve it, so to just have these things all laid onto her by Peanutbutter's whims is alienating her and making her more distant.
TheWorthyEdge
Member
Finished. I LOVED it.
The ending made me tear up and so did Ep.11. Did NOT expect the season to go the way it did. Fantastic.
Last ep spoilers:
^ yeah. Pretty much...and I don't like it :/
The ending made me tear up and so did Ep.11. Did NOT expect the season to go the way it did. Fantastic.
Last ep spoilers:
Diane and Mr.
Peanutbutter. God dammit. Diane is kind of a bitch. All Mr. Peanutbutter wants to do is the right thing and Diane always shits on his parade. UGHHH. Like...she should've realized that her dream could've come to reality with the amount of money Mr. Peanutbutter has.
FUCK. Don't want to see Mr.PB sad...
Peanutbutter. God dammit. Diane is kind of a bitch. All Mr. Peanutbutter wants to do is the right thing and Diane always shits on his parade. UGHHH. Like...she should've realized that her dream could've come to reality with the amount of money Mr. Peanutbutter has.
FUCK. Don't want to see Mr.PB sad...
^ yeah. Pretty much...and I don't like it :/
SDCowboy
Member
Naw it's still BS. PB treats her like a queen, and she usuakkt reacts by being mopey/negative and shitty.
Regardless, that's also real life. People react to different things differently. Right or wrong. Sometimes oddly. And that is part of what makes the show feel so amazingly real.
SDCowboy
Member
I agree completely. Their relationship seems to be one based on commiserating. Not attraction. I see Bojack and Carolyn together much more.
SporeCrawler
Member
great season. i really am impressed how well they did the hollyhock arc.
and finally a season ended on a positive note
I could see them toying with the idea and giving it screentime, then having it fall apart because it's another thing that Diane thinks will make her happy and doesn't, and Bojack eventually realizes she's one of the toxic individuals in his life that he needs to cut her out, in spite of how much he cares for her.
But that's really predictable and this is Bojack so...
MindCollizion
Member
Season 3 ended in a positive note.
SDCowboy
Member
I can totally see that.
But on the flipside, why I see him with Carolyn, is they actually act like a functioning couple when they're together. She always knows where his stuff is, has the answers for him, etc. and it also seems to be the time when both of them are actually happy - when they are bickering and interacting like an old married couple.
Abilidebob
Member
Absolutely loved the season.
Bojack's mom situation hits way too hard for me. Dementia is one of the saddest things I can imagine happening. And while she had a pretty bad life growing up, it still doesn't excuse the things she did. But again, at the same time I don't really now what I should feel about her. Would she have given amphetamines to the girl if she wasn't suffering from dementia? I can easily see that happening.
Also I may have missed something, but did they explain how the girl had the same diamond? Wasn't that from Bojack's mom side?
Also I may have missed something, but did they explain how the girl had the same diamond? Wasn't that from Bojack's mom side?
Dusk Golem
A 21st Century Rockefeller
I don't think that was to excuse her behavoir, but to make it understandable. Also show how similar she and Bojack really are, both had lives that were screwed up in a big way from their parents, and Beatrice ended up becoming more similar to her father than she'd ever have liked to. But just as Bojack had a rough time growing up and that doesn't excuse his behavoir, the same is true of Beatrice. Both were dealt extremely shitty hands in life perpetrated by the parents meant to raise them, and that doesn't excuse what they do in their adult life. It just helps to understand where they're coming from and why things may have ended this way. It also deals somewhat with the real tragedy for many that people can have unfit parents, and many shitty people have an almost passed down line of shittiness that's happens in their family history passed down onto them for it to be the only way they ever knew growing up. That's not an excuse, but it is a reason, a more common reason than many would like to face, that helps explain and understand better rather than to excuse the shitty things that they do.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Just finished it. Here we go.
I think this might be my favorite season so far, or at least it's the most consistent for me and takes the show forward unlike Season 3 where everything stood in place. Episodes 2, 6 and 11 are real standouts for me and are immediately in my top 10 episodes list somewhere (I actually think 2 is my favorite next to Escape from LA). It's really satisfying to see Bojack actually improve for once and that ending got to me. That's not to say it was devoid of emotional gut punches, in fact I think this season has some of the most yet
like the first three minutes of episode 2 with that perfect song choice. And holy shit there was no reason to give fucking Beatrice a backstory and it turns out to be the best part of the show. Also they should keep Hollyhock, best new character on the show. Also Mr. Peanutbutter's early arc is so on the nose I can see where some of the complaints of the season come from. My only complaint is that Todd just isn't interesting.
Overall in terms of rankings it's 2 = 4 > 3 > 1, Good work writers and animators give me season 5.
I think this might be my favorite season so far, or at least it's the most consistent for me and takes the show forward unlike Season 3 where everything stood in place. Episodes 2, 6 and 11 are real standouts for me and are immediately in my top 10 episodes list somewhere (I actually think 2 is my favorite next to Escape from LA). It's really satisfying to see Bojack actually improve for once and that ending got to me. That's not to say it was devoid of emotional gut punches, in fact I think this season has some of the most yet
,except for the end of episode 9 you all are fools for buying into it given how out of place it was,
Overall in terms of rankings it's 2 = 4 > 3 > 1, Good work writers and animators give me season 5.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
BrokenIcarus
Member
So I was a little high when watching much of the season, but I seem to remember there being some sort of build-up to a reference to something from season 1, that then didn't end up actually being executed, if that makes sense. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
brickarts295
Member
Damn this season was near-perfect. Has already surpassed both Futurama and classic Simpsons as my favorite animated sitcom.
Ep.7 was hilarious. Love elevator episodes.
Ep.9 was ruthless T_T
Ep.11 went for the jugular ;_;
Thank god for Ep.12's ending.
Diane and Mr. Peanutbutter in a nutshell:
Ep.7 was hilarious. Love elevator episodes.
Ep.9 was ruthless T_T
Ep.11 went for the jugular ;_;
Thank god for Ep.12's ending.
Diane and Mr. Peanutbutter in a nutshell:
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Bojack indirectly kills his friend, runs away, attempts suicide, and sees horses running. Total positive note.
So I was a little high when watching much of the season, but I seem to remember there being some sort of build-up to a reference to something from season 1, that then didn't end up actually being executed, if that makes sense. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
He says Horsin' Around isn't Ibsen like he did in the cold open of the first episode, but that was the only thing I can think of.
They weren't ever bloodshot in the beginning.
Belgian Dude
Member
Just finished, and I really liked it. One thing the season did was really cement the story importance of last season's episode 11--it's not just something played for impact at the time, I think it's a key component in putting Bojack where he needs to be for this season to go the way it did. S4 spoilers:
It's super obvious, but the way the two situations worked together fits really well.
Episode 9 is probably the standout of the season for me--I spent most of the episode thinking I knew where it was going, and assuming this was setup for
I was obviously totally wrong, and the gut-punch when
was even more effective for it.
The other storylines were solid enough. There's definitely enough in the Beatrice stuff to be worth rewatching for to see how iit all fits together, Todd's stuff was I think appropriate for who Todd is. The Diane/PB stuff is interesting, and the bit in the final episode that I imagine is going to fuel tons of Diane hate kind of resonated with me.
Sara Lynn was always a surrogate daughter, and Bojack really did care about her, but could never really step out of his self-centeredness long enough to be there for her over himself. Hollyhock appearing when she does is his shot at redemption, and given how deeply the loss of his last daughter figure affected him Bojack is actually capable of making better choices. He's still intensely self-centered, but losing Sara Lynn made him push himself harder to be better.
Episode 9 is probably the standout of the season for me--I spent most of the episode thinking I knew where it was going, and assuming this was setup for
PC losing Filbert and the eventual reveal that Hollyhock was a kid she'd had with Bojack at some point in the past and just never told him about.
PC drops the line about imagining her great-granddaughter telling the story and you realize that the happy ending you've been promised was emphatically not going to happen
The other storylines were solid enough. There's definitely enough in the Beatrice stuff to be worth rewatching for to see how iit all fits together, Todd's stuff was I think appropriate for who Todd is. The Diane/PB stuff is interesting, and the bit in the final episode that I imagine is going to fuel tons of Diane hate kind of resonated with me.
Diane's problems are fundamentally #firstworldproblems. Her life is great. She is loved. She has obtained some level of success in her chosen profession, going so far as to influence an election in the right direction by using her writing skill to manipulate the public. But she's unhappy because for all that life is fine, it's not particularly fulfilling. The Belle-room story she shares with Mr. Peanutbutter isn't her asking for a thing, so much as trying to let him in on this fantasy of hers. This in-theory perfect thing she can look on the illusion of fondly, but it's not a thing she actually wants. Reality would ruin the childish dreams of the perfect Belle-room that morphs constantly to fit whatever she wants at the time, always has the exact books she needs, etc. Mr. PB trying to give her the room of her dreams is a good thing that comes from a place of love, and I think her breakdown at the end is knowing that, but also knowing he won't understand what the imagined library was for her, or how having an actual, by necessity imperfect, real-world occurrence of her perfect dream room will sort of taint the dream. It's no longer her ideal hideaway where she can imagine going and being perfectly happy, it's a thing that really exists and Diane inside that room is the exact same depressed and directionless Diane that exists outside the room. Having Mr. PB try to do a good thing for her with a big, grand gesture that ultimately serves to just murder her long-running dream is exactly the right kind of thing to force the breakdown the season ends with.
Ha, funny the things your mind can convince you were true. Thanks.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
Holy shit, episode 11.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
At the end of Season 3, Todd says Bojack has to be better
I'm very happy that in Season 4 Bojack is better
I'm very happy that in Season 4 Bojack is better
Bobo Dakes
Member
I really loved Todd this season.
Frankly I've been kind of put off by Diane x Peanutbutter from the start, they never seemed to have any genuine chemistry to me. PB treats her great, but ultimately he treats everyone great, which makes his feelings for Diane almost indistinguishable from his feelings for practically anyone else. Diane is kind of the reverse in that she demonstrates almost zero affection for him most of the time, same as she does for everyone else.
Part of it may stem from my inability to see Diane as anything but a pastiche of an adult Darla, who I can't imagine ever going for someone like PB.
Part of it may stem from my inability to see Diane as anything but a pastiche of an adult Darla, who I can't imagine ever going for someone like PB.
jack_package_200
Banned
Those bits where we hear Bojack's internal narration hit way too close to home.
"You stupid piece of shit. You selfish asshole. Just talk to her"
"You stupid piece of shit. You selfish asshole. Just talk to her"
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
:lol End of the season was so good. Wait for the next season is going to be so long.
Is there another show that handles topics so well? Like it handles a lot of hard topics that usually aren't touched but it seems to nail them so well.
Is there another show that handles topics so well? Like it handles a lot of hard topics that usually aren't touched but it seems to nail them so well.
You're the Worst comes to mind.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Poll
- Locked