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Bruce Straley agrees that Ghost of Tsushima should be GOTY instead of TLoUII.

Vick

Member


Source

The man himself, the gifted, skilled, respected and ballsy artist behind legit masterpieces, agrees with a sentiment most gamers shared this year.

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Source

For those of you not familiar with the man:

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Now before calling me a woman hater incel butthurt because his daddy got killed (people saying these things are the scum of humanity btw), my mother is actually the strongest person i know, i'm not a virgin since i was thirteen, i've been with enough girls in my life to see through the bullshit behind modern feminism from miles away, and i think Joel death and lamb PTSD are the only sequences worthy of the legacy of the first game, in terms of quality and expectations based on the talents involved.
So:
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The game have actual faults in it's narrative structure and even entire premises of game, your brain being able to detect them or not.





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Sources

Is the game great in most areas? Yes. Are ND amazing developers? Yes. Is it fair to criticize certain aspects of it? YES.

P.S. With that being said, this Thread is not made for those sad console warriors who love to shit on PS games regardless, since those pathetic bastards are the ones to blame for making this kind of discussion impossible to have without being laughed at.
 

wipeout364

Member
As someone who hasn’t played either I would agree.

Around here Ghosts of Tsushima seems to be universally praised and is a new ip.

Outside of the plot, which seems highly divisive, Last of us 2 seems to be essentially a retread of the first game with the classic and tired out naughty dog gameplay loop.
 

diffusionx

Gold Member
It really is funny how "Straley and Druckmann" crafted this masterpiece of video game storytelling, Straley leaves, and the sequel to that masterpiece is the rejected story that Druckmann wanted in the first game.

Yet I'm supposed to believe that guy is the genius.
 
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Vick

Member
Tsushima is not goty material, it's just a good game with a great artstyle.
And that's your opinion and nothing more.





Can we make a thread about me and my opinion as well ?
The day you'll be behind a game as regarded as this:



Instead of CW posts, sure.
 
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I think the angle that somehow Bruce is the white knight and Druckman is the demon, and that they butted heads etc... that narrative that some folks have been building up and trying to push for a while is nothing but patched up conjecture and a pipedream not rooted in reality. Often used as a thin veil to hate on ND by warriors of other platforms, and/or culture war participants.

Just stick to: "I don't like this because of this" - and that's fine. The other crazyness in an effort to support that view is just, well, crazy.
 
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GymWolf

Member
And that's your opinion and nothing more.






The day you'll make a game like this:



Instead of CW posts, sure.

Yes, and skill up or yongyea opinions are just the same, opinions from single individuals, i don't know what you were trying to prove posting these videos...

I love how this forum shits on videogame journalist and youtubers only when the narrative fit :lollipop_squinting:
 

Vick

Member
Druckman is the demon
He's not a demon, he just decided to give his politics priority over everything else, so also at the expense of quality (for a greater and maybe even noble goal for all i know, it's not the point and i don't care), something he was denied to do in the past.

Yes, and skill up or yongyea opinions are just the same, opinions from single individuals, i don't know what you were trying to prove posting these videos...
At least they explained in depth the reasons behind their opinion, not quite the same as "GoT is not GOTY material, it's just a good game."

I love how this forum shits on videogame journalist and youtubers only when the narrative fit :lollipop_squinting:
I post videos from these two channels all the time, they're basically the only reviewers i trust these days.
 
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Moonjt9

Member
Oh my god you TLOU hater are so fucking annoying at this point. Do you not get tired expending so much energy trying to convince people that the fun and enjoyment they had was all a BIG FAT LIE?!

Look, I am first in line in the anti SJW line. I hate identity politics and all of that bullshit. But for fucks sake can we just calm the fuck down for a minute? Not every game needs to be exactly to your tastes. The same people who say devs should be free to do what they want are the EXACT same people who are shitting on Naughty Dog and Druckmann for making the game they wanted to make. Can you not recognize the hypocrisy?! Fuck me i feel like I’m taking crazy pills here.

Gaming is a big industry. Narrative games are popular as hell. Naughty Dog took a chance and made a story and game that pushes buttons and tries to do something different than expected. Is it SO BAD that there is ONE game that does this? Does every game need to be a feel good romp? There is room for this kind of game, and just because you didn’t like the way it went doesn’t mean it’s bad. It just means you didn’t like it.

And that’s OK! But it’s also OK for people to like it. Fucking hell just recognize that people like different things for the love of god, and then we can stop having stupid fucking threads like this.
 
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Vick

Member
I can't believe grown men sit and screenshot Nolan North and Twitter likes and try to turn it into some weird anti-Part II "proof". Some of you people need a long vacation from the internet.
I was scrolling Reddit when i saw those Threads, wanted to post them here:


But then decided the opinion of TLOU co-creator maybe deserved his own Thread.
Even just to differentiate NeoGAF from this Forum:


At least for an hour.


Oh my god you TLOU hater are so fucking annoying at this point. Do you not get tired expending so much energy trying to convince people that the fun and enjoyment they had was all a BIG FAT LIE?!

Look, I am first in line in the anti SJW line. I hate identity politics and all of that bullshit. But for fucks sake can we just call the fuck down for a minute? Not every game needs to be exactly to your tastes. The same people who say devs should be free to do what they want are the EXACT same people who are shitting on Naughty Dog and Druckmann for making the game they wanted to make. Can you not recognize the hypocrisy?! Fuck me i feel like I’m taking crazy pills here.

Gaming is a big industry. Narrative games are popular as hell. Naughty Dog took a chance and made a story and game that pushes buttons and tries to do something different than expected. Is it SO BAD that there is ONE game that does this? Does every game need to be a feel good romp? There is room for this kind of game, and just because you didn’t like the way it went doesn’t mean it’s bad. It just means you didn’t like it.

And that’s OK! But it’s also OK for people to like it. Fucking hell just recognize that people like different things for the love of god, and then we can stop having stupid fucking threads like this.
If you actually took the time and watched the videos i linked, you'd have spared yourself the hassle of writing all this.

"Does every game need to be a feel good romp?"

Absolutely not, and that's why Ellie should have slit Abby's throat giving a sense to the game.
But then goodbye sequel, and the entire premise of replacing Joel and Ellie with a woman (in male body to keep Joel gameplay) and a non-binary child.
And i would have no problems with it, if it was actually done better.
 
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GymWolf

Member
He's not a demon, he just decided to give his politics priority over everything else, so also at the expense of quality (for a greater and maybe even noble goal for all i know, it's not the point and i don't care), something he was denied to do in the past.


At least they explained in depth the reasons behind their opinion, not quite the same as "GoT is not GOTY material, it's just a good game."


I post videos from these two channels all the time, they're basically the only reviewers i trust these days.
I explained all my problems with the game in the official topic and in other topics, multiple times, it's not like i wake up this morning and decided that tsushima is only a good game for no reason...and i'm not even an hater of sucker punch, infamous is my favourite sony new ip from 2 gens ago...
What can i say, sorry if i didn't wrote imo after my post, i thought it was clear that was just my opinion.


But i bet that if my post was a single line praising the game you would not ask for more explanation about my reasons...

also lol, skill up who talk shit about valhalla combat for being too easy (while playing on normal with another 2 level of difficulty) when in tsushima you have to purposely forget 80'% of your equip and moves and completely forget that stealth even exist (in a fucking ninja game) to have a little bit of challenge even in lethal mode, i can't trust that guy at all.

He has a nice way to talk and in general he has good taste, but he is all over the place when it comes to judging some stuff, at least for me.
 
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nowhat

Member
What is Straley doing now anyway? Retired? Haven't heard he went somewhere else...
He took a year-long sabbatical from ND after UC4, before retiring entirely from ND. I doubt he'll be working on AAA titles ever again, seemed quite burned out by them. Can't say I blame him.
 

Hudo

Member
I think it's time to not give a fuck about "GOTY" shit. It doesn't really mean anything, especially if it's some part in Dorito Pope's 2 hour commercial. TLOU 2 being GOTY or not doesn't make it more or less enjoyable. It's console war shit, really.
 

Vick

Member
He took a year-long sabbatical from ND after UC4, before retiring entirely from ND. I doubt he'll be working on AAA titles ever again, seemed quite burned out by them. Can't say I blame him.
Based Straley.



also lol, skill up who talk shit about valhalla combat for being easy when in tsushima you have to purposely forget 80'% of your equip and moves to have a little bit of challenge even in lethal mode, i mean cmon...
Yeah.. in the first region maybe. Good luck fighting Ronin and late enemies without the proper stance and top tier reflexes, given you have something like 3 frames in duels later on.
I think it's a very weird opinion you have, the game was way more challenging than any open world sword based combat i've ever played. Also, in Lethal mode enemies die quicker.
 
I don't think OP is wrong in not liking TLOU II and the choices Neil made. That's his opinion. I just think digging deeper than that looks to be a bit obsessive - specially if you view it throught the lenses of the culture war - once you go that deep...kinda hard to come out - you make it personal. I do hope Bruce does go back to ND. Two great minds > one. Plus Druckman is phasing out as he moves into other higher roles within the studio and others take up the mantle and more responsibility (for the actual games).
 
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GymWolf

Member
Based Straley.




Yeah.. in the first region maybe. Good luck fighting Ronin and late enemies without the proper stance and top tier reflexes, given you have something like 3 frames in duels later on.
I think it's a very weird opinion you have, the game was way more challenging than any open world sword based combat i've ever played. Also, in Lethal mode enemies die quicker.

dude i already completed the game, i know how the full game goes.

And you have:

ultra OP stealth with mongoloid enemies
OP challenge mode when you encounter groups that when upgraded make you kill 3 enemies for free
OP super moves who let you kill 2-3 enemies with a button press
OP bows
OP bombs and venom darts
OP armours and OP amulets that with the right combinations make you almost unkillable
OP killer mode when you fill the rage meter (or what the hell it was called)

you have to completely forget that this stuff exist or you can just kill most of the enemies in every encounter with that, so the game is poorly balanced at every difficulty level and it's not the player's job to balance the game by itself because the devs can't do it.

and no you don't need top tier reflex for a game like this, i'm trash at parrying in games and i had far more difficult with parrying in sekiro or any other game with a lot of parrying, tsushima is child mode compared to that game, enemies are not many and it's easy to memorize the timing of their attacks, also you have stuff that you can equip that make the parry window bigger.

The stances are really not that important when enemies die in a couple of hits, i forgot to change stance a lot of times, the system is deep as a puddle anyway, nowhere near the stance system in nioh.

I said lethal mode because it's the last one they introduced after launch, i played 95% of the ganme on hard before thay patched lethal mode in and the music doesn't change at all, enemies are more resistant but so is jin, so you don't really have an advantage compared to lethal.

The biggest challenge in tsushima is the camera being shitty most of the times, and this speak volumes imo.

and this is not a brag post, i'm a bit better than an average experienced player, no champion here at all, i still die hundreds of times in other (actually difficult) games.

And mine is not a rare opinion at all, a lot of people think that the game is a joke in term of challenge, even in this forum that is kinda of a sony centric forum you can find people in the official topic talking about lack of challenge.

Most if not all of sony open world game are cakewalks after 10-15 hours, and it's not only a sony problem, i'm playing cyberpunk now on the latest difficulty mode and it's even more easy than tsushima.

But i don't wanna fight with you dude, if you enjoy tsushima more than me more power to you 🕺

I still greatly enjoyed my time with it.
 
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Skifi28

Member
Is there some sort of universal GOTY? Multiple sites have their own, each person has their own. Why do we make such a big deal about it every year?
 
Based Straley.




Yeah.. in the first region maybe. Good luck fighting Ronin and late enemies without the proper stance and top tier reflexes, given you have something like 3 frames in duels later on.
I think it's a very weird opinion you have, the game was way more challenging than any open world sword based combat i've ever played. Also, in Lethal mode enemies die quicker.


U2 is a masterpiece. The game that really sold me on PS3 and showed what nextgen meant...

and yes, it felt pretty much like interactive Indiana Jones like Tomb Raider never felt before

they got it very right there, before whining soyboys came in to crap all over it
 

Vick

Member
you have to completely forget that this stuff exist or you can just kill most of the enemies in every encounter with that, so the game is poorly balanced at every difficulty level.
So you use all that during the fight.. and have no resources for the next. Cool.
I'm an OCD motherfucker dude, i waste NOTHING in games.

and no you don't need top tier reflex for a game like this, i'm trash at parrying in games and i had far more difficult with parrying in sekiro or any other game with a lot of parrying,
Sekiro, sure. Other parrying games? GTFO, GoT parrying is way more stricted than it needed to be. There must be datas about frame times somewhere, i'll search them.

The stances are really not that important when enemies die in a couple of hits, i forgot to change stance a lot of times, the system is deep as a puddle anyway, nowhere near the stance system in nioh.
Deep as a puddle?



The biggest challenge in tsushima is the camera being shitty most of the times, and this speak volumes imo.
That's because you're supposed to move the camera during combat you know, not playing like a grandad trying videogames.


And mine is not a rare opinion at all, a lot of people think that the game is a joke in term of challenge, even in this forum that is kinda of a sony centric forum you can find people in the official topic talking about lack of challenge.
Maybe, in general terms compared with From Software or Team Ninja. But you compared it with fucking Assassin's Creed dude, and other open worlds out there and that's ridiculous.

This is just sad by the OP
It's fine, your game is winning GOTY all over the place. Leave a disappointed man his space to complain.

GymWolf GymWolf
Okay, haven't found any data, but found this video:




Just read the comments man.. lots of people are having trouble parrying in this game and that's because the timing is super strict compared to usual games.
 
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It feels so much like people don't want Druckmann to be allowed creative freedom on his projects, like they're all for the safe corporate bullshit that sanitizes games into something less interesting. The sort of person who thinks any Uncharted has a good story (they all have good story TELLING, it's a big difference). The people who cheered for Force Awakens, Rogue One and Mandalorian but hated The Last Jedi. The people who applauded Endgame but just sat in befuddlement watching TENET. They sit in an Applebees and think they're getting the 5 star restaurant treatment, they watch Young Sheldon and CW shows, they think Paranormal Activity was peak horror and they'll settle for a console instead of PC.

Man, that felt good flexing my elitism, but honestly when it comes to letting creative minds enjoy creative freedom I like to take a stand here and there. Turning our entire entertainment industry into watered down hogwash for China is the kind of thing you guys are unwittingly advocating. Everyone seems to like Ghost of Tsushima, I bet I would, too... but what specific element is remarkable? No one ever says while advocating it be GOTY. Should a game earn GOTY just for ticking all the right boxes on a checklist? Depends on the year, I guess.
 

GymWolf

Member
So you use all that during the fight.. and have no resources for the next. Cool.
I'm an OCD motherfucker dude, i waste NOTHING in games.


Sekiro, sure. Other parrying games? GTFO, GoT parrying is way more stricted than it needed to be. These must be data about frame times somewhere, i'll search them.


Deep as a puddle?




That's because you're supposed to move the camera during combat you know, not playing like a grandad trying videogames.



Maybe, in general terms compared with From Software or Team Ninja. But you compared it with fucking Assassin's Creed dude, and other open worlds out there and that's ridicolous.


It's fine, your game is winning GOTY all over the place. Let a disappointed man his space to complain.
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Agree to disagree on most things but i have no dog in this fight dude, i liked tsushima enough to play a sequel, i'm not gonna waste more time trying to impose my opinion on you, if you think that tsushima is an hard game good for you, you actually make me feel better about my skills as a player because for me is not really more difficult than latest ac games or other open world games in general, you can't play with your brain turned off like in kingdom hearts 3 or some other brainless games, but it's still pretty easy.

Is the multyplayer worth a damn? i did 3 months of plus for the online part of demons remake so maybe i'm gonna try the coop mode ibn tsushima, feel free to add me to your friend list (maybe write something to let me know who you are), i'm Lupo46 on psn.
 
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Vick

Member
It feels so much like people don't want Druckmann to be allowed creative freedom on his projects
If the end results was actually good he could do whatever the fuck he wants.

like they're all for the safe corporate bullshit that sanitizes games into something less interesting. The sort of person who thinks any Uncharted has a good story (they all have good story TELLING, it's a big difference). The people who cheered for Force Awakens, Rogue One and Mandalorian but hated The Last Jedi. The people who applauded Endgame but just sat in befuddlement watching TENET. They sit in an Applebees and think they're getting the 5 star restaurant treatment, they watch Young Sheldon and CW shows, they think Paranormal Activity was peak horror and they'll settle for a console instead of PC.
Not sure who this was aimed at, but in my case you couldn't be any further from truth. I enjoy Uncharted for what it is and tried to be, because i can see author's intent (the only reason i'm able to watch SW prequels) and they fucking nailed those, oh boy if they fucking nailed those first Uncharted games.
I actually enjoyed TLJ more than the rest of the new movies, and it's a miracle i watched them in the first place. Only superhero flicks i like are Ang Lee's Hulk and Nolan takes on Batman, and i fucking despise the genre, don't waste my time watching cringe TV series, last i watched years ago were Dexter and Californication. And Hannibal but just because my ex loved that one and i still had to drop it because it was too much and it tried too hard. And for me only doctor Lecter is Hopkins anyway. Favourite horrors are Exorcist, Shining and Hereditary. I think i even commented in a Thread from you about best movies of the 70's. And i have a PC because i love playing old quality games at their absolute best, but i'll still never deprive myself of Sony consoles (unless they'd release all their games on PC of course), since i love quality and i think their teams are best in business.

Everyone seems to like Ghost of Tsushima, I bet I would, too... but what specific element is remarkable? No one ever says while advocating it be GOTY. Should a game earn GOTY just for ticking all the right boxes on a checklist? Depends on the year, I guess.
You would, trust me, you'd fucking LOVE Ghost of Tsushima.
Remarkable, outside of art and visuals, and the fact they actually reinvented how you fucking traverse open world games, is the feeling you get from fights:




This fucking move..




Is just incredible. Nothing special to watch maybe, but not only the button sequence is genius, you also have full control on timing of every strike.. and with the hitbox on enemies when they stagger, and the rumble.. man, it feels like SEX, no hyperbole.

GOTY 2020
Which one?
 
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