SwiftDeath
Member
Yep Sony wanted that sweet sweet profit margin of selling 10 PS4's in the whole of Brazil instead of pricing it to sell more /s
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Brazilian Xbox One will be assembled in Brazil
- Thread starter Brazil
- Start date
Yep Sony wanted that sweet sweet profit margin of selling 10 PS4's in the whole of Brazil instead of pricing it to sell more /s
The profit margin makes up 22% of the price (R$857 or about $400). It's the combined Sony + retailer profit margin, but it still is really high. Taxes are the biggest part of the problem, yes, but when the profits alone are enough to buy a PS4 in the US it is clear that they are to blame too. The tax specialist also mentioned that Sony TV's are sold with a smaller profit margin in Brazil...
I don't remeber anyone saying that the whole price was due to a high profit margin. It's a combination of high profit margin (common in Brazil, almost every multinational company does it) and taxes.
Shpeshal_Ed
Banned
Well, that's one territory where Microsoft MIGHT outsell Sony.
I'm not exactly focusing on Sony's side of things, but if we start talking about how stupid is the amount of taxes we pay over everything (and nothing works, yey), we'll get off topic and angry. Every time I have to discuss the way the gorvernment taxes things I feel like going in a killing spree in Brasilia.
See, I got angry çfhkty-67oç~85l69~çk7.fghn
simplythebest
Banned
Sony: We Will Not Rest Until the PS4 Is Affordable for Every Gamer in Brazil
Sony's fighting nothing.
If they had chosen to lose the same $117 (R$ 258) they are "losing" as a "discount" when they sold the console to the Brazilian distributor, the final price would already drop tremendously to R$ 2980 (without any discount).
They didn't even try.
Ascended Saiyan
Banned
People still complaining about Sony ?
Nothing new to see here
Nothing new to see here
You think they should eat an extra hundred on every unit because Brazil has stupid taxes?
phosphor112
Banned
You expect them to lose hundreds of dollars per console to subsidize Brazil's fucked up policies?
Lol.
Dude they are required to put a profit margin on the console for the tax calculation it says so on their slides.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
I honestly couldn't believe people thought that Sony were falsifying documents, just to cover their high price. People are so thick sometimes. It was called (speculated) immediately that MS was able to produce in Brazil and used it to their advantage to get the competitive price. Good on them. Sony needs to convert some of those PS3 productions to PS4 in Brazil if they want to have a snowball's chance at staying competitive there for next gen.
4k still doesn't make sense, sorry. As pointed out a thousand times, Vita and PS3 tell a whole different story. Sony just wants to sell the PS3, just like how the PS2 receive a big push here while the rest of the world was on Xbox360 or PS3... They practically just opened a factory for the PS3.
They are required to put a profit margin for the local distributor (Sony BR). They are not required however to import the product at it's retail price, which also includes another profit margin from Sony, this time in the US, which again increases the taxes on top of it.
I don't recall anyone saying the sheets they released where falsified, several specialist in the press stated that those calculations were correct but strange in the way they were done, including a higher profit margin than usual.
They are required to put a profit margin for the local distributor (Sony BR). They are not required however to import the product at it's retail price, which also includes another profit margin from Sony, this time in the US, which again increases the taxes on top of it.
I don't recall anyone saying the sheets they released where falsified, several specialist in the press stated that those calculations were correct but strange in the way they were done, including a higher profit margin than usual.
BRocknRolla
Member
Even after this some people still don't believe Sony? It must be frightening to live so truly living beyond rational thinking. But seriously, keep going with those gut feels folks.
You talk about beliefs and then rational thinking, thats funny...
I have no doubt Sony is being truthful with whatever it released, but I definitely know it is omitting information
Never seen a tech product be imported at such high price because taxes.People will buy the PS4, imported or not, if they don't they might just buy PS3s. In 6 months or a year Sony will bring manufacturing to here and all of this will be forgotten, nothing lost.
No, when people refer to Sony's problems they're most commonly referring to Sony Brasil, which is a decades old company that people have a lot of reasons to feel strongly about, with a long history of incompetence and pricing their products way above the rest of the market.
Just to give a recent example: people found out, after they started receiving their pre-order copies of Beyond Two Souls, that Sony incorrectly pressed the wrong master images, so the game didn't have any localization at all. It may sound unbelievable, but it's true. They fully localized the game, showed dubbed trailers, released a demo even... and then printed discs with US and French localisations only. And nobody ever said anything about it until people actually got their hands on the game.
What people still don't believe is that Sony is releasing the PS4 for R$3999, nearly double the price of the competition. They have a pretty good list of excuses, but ultimately it is still on them for not assembling the system or doing whatever needed to be done, something their competitor had no problems with.
All I gotta say is LOL.
Wheres all those accusatory maaaaaad brazilians at.
"OMG SONY YOU GREEDY FUCKS"
Anyway ... I assume it's only a matter of time (who knows how long that time will be) until Sony makes some sort of deal to manufacture there as well.
edit : Wow. People still complaining and throwing accusations at Sony still. My original comment stands .... from all the games I've met brazilians in (WoW, DotA 2, LoL) ... don't try to reason with them with facts.
Wheres all those accusatory maaaaaad brazilians at.
"OMG SONY YOU GREEDY FUCKS"
Anyway ... I assume it's only a matter of time (who knows how long that time will be) until Sony makes some sort of deal to manufacture there as well.
edit : Wow. People still complaining and throwing accusations at Sony still. My original comment stands .... from all the games I've met brazilians in (WoW, DotA 2, LoL) ... don't try to reason with them with facts.
They claim the distributor margin is set by law. As far as I can see, the only way to lower the initial price, which is used as the basis for the taxes, is to lower the transfer price. Reducing the transfer price is money out of pocket on a machine they are already selling at a loss. What am I missing?
Sony claims they lose money on the US retail price.
Imperfected
Member
No, I'm in complete agreement. The unfortunate side-effect of this is to further discourage the Brazilian government from fixing these archaic SEGA Genesis-era tariffs. The take away lesson for them is, "If we deny our citizens reasonably priced imports, companies funnel money into our economy with in-country manufacturing/assembly." The reason for the government to actually fix this ridiculous situation has effectively been removed.
A short-term "win" for the consumer in Brazil that's almost certainly going to result in more long-term losing. Not a great situation at all.
KoopaTheCasual
Junior Member
There were a couple posters, in the far minority, who claimed the numbers were flat out wrong, and implying that Sony was pulling a fast one. It just shocked me to see a couple of posts like tthat.
They could reduce the transfer price and keep the local profit margin (hell, they could even increase it), since it's applied at the end of sale the resulting price would be much lower. Is it not the same company manufacturing and importing? Why couldn't Sony US or Japan take a hit and leave whatever profits they could take in the Brazilian subsidiary since it would immediately make a huge difference in the final price? Perhaps because the Playstation division in Brazil is historically irrelevant? I really don't know.
I don't fully understand it, but this PDF explains the Brazilian transfer pricing criteria. It doesn't seem like Sony can pull a number out of thin air. It seems like they need to justify the transfer price to the Brazilian tax collectors.
The price needs to be similar to the price in the country they are importing from, as I understand. A 5% divergence is accepted, so they could have listed the PS4 transfer price as $379 bud didn't. You see, the prices could be lower. That's what the tax specialists told the Brazilian press, there are things that could be done to lower the price. For example, the taxes listed are the correct ones, but some of those taxes were applied with a higher percentage then what they should have been.
ethomaz
Banned
With the assemble of Xbone here in Brazil it will increase the price by R$100... so the new price will be R$2300.
That's what I get here.
http://jogos.uol.com.br/ultimas-not...e-nacional-custara-r-2300-apos-lancamento.htm
Seems like only the few preorders are R$2200... any buy after November 22 will cost R$2300.
Controller: R$260
Charger Kit: R$150
Controller + Charger Kit: R$390
That's what I get here.
http://jogos.uol.com.br/ultimas-not...e-nacional-custara-r-2300-apos-lancamento.htm
Seems like only the few preorders are R$2200... any buy after November 22 will cost R$2300.
Controller: R$260
Charger Kit: R$150
Controller + Charger Kit: R$390
As the PS4 costs R$4000, Microsoft can increase their profits with no need to worry about losing sales to the competition.
Weren't people asserting that this would be the case in all the other threads, while a specific individual(s) routinely shouted them down as being wrong and to stop spreading rumonrs?
Logic isn't a forigen concept really and it followed logic to assert that this would be the case. It is strange really.
My point was since Sony said they were losing R$ 258 on each unit sold here in Brazil, if they had opted to lose R$ 258 right from the start, the final price would be way cheaper and they would be losing the same amount (obviously it's not that simple, since there are one billion different Sony companies and not the same would be losing).
However, it all depends on which price they can use as transfer price (that 5% margin from what I understood is between what Sony declared as the price and what they actually practiced as the price when transactions were done).
The increase is due to foreign exchange ($1 was ~R$ 2 in May/June when they announced the price, but now it is ~R$ 2.2).
HAEUHAUEHUAHEUAHEUHAUEHUAEHUAHEUAHUEHAUEHUAHEUAHEUAH
ethomaz
Banned
That seems weird.
Did you already saw any tech device assembled here had it price increased due dollar?
I think that's more about PS4 price... if the PS4 price was close MS will never increase the price.
Tripolygon
Banned
Yea a huge multi billion dollar corporation who has staffs of accountants and lawyers to help them get out of paying tax or paying as little as possible didn't think of that.
That's why many are finding a price this high strange. Because there are ways to pay less taxes and in that table that Sony published they didn't use any of them.
I don't know off the top of my head, but everything that uses imported goods sees its price increased when the dollar increases. The Xbox One is still an imported product (its parts are).
If there were any competition, Microsoft might have felt forced to eat the loss because of the higher dollar. But there isn't any, so, yeah, they can raise the price without worries.