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Breaking Bad - Season 4 - Sundays on AMC
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blahblah...blah
Member
I hate to say it, but the poisoning situation is not as clear cut as we all think. It really should be Gus, there should be no question that it was Gus, but Giancarlo Esposito himself says that he doesn't know the details of what happened to Brock until Jesse lets him know, and then the poisoning, coming to the hospital, etc. sets off his Spidey senses and makes him realise that "Walter White is behind this"
This is much more plausible than 'Mike was going to shoot Jesse', and I think they've left it as a distinct possibility that Walt was somehow involved (there's a reason they had the pat-down in Saul's AND the lab scene with Tyrus).
Could the final shot of the season not be Hank viewing Walt on CCTV but, rather, the empty vial in Walt's condo?
This is much more plausible than 'Mike was going to shoot Jesse', and I think they've left it as a distinct possibility that Walt was somehow involved (there's a reason they had the pat-down in Saul's AND the lab scene with Tyrus).
Could the final shot of the season not be Hank viewing Walt on CCTV but, rather, the empty vial in Walt's condo?
Phantast2k
Member
The poisoning thing is not stupid per se, but the way it was presented felt like it was contrived/out of line with the rest of the story. But whatever, still good enough.
Hmm, Jesse's immediate conclusion of Walt & Saul Goodman being behind this seems like the most plausible given the undertones so far and I'd also like it to go down this way.
Hmm, Jesse's immediate conclusion of Walt & Saul Goodman being behind this seems like the most plausible given the undertones so far and I'd also like it to go down this way.
Funky Papa
FUNK-Y-PPA-4
Different colour, car and segment. There are two american sedans there plus what it looks like a new Toyota Yaris, which was used by the black "watcher" (I can't remember his name now). He had it parked in Jesse's street when he tased Walt.GavinGT said:
That does really look like his Aztec, I guess. However, he specifically says to Jesse, "They TOOK me into the desert." Plus, they put a bag over his head, which is sort of pointless if he's driving himself there.
Edit: Damn, I'm good.
BamYouHaveAids said:
As far as we know, Walt's never seen the kid before. Walt wouldn't have the knowledge or the time to track him down and administer the poison secretly, nor would it be the logical thing for him to devote his efforts to when he's convinced that Gus is about to kill him and his family. Plus, I think that if Saul were only luring Jesse to his office under false pretenses, he would've come up with a reason other than, "I wanted to be a nice guy and give you all your money back".
In case anyone was trying to find the song playing when Walt was spinning his gun on the table.
Apollo Sunshine - We Are Born When We Die
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A-0jltlGe0
The music supervision on Breaking Bad has been nothing but excellent for the 4 seasons it has been on the air.
Apollo Sunshine - We Are Born When We Die
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_A-0jltlGe0
The music supervision on Breaking Bad has been nothing but excellent for the 4 seasons it has been on the air.
NaughtyCalibur
Member
Mr. Saturn said:
Bugging the house isn't far fetched, but this supposed master plan concocted months ago and enacted now by Gus to manipulate Jesse into killing Mr. White is slightly bananas to me, yes. For one thing it's a plan that required Walt and Jesse create the ricin cig in the first place, and then have faith that they will continue to hold onto the cig until the opportunity for it to be used against them presented itself, whether that be weeks or months. Put simply: it's a plan that Gus, a control freak, has very little control over.
There are far too many variables to consider, and no matter what happens Gus' business takes a big hit because Jesse losing Broc will devastate him, and blowing Mr. White's brains out on top of that will traumatize him immensely if there's even a shred of doubt as to whether Mr. White did it or not. What Gus is left with is a cook who's so emotionally fucked up that they can't/won't cook, so he'd be in no better position had he offed Walt in the desert.
A far more eloquent plan, as stupid as this admittedly sounds, would have been to lace the hood they placed over Walter's head with ricin and let him breath that shit in for the ride without him realizing it (no scent/taste, IIRC). A few days later Walter would have been lying in a hospital somewhere, dying from what looks like a bad lung cold (perfect!) I'd imagine, and Jesse -- not knowing the full details of Walt's state of health -- wouldn't likely jump to the conclusion that Gus had Walt taken out but rather he succumbed to his illness combined with his recently heightened stress. Jesse would of course be taken aback by Mr. White's death, but he'd get over it and likely get back to work in order to provide for his [perfectly healthy, happy] family.
There are probably a million other ways Gus could get rid of Walt without directly affecting Jesse or jeopardizing his trust in him, which is very important if he intends to smoothly continue his business.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i woke up thinking walt is responsible for this.
what is wrong with me??
what is wrong with me??
UnluckyKate
Member
God that packing scene when Skylar and walt are near the car with the baby in the front plan... My god that tension, that cinematography. And not a single line a dialogue...
vatstep
This poster pulses with an appeal so broad the typical restraints of our societies fall by the wayside.
Christ, there are so many theories. The writers left it wide open, so brilliantly. Everyone is paranoid now; Walt, Jesse, Saul, even Gus in a sense. I'm gonna try not to think about it much, as my head might explode.
I don't know how the hell Walt/Jesse are gonna get to Gus now (if Jesse is even on Walt's side much longer), but I kind of think that Mike may be back for the finale and play some part in it all. Has it been long enough in the show's timeline for that to be possible?
I don't know how the hell Walt/Jesse are gonna get to Gus now (if Jesse is even on Walt's side much longer), but I kind of think that Mike may be back for the finale and play some part in it all. Has it been long enough in the show's timeline for that to be possible?
dark_inferno
Member
Farooq said:
Great scene with great music.
Edit: Nevermind. 13 Episodes again.
AwesomeSauce
MagsMoonshine
God damn another tense ass episode.
Was a bit iffy with the whole Brock being poisoned bit, usually the writers are sharper than that; the arguments here about Walt are very compelling which has me still up in the air about how I feel about it.
Also a lot of great camera work on this episode. Nice compositions, and framing of shots; not like its unexpected with this quality show.
Can't wait for next week !!
Was a bit iffy with the whole Brock being poisoned bit, usually the writers are sharper than that; the arguments here about Walt are very compelling which has me still up in the air about how I feel about it.
Also a lot of great camera work on this episode. Nice compositions, and framing of shots; not like its unexpected with this quality show.
Can't wait for next week !!
Al-ibn Kermit
Junior Member
I think that neither Gus or Walt poisoned the kid as it wouldn't fit either of them. It doesn't fit Walt's character to kill a kid and it would cause Jesse to be too panicked and unpredictable to be useful for Gus. It would be pretty smart writing if after all the tension and planning that went on this season, Gus or Walt end up dead due to thinking the other one was behind the poisoning.
Most likely scenario is that Jesse got his days mixed up and the kid took the ricin cigarette one or two days ago as it takes a couple days to act.
Most likely scenario is that Jesse got his days mixed up and the kid took the ricin cigarette one or two days ago as it takes a couple days to act.
Fantastic episode and a good breather before the finale (and after that string of A+ eps). I'm tepidly in the "Brock wasn't poisoned, or someone else did it" camp. Also didn't really buy Jesse going to Walt accusing him of doing it, seemed like more of a convenient way to setup that great encounter at Walt's house more than anything.
As someone mentioned, the timing is off. If it takes a day or longer to start feeling effects from the ricin then Brock had to have taken it the day before, when he was at Jesse's house. So the most reasonable conclusion is that he lifted the cigarette from Jesse because smoking is cool.
And now Walt and Jesse really do think that Gus poisoned the kid. And in the parking garage Gus came to the realization that Walt poisoned the kid and that's why he didn't get in the car.
But I would not be surprised if it was Walt. The writers are turning him into a villain and this would be the perfect way to put him over the edge. Can't wait for next week!
And now Walt and Jesse really do think that Gus poisoned the kid. And in the parking garage Gus came to the realization that Walt poisoned the kid and that's why he didn't get in the car.
But I would not be surprised if it was Walt. The writers are turning him into a villain and this would be the perfect way to put him over the edge. Can't wait for next week!
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
God, the silent black guy is such a shit character. Not myserious, not intimidating, just shit.
If they can plausibly explain how either Gus or Walter poisoned Brock then I'll be okay with the story. At the moment I fear they won't be able to. If it's just that he snuck the cigarette and poisoned himself then eh... pretty shitty direction. I know it's creating even more tension between the characters but there are other ways of doing that.
Gus having his spider senses tingling at the end was pretty damn awesome.
If they can plausibly explain how either Gus or Walter poisoned Brock then I'll be okay with the story. At the moment I fear they won't be able to. If it's just that he snuck the cigarette and poisoned himself then eh... pretty shitty direction. I know it's creating even more tension between the characters but there are other ways of doing that.
Gus having his spider senses tingling at the end was pretty damn awesome.
BLagiver said:
obviously it's the stress. she was in charge of laundering hundreds of thousands of dollars regularly, had to deal with her former boss possibly bringing down the whole thing (she still doesn't know he's dead??), has to raise two kids by herself, etc. I don't know how Walt has held up so well. Although he has been overcome by some crazy laugh fit the last two weeks.
The plant looks exactly the same, can't be a coincidence.Bowdz said:Holy shit. H.O.L.Y. S.H.I.T. Great find.
This is probably looking into things WAY, WAY, WAY too much on my part, but the plant honestly looks a lot like White Monkshood.
Again, probably looking into WAY too much, but I wouldn't put murdering a child to protect himself and his family from death past Heisenberg.
Oh God, Walt, what did you do?
The Walt did it theory wasn't even plausible to me, until i saw this.
This shot can't be throwaway, it lingers too much on it.
On the other hand, can Walt's character go this down in the hole? Uhm.. it's hard to believe.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Thoraxes said:
He was really good at lying to Mike at the end of last season.
Shit.
Shit.
I kinda think Walt did it, now.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
Yes, it's hard to believe a murdering drug kingpin would poison someone to save himself.UrbanRats said:
Walt has constantly kept getting more and more evil as the show progresses. He is literally capable of doing anything now.
Foliorum Viridum said:Yes, it's hard to believe a murdering drug kingpin would poison someone to save himself.
Walt has constantly kept getting more and more evil as the show progresses. He is literally capable of doing anything now.
Indeed. Keep in mind he was originally written as injecting Jane with another hit of heroin when she was unconscious, killing her. That was then toned down to him flipping her on her back so she would choke on her own vomit, then toned down again to him simply not doing anything.
Beelzeboss
Member
I still can't get behind Walt poisoning the kid. It would be really hard for him to do so with the time he had and wasn't he ready to get killed by Gus at the beginning of the episode?
It looked like he was ready to go down shooting before Jesse showed up
It looked like he was ready to go down shooting before Jesse showed up
brianjones
Member
vatstep said:
not any good ones
walt poisoning the kid doesnt make any logical sense to me, whether people think he's capable of it or not
RubxQub
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Pencil me in as Walt being the one behind the poisoning. His admission that Gus is always 10 steps ahead of him seemed like he was embellishing to play at Jesse's emotions.
Walt doesn't care if he dies at this point. If Jesse did shoot him, his family is safe. If Jesse doesn't shoot him, he has his trust and they will work together to get Gus.
He's just crazy at this point, so poisoning a kid to swing Jesse back to his side is perfect. I honestly think that that is how dark Walt has gone. Season will end with Gus dead, and revealing that Walt was responsible for everything this episode.
Walt doesn't care if he dies at this point. If Jesse did shoot him, his family is safe. If Jesse doesn't shoot him, he has his trust and they will work together to get Gus.
He's just crazy at this point, so poisoning a kid to swing Jesse back to his side is perfect. I honestly think that that is how dark Walt has gone. Season will end with Gus dead, and revealing that Walt was responsible for everything this episode.
Foliorum Viridum
Banned
I agree.brianjones said:
That's why I'm afraid of where they'll go with it. Seems like an odd direction.
I don't know if I need to spoiler this as it's just conjecture but when in doubt...
Saul.
Saul has to see Jesse, in person, immediately? To give him his money back? That's very nice of him. He also helpfully informs Jesse that Walt's life and his wife and kids lives are in danger by Gus. Both Walt and Gus know how Jesse reacts to children in danger.
Saul also knows where Brock lives because of the money drop offs.
Saul knew Jesse was coming and Huel frisked him anyway.
And now Saul is heading out of town mentioning something about being careful about who's side of the bread is getting buttered meaning he doesnt know who will come out of this alive so he's bouncing.
My only issue with this theory is it's hard to square Huel being able to lift the cigarette and put the pack back in his pocket in that scene. I'd have to see it again though.
Who made Saul do it? Could be Gus, but probably Walt.
Finally, we dont know it was Ricin. We know the Ricin is gone and the kid is sick. Perhaps Walt cooked up something else?
Saul has to see Jesse, in person, immediately? To give him his money back? That's very nice of him. He also helpfully informs Jesse that Walt's life and his wife and kids lives are in danger by Gus. Both Walt and Gus know how Jesse reacts to children in danger.
Saul also knows where Brock lives because of the money drop offs.
Saul knew Jesse was coming and Huel frisked him anyway.
And now Saul is heading out of town mentioning something about being careful about who's side of the bread is getting buttered meaning he doesnt know who will come out of this alive so he's bouncing.
My only issue with this theory is it's hard to square Huel being able to lift the cigarette and put the pack back in his pocket in that scene. I'd have to see it again though.
Who made Saul do it? Could be Gus, but probably Walt.
Finally, we dont know it was Ricin. We know the Ricin is gone and the kid is sick. Perhaps Walt cooked up something else?
Grimm Fandango
Member
Well if the poisoning is going to be answered next week, I'm not gonna spend a lot of time thinking about it.
blame space
Banned
i'm trying to figure out what is supposed to look like an Aztec in that picture
brianjones said:
Well let's take a look at Walt's mindset.
I think he really believes he will die, that cliché line that get's repeated over and over, he is pushed into a corner.
It's obvious Walt feels he does not have much time left, so he will make whatever move he can right now to at least give him a chance, albeit small chance to get out of this situation. The only way to Gus is through Jesse. Getting Jesse on his side. Walt's plans have always been messy or out of the box.
I really think given Walt's situation and his mindset, that he could have arrived at this plan and think it is the logical thing to do. For him, he has to get to Jesse. He has to bring Jesse back to his side.
If he feels he is going die, he is going to do whatever he can to survive. I don't really see Walt dying with dignity. I see him hatching whatever wild or crazy scheme to somehow get out of this mess.
I am still 50/50 on who poisoned the kid. But I do think Walt could have arrived at the conclusion that this plan was logical or it was the only move he had left.
Edit: Also the gun pointing to the potted plant (props to FantasticMrFoxdie for the keen eye) is pretty big. Which is kind of tipping me into the corner that Walt did indeed poison the kid. Even though the logistics of him doing it are freaking crazy, that scene is in there for a purpose. I don't think it would be wrong to read into that scene.
blame space
Banned
i dunno, he was pretty much waiting to die when jesse came.
i don't want Walt's speech to be a lie.
i don't want Walt's speech to be a lie.
TheDarkKnight774
Member
I'm still not ruling out the kid thinking it was drugs and trying it out on his own, and sparking all the finger pointing on all sides.
brianjones
Member
Farooq said:
again this doesn't really answer the question of how walt would have obtained the ricin cig from jesse's pack
the only people who had access within the recent timeframe are tyrus, andrea and brock unless i'm missing something
Foliorum Viridum said:
team walt represent
it doesn't necessarily have to be ricin. Saul's henchmen could have broken into the house and contaminated the boy some other way.
Then its a matter of the big black dude swapping jesse's cigarettes with a decoy pack through sleight of hand. Jesse would obviously assume that the boy had been poisoned with ricin.
Walt tried to bum a smoke and saw the ricin concealment in previous episodes so he knows Jesse's brand.
brianjones
Member
Dash27 said:
what do you mean??
jesse stopped off at saul's for like 2 minutes.. are you suggesting they lifted the cigarette pack from his pocket, took the ricin cig, and replaced it in this time
i feel like im discussing lost here .. lol
Honestly having just watched the latest episode just then, I'm starting to feel a bit iffy about this "poison" thing, there's a lot of discussion on the motivation of why either "gus" or "walt" would do it, but there hasn't been much evidence on how they pulled it off, and while walt does have a interesting motivation for poisoning brook i find it hard to understand how he would do it in the first place.:/
Grinchy
Banned
I just find it hard to believe that at a time like this, Gus does not have any of his people watching Jesse or Walt. How could it come as a surprise that Jesse visited Walt? How could Walt have left his house to poison Brock without being watched along the way?
It just seems really odd that Jesse/Walt are only being watched when it's convenient to the story and they are left alone when they need to plan things.
It just seems really odd that Jesse/Walt are only being watched when it's convenient to the story and they are left alone when they need to plan things.
Grimm Fandango
Member
Lafiel said:
Yeah it bothered me too how it was shown. Motivations and method to do so seem all over the place.
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