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[aj2good4you2]

Just rewatched the episode, dont know if anyone brought this up but Huell definitely puts something in his pocket after frisking Jesse.

 

[UrbanRats]

Yes, it's hard to believe a murdering drug kingpin would poison someone to save himself.



Walt has constantly kept getting more and more evil as the show progresses. He is literally capable of doing anything now.

Walt has never directly killed someone like this, especially a children who's totally innocent.
I'm not putting into question morality, but psychology.

He shot people and killed crazy 8, but always in some kind of self defence process and always against dangerous criminals.
He let Jane die, but did not directly killed her, so i think that there's quite a difference in going out of your way to poison a kid that has nothing to do with anything, i think it's too much even for him.

And the plant shot suggests that he may have not used the ricin to poison the kid (also the timing would fit better), so what if he gave him a non lethal dose? Just enough to spring Jesse into action, but not anough to kill the boy.

Also, do i really have to believe that the Saul's dude pickpocketed Jesse? It's hard to swallow.

 

[midonnay]

Just rewatched the episode, dont know if anyone brought this up but Huell definitely puts something in his pocket after frisking Jesse.

oh wow, sleight of hand was putting it mildly..... jesse was sexually harassed....

 

[brianjones]

baby huey is like matt damon from ocean's 11

 

[SeanR1221]

Just rewatched the episode, dont know if anyone brought this up but Huell definitely puts something in his pocket after frisking Jesse.

Can we get a screen cap or something?

 

[UrbanRats]

Just rewatched the episode, dont know if anyone brought this up but Huell definitely puts something in his pocket after frisking Jesse.

Really? well, than it confirms it.. still can't wrap my head around it, it feels so out of character and there are so many fucking holes, still.

Or maybe they put this detail to fuck with us.

 

[xbhaskarx]

Can we get a screen cap or something?

animated gif please

He knew because the walkie talkie chirped. Listen at the end of the music as he approaches the car.

mp3 please

 

[BenjaminBirdie]

Really? well, than it confirms it.. still can't wrap my head around it, it feels so out of character and there are so many fucking holes, still.

Or maybe they put this detail to fuck with us.

As far as out of characterness goes, for, I'm pretty sure, the first time in the series (if not a really really long time) Walt is wearing a solid color shirt, as opposed to his usual milquetoast plaid shits. Standard issue for Gus.

It'd be a good way to visualize Walt's turn from dude on the ropes to calculated killer.

 

[Farooq]

what do you mean??

jesse stopped off at saul's for like 2 minutes.. are you suggesting they lifted the cigarette pack from his pocket, took the ricin cig, and replaced it in this time

i feel like im discussing lost here .. lol

Well the bodyguard did frisk Jesse and it was a bit excessive, not like a normal frisk.

If I am going to argue that Walt poisoned the kid, I would say why did the bodyguard even frisk Jesse? Let alone something that was pretty invasive.

Jesse is known to the body guard, the body guard was in the car with Jesse when Saul was dropping off the cheque. I wouldn't think Jesse would be perceived as a threat to Saul, considering how urgent Saul made it seem that he needed to see Jesse.

Also the bodyguard would not have to remove the cigarette from the pack, just replace it with another.

I am just arguing for the other side. Again, I myself have not decided where I stand.

 

[aj2good4you2]

best shot i could get

this was after the frisk and he took his hand back out almost immediately, in slow motion it looks pretty suspect but it might be there to throw us off.

 

[RubxQub]

I'm 100% convinced Walt is behind the poisoning in some capacity.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

best shot i could get

I'll have to re-watch it to see it in motion, but that just looks like fatty getting comfortable again to me.

I really doubt Saul had anything to do with it.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

If I am going to argue that Walt poisoned the kid, I would say why did the bodyguard even frisk Jesse? Let alone something that was pretty invasive.

I would have been to remove the cigarette pack with the ricin and replace it with a normal pack.

Although frankly I'm confused as to why it has to be ricin at all during this. Both Gus and Walt can create some other poison if they wanted to. This method was more complex.

 

[xbhaskarx]

They didn't steal the ricin and poison the kid for Walt, Gus, or even Saul.

The A-team has gone rogue.

 

[Farooq]

best shot i could get

[UL]

Just to provide people with some context. That image is right after the frisk.

The hand is in the pocket. Doesn't mean much, but could give some credibility to the fact that the frisk was instrumental in the plan to poison the kid.

 

[RubxQub]

Think about it this way...what's the point of making a scene out of the frisking situation? To build the character of Saul's bodyboard? Random comic relief?

...or eventual plot payoff with a callback to something you remember, but took as nonsense in the finale?

I've got my tinfoil hat on, and Walt is in full on kid murdering mode!

 

[Dash27]

Walt has never directly killed someone like this, especially a children who's totally innocent.
I'm not putting into question morality, but psychology.

He still didnt kill anyone directly. He did what he usually does, get someone else to do it. In this case Saul. You can argue that Gail wasnt innocent, especially with that singing voice, but Walt liked him personally.

 

[Beelzeboss]

It's much easier to think that dude working for Gus switched the lucky cigarette with a fake one earlier that day after the phone call went bad.

Huell didn't have enough time to do the same and Walt wouldn't of been able to steal the poison.

 

[bud]

it does look like he's putting something in his pocket, but if he did grab it, then he couldn't have grabbed just the ricin cigarette--he had to have taken the entire pack. if that's the case, then when did he put the rest of the pack back?

 

[Mr. Saturn]

Bugging the house isn't far fetched, but this supposed master plan concocted months ago and enacted now by Gus to manipulate Jesse into killing Mr. White is slightly bananas to me, yes. For one thing it's a plan that required Walt and Jesse create the ricin cig in the first place, and then have faith that they will continue to hold onto the cig until the opportunity for it to be used against them presented itself, whether that be weeks or months. Put simply: it's a plan that Gus, a control freak, has very little control over.

There are far too many variables to consider, and no matter what happens Gus' business takes a big hit because Jesse losing Broc will devastate him, and blowing Mr. White's brains out on top of that will traumatize him immensely if there's even a shred of doubt as to whether Mr. White did it or not. What Gus is left with is a cook who's so emotionally fucked up that they can't/won't cook, so he'd be in no better position had he offed Walt in the desert.

A far more eloquent plan, as stupid as this admittedly sounds, would have been to lace the hood they placed over Walter's head with ricin and let him breath that shit in for the ride without him realizing it (no scent/taste, IIRC). A few days later Walter would have been lying in a hospital somewhere, dying from what looks like a bad lung cold (perfect!) I'd imagine, and Jesse -- not knowing the full details of Walt's state of health -- wouldn't likely jump to the conclusion that Gus had Walt taken out but rather he succumbed to his illness combined with his recently heightened stress. Jesse would of course be taken aback by Mr. White's death, but he'd get over it and likely get back to work in order to provide for his [perfectly healthy, happy] family.

There are probably a million other ways Gus could get rid of Walt without directly affecting Jesse or jeopardizing his trust in him, which is very important if he intends to smoothly continue his business.

Okay I see what you're saying and I do agree for the most part. I guess Gus' plan, if he was the one responsible for the poisoning, was pretty strange.

You know after reading this thread more, and now I'm starting to think Walt might have been the one responsible for poisoning Brock.

At first I thought, there's no way they would make Walt that dark but then several people including Foliorum Viridum did point out that Walt poisoning a child would only be a step lower for him considering how he let Jane die and got Jesse to kill Gus for him.

 

[brianjones]

Think about it this way...what's the point of making a scene out of the frisking situation? To build the character of Saul's bodyboard? Random comic relief?

i thought he was just a dumb oaf who thought he was doing his job until saul told him to stop

but i guess he's a master pickpocket

honestly the only thing that doesn't sound totally dumb is the kid getting a hold of it somehow himself

 

[blame space]

this is all so depressing in the daylight

 

[Jake.]

i think the kid just stole a cig from jesse when he wasn't looking - kids do it all the time (i know i did with my friends older brother)

 

[Dash27]

They didn't steal the ricin and poison the kid for Walt, Gus, or even Saul.

The A-team has gone rogue.

Well it's either that or zombie Ted.

 

[RubxQub]

Why do people think that the frisking had to involve switching a cigarette at all? All he had to do was yank the entire pack and replace it with another one of the same kind. It's not like in that incredibly awkward frisking scene that it's farfetched to think that the dude was going into the pockets of Jesse. Hell, thats the whole point of a frisk anyways.

In the barrage of awkwardness, he had a pack of cigs in his hand that he dropped in the pocket that had the other cigs in it.

Finale:

- Jesse and Walt work together to kill Gus and Tyrus
- In Gus' dying moments, he reveals that he had nothing to do with the kid's poisoning, and that Walt was the one who did it
- Credits

 

[bud]

but i guess he's a master pickpocket

if he was able to locate and take out that single ricin cigarette out of the pack and then put the rest back in his pocket all within five seconds with the handicap of chubby fingers, then he is the greatest pickpocket that has ever lived.

i think the kid just stole a cig from jesse when he wasn't looking - kids do it all the time (i know i did with my friends older brother)

i'm going with this as well.

 

[Farooq]

It's much easier to think that dude working for Gus switched the lucky cigarette with a fake one earlier that day after the phone call went bad.

Huell didn't have enough time to do the same and Walt wouldn't of been able to steal the poison.

He doesn't need to steal the poison to make the kid sick, Walt could have a number of methods to make the kid sick. I don't know if that was the point of the last part of your post.

He needs Jesse to find out that the Ricin is gone. Replacing the cigarette pack would achieve that goal.

The more I think about it, the more I feel that this plan is highly improbable. But the scene with the gun pointing at the plant is just ingrained in my mind.

 

[UrbanRats]

As far as out of characterness goes, for, I'm pretty sure, the first time in the series (if not a really really long time) Walt is wearing a solid color shirt, as opposed to his usual milquetoast plaid shits. Standard issue for Gus.

It'd be a good way to visualize Walt's turn from dude on the ropes to calculated killer.

yeah but aside from Walt, Saul and Huell too.. i can't picture them poisoning a kid.

I mean the Walt theory still has more logical plot holes in my mind:

Walt did not see Jesse, so he should've asked Saul, who arranged that fake meeting (perfectly acting his part, BTW) and told Huell to go all Penn & Teller on Jesse.
Already it feels out of character to me, but whatever.
Huell allegedly stole not the cigs package, but just that single ricin cigarette (cause Jesse still has the package) and that's fucking A+ magic right there.
Or he may have exchanged the venomous package for a brand new one, but he doesn't have nothing in his hand right? And it still is some fuackin' A trickery on his part.
THEN either Walt or Huell (lol) had to find a way to actually poison the kid, which wasn't as easy.
Huell is already out of the picture, since we've seen how clumsy he is (Ted) and could not possibly go on and sneak that vial into the kid's food/drink.
So alright, maybe Walt did it, but he's not a perfect hitman either and the girl, Andrea, already saw him discussing with Jesse the night before, so it wasn't easy for him to pass unnoticed.

On the other hand, the Gus theory has no real flaws, Tyrus took the single cigarette from the locker, and proceeded to poison the kid straight ahead (he IS a hitman, and surely has such skills).
There's the problem of how could Gus knew about the ricin, but it's a far more little plothole, to me.

Ofcourse the other possibility is, neither of them did it, and the kid smoke it on his own (and Jesse is just confused, being a stressful period and all).

And lastly: Walt DID NOT use the ricin, but instead the plant mentioned above, though this doesn't explain where the fuck the ricin cig has gone.

Think about it this way...what's the point of making a scene out of the frisking situation? To build the character of Saul's bodyboard? Random comic relief?

Why not? the series it's full of such moments.

And if Huell was really this great of a magician, they probably should've forshadowed it a bit, in the past.
It feels pulled out of the ass, this way.

 

[aj2good4you2]

In the screenshot i posted and even in motion it really does look like the outline of a pack of cigarettes, so while at first i didnt think huell could pull something like that off it seems really odd after i watched that clip 10+ times.

wish i was good at making gifs so i could show you guys cause at half speed the whole thing really makes me lean towards saul being involved.

 

[RubxQub]

The kid smoking the cigarette makes no sense. It was inside a little vial..and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't going to melt inside the cigarette and be consumed that way.

The kid would have had to find the pack, take specifically that one cigarette (maybe not too far fetched since it would have been the only one that looked different), tried to smoke it, found out it had some little vial of something inside...opened that vial and snorted or ate or shot or whatever the stuff inside.

That scenario seems crazier to me than the cigarette pack switching incident as Saul's.

 

[brianjones]

The kid smoking the cigarette makes no sense. It was inside a little vial..and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't going to melt inside the cigarette and be consumed that way.

The kid would have had to find the pack, take specifically that one cigarette (maybe not too far fetched since it would have been the only one that looked different), tried to smoke it, found out it had some little vial of something inside...opened that vial and snorted or ate or shot or whatever the stuff inside.

That scenario seems crazier to me than the cigarette pack switching incident as Saul's.

how does the kid ingest ricin in the saul scenario then?

they break into his house and slip it into his fruit loops when he's not looking?

oh man this is dumb

 

[RubxQub]

how does the kid ingest ricin in the saul scenario then?

they break into his house and slip it into his fruit loops when he's not looking?

oh man this is dumb

It doesn't matter how...what's important is that we don't see Walt doing anything all day that day so we can assume he figured out a way to get it done.

Think of it this way...where does the series go if Jesse and Walt team up and kill Gus in the season finale? There's no obvious antagonist. No obvious problem to solve. They both seem to be free and clear.

If Walt is behind that kid's murder and Jesse finds out about it? Season 5 of Breaking Bad.

 

[UrbanRats]

The kid smoking the cigarette makes no sense. It was inside a little vial..and I'm pretty sure that it wasn't going to melt inside the cigarette and be consumed that way.

The kid would have had to find the pack, take specifically that one cigarette (maybe not too far fetched since it would have been the only one that looked different), tried to smoke it, found out it had some little vial of something inside...opened that vial and snorted or ate or shot or whatever the stuff inside.

That scenario seems crazier to me than the cigarette pack switching incident as Saul's.

Yes, but to me the more plausible one so far is Gus did it.

Now it's probably not gonna be this way, cause their cookin the twist, and there's that Esposito interview, and there's the screencap of Huell doing the magic, but it's still the one with fewer plotholes to me.

Seriously, as Brianjones said: how the fuck did they poison the kid?

 

[Farooq]

how does the kid ingest ricin in the saul scenario then?

they break into his house and slip it into his fruit loops when he's not looking?

oh man this is dumb

Saul delivers cheques to Andrea every week. That provides them with entry into the home right there.

But after that, the logistics do get crazy. Which is why I haven't totally subscribed to Walt poisoning the kid. The logistics of the plan.

 

[RubxQub]

Seriously, as Brianjones said: how the fuck did they poison the kid?

Why does it seem unfathomable to you guys that some people that are just normal people are vulnerable to being tracked and poisoned by people with resources, skills and intent?

Saul delivers cheques to Andrea every week. That provides them with entry into the home right there.

Wow, completely forgot about that. Seals the deal for me.

 

[bud]

best shot i could get

this was after the frisk and he took his hand back out almost immediately, in slow motion it looks pretty suspect but it might be there to throw us off.

i brightened it up a little. hmm....

when i play around with the saturation settings, it definitely looks blue which is the color of jesse's pack.

 

[midonnay]

Saul delivers cheques to Andrea every week. That provides them with entry into the home right there.

But after that, the logistics do get crazy. Which is why I haven't totally subscribed to Walt poisoning the kid. The logistics of the plan.

nice!!!

totally forgot about that awkward meeting

 

[blame space]

does Saul still do that, though? i thought he only did it so he could check up on them for Jesse.

god, i wish we would've found out if it's actually Ricin poisoning or not. I hope this is all a red herring at this point.

 

[cbox]

Why would walt poison brock...?

 

[blame space]

Why would walt poison brock...?

seemingly to get Jesse back on his side to take down Gus..

i don't like it. but now i think it's true. i hate everything.

 

[RubxQub]

does Saul still do that, though? i thought he only did it so he could check up on them for Jesse.

Even if he doesn't, it means that Saul knows where Andrea lives. Whether or not Walt or someone working for Saul or Saul himself poisons the kid doesn't matter at that point. What matters is they have the address. Saul doing it himself seems to make more sense to me than most things since he had regular access.

When Jesse was in Saul's office, Saul for some reason felt like soft-selling Jesse the idea that Walt was in extreme danger...then later back-pedals when Jesse seems concerned. Why would he feel the need to back-pedal or act like it's no big deal or maybe Walt was embellishing the truth? He was saying that shit to get Jesse to sympathize with Walt.

Saul needed to see Jesse to give him his money back? More like Saul needed to see him to get the cigs off him and explain the situation with Walt to him.

Walt used Saul. Walt is responsible for the kid's death directly or indirectly. Gus is toast this next episode.

BOOK IT!

 

[impirius]

mp3 please

Ehh, I was wrong about it being significant anyway. Gus is just smart enough to figure out what's going on.

 

[NaughtyCalibur]

honestly the only thing that doesn't sound totally dumb is the kid getting a hold of [the ricin cigarette] somehow himself

"I had the cigarette with the ricin in my pack this morning. The last time I saw Brock was last night, and this morning I switched the cigarette into a new pack." -- Jesse

Unless Brock took the vial out of the cig, ingested it, and then reassembled the cigarette and put it back in the pack for some reason? And that theory doesn't sound totally dumb?

 

[Farooq]

does Saul still do that, though? i thought he only did it so he could check up on them for Jesse.

god, i wish we would've found out if it's actually Ricin poisoning or not. I hope this is all a red herring at this point.

Although Jesse resumed his relationship there is no indication that Saul stopped delivering cheques.

I would think Jesse would rather have Saul deliver the cheques seeing how Saul most likely launders the money given to Andrea.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

watching the episode, at no point did I suspect Walt. But thinking back on it, the 'Walt is the poisoner' theory is really, really solid.

I can't wait to see what they do with Mike in the finale.

 

[cbox]

Great guys, now my mind is full of fuck.

That scene with gus and jessie in the chapel made me believe Gus was behind the poisoning. He gave jesse that "yeah that's fucking right" look when Jessie told him about the poison.

 

[bud]

IT WAS TED.

ted came back to fuck brock.

 

[RubxQub]

watching the episode, at no point did I suspect Walt. But thinking back on it, the 'Walt is the poisoner' theory is really, really solid.

Ditto. Something I was thinking about on the train ride into work this morning. Talking it out with everyone just now only makes me believe it more.

 

[Raxus]

i dunno, he was pretty much waiting to die when jesse came.

i don't want Walt's speech to be a lie.

It isn't. As the opening scene this week suggests Walt is into fatalistic honesty. As he said to Hank last episode, "I’m done explaining myself.".

 

[Lonestar]

If "we're" on a "Walt Poisoned Brock" trip, why would Walt (or Saul for Walt) need to come up with a way to steal the Vial back from Jesse? Walt fricken made the stuff to begin with. He'd just make more if he was going to plan on killing someone himself.