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Brazilians are losing faith in democracy and considering a return to military rule

Platy

Member
I for one welcome our Mad Max future =P

Also, our president blamed GISELE BUNDTCHEN on why his popularity is so low.
I am not joking

Also, brazilians or people who want more in depth look on this stuff, we have a BrazilGAF thread on community were I promisse I will avoid talking about politics and just suffer everything mentioned above in silence, waiting to be tortured by the dictatorships =P
 
Seems to be a terrible state of affairs. But a rejection of liberalism for authoritarianism is only going to deepen social injustice and lead to a lot more pain than comfort.


Is the rise of the right, more of a wealthy movement over the poverty populace, or equidistant in all income brackets?
Edit: Seems equally involved. That's disassuring.
 
You really shouldn't quote the entire article. Quote small parts and highlight some key points. Threads have been closed for doing what you did there.

On topic though, corruption is bad in a lot of places but in Brazil it certainly seems like in a whole another level.
edit: not that it's that good now, but much better after the mod edit

It's in this environment that someone like Jair Bolsonaro, a former military officer and candidate to the presidency, thrives. His misogynistic, racist, homophobic, xenophobic remarks have earned him comparisons to Donald Trump. Bolsonaro is an avid advocate to a return of generals to the highest public office. After more than two decades advocating for a return to military rule, his rhetoric is finally catching up to public opinion. The ”law and order" rhetoric he uses is appealing to Brazilians who see the ex-military, anti-establishment candidate as the perfect antidote to the current sick system. And while his popularity levels are low and his candidacy uncertain, he has found a segment of the Brazilian population that seems pleased with his approach to ”fixing" Brazil.

Most concerning, however, is not Bolsonaro being elected, but rather the combination of factors that could lead to a return to dictatorship.
And this seems pretty scary.
 

SpaceWolf

Banned
No point linking the article if you're just going to quote the whole thing, OP. If you like their stuff, you're only denying them clicks.
 

Jotaka

Member
BOLSONARO 2018



This fucking idiots weren't alive in a dictatorship. I have friends's parent being killed and family members leaving the country because of that shit.
They were as much corrupted as the politicians today, the only difference the wasn't the possibility to protest because they could make you disappear if you did.
 
What about a constitutional monarchy? Isn't Pedro II well loved in Brazil? There are two branches to choose from for a successor. Never seen a military junta do good work.
 

Valhelm

contribute something
This is sobering and puts our problems in America in perspective. Please stay strong y'all and don't give up.

Brazilians shrugged off a right wing dictatorship in the past. I'm sure you guys can do it again.
 
Last edited by EviLore; Today at 03:41 PM. Reason: Not only pasted an entire long format feature, but also didn't bother to attribute it with quote tags. Impressive.

Glad stuff like that is being addressed. There have been far too many Copy and Paste / RSS Feed type threads on here lately.
 

Arkhanor

Member
I'm really afraid of this surge of idiocy in Brazil. I wish I could leave the country with my family but I can't afford that right now.
 

Platy

Member
Im certain you already voted for someone much worst, thinking youre doing sooooo good

I would vote again if the choice is "just corruption" vs "corruption with economic growth"

it becomes a no brainer if it is "corruption AND i am tortured and/or killed" vs "corruption with economic growth" or even "MAYBE economic growth with no torture and killed" like all the polls are making it to be
 

Jackpot

Banned
It's hard to blame them with a corruption scandal touching pretty much every politician, and the President brought in to replace the previous President for corruption gets caught on tape talking about bribes, and the supreme court rules against impeachment because stability was prioritised over tackling corruption, then where are you left to turn?

Of course a military junta would be just as corrupt.
 
The rush to be the "first" to post.

"Post first, think/edit later."


On-topic:

I would vote again if the choice is "just corruption" vs "corruption with economic growth"

it becomes a no brainer if it is "corruption AND i am tortured and/or killed" vs "corruption with economic growth" or even "MAYBE economic growth with no torture and killed" like all the polls are making it to be

So I'm guessing you're for the anti-torture and anti-killing platform.
 

Bad_Boy

time to take my meds
I have a couple friends that were able to leave to america for work. They always talk about how bad brazil is becoming and if they don't know if they want to stay, or go back to their families. But I think I'm starting to understand what they mean now. That's an eye opening read OP.
 
Brazil, and by association, all of South America should be the most powerful continent of the planet. They have everything and it is constantly squandered for individual gain.
 

Iksenpets

Banned
That is really bad, but Christ the Brazilian politics of the past few years have to be the most fucked up domestic politics I've ever seen in a major country. It makes America's Trump debacle look minor. Calling for a coup is obviously terrible, but I have no idea where people are supposed to turn when the government removes the elected leader on trumped up charges and replaces her with a guy already under investigation with single-digit approval ratings, and then uses their complete control of government to pass ridiculous things like constitutional bans on government spending increases for the next twenty years. It's insane.
 

sflufan

Banned
What's up with all these countries wanting to surrender themselves to potential dictatorships.

It's a worrying trend

Because the economy under democracy has "failed". As the article states, it's not "values" that underpins a democracy, it's the economy. Once that goes, then democracy doesn't have a leg to stand on.
 

SephLuis

Member
When compared with respondents in other Latin American countries, Brazilians were the second least likely to support democracy. Ironically, now that Brazilian democracy is starting to really work, uncovering corruption that has plagued the country for decades, citizens are sick of it.

To be fair, it's still unknown how those anti-corruption operations will really affect the country.

Mostly because, even when some people are convicted, they soon return to the same type of white collar crime or their penalty aren't adequate with the types of crimes they did. A few months or years in jail and the guilty is out even after stealing millions or worse.

Even worse, a lot of people being investigated are pushing for laws that make them immune to punishment or to make it even more lenient than already is. It also doesn't help that when cutting costs, they are taking from the overall population instead of really bloated sectors.

And this is a systematic behavior and only a few individuals that go against what I mentioned before. So no surprise that if the system is bad, people will want something different.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Brazil’s economy is baffling. The prices people have to pay for imported goods are astonishing. That kind of protectionism just gums up the encompass and you add corruption to it.... urgh.
 

The Shiiteposter

Neo Member
It's a shame greatest national leader Lula is being attacked by constant injustice and lies from the right. He wouldn't let this happen.
 

Platy

Member
Even worse, a lot of people being investigated are pushing for laws that make them immune to punishment or to make it even more lenient than already is. .

And this is when they don't straight up bribe the judges.

"With the Supreme Court, with Everything"
 
Because the economy under democracy has "failed". As the article states, it's not "values" that underpins a democracy, it's the economy. Once that goes, then democracy doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Does that refer to just Brazil or can I include countries like Turkey and US? I know it's not really an answer that fits but there are similarities.
 

turmoil

Banned
Imagine Uribe in Colombia, Bolsonaro in Brazil and Trump in USA

What horrible thing could possibly happen right?

*shudders*
 
It would have been nice if the article discussed why the economy is failing.

It talked about everything but that. Kinda frustrating given the premise that the economy (and its subsequent instability leading to high levels of unemployment and extreme wealth distribution) is at the center of the reason for unrest.

What was working so well that stopped working a few years ago? What are Brazil's main exports and have they been impacted by world economics in some way? What is the solution here? Because as the article correctly points out, if people feel some economic optimism, most other things can be dealt with. If people can't feed their children, there will be riots in the street, no matter what government type they have.

And it's no surprise to see a rise of conservativism, religion and nationalism. When people get scared or feel powerless, they fall back to an environment they feel they can have some control or power over. Religion always enables that kind of fear response and allows people feel superior or otherwise part of a winning team, even if they're losing in life.

Ed Luce, an English journalist and the Financial Times's chief US commentator and columnist, points out that ”we are taught to think our democracies are held together by values" — that we all believe in the same principles of civil liberties, that we're all equal, and that if we work hard, we'll be okay. But what really keeps liberal democracies together is economic growth. When growth stagnates, diminishes, or is ”monopolized by a fortunate few, things turn nasty."

Is assuredly true in every governmental model in history, ever. If the people are starving, there has never been a dictator, monarch, pharaoh, shah, emperor, president, prime minister, caesar, or supporting government that was safe.

If people don't see a safe economic future in front of them, there will be smoke in the city.
 

Tiops

Member
Brazillian politicians are basically left/center-left, and they fucked up tremendously in the past years. And instead of looking for new personalities that are not related to the absurdly corrupt parties, the left has decided to keep defending Lula and treating him like some sort of victim. Of course not everyone buys this bullshit, and they look for a different option.

Unfortunately they find that option in Bolsonaro, just because he's not involved in corruption schemes. The main parties are all corrupt fuckers, and there's no interesting new parties being formed. So, it's not hard to understand why this is happening. And it sucks.


My priority is not making this dude win because if he wins, i am in the first line for the death squad

This is hyperbole. Yeah, he's a homophobe idiot, but we're not even close to this type of situation, even if he wins.
 

jman2050

Member
Brazil, and by association, all of South America should be the most powerful continent of the planet. They have everything and it is constantly squandered for individual gain.

The more I examine history, the more I find myself more surprised that the US actually succeeded in leveraging their land and resources to become a world superpower than I am the fact that other American states have failed to do the same.
 

SephLuis

Member
Does that refer to just Brazil or can I include countries like Turkey and US? I know it's not really an answer that fits but there are similarities.

I am not familiar with Turkey, but the US situation is a bit different.

While the economy is one of the main reasons for the low faith in democracy, we also have daily news about how the system is being used to save the corrupt.

It's not something surprising or an error, it's systematic behavior. The current system we have here is made to protect some and screw the rest. So the question is: Do you put everything down and start from zero or do you try to salvage the system into something good ?
 
What's up with all these countries wanting to surrender themselves to potential dictatorships.

It's a worrying trend

The world is undergoing rapid change and we lack the leadership to adjust to it. What's happening is too nuanced and complicated for ordinary people to understand so they flock to people that offer simple solutions - i.e. Donald Trump and the military general discussed in this article.

We need better people to assume the mantle of leadership at every level of governance and business in every country.
 

Platy

Member
This is hyperbole. Yeah, he's a homophobe idiot, but we're not even close to this type of situation, even if he wins.

Dude's heroes are torturers. Dude would make it easy as pie to transition to military dictatorship. Those are the ones that send us to that type of situation.
Hell, we are taking steps on this direction with the "gay cure" nonsense
 

trembli0s

Member
It would have been nice if the article discussed why the economy is failing.

It talked about everything but that. Kinda frustrating given the premise that the economy (and its subsequent instability leading to high levels of unemployment and extreme wealth distribution) is at the center of the reason for unrest.

What was working so well that stopped working a few years ago? What are Brazil's main exports and have they been impacted by world economics in some way? What is the solution here? Because as the article correctly points out, if people feel some economic optimism, most other things can be dealt with. If people can't feed their children, there will be riots in the street, no matter what government type they have.

And it's no surprise to see a rise of conservativism, religion and nationalism. When people get scared or feel powerless, they fall back to an environment they feel they can have some control or power over. Religion always enables that kind of fear response and allows people feel superior or otherwise part of a winning team, even if they're losing in life.

My understanding is that Brazil's rampant protectionism, the softening of the global economy for commodities, and simply overspending basee on optimistic projections during the BRICs rise are a large part of the problem.

Another huge issue is the mismanagement and endemic corruption of state owned entities which were paying out millions (billions?) in kickbacks over decades. This kind of behavior over the long term hollows out talent from the entity, ala PDVSA in Venezuela, as the more important thing is who you know rather than how your perform in your job. That cripples a company in the long run.
 
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