Calling that. The numbers for Ps4 are a huge bullshit, and will roll as a snowball.
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Brazilian Xbox One will be assembled in Brazil
- Thread starter Brazil
- Start date
Calling that. The numbers for Ps4 are a huge bullshit, and will roll as a snowball.
So what are your sources for that statement? We don't know what the XBO would cost if it was fully imported since they are not doing that.
ethomaz
Banned
PS3 (when imported), Xbox 360 (when imported), Vita, etc says hi.
Brazilians import products every time... R$4,000 is a joke.
There are still import taxes, but overall they will be lower (which we can know because of the lower price).
As a comparison, since Microsoft will be importing components instead of an Xbox One, two taxes already change:
- video game system: 20% Import Tax and 50% Industrialized Product Tax;
- just an HD: 16% Import Tax and 15% Industrialized Product Tax.
Not to mention benefits on other taxes for the product being assembled in a plant in Brazil. Those vary in a case by case, and could be simply from a small reduction on the tax to complete exemption.
I imported my Wii when it was still costing US$250 and paid something around R$800~900. The price on high street retail was around R$1500~2000 IIRC. Brazilian Real was being traded at basically the same price as it is now. But, poor Sony and its special PS4 being taxed more than everyone else. Ever.
Vita prices, Ps3 prices before locally manufactured, Xbox 360 prices before locally manufactured, and so on.
You are using leaps of logic there just because it applied to the past does not mean it will apply now. You have no idea what the cost of the XBO would be if it was fully imported. No one does so stop trying to say you do. The PS4 is overpriced but I am pretty sure it is not purely greed involved like you are claiming.
Like I said to him the past does not always apply to the present.
Sephiroth_VII
Member
I gotta say, I think this is a great move for Brazilians in the long run. Sure, the console is way more expensive, but it will get cheaper once Sony starts manufacturing PS4's in Brazil, and that will then create a lot of jobs and improve the economy.
It sucks short-term, sure, but it might be short-sighted to ridicule the Brazilian government over this.
It sucks short-term, sure, but it might be short-sighted to ridicule the Brazilian government over this.
shira
Member
Brazilians needed a 3rd job to afford a PS4
ethomaz
Banned
My plans was up to $2000 on cash or up to R$2500 in 10x or 12x.
Now I will travel to Paraguay
ethomaz
Banned
Brazilian's law changed? Because what I know the tax reform didn't happened here yet (and I'm not sure it will eve happen).
So it is the same than before.
R$4000 is still a joke.
PS. They changed something... for better... COFINS and PIS calc is not done over ICMS anymore.
Edit - I meant PIS and wrote IPI lol
Thanks for the info, Brazil. If true, this gives a whole new perspective on the matter. Well, for me, at least. When I first saw PS4's price tag, I couldn't believe that tax alone could explain such abusive price. And X1's price was the main reason for my scepticism; the discrepancy was (is) too big. But this news is a reasonable explanation to it.
In the end, Brazil has the most expensive consoles in the world. And abusive taxes are the main reason for that. I just wish brazilians could see it. But instead of addressing the tax problem, people is still trying to blame Sony. This attitude is probably the reason why we can't solve the tax issue, in the first place.
Well, I guess that I'll just have to keep importing my consoles and games, in a selfish and individualist manner, while my countrymen fight each other over things that, in the end, don't really matter.
The way those taxes compound make a large reduction in the final price after a reduction in the landing cost very plausible. By my rough calculations using Sony's pricing model, a Brazilian-assembled PS4 with a transfer price of USD 325 would net out to somewhere in the neighborhood of USD 1100, or R$2420.
silver.tongue
Member
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...
Now things make more sense... kinda...
EDIT: Still importing my PS4 though.
Now things make more sense... kinda...
EDIT: Still importing my PS4 though.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Yup unfortunately
Tiu Neo
Member
Ok, you guys won. Crow eaten. Great move, Microsoft.
The PS4 value still seems a bit too absurd, to me (comparing with the Vita, for example), but... well, my Brazilian PS4 can wait until Sony starts making them here.
It's great to see that at least one of the big three companies give a fuck about our country I was going PS4/Wii U this generation, but now I'm thinking about getting an Xbox One. Microsoft support for Brasil was probably the best this past generation, but 2010-nowdays the games didn't interest me too much.
The PS4 value still seems a bit too absurd, to me (comparing with the Vita, for example), but... well, my Brazilian PS4 can wait until Sony starts making them here.
It's great to see that at least one of the big three companies give a fuck about our country
I was going PS4/Wii U this generation, but now I'm thinking about getting an Xbox One. Microsoft support for Brasil was probably the best this past generation, but 2010-nowdays the games didn't interest me too much.
ethomaz
Banned
Brazilian market is large... not like US, UK, Japan, Germany, etc... but comparing countries alone I think Brazil is the 6th or 7th biggest game market in the world... close to 200 million population so it is not a surprise.
With MS assemble here they can send Xbone units for all the Mercosul without need to pay big taxes... they are a free deal between these countries... so Argentina can receive the Xbone cheaper from Brazil and MS save money too.
Cars company do the same... like Ford Focus that is assembled in Agentina and sold in all the Mercosul.
So it is a good thing for both consumers and MS.
seattle6418
Member
It could be a great sign, but if i was Microsoft, i would try to cut a deal with the congress and only build a factory (if that was the case, they already have one) if they pass the law changing the way Videogames are taxed.
It might be built here, but it still pays taxes like a gambling machine.
If it was priced like a computer, it would cost 1.200-1.300 much more in line with our buying power.
Brazil, if you have a chance to speak with Stanley or Gracias, please ask with are they doing such a bad job lobbying for this. Characterizing videogames as gambling machines was done in the 80´s, back when nobody knew what videogames were. It was archaic and done out of not knowing what they were dealing.
The new law is there, ready to be voted but nobody does anything to speed up the process. It´s not a proposal that really matters for any congressman, there´s nobody lobbying against it, so it´s just a lack of attention on something that´s being left out.
It might be built here, but it still pays taxes like a gambling machine.
If it was priced like a computer, it would cost 1.200-1.300 much more in line with our buying power.
Brazil, if you have a chance to speak with Stanley or Gracias, please ask with are they doing such a bad job lobbying for this. Characterizing videogames as gambling machines was done in the 80´s, back when nobody knew what videogames were. It was archaic and done out of not knowing what they were dealing.
The new law is there, ready to be voted but nobody does anything to speed up the process. It´s not a proposal that really matters for any congressman, there´s nobody lobbying against it, so it´s just a lack of attention on something that´s being left out.
Chiaroscuro
Member
I told you guys long ago that Xbox One will be manufacture on Manaus...
Actually I mean that if the XB1 costs $400 in US, it would not surpass R$2.999, that was the price they got for the X360 fully imported. And it was their first attempt to launch the console here.
If they managed to get a 40% reduction from the fully imported, the XB1 imported should cost ~R$3.660. It still less than the R$3.999 that Sony got, and the XB1 is $100 more expensive.
Jack Tretton promised a competitive price. He said the target was to get the $399 dolars price here (it would be less than R$1.000).
Supaidaman
Member
Very good news from Microsoft and it really explains Sony's position. But, at the end, R$4000 will be an outrageous price, being justified or not.
I hope to see the PS4 being assembled here as quickly as possible and maybe both console's prices will go down. MAYBE. Not getting my hopes up.
PS: João das Tetras(Jack Tretton) is still a liar
I hope to see the PS4 being assembled here as quickly as possible and maybe both console's prices will go down. MAYBE. Not getting my hopes up.
PS: João das Tetras(Jack Tretton) is still a liar
Quadraphonic
Member
Well, now it's confirmed with a source.
So it all makes sense.
Before we had proof of this, the only way Sony had the price difference was being greedy or evil or some shit... /s
So it all makes sense.
Before we had proof of this, the only way Sony had the price difference was being greedy or evil or some shit... /s
phosphor112
Banned
Bump. This a huge difference.
And also, I want to laugh at all the people saying Sony was lying.
Way to double down. -__-
And also, I want to laugh at all the people saying Sony was lying.
Way to double down. -__-
Sony has no reason to start manufacturing in Brazil just because they have shitty laws on imports.
Tiu Neo
Member
Well, they do now, if they want to be competitive with Microsoft on Brazil and some other Mercosul countries.
Systems manufactured in Brazil aren't used solely for the Brazilian market. For example, many cars sold in countries like Mexico and Argentina are manufactured in Brazil and are actually sold by much less than they sell in Brazil, since a whole bunch of Brazilian taxes are applied while a product moves between the factory and the consumers and can be avoided if you're exporting your goods.
I think that Sony is interested in manufacturing/assembling the PS4 here. Brazil has a very big videogame's market; that's reason enough.
But I agree with you. Even if Sony manages to assemble the PS4 here, tax would still destroy the price. Just look at the brazilian X1. It's assembled here and, even so, it's the most expensive X1 in the world.
Punkster_NY
Member
dp
phosphor112
Banned
THAT IS A JOKE/HUMOR WEBSITE Please take it down.
phosphor112
Banned
I think they were planning on it. Maybe they didn't realize that X1 was going to, so they weren't in a huge hurry since they just started producing PS3's not too long ago.
seattle6418
Member
Most gaming companies are waiting for changes in our legislation before "really" entering the market.
It´s a shame, i went to research where was the law 300/2007 and i just found out the congress archived the proposal in 2012, so there´s nothing at the table right now for us.
Long live Paraguay and Miami i guess!
It´s a shame, i went to research where was the law 300/2007 and i just found out the congress archived the proposal in 2012, so there´s nothing at the table right now for us.
Long live Paraguay and Miami i guess!
phosphor112
Banned
They started manufacturing PS3's. That's why the price dropped several hundred R$
Zekra Dezivad
Member
I thought that Sony was greedy and they hate bazilian people.
When a gaffer said that xbox was assembled in brazil someone told him "Nope! Stop spread disinformation".
Crows, crows everywhere. It's dinner time for you, guys.
But whether Sony's excuses makes sense or not, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that we pay absurd taxes for videogames. Forget PS4's price for a minute and think on X1's situation. Do you really think that R$2200 is a fair price for a console that is being assembled here? It's the most expensive X1 in the world! Am I the only one who thinks that this is crazy?
I can't fathom why people focus on Sony's "excuses" rather than the government's abusive taxes.
phosphor112
Banned
There is still the tax for it being a "gambling" machine.
http://www.omg-facts.com/Business/Brazil-Has-A-120-Percent-Tax-On-Video-Ga/55370
Haha, exactly! The tax situation is so absurd over here, that I don't know if I should laugh or cry.
Jack Tretton never said their goal was to sell the PS4 for cheaper than the PS3. Their goal was to have the same conversion rate for the PS4 as they have for the PS3, so about two times the US price. Of course, they failed either way...
Nope. There is an interview with a tax specialist in a Brazilian website stating that the profit margin on the PS4 is ~4 times larger than the US and Europe. What foreigners need to understand is that huge profit margins are a common thing in Brazil, it's not something that only Sony does. Brazilians are complaining that Sony is following the trend instead of being pro-consumer and lowering their profit margin.
Isn't that only for games, not consoles?
Metalmurphy
Member
What? They did lower it, to fight the massive taxes which are the real problem.