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[Suairyu]

Bruce Lee against the best boxer in the world whos a foot taller and 100 pounds heavier and still Bruce Lee (who fought some no name street thugs apparently) would win using a fighting technique which MMA has proven to be nothing more than artsy fartsy.

Erm, Bruce Lee's students went on to train USA special forces. His student's students currently train special forces. Lee was very anti-tradition when it came to martial arts. The UFC has credited Lee as 'the father of MMA' as he was the first to popularise the idea of using what works and rejecting what does not.

There was nothing 'artsy fartsy' about him.

In the real world, a 160lbs guy just don't people weighing 250lbs.
I think some of you guys have watched too many movies and are kinda overestimating the real world utility of martial arts.

In the real world, the skinny crackhead caves the head in of the bodybuilder because the crackhead is crazy.

My father, who was at the time a member of the Royal Navy, went for drinks for a few times with an SAS guy. Tall as fuck, built like a brick shithouse, with eyes my father could only describe as "completely dead" - the guy had obviously killed a lot of people.

Now, just because a guy is special forces doesn't make them the best fighter in the world, but they certainly have to be competent at hand-to-hand, and brutal, 'I'm going to snap your neck' hand-to-hand at that.

One day they walk into a bar and a medium-height, skinny guy just rushes them (just because) and takes out the SAS guy in seconds. It takes my father and two other guys to beat this guy down.

In real-life fights you cannot think of it in terms of stats. Height. Reach. Weight. Bench-strength. These help you in a fight, they do not guarantee shit. Wlad's size and height makes him a potentially fiercesome opponent. It all but guarantees his victory in a sporting environment. The same does not apply anywhere else.

 

[Lebron]

Lee can go Super Saiyan, which is an unfair advantage if you ask me.

 

[Devolution]

I know about sanda, but how much time does a team dedicated to forms exhibition actually bother with sparring which is kickboxing + takedowns?

You're arguing something I'm not. I never mentioned how useful or practical learning forms is to fighting. I'm just disagreeing with the assertions that these people are merely "actors" and that what Wushu isn't a sport or athletic. To call it "dancing" is just ignorant.

 

[dem]

There is no records of a Gary Elms even existing.

Search his name, and the only thing that will come up is Bruce Lee fansites.

Ding Ding Ding

 

[Diprosalic]

To call it "dancing" is just ignorant.

dancing is very athletic.

 

[Devolution]

dancing is very athletic.

Depends on the dancing. But the context in which he used it was demeaning.

 

[Dali]

I don't care how useful is it in fighting, to call it simply "acting" or "performing" is greatly diminishing the amount of athletic ability in involved.

I wasn't one of the ones that lumped them together with other regular actors. I'm trying to get you to see that the same way you are arguing they shouldn't be grouped with every normal actor, the two themselves shouldn't be compared either.

As to calling it a performance, how would you describe a ballerina's performance amazing feats of great athletic ability that would only be diminished by labeling it a "performance"?

They're performing. It's a performance.

 

[Devolution]

I wasn't one of the ones that lumped them together with other regular actors. I'm trying to get you to see that the same way you are arguing they shouldn't be grouped with every normal actor, the two themselves shouldn't be compared either.

As to calling it a performance, how would you describe a ballerina's performance amazing feats of great athletic ability that would only be diminished by labeling it a "performance"?

They're performing. It's a performance.

What two? Li and Lee? Why?

 

[Dali]

What two? Li and Lee? Why?

Lee: Proven fighter
Li: Knows katas

 

[vordhosbn]

Wait, people think Martial Arts actually works?

 

[Suairyu]

Wait, people think Martial Arts actually works?

Wladimir Klitschko would certainly argue they do.

 

[Shadybiz]

This is a tough one. As someone who has practiced various fighting systems (boxing included), it's a bit of a toss-up. Lee's foundation was in Wing-Chun, a linear art. He also trained in "Western" boxing, so from experience, would have been able to anticipate at least a fair portion of Klitschko's moves (I am not sure of Klitschko's level of knowledge of any systems besides boxing). Boxing is mainly a non-linear style, and generally speaking, the shortest distance between two points is a straight line. So I think that Bruce would have been able to beat him to the punch all the time.

On the other hand, Klitschko's reach is ridiculous (possibly making the whole straight line/circular point irrelevant), and as stated before, he would clearly be way more powerful than Lee. So, I think that if he did manage to get Lee into a corner and land a hit or two, Lee wouldn't last too long.

Edit:

Wladimir Klitschko would certainly argue they do.

Indeed. Boxing is just as much a martial art as any other; it's just not usually lumped into that category.

 

[tass0]

Wait, people think Martial Arts actually works?

Boxing = martial art, fyi.

 

[thefro]

Bruce would sub Klitschko. He knew judo/jujitsu submissions.

 

[vordhosbn]

Boxing = martial art, fyi.

I meant more like Tai Chi. Not boxing.

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

I'll take the guy who was 5 feet taller and 100 lbs heavier

I recall reading an account of when Bruce Lee squared off against some highly ranked middleweight boxer back in his day. They said that this guy went to jab at Bruce Lee, but Lee had hit him twice and moved out of range before the guy's punch even reached him. Bruce Lee had scary hand/reaction speed.

I recall reading that Wilt Chamberlain could make change on the top of the backboard, bench press 5 million lbs, and shit gold.

I'm a huge Bruce Lee fan, but let's not be retarded and buy into the myth.

 

[Staccat0]

What if Bruce Lee had time to learn all of the more modern forms of mixed martial arts and excel in them?

So basically Bruce Lee with prep time?

 

[Suairyu]

I meant more like Tai Chi. Not boxing.

So you mean traditional, set-in-stone-rules martial arts? The very kind Bruce Lee rejected before developing and popularising the systems that (arguably) helped shape MMA into what it is today? If you "don't mean boxing" when making that statement, then you don't mean how Bruce Lee fought, either.

 

[EviLore]

These retarded threads happen on a daily basis all over the internet, and have since its inception, because people can't stop putting Bruce Lee on a ridiculous pedestal.

I see we have the special forces insta-neck-snapping fandom going on too. In both cases, you've watched too many movies.

 

[Staccat0]

So you mean traditional, set-in-stone-rules martial arts? The very kind Bruce Lee rejected before developing and popularising the systems that (arguably) helped shape MMA into what it is today? If you "don't mean boxing" when making that statement, then you don't mean how Bruce Lee fought, either.

Yeah, I think a lot of people are forgetting exactly WHAT Lee's style WAS in it's time. If he was alive now, he'd be treated as one of the fathers of MMA.

I don't know or care who would win, because I don't know who this other dude is, but I think its a bit reductive to say Bruce Lee was just an actor.

 

[Freshmaker]

You're arguing something I'm not. I never mentioned how useful or practical learning forms is to fighting. I'm just disagreeing with the assertions that these people are merely "actors" and that what Wushu isn't a sport or athletic. To call it "dancing" is just ignorant.

Poeple were saying that Li is an actor and not really a fighter. The fact he does Wushu forms doesn't contradict this.

Jackie Chan did some brutal stuff in the Beijing Opera, he still doesn't call himself a fighter.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Let's let their exes/widows fight it out.

vs.

 

[Suairyu]

I see we have the special forces insta-neck-snapping fandom going on too. In both cases, you've watched too many movies.

Actually, I was careful my post about the special forces to not paint them as some super-capable fighter, just someone who knew how to handle themselves in a dire situation. If I gave the impression I think they're fighting gods then I'm sorry. My point was that just because someone has a bunch of weight and height on a guy doesn't make the fight a foregone conclusion.

 

[Angry Fork]

smh @ people doubting Lee just because he was skinny.

 

[DKehoe]

smh @ people doubting Lee just because he was skinny.

The issue to me isn't just size. I think someone like BJ Penn (a similar size to Bruce Lee) would have a very good chance of beating Klitchko in a fight due to his proven ability, particularly his phenomenal ground skills. There isn't any solid evidence of what Bruce Lee was like as an actual fighter so there is no reason to expect he would win.

 

[Angry Fork]

I agree we don't know what Lee was capable of but I'm just going under the assumption that everyone does and saying he was one of the best martial artists etc bla bla. I wish he did fight for real though (on camera) so we could have some kind of evidence to do these comparisons. I've watched lots of Lee though the training vids, interviews etc. and I do believe he had the skill and it wasn't just flashy shit for movies, but to what extent remains a mystery.

 

[demon]

There isn't any solid evidence of what Bruce Lee was like as an actual fighter

Oh christfuck...

-edit-
nevermind, misread that as "that bruce lee was an actual fighter". Still, there are numerous accounts from real fighters and credible sources who had firsthand experience with Bruce Lee. It's true, there is very little video of Lee outside of his films, but I'll take their word for it.

 

[Corky]

Bruce Lee vs Wladimir Klitschko?
Sylvester Stallone vs Overeem?
Van Damne vs....

 

[Freshmaker]

smh @ people doubting Lee just because he was skinny.

Saying he'd get demolished because he'd be at a severe physical disadvantage in the proposed fight is common sense. Not doubt.

 

[benzy]

WHAT

THE

FUCK!!!!

<3 Bruce. Fuck the haters.

one-inch punch

 

[Kayo-kun]

The Lee vs. x speculations are as irrelevant as Goku vs Superman etc.

 

[AAK]

Too many unknown factors.... But size definitely matters.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

one-inch punch

that punch is always amazing, but that kick...so much anger...

 

[EviLore]

Actually, I was careful my post about the special forces to not paint them as some super-capable fighter, just someone who knew how to handle themselves in a dire situation. If I gave the impression I think they're fighting gods then I'm sorry. My point was that just because someone has a bunch of weight and height on a guy doesn't make the fight a foregone conclusion.

Effective technique and physical attributes decide outcomes, or if neither person is trained, then aggressiveness and willingness to harm also become huge. Foregone conclusions start to happen when there is a large disparity in technique or athleticism.


Put a random adult male in a locked room with:

Other random adult male: more athletic/aggressive person will win.

BJJ white belt: Physical attributes can often override technique here, and the technique is not at a very good level yet against resisting opponents. White belt is not yet comfortable fighting, either. Moderate advantage for white belt.

BJJ blue: blue belt has the distinct advantage unless he's very far behind in athleticism; anything could still happen but for the blue belt to lose would be a significant upset.

BJJ purple: the BJJ practitioner will be in complete control of every moment.

BJJ brown/black: Omae wa mo shindeiru.


But keep in mind with the above, that you're training for years with very effective techniques against fully resisting opponents for each rank in BJJ. Special forces guys, as a baseline (since some SF guys will also train in combat sports activities on the side), are going to have like a few weeks of unarmed combat training, coupled with great athleticism, comfort in a combat scenario, and willingness to harm.

That boils down to Joe Sixpack really not wanting to screw with them, but there's nothing mystical going on there either.

 

[Eyeh4wk]

Wait, people think Martial Arts actually works?

derp

 

[shuri]

Bruce Lee was really into improving himself, I'm sure he would had adapted his personal style over the years..

 

[OpinionatedCyborg]

Bruce Lee vs Wladimir Klitschko?
Sylvester Stallone vs Overeem?
Van Damne vs....

Steven Seagal vs stuntman (stunt man chokes Seagal, a 5th degree blackbelt in aikido, out).

If Bruce was an MMA fighter with excellent BJJ and Klitschko went into the fight completely unprepared to deal with grappling and the ground game, then yeah... Bruce might win. We saw Royce Gracie defeat boxers, olympic-level wrestlers (Dan Severn), and other larger men in the early days of UFC. That said, Lee's JKD was still primarily a striking martial art and Lee was not a professional fighter... so the edge is clearly in the larger and more experienced man's favour.

 

[Loki]

What unbelievable kicking speed demonstrated by Bruce Lee in this video. Wait for the last couple of kicks - WOW:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVd0wLrZDJs

 

[nelsonroyale]

Musashi miyamoto

If it was in a ring, the wladimir would most likely win...in the street, with freedom of movement, Bruce lee should take him...JKD was designed for real world application, boxing gives good punching power but is not designed to guard against underhanded tactics....bruce lee could just kick him in the balls.

Goddamn, the video stutters on that kick in the last video...but if he could kick that fast, his kicks are faster than wladimir's punches...and more powerful most likely

 

[East Lake]

I'd rather see a battle of goliaths, like Wladimir against Alexander Karelin.

 

[subversus]

I believe most boxers have fast punch speeds and their legwork is usually more than adequate. Wladimr's pretty lame though, can't remember him have super fast legs int he ring.

yeah, I mean it's all about one punch/kick landing properly - be it balls/liver/neck/legs/head. If we were talking about Roy Jones (well, not the one who still steps into the ring from time to time) vs Bruce Lee then there would be a reason for discussion.

 

[Prisen]

If a 160lbs guy were to have any chance versus Klitschko it would be through grappling. This shit has already been proven empirically.

yeah, I mean it's all about one punch/kick landing properly - be it balls/liver/neck/legs/head. If we were talking about Roy Jones (well, not the one who still steps into the ring from time to time) vs Bruce Lee then there would be a reason for discussion.

El oh el.

 

[Carton]

Steven Seagal vs stuntman (stunt man chokes Seagal, a 5th degree blackbelt in aikido, out).

I dare say you know, but for those who do not: Judo Gene LeBell (the guy who worked grappling with Bruce Lee) is the stuntman in question here. He's no ordinary stuntman.

 

[Finaika]

Musashi miyamoto

Yeah. One slash of the katana and they're both dead.

 

[smurfx]

are you kidding me? bruce lee has more power in his punches than mike tyson, ali and baby jesus combined. all he would have to do is punch the air and klitschko would get knocked out. you people don't know martial arts like i do! some of you bruce lee fans are crazy.

 

[Oblivion]

So I've seen some people in this thread mention that the Bruce Lee is all flair, with the fancy dancing and acrobatics and such, and that his fighting abilities don't translate well in real life practical situations.

But wasn't the whole point of the creation of Jeet Kun Do that it's a super efficient form of kung fu that minimizes needless movements and shit?

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Less sport experience, yes. He was a renowned street fighter.

Whats his fight record? What titles has he earned? What renowned fighters has he beaten? The problem is most of his fights are anectdotal, he hasn't really been put through the ranks. He has never really been tested. I don't deny his remarkable abilities, but I question how well that translates into a fight against trained opponents, especially a Heavy-weight champion.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

Whats his fight record? What titles has he earned? What renowned fighters has he beaten? The problem is most of his fights are anectdotal, he hasn't really been put through the ranks. He has never really been tested. I don't deny his remarkable abilities, but I question how well that translates into a fight against trained opponents, especially a Heavy-weight champion.

Dude...he had Robin running scared. RUNNING SCARED SON!

Actually, the story was that in the cross over episode, Green Hornet and Batman, Robin would best Kato in a fight. And Burt Ward had somewhat foolishly insisted that he could take Bruce.

This resulted in Bruce storming around the WB lot looking for Burt Ward and challenging his green Speedo'd ass to a fight. And Burt hiding.

 

[charsace]

Wladimir would kill him. Dude was also high level kickboxer at one point. You guys need to actually look into Wlad. He loved kickboxing and would have been doing it, but the money was in boxing. Wlad is a high level martial artist in two striking disciplines. Wlad probably has shins as tough as stone. A kick from him would wreck Brue Lee.

 

[.la1n]

We will never truly know because this kind of fight would never exist even if Bruce was still alive. If they crossed paths on the street then I'd imagine it would much like most of Jean Claude Van Damme's encounters (not very well.)